Confederate plates could be touchy issue for Perry

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Reuters

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) -- A decision on whether Texas should issue a license plate commemorating the state's Confederate heritage has landed square in the lap of Governor Rick Perry -- just as he begins his run for the presidency.

Elected officials generally manage to insulate themselves from approving specialty plates, which can be a highly controversial topic with little gain for the politician.

But when the nine-member board of the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles met earlier this year to make a decision on whether to approve plates featuring the Confederate flag, one member was absent and the vote was a 4-4 tie, DMV spokeswoman Kim Sue Lia Perkes said.

-----

With the member who was absent during the first ballot apparently keeping a lid on how he might vote, and public pressure mounting on the other members over their positions, the appointment of a replacement for the deceased member is especially weighty -- and fraught with political landmines for Perry.



Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/16/us-plates-perry-texas-idUSTRE77F70P20110816

[hlthe2b]

1. On of our DUers from Texas posted recently that TX was not hung up on the confederacy...

and that it must just be on DU that the obsession occurs... I'm sort of guessing this proves otherwise. :shrug:

[kentauros]

14. So, a 4-4 tie on a board that represents just one agency in the entire state

is also representative of the 25 million residents of Texas? Right. Sure.

I'd say the "obsession" is with various DUers, what with the various straws they grasp to "prove" such nonsense :eyes:

[hlthe2b]

19. Has nothing to do with the 4-4 tie

The fact that there is so much support for introducing a confederate plate shows that there is a continuing "obsession" among at least a number of Texans, minority or not.

[kentauros]

20. That's pretty broad.

So, if I find four people (a minority) in your state that support introducing a confederate flag-plate, then that would also constitute an obsession with the confederacy by your definition.

Really, you're going to have to find better proof than this extremely tenuous thread. No one else serious about compiling data would take your assessment seriously, nor should they. Show me the kind of numbers that constitute your definition of "so much support" that could in any way support your idea here. Because all I'm seeing so far is yet another DUer grasping at straws in order to sow a little more hate on us.

[hlthe2b]

21. No need to be defensive...

the comment to which I referred implied that the Duer had never come across a Texan who even referred to the civil war and confederacy growing up and living in Texas in a thread that discussed strong ties to confederate heritage in other states (e.g., the confederate memorials that line Richmond streets). You are really jumping to conclusions. I sowed no hate, in fact I am one who lived considerable time in the deep south and appreciate the complexities and try to help others understand those complexities in attitudes towards the civil war and heritage. Don't accuse me of things that I most certainly did not say or convey. You are very very very wrong.

[kentauros]

23. "No need to be so defensive..."

Have you been paying attention to DU ever since Perry announced and even just suggested he was running? It's been one hate-fest after another, and this is typical behavior for DU. Other than Florida, no other state receives nearly the amount of vitriol lobbed at it like Texas. Of course I'm going to be sensitive! I've had arguments with DUers here that will not tone it down in their hatred of us. As far as they are concerned, we're all republicans, no matter what.

I will apologize to you about saying you were sowing hate. I probably just got caught up in my own defensiveness there, so I'm sorry about that :)

I will say that pride for the confederacy probably depends a lot on where these "patriots" live. I see none of it in Houston, or Austin, and would guess that's likely true for DFW and San Antonio. East Texas is the most likely bastion of that kind of thinking and it really is just like depicted on "King of the Hill" ;)

[hlthe2b]

24. I understand... Coloradoans went through that a few years back

when our RW reactionaries passed anti-gay legislation/voter proposition that resulted in a national boycott. Though Denver and other Democratic strongholds voted to defeat the measure didn't matter. All of us got painted with the same brush stroke of bigotry and hate.

I spent a fair amount of time in Austin, so I can appreciate what you are saying. No state has a pass from being resident to RW assholes. California has its Darrell Issa and New York has its Representative Peter King, as but two leading examples. ;)

[AndyTiedye]

2. It's Not a "Touchy" Issue for Perry at All!

It will solidify his support with the teabagger base.

[lunasun]

10. My thought when reading this = more votes if anything in many state primes

[Cool Logic]

3. A touchy issue indeed...I'm assuming that there is an extra charge for those plates...

Thus, if he supports the issuance, he may be seen as supporting tax increases.:)

[LuvNewcastle]

4. I doubt they'll approve it.

Here in MS, Haley Barbour was confronted with the same issue and even his racist ass wouldn't support it.

[adam in oregon]

5. confederate flag

Why would you commemorate traitors to America? That is what I don't get about the confederate flag. The confederacy was at war with the United States. Do you celebrate countries at war with America? Are you bummed their aren't still slaves? Yes your ancestors fought in a war, but they lost. Do you celebrate losing? Are you upset that the United States was not destroyed 150 years ago? Would you consider putting a swastika flag on your bumper? They lost a war to America too.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

12. Why are there pow-wows?

Should native americans ignore their heritage? After all, they mostly lost a series of wars against U.S. forces, with a few notable exceptions. So, why beat the drum? Why do the dances? Why try to preserve the languages?

Celebrating our ancestors is not just limited to the "winners".

All my ancestors who came to America were losers. They were running from bad government, poverty, etc. Not a winner in the bunch.


Me, I'll have a bowl of borscht now and then. In celebration of losers.

[adam in oregon]

15. pow wows

Yes the indians mostly lost. Their situation is different than the confederacy. They were being wiped out by armies with better technology, not fighting a declared war because they didn't like the fact that in America everyone is entitled to rights. The dances are part of the religion. And the language? Come on bro, you can do better than that.
I don't have a problem celebrating ancestors. But do you celebrate them, or the fact they were trying to overthrow the government? If you love America, you should stand against the confederacy.

[LanternWaste]

18. Wars and campaigns which the wholly independent Amerindian nations...

"After all, they mostly lost a series of wars against U.S. forces.."

Wars and campaigns which the wholly independent Amerindian nations did not initiate being the relevant and critical difference I would think... :shrug:

[gristy]

6. Seems odd. One person is absent and they are voting again?

A do-over? The article charitably calls them "ballots", but something sounds really odd about this.

[Hulk]

7. Netflix.....The Confederacy ...by Ken Burns

Strange this should come up now. I've been watching the 9 part series, earlier presented on PBS called "The Confederacy....by Ken Burns"; and I HIGHly recommend this to all educated citizens. I watched his series on WWII...and I think he might have done the FDR two part series as well. I feel like I am finally getting a birdseye view of what really transpired during that period.

A few thing I have realized by watching the documentaries is that the Civil War really began the "war profiteer movement" in America. These unscrupulous heathens learned early how to make their fortunes off wars by this country...even the Civil War, which pitted secessionist against "unionists"...and eventually "secessionists and anti-slavery" against "unionists". They learned early it didn't matter what you sold to the government...rusty barrels, or contaminated food...so long as you made a fortune off the pawns in the military...it was all "good business". The same shit happens today......since the 1860's.

Texas was a secessionist back then..and they still are today. There is a strong element that believe in the "glory of the Confederacy" to this day...and nothing we can ever do will change that attitude. And there are also those that believe the negro is inferior and should be held accountable for the Civil War...and that comes across strong in the documentary.....they simply killed the black prisoners of war, rather than starve them to death and force them to live in deplorable conditions. The South has NOTHING to be proud of in how they treated POW's. They still have that mentality today.

Learn about your country. You won't like a lot of it..but you will gain an understanding of just why we are who we are today. This country is #1 at a lot of things..and many of those things you won't be too proud of at all.

[Fastcars]

8. While I agree with much of what you posted....

NEITHER side has anything to be proud of when it comes to treatment of P.O.W.s.

[1620rock]

9. Jesus, read the book "Andersonville" and see how the Union PO W's were treated...

...no POW camp in the north could compare to that atrocity.

[RamboLiberal]

13. there were pow camps in north just as horrid

It was deadly to be a POW either side.

[classysassy]

11. America's hateful past

and todays lovers of the past history of America.Hate and ignorance will destroy this country if we don't rid ourselves of the fools in our midst.

[pettypace]

16. Not a big deal

Civil War was 150 years ago. Their flag is just nostalgia.

I think most of this criticism comes from northerners. If they are so upset about it, don't have to move down here. Aint nobody dumb enough to fly that flag in the northeast.

Finally, take a look at the Mississippi state flag. See something similar about that thing.

[RamboLiberal]

17. Did you forget a sarcasm tag?

Hard to believe anyone on DU feels displaying the Confederate flag other than in a CW museum or reenactment is not a symbol of the racism and hateful past that occurs to this day. Just look at the racism towards Obama among those that Perry is courting.

I'm at work so I don't have time to post more on this.

[The Croquist]

25. There are lots of people who will be offended over this either way it goes.

First led me address the two great lies about the War:

First when Southerners tell you that the war wasn't fought over slavery they are either wrong or lying.
Second when Northerners tell you that the war was fought over slavery they are either wrong or lying.

The Yankees fought to preserve the Union. Early in the war Lincoln would have been only too happy to restore the Union split between slave and free states.

I know many Southern whites who consider themselves loyal Americans who celebrate their Confederate heritage. Many ethnic groups celebrate their ancestry. That doesn't make them less American. The US has fought Great Britain, Germany, Italy and Iraq twice. We've fought Mexico once, Spain once, North Korea and Vietnam once. We don't condemn those who are proud of their ancestry.

The proposed license plate is to honor those that fought for Texas. The funds will go to placing markers on the graves of Confederate soldiers.

The article says that there are dozens of these plate options but there are actually 177 different ones.
https://rts.texasonline.state.tx.us/NASApp/txdotrts/SpecialPlateOrderServlet

This is just one more.

Now this is important. Try to grasp this concept if you can keep your emotions under control for a moment. The nine-member board of the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles does other things then deciding what license plates to make available. These guys are kind of like the board of directors of a corporation or the trustees of a charity. Personally I think that Rick Perry and we should be more interested in appointing somebody competent then somebody who is going to vote on a stinking license plate. They had a billion dollar budget in 2010.

[RamboLiberal]

26. I believe that anscestors of Confederate veterans

Could design a plate with a different symbol than the flag! Let's say a Confederate soldier. Sorry but the Stars and Bars flag is still to many a hateful symbol of slavery. In many cases it was displayed in the civil rights era to fight against desegregation both by local and state governments & hateful individuals.

And I know about being proud of heritage being the great-granddaughter of a Union soldier from the 28th PA.

[The Croquist]

31. The symbol is the flag they took into battle.

The US military was largely segregated during WWII. Did you protest the Iwo Jima monument when it was built in DC?

The Stars and Bars will always be hateful to some people. To others it is a a source of pride and not a source of racism. It is not the Stars and Bars fault that the Clan used it.

I moved from Long Island, NY to Atlanta in 1974. I was shocked at how well the races got along down here. I was expecting it to be like Gone With the Wind. It was much more integrated then my lily white Massapequa Park. The fraternity I joined was already integrated.

[RamboLiberal]

36. There's a Native American Marine depicted on Iwo statue - Ira Hayes btw

Sad story what became of him after. And yes the segregation of our military is sad but Truman did desegregate well before public desegregation.

I'm sure in Germany there are soldiers, airmen, and sailors and their ancestors who are proud of their WWII service. Yet they don't put Nazi flags on their license plates. They fought under that flag.

And funny how the swastika & confederate flag are always used by the Klan(with a K) & Neo-Nazis.

Yes the flag is a historical symbol but to be displayed daily on a license plate IMHO is a bit in your face display. There are other symbols that could denote pride in an ancestor that could be on the plate.

[Arugula Latte]

29. "move down here" -- you're in Mexico

:shrug:

Also, it is a big deal. Glorifying the misery and terrorism of slavery is SICKENING. And make no mistake, that is exactly what the traitor-confederate flag stands for.

[No Elephants]

22. Why would plates be more damning than his secessionist yammering?

[LetTimmySmoke]

27. Perry has to make a decision?

That'll be a first. I bet he loves the Texas governorship - everyone else does all the managing while you do all the blustering and coyote shooting.

[Arugula Latte]

28. Let's celebrate Treason and Slavery!

Woohoo! :woohoo:

[The Croquist]

30. I celebrate treason every year

It's called Independence day

[Arugula Latte]

32. Clarification?

Are you saying the Confederacy should have gone on?

If so, that's absolutely appalling.

[The Croquist]

34. I celebrate the treason of 1776

I think it worked out rather well. I don't celebrate the treason of 1861.

[24601]

33. How about a Nazi plate - we beat them also in a war n/t

[jpak]

35. Burn the Stars 'n Bars

yup