Israel to invite Kerry to visit Israel

[tinnypriv]

Israel to invite Kerry to visit Israel
Ma'ariv, 16 April 2004

The Israeli embassy in Washington is to invite John Kerry to visit Israel. Kerry asked to meet Sharon during the prime minister’s US visit but his schedule was already booked.

(end)

http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=6064

[skooooo]

1. Yeah, cause they know he's next President!

[IndianaGreen]

2. BARF!!!!!!

Kerry wanted to meet Sharon when Ari came here to get Bush to bless his permanent annexation of the West Bank.

Why would any peace activist vote for a pro-Likud groveler like Kerry?

[freetobegay]

3. Bexcause if they don't they will get Bush again!

eom

[IndianaGreen]

4. Do you want a mere personnel change, or a change in policy?

Do you want a mere personnel change, or a change in policy together with personnel?

That's the issue!

[rockymountaindem]

5. These Bush* people are so arrogant

that seeing them defeated again and put in their place is reason enough for me. That being said, we all know that Kerry is one of the most liberal members of our government and I wouldn't be surprised if he changed his tune once he got in office.

I don't want America to support one side over another, just to be a real "honest broker".

[IndianaGreen]

6. The Sharon plan makes the US complicit in the Occupation

Bush endorsed the Sharon plan, and Kerry supported it as well.

The US is no longer an "honest broker"!

[tinnypriv]

8. You'll love this:

Ma'ariv, weekend edition:

On Wednesday Bush told the Israelis "I have no intention of retreating. We will do exactly what we set out to do". Bush has no choice. If he folds up now, he loses the November elections. He will increase the effort, send more soldiers, talk about war and victory, hoping to hide his disgrace at least until November.

Meanwhile, it’s too early to eulogize him. He has 180 million dollars for campaign funding and a vulnerable rival. In an experimental survey conducted last week, Bush campaigners chose four places in which John Kerry is popular and conducted an aggressive negative campaign against him. It was successful and Kerry lost altitude. At the same time, Rumsfeld is sending special units to the Pakistan-Afghanistan border hoping to exploit the melting of the snow to put his hand on the ultimate prize – Osama bin Laden. The preference is for October.

...

Understanding Bush means understanding his men. Most of them are right wing, neo-conservative, pro-Israel (for varied reasons: e.g. religion, Jewish or Christian)

...

Many of Condaleezza’s colleagues, even more right wing than Avigdor Lieberman, believe that any talks with the Palestinians are a complete waste of time. When an Israeli official informed one of them of the Yassin assassination, he angrily replied, “And what about Rantisi?” While there are quite a few of those types, there are others too, especially in the State Department. The conflict between the two extremes was resolved this week in Washington, but in points and not by knockout.

...

Just a few years ago Sharon would come to Washington incognito; meet the American minister of residence in a seedy, dark hotel lobby, without photographers, without witnesses, almost underground. He was a red flag in the administration’s face, the dangerous regional bully that the Americans preferred to forget. Now he’s the king of the town. The bully made history.

Man, you write that shit in the NY Times, you're an anti-semitic, conspiracy-theory nutbag anti-american. :)

[pezcore64]

28. lol

was the US ever an 'honest broker' ?

i tend to think not ;)

why do you think they hate us over there? our freedom? haha, yeah right. ;)

[IndianaGreen]

7. Here is what Kerry said about the Sharon/Bush deal

Both major parties are pandering to Sharon and his supporters in America. This bilateral US/Israel deal will guarantee war in the Middle East for generations to come.

The war criminal Sharon and the war criminal Bush, and now we have Kerry wanting to join this axis of evil!

Analysis
Move Could Help Bush Among Jewish Voters

By Dana Milbank and Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, April 15, 2004; Page A16

In declaring that Israel should be able to keep some of the occupied territories and block Palestinian refugees from settling in Israel, Bush followed a familiar pattern of finding common cause with Jews and increasingly pro-Israel Christian conservatives. That Bush's move was good politics was evidenced by Democratic rival John F. Kerry's quick move not to let Bush outflank him among pro-Israel voters.

"I think that could be a positive step," the Massachusetts senator said, approving of the Bush-Sharon action regarding both refugees and Israel's borders. "What's important obviously is the security of the state of Israel, and that's what the prime minister and the president, I think, are trying to address."

<snip>

Republican officials in Washington said that while they are confident Bush made his decision for sincere policy reasons, they believe the potential impact on the politics of 2004 could be substantial. "This will make it that much harder for John Kerry to win Florida," said a Republican aide on Capitol Hill who refused to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue. Associates said Bush's strategists believe that even small inroads into the Jewish vote could mean the difference between winning and losing Florida, and several Republicans believe the announcement could further inhibit Kerry's fundraising in the Jewish community.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12952-2004Apr14.html

[kysrsoze]

10. I'm not going to get too upset about this just yet.....

Again, Bush has made a wedge issue for Kerry. He's obviously being purposely vague (although the statement leaned a little too much to Israel). Kerry has to be careful with this one. If he objects now, Mr. Democratic himself, Holy Joe will start crying out and supporting BushCo.

I would like to think Mr. Kerry would have his own policy once the election is over, but I would like to see him travel through Gaza and the West Bank first (or at least watch some video documentaries).

[mobuto]

22. Watch some video documentaries?

Kerry's not going to become a Palestinian activist starting January 20. It just isn't going to happen. What I think he will do, although there isn't any proof, is that he'll do exactly what Clinton did - use the power of the presidency to work for a bilateral settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians that will allow for the creation of a Palestinian State. Sharon's recent unilateral policies are actually quite good - in the absence of any dialogue. But there needs to be an effort to resume that dialogue. Bush won't do it; but given what we know of Kerry's foreign policy team (Dennis Ross, Holbrooke, etc.) it seems likely he will.

[leftynyc]

26. While I consider myself a peace activist in that

I don't believe violence ultimately solves anything, there are many, many reasons to get Bush out of the White House. If this is your make or break issue, have at it. Mine is the Supreme Court and I'll be damned if bush gets another 4 years because I withheld my vote.

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Do you have a better, viable alternative?

At this point our only hope is that Kerry beats Bu$h, because the way the system works it's too late for anyone else, no matter how much better they would be for the country.

There are a lot of things that I don't like about Kerry but he still a whole lot better than reselecting W. First of all, he is not a member of the BCF, he has a functioning brain, and I don't think he's a greedy mother fucker who doesn't give a shit about anyone else.

Until you can come up with a better alternative, I'll keep my Kerry sticker on the back of my car.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Because Kerry knows that once he is President he will have to meet...

...with all kinds of heads of state and try to get along with them. That's a far different foreign policy than the one that Junior has been using, don't you think?

What would you prefer? More of the same from the NeoCons?

[madrchsod]

9. i will hold my nose

when i vote for Kerry. his stench isn`t as nearly as bad as bush`s putrid rot. we won`t be any safer as long as we back the Sharon government - do i ever think anything will ever change? no. i`m to old to care about me, i worry about what the hell my kids and grandkids will be facing in the future. right now the future is growing darker by the day..if Kerry turns out to be another ass licker, i hope my kids decide to leave this country,just as their ancestors did over a 250 years ago..

[soleft]

11. I think there is a difference, and it's important

Bush's support of Israel is based on his fundamentalist beliefs in biblical prophesy. When he went to Israel the first time, someone asked him what he will say to the the Israeli people, and he said, "That they're all going to hell." I think in his heart Bush does believe that Israeli's, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, and probably some sects of Christians who are not considered "Born Again" are going to hell - because they have not accepted Jesus as their personal savior.

I think Bush is alligned with people like Tom Delay - and Bill Maher has spoken a lot about this - who believe that in order for them to see their biblical prophesies fufilled the land of Israel, and perhaps this is what Bush is referring to when he says "Greater Middle East" - very frightening - must be occupied by Jews in order to bring about the second coming of Christ. They don't care about Israeli's or Palestians, they are simply the means to their salvation ends.

This is fanatacal, pathological thinking - the kind that brings about genocide, and potentially WWIII, the Armageddon that they seek.

It precludes any chance of every achieving peace, or protecting the people of Israel, or recognizing that the Palestian people (Palestian people, families, men, women, children - not terrorists) must finally be afforded fairness, compassion, and equitable treatment and protection. It negates the possibility that they will seek to ever end the cycle of violence, and that acts of aggression on either side can never create security or peace.

Because Kerry is not a fundamentalist - because he is not insane - and I think this can be said about a lot of left of center politicians like Hillary Clinton as well, who seem to have strong identifications with Israel and are hesitant to ever express criticism - I hold out hope that they will once in power to do so - they can become honest brokers and not be overly influenced by pragmatic political pressure and what I'm sure is a genuine desire to support and protect Israel.

What they say now in this political arena about the Israel/Palestinian conflict is not as important as WHY they are saying it.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Speaking of Hillary... (and pandering)

Two years ago Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman traveled to Israel on separate visits. Hillary met with Likud officials and pro-settlements Israelis. Hillary refused to meet with any Palestinians or Iraeli Arabs.

Joe Lieberman met with people representing a broad spectrum of views on the conflict, including Palestinian representatives.

Hillary pandered. Joe did not!

This is why many of us on the Jewish Left loath Hillary while we still respect Joe Lieberman, despite the fact we don't agree with many of his views.

[soleft]

13. I would still vote for a Pandering Hillary

Whose husband gave tremendous hope to the peace process - than a polictian to supports Theocrats like Bush who actively seek an escalation of violence because of their pathological addiction to fundatmentalist ideology.

[tinnypriv]

14. "tremendous hope"

Clinton set the region on this path to destruction, as you can easily discover by consulting the statements of Israeli leaders, in reaction to this summit.

A common thread - "we got all this with Clinton".

Then you can check how the Israeli press used to call Clinton "The Last Zionist" -i.e. more fanatic than even Israelis on the subject of the peace process.

[soleft]

15. From one of Israeli's chief negotiators at the Taba talks

"Beilin stressed that the Taba talks were not halted because they hit a crisis, but rather because of the Israeli election. At the time, the two sides were discussing arranging a Barak-Arafat meeting in an effort to close the gaps; they had also discussed continuing the talks the day after the election, independent of the outcome. Beilin himself continues to talk with the Palestinians about ways to solve the various issues that remain open. From his perspective, the basis for negotiations was, and remains, the proposals made by former U.S. president Bill Clinton. "

http://www.peacenow.org/nia/news/haaretzspecial0202.html#1

[IndianaGreen]

18. The myth of "Barak's Generous Offer"

This is Barak's Generous offer:

What appears to be territorial continuity is actually split up by settlement blocs, bypass roads and roadblocks.

The Palestinians have to relinquish land reserves essential for their development and absorption of refugees.

They also have to accept Israeli supervision of borders crossings together with many other restrictions.

http://www.gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.html

Sharon's plan ensures that Israel keeps all of the best land and the water sources on the West Bank in perpetuity.

[tinnypriv]

20. And the Taba proposals

Were not a great deal different than what Bush just gave Israel on a plate.

Note that what happened at Taba is precisely relevant to what came before. Why do you think Ma'ale Adumium is one of the "major population centers" Israel gets to keep? And Har Homa? And many others?

Why do you think the Israeli Labor Party welcomes this with open arms? (even Meretz/Yachad to some extent, showing the extreme kana'ut of the Israeli political spectrum).

Because Clinton gave Israel the support and money to build (or expand) these settlements. During his reign in the White House, the population of the major settlement blocs doubled, along with the related infrastructure, and all the rest - screwing a viable Palestinian state, and confining them to cantons.

Like I said, Clinton set the region onto this path of destruction.

[IndianaGreen]

16. I won't vote for Hillary

Her "performance" while in Israel, together with her hawkish pro-PPI views, makes her as palatable as Joe Biden.

[soleft]

17. If I didn't believe that the religious right is the greatest threat

to the planet, I'd be right there with you.

[drfemoe]

35. Greatest threat

I agree .. and there are THREE religious rights.

Fanaticism is the exception, I would think. And here they are running (ruining) the whole world.

[mobuto]

19. Wow - you just named two of my favorite Senators

I guess we don't see things exactly the same.

Kerry in '04.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. I've been here a long time and it really bugs the hell out of me

that you and democrats like you are the only ones that are happy with Kerry's performance of late. He only satisfies the republican leaning war hawk dems.

[soleft]

27. I'm happy with Kerry's performance if he beats Bush

And I'm the farthest thing from a republican leaning hawkish democrat.

[mobuto]

30. Republican leaning?

LMAO.

I'm as much Republican-leaning as you are a classical liberal. In case you haven't noticed, I'm one of the most partisan Democrats on DU - and that's not so easy.

[bobthedrummer]

21. Mazeltov!

Horrosho!
ABB!

[tinnypriv]

25. Yeah

Let's all raise a l'chaim and get pissed. We're gonna need it.

[The Sushi Bandit]

24. F**k Sharon - Kerry should stay away

until these is a Complete withdrawal from the occupied land and remove all settlements.

[riverwalker]

29. if Kerry goes to Israel.....

:mad: :mad: :mad: He will lose more votes than he thinks he will gain. Can we have ONE, just ONE Presidential election where our prime concern is what's best for the United States, and not whats best for Israel? Just one?

[NMDemocraticRep]

31. Why would he go?

Jews have a right to exist in peace. But not on Palestinian land.

Why would Kerry want to go? He would be giving legitimacy to the invaders and their discriminatory policies based on religion.

[MisterP]

32. think Ahnuld will take heart and go ahead with his plans?

he'll stare at the city of Gaza across the border and yell "Vat happened to ze Piramids?!"

[JohnLocke]

34. It's good to see Kerry supporting Israel (nt).

[Whoa_Nelly]

37. If kerry goes to meet with Sharon

sure do hope he has mega-protection. Would hate to think what I can imagine the * gang would do given the opportunity.