Social Security makes $8B in improper payments in 2009, including $6.5B in overpayments

[alp227]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON — The Social Security Administration made $6.5 billion in overpayments in 2009, including $4 billion under a supplemental income program for the very poor, a government investigator said Tuesday.

In all, about 10 percent of the payments made by the agency’s Supplemental Security Income program were improper, said Patrick P. O’Carroll Jr., the inspector general for Social Security. The program has strict limits on income and assets, and most of the overpayments went to people who did not report all their resources, O’Carroll said.

Error rates were much smaller for retirement, survivor and disability benefits, which make up the overwhelming majority of Social Security payments, O’Carroll told a congressional panel.

“By any standard, the scope of these problems is considerable,” said Rep. Charles Boustany, R-La., chairman of the House Ways and Means Oversight subcommittee. “Regardless of whether a payment occurs because of simple error or outright fraud, improper payments harm Social Security programs in the long term, jeopardizing benefits for those who may need them in the future. They also cost taxpayers billions of dollars each year.”

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/social-security-makes-8b-in-improper-payments-in-2009-including-65b-in-overpayments/2011/06/14/AGdcnoUH_singlePage.html

[LiberalFighter]

1. And Republicans want to reduce Social Security staff?

[Warrior Dash]

2. I don't know about reducing the staff, but it is clear that some people need to be replaced.

[No Elephants]

11. It's not that people need to be replaced. It's that information needs to be shared and coordinated

better.

If I lie to you about my resources, that does not make you a bad worker--unlesss there is some way for you to check and you failed to check. There is no reasonable way to check some things. I could own six income properties in another state that I hold under six different corporate names or six real estate trusts. My name and Social Security number would not show up. Without a super duper computerized system, how the hell would you know?

[Joe Bacon]

22. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF!

I have worked for Social Security since 1978.

We are repeatedly told to "Do More With Less".

We get a LOT of frustration from callers, lots of people love to shoot their mouths off about how much they hate the Federal government. I had several callers today who spit out the typical Fox News crap and you heard Fox in the background as they spit out a bunch of profanities at me, along with a dose of racial slurs directed at the President.

EVERY president except Old Man Bush and Bill Clinton cut our staff, mandated us to do more work, and they FAILED to provide us with the resources we need. Old Man Bush and Bill Clinton were the exceptions.

Every Congress trims our budget. Only Old Man Bush who pushed through Locality Pay and Bill Clinton who gave us more resources were in our corner. Every Other President had the ax in their hands and whacked away at us.

We are backlogged with disability claims because many states have furloughed the state agency workers who process disability claims. California included. When those claims stagnate, that causes a backlog that ripples through the system.

We do not have adequate staff to handle SSI redeterminations. In fact many redeterminations have had to be postponed. This is a vulnerability that causes a lot of SSI overpayments. Remember that each state has different rules for SSI payments, living arrangements and Medicaid determinations. SSI is a very complex program. And Social Security is facing it's own retirement wave as a high number of seasoned employees are retiring and taking their institutional memory with them. Plenty of them have had enough and they've seen the writing on the wall from the current crop of whores in the House of Representatives.

Are we going to get help from this Congress? I'm not holding my breath. And Obama freezing our pay isn't helping our morale. Like a lot of others, I'm taking a serious look at walking out the door for good next year when I'm eligible to retire. I just wonder how long I'll have a pension, since Congress has repeated screwed us out of the benefits we had back in the 70s, when I started.

[No Elephants]

28. Where in Reply 11 did you see so much as a hint that I think Social Security is overstaffed,

adequately staffed or staffed with the wrong people?

My Reply 11 defended the staff of Social Security against the implication in Reply 2 by Warrior Dash that Social Security was making overpayments because some of the staff needs to be replaced. I was contradicting that by saying it is not a staff failure.

Perhaps your argument should have been made in response to the poster who did actually imply something was wrong with Social Security staff, instead of the poster who tried to defend staff?

[joshcryer]

3. Note that they're putting "supplemental income for the very poor" under "improper payments."

That's very very sleazy. Those supplemental payments are for people, particularly widows, stay at home moms who never worked their entire life (that is, got a paycheck for working, they certainly raised children), and who get their husbands benefits, typically half what one normally gets.

[boppers]

5. "most of the overpayments went to people who did not report all their resources"

Right there in the OP.

[joshcryer]

8. I saw that but I think it's still weasely.

For example, if someone who is on poverty-level SSS because they can't work and never earned any money, and someone helps them (say I help my mom) that would be "resources" which the SSS should consider. That's bullshit.

[No Elephants]

12. Why is it bullshit? There's a finite amount of money for these programs.

My cousin was pissed off because her son, who'd had a bad car accident, could not collect welfare because my cousin answered honestly when asked if she was willing and able to provide for her son until he healed. (he was living with my cousin at the time.)

SSI is a welfare program meant to provide basic food, clothing and shelter. If you are getting some or all of those needs filled, why should you collect the same amount as someone who has no other resource at all? And what is the cut off point? How much should someone be able to receive from other sources and still qualify for the 100% of the maximum SSI amount? Why?

[eilen]

15. My BIL is disabled and gets $550/m for SSI

He is mentally ill. I don't know that a person who is not a delusional schizoid could eke out a living on that. Apparently the one in the FL governor's office thinks he should do that and be able to pay more money for his meds too. If he gets any money from his mother for food or to meet the gap on housing costs, he is cut off from the SSI.

[boppers]

20. I used to live on $120/m

It's a hard life, but possible. Adding the costs of meds, though... that could be *really* tough.

[bitchkitty]

26. Did you live on the street?

You can't live on $120 a month in America. Not unless you're living rent free with friends or relatives, or living on the street.

[No Elephants]

27. I am all for increasing the amount of SSI for everyone. I think that,

for purposes of analyzing though, you can separate out that issue from the issue of whether some people on SSI should be able to get supplemented by other income, be it family contributions or rental income or whatever, without any deductioin in theur SSI check as joshcryer's post suggest, while others have no option but to struggle along on the alloted amount. For me, that is a fairness issue. However, the alloted amount should be adequate for basic needs.

My heart goes out to people who are expected to get along on next to nothing, especially the disabled of all ages, whose needs exceed even those of healthy elderly. I am not one who feels comfortable sharing a lot of personal information online, but let's just say I know very well what that takes.

[Joe Bacon]

24. SSI reduces payments based on other sources of income.

SSI payments are adjusted if you receive support from other sources, for example, a disabled child's benefits may be reduced by their parent's income.

[No Elephants]

29. ? In Replies 3 and 8, Joshcryer claimed it was "bullshit" to reduce a recipient's

SSI check by the amount of family contributions to that recipient.

My Reply 12 asked joshcryer why s/he thinks such a reduction is bullshit and went on to say why I think such a reduction is fair to other recipients who have no other income. I have no idea how you got from my reply that I am unaware of the reduction.


(As I posted today in Reply 27 in response to someome else, I separate the issue of treating all SSI recipients the same from the issue of whether the SSI amount is adequate for living expenses)

[Mnemosyne]

9. Even a birthday card with $25 in it is supposed to be reported. n/t

[No Elephants]

13. Meh. No one reports and there is no realistic way for govt to find out that info.

[kelly1mm]

19. While there may be no way for the government to find out, it is still fraud

and, given the magnitude, lessons the pool of money available for those without resourses from family/friends. Corporate fraud is a much bigger problem but you win no converts by ignoring fraud at any level and saying 'but big business does it more'. It is either wrong or not.

[No Elephants]

30. Um, where did I say it was not fraud & where did I say anything at all about corporations or big

business?


Please also advise what in my post suggested to you that I am trying to win converts? And please also let me know what I am supposedly trying to convert people to.

[boppers]

21. Link to where $25 in a birthday card is required to be reported?

$250 I could maybe see, but $25 is a bit of a stretch... I give more than that out every day.

[Joe Bacon]

25. See http://www.socialsecurity.gov

All rules and regulations about SSI are on our webpage. Basically, beneficiaries are allowed up to a combination of earned and unearned income up to $85 a month and not have their benefits affected. For every $2 they go over that, their SSI is reduced by $1. There are other exclusions that can be applied if a person is blind, or a student, or if they are trying to go back to work. That's where SSI gets very complicated.

[boppers]

34. So, not $25. eom

[Mnemosyne]

32. It says gifts on the website. n/t

[No Elephants]

10. AFAIK, survivors benefits (kids and widows or widowers) are paid under

both OASDI (Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance) and SSI. In fact, OASDI was originally for widows and kids of deceased workers.

However, OASDI is based on some worker having paid into the OASDI fund, while SSI is based solely on need. OASDI is an insurance program, while SSI is a welfare program.

The improper payments being referred to are those made to people who made themselves eligible for SSI, a welfare program, by lying about their need.

[mopinko]

18. that is not what they are talking about.

those are regular ss payment as survivors, or as a retiree on the husbands contributions. they are talking about ssi, which is for the poor with medical conditions that are disabling. not the same.

[Joe Bacon]

23. SSI is a separate program

Widows receive benefits through Social Security, not SSI. SSI is a needs-based program for aged people over 65 (they haven't raised that yet), disabled or blind people who have low income and total resources less than 2,000 for a single person or 3,000 for a couple. Those resource limits have not been adjusted since 1983, so fewer and fewer people qualify for SSI. Another way the Conservatives are screwing the needy...

[buckrogers1965]

4. I can already see the movie they make from this...

Imagine a poor fellow getting a check for 4 billion dollars. *L*

[HuskiesHowls]

6. Gee, they don't mention that some of that gets repaid...

My daughter is disabled, and lives on disability payments and SSI. It seems they overpaid her, so, they're taking it out of what she gets monthly.
When you're trying to live on just over $600/ month, taking away $50 of that just makes it that much harder!!

[yellowcanine]

7. This has been going on for years. It happened to me nearly 40 years ago.

I was collecting survivor benefits after my Dad passed away. Since I was a full time college student I was entitled to keep collecting them. Then I went and got married between my jr and sr years of college. The benefits were supposed to stop at that point. However they continued, I think for at least another 6 months. I knew I would have to pay them back so wisely I did not cash the checks. But I had to take care of it myself to get them stopped. I probably could have gotten away with keeping the money and continued to collect until I graduated from college. But it would have been wrong, to quote Richard Nixon, as he went ahead and did the wrong thing anyway. I certainly didn't want to be like Richard Nixon. So I gave the money back.

[No Elephants]

14. Had you reported your marriage to Social Security? If not, how was anyone supposed to find out?

In Nixon's day, even IRS info was not shared with either OASDI or welfare.

When you apply for any of those programs, you sign that you will promptly report any changes that could affect your eligibility.

[yellowcanine]

17. I don't remember but am fairly sure I did because my wife took my name and we submitted the change

to SS.

[No Elephants]

31. Was your wife collecting Social Security, too? If not, why would you have submitted a name change

for her to Social Security, as opposed to, say, the IRS?

If you submitted a name change for her to Social Security simply to make sure her lifetime wage earning record would reflect her earnings as both a single woman and a married woman, that would have had nothing to do with notifying Social Security that your eligibity for survivor's benefits had ended. It probably would not even have included your social security number, let alone the SS # number of the wage earner under whose account you were collecting Social Security benefits.

[RobinA]

16. I'd Question

how they determine what is an "overpayment" for inclusion into this number.

Another point re: people not reporting. Please. Unless you have money stashed under a mattress I can't see where it would be that SS couldn't pretty easily track it down. Under the table jobs? Maybe. But my experience with the under the table people is that most of them are working just to get by, even WITH the SSI. SSI is so minimal that you can't really live on it. I have encountered in my work people whose under the table earnings if reported would make them ineligible for SSI, and believe me, they are not living in mansions. If you give them a choice, report and lose SSI or quit to keep SSI, most of them would quit. SSI is at least reliable and comes attached to health insurance. Under the table work is neither. These are people who want to work but can't get hired in the over the table market. The under the table job market is largely invisible to the powers that be, but it is substantial in urban areas. It employs all kinds of people who otherwise couldn't work at all.

[Gormy Cuss]

33. I'm betting that all the right-wing talking heads are using this headline...

to bolster their arguments against Social Security (the retirement program)even though the WP article makes clear that most of the payment problems are with the separately funded, SSA-administered, Supplemental Security Income program.