NY's top Catholic officials seek to halt Senate vote on legalizing gay marriage

[t0dd]

Source: NY Daily News

ALBANY - New York's top Catholic sought to slow momentum Tuesday toward a state Senate vote to legalize gay marriage.

"The stampede is on," Archibishop Timothy Dolan wrote in a blog post. "Our elected senators who have stood courageous in their refusal to capitulate on the state's presumption to redefine marriage are reporting unrelenting pressure to cave-in."

He equated the move to allow same-sex marriage to life in China or North Korea, where "government presumes daily to 'redefine' rights, relationships, values and natural law."

"Please, not here!" Dolan continued. "We cherish true freedom, not as the license to do whatever we want, but the liberty to do what we ought."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/06/14/2011-06-14_nys_top_catholic_officials_seek_to_halt_senate_vote_on_legalizing_gay_marriage.html?r=topnews

---

I guess when you are guilty of so many other crimes against humanity--concealing the rape and torture of children, keeping silent during and inciting genocides, raising money off of the poor and credulous, preaching that condoms are worse than aids, etc.--the Catholic Church trying to halt even a vote on marriage equality in NY is not the least surprising.

[Tempest]

1. "We cherish true freedom"

If that were true, he wouldn't be trying to remove freedoms for gays.

[sakabatou]

2. "We cherish true freedom... the freedom to be bigots!"

[fascisthunter]

10. the Freedom to Oppress

who the fuck do they think they are???? They don't even pay TAXES!!!!!

[Angry Dragon]

3. They should be stripped of their tax-exemption

they are playing politics and that is against the rules........

[justiceischeap]

8. Not so... I learned something interesting about this during the whole Prop 8 situation

Section 501(c)(3):

Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.

Also, I can't find the information at the moment but there's also something about being able to spend a certain % of what your church is worth on "issues" and since the Mormon church and the Catholic church (the 2 churches behind Prop 8) didn't spend anywhere near what they're worth, they'll never lose their tax exempt status.

[smirkymonkey]

26. +1000

Pay taxes or keep your noses out of political issues, asswipes!

[defendandprotect]

44. +1 -- and any exemption s/be limited to the church and its surrounding property....

it's soup kitchen --

NOT all of its real estate holdings nor its stock portfolio!!

[closeupready]

4. LOL - they shifted pedophile priests from parish to parish and

covered for others' crimes against children in their authoritarian organization. And then they deign to pose as any kind of moral authority? Ick. They DESTROYED the lives of THOUSANDS of children! :mad:

I'm trying to come up with some kind of rejoinder like, "Keep your rosaries off our ovaries!" but I can't think of anything that rhymes.

[lbrtbell]

23. How about this?

Keep your pedos out of our speedos! :rofl:

[closeupready]

24. That'll work. lol

:D

[damntexdem]

5. He's for the liberty to do what he tells you.

And not just members of his religion but all people.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. Get the Church out of my State!

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Big Brother would be proud: "freedom: the liberty to do what we ought"

Oh, turns out it was John Paul II who came up with this bit of doublethink:

True liberty, the pope said (alluding to Lord Acton), is not the liberty to do what we wish, but the liberty to do what we ought.

http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/mnovak/08815.html

What I find of Acton on liberty:

By liberty I mean the assurance that every man shall be protected in doing what he believes his duty against the influence of authority and majorities, custom and opinion.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Liberty

Which is not what the pope claimed. In fact, Acton's definition of liberty would support gay marriage "against the influence of authority and majorities, custom and opinion", in "doing one's duty" of marrying one's life partner, if that's what you think "makes an honest man/woman" of them.

[Dawson Leery]

17. JP II was a talented huckster/hustler.

He brought his church's ignorant stance on birth control to Africa which in turn allowed for AIDS to spread.

[fascisthunter]

9. Keep Yur Goddamn Religious Rules out of our Government

fuckers!

[SoapBox]

11. Separation of Church AND State...

enough said.

And to the Catholic Cult of the Perverted and Child Molestor...worry about yourselves.

You've got a big "bill" to pay off, before you can get saved from HELL.

[mysuzuki2]

12. Timothy Dolan used to be archbishop here in Milwaukee before he went to Albany

our gain, their loss!

[dballance]

13. This Isn't the Dark Ages - The Church is not the Government Anymore

Go pound sand Dolan.

You are welcome to your beliefs and practices. In fact, I'd defend them to the death because it's the right thing to do (oh, BTW, I'm an atheist but I believe in your right to believe). But don't you dare tell me what I have to believe and practice if I'm not one of your flock.

I don't need to be saved from my iniquitous ways by the same methods your church saved people during the Inquisition or the Crusades. And your church has the audacity to call Islam a violent religion. How pathetic.

Given the history of your church and all the child-abuse scandals what you OUGHT to do is shut your mouth on GLBT issues and go look to fix the obvious problems in your church.

[truebrit71]

14. There is an insufficiency of adequate words to describe my disdain for that cult of child buggerers

..it almost makes me wish I believed in an eternal hell....

Where was that "true freedom" and "liberty to do what you ought" when your church (and specifically now-Pope Ratzinger) was covering up thousands upon thousands of child rapes Archbishop?

...:grr:

[nichomachus]

15. What a blowhard piece of shit

[Dawson Leery]

16. The government was taken away from the church and given

to the people. The Catholic Church has NEVER accepted the Renaissance or the Enlightenment.

As with confederate sympathizers, the RCC has never accepted progress. In this, they are joined by religious fundamentalists everywhere.

[Johnny Harpo]

18. Hey Archbishop!...The Church And The State Are Seperate!

unless you guys want to start paying property taxes.

[DonCoquixote]

19. Sad

The catholic church is in bad, bad need of a reform. even more so than the Martin Luther days.

[LetTimmySmoke]

20. That Catholic Church has an orwellian definition of "true freedom."

Right out of 1984's doublethink.

[dogfacedboy]

21. Yeah, let's let pedophiles dictate public policy. FUCK THE RC CHURCH!

It's nothing but a NAMBLA chapter.

[Unvanguard]

22. You've lost, Archbishop Dolan. Get over it.

The sooner, the better, both for your Church and for everyone else.

[gtar100]

25. What a bunch of double-speak, twisted logic.

"Our elected senators who have stood courageous in their refusal to capitulate on the state's presumption to redefine marriage are reporting unrelenting pressure to cave-in."

The pressure they tend to cave in on is coming from the church.

He equated the move to allow same-sex marriage to life in China or North Korea, where "government presumes daily to 'redefine' rights, relationships, values and natural law."

They've had the bully-pulpit for so long they don't see that it is they who force their will on government to define the rights of relationships. They themselves ignore natural law by trying to force human nature into a mold. They are far too convinced by their own self-loathing to see their lack of regard for natural law.

"We cherish true freedom, not as the license to do whatever we want, but the liberty to do what we ought."

Now there's a brain-twister if there ever was one. So our only "freedom" is to do what the church mandates (my interpretation of Dolan's idea of what we "ought" to do). How is that freedom? Freedom is subservience? Subservience is freedom? The man is nuts! He will continue to have a bright future in the church.

Truly there is a large segment of humanity that is highly fearful of human nature. The church unfortunately attracts far too many of them.

[t0dd]

27. Archbishop: If Marriage Equality Law Passes NY Will Be Like North Korea

Source: The New Civil Rights Movement

“Last time I consulted an atlas, it is clear we are living in New York, in the United States of America – not in China or North Korea,” Dolan writes. “In those countries, government presumes daily to ‘redefine’ rights, relationships, values, and natural law. There, communiqués from the government can dictate the size of families, who lives and who dies, and what the very definition of ‘family’ and ‘marriage’ means.”

Of course, if there’s one thing the Church — and its top leadership — is good at, it is in instilling fear. Just ask any of the victims of pedophile priests.

“But, please, not here! Our country’s founding principles speak of rights given by God, not invented by government, and certain noble values – life, home, family, marriage, children, faith – that are protected, not re-​defined, by a state presuming omnipotence,” Dolan states, not recognizing the fact that same-​sex couples are citizens of the same country he is, and equal in all measures — except under current law.

Read more: http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/archbishop-if-marriage-equality-law-passes-ny-will-be-like-north-korea/politics/2011/06/15/22194

[WCGreen]

28. That myopic view of everything modern is why I left the church I

loved 30 years ago...

[Stratosgc]

33. I left for similar reasons after 58 years.

I am now a member of the United Church of Christ. They actually work for justice, peace, and they believe in democracy, and the value of education. The people in the pews vote on major issues.

[t0dd]

35. I am the proud member of no supernatural cult

I think it's offensive to think religious affiliation is necessary to lead an ethical life. Deeply offensive, actually. I know to love my neighbor and not lie, steal, etc. without a divine permission, thanks.

[Hardrada]

46. Welcome to DU!

My wife is UCC.

[IntravenousDemilo]

29. If it doesn't NY will be like Saudi Arabia or Iran, which are worse. n/m

[Rockholm]

30. Dolan is a very funny man. And equally scary.

What a fucked up individual he is.

[christx30]

31. I can see that

allowing gay people to get married will lead immediatly to mass starvations, closing society to the rest of the world, and worshipping the Dear Leader as if he were a god. Probably within the hour. It could lead to Nazis riding dinosaurs! We can't allow it! DOMA! DOMA! :sarcasm:

[Moonwalk]

38. Wait...did you just describe the Catholic Church?

The countries where it reigns supreme have starvation because of no birth control, which leads to too many mouths to feed, are usually closed off to the rest of the world and everyone worships a "Dear Leader" who must not be questioned or disparaged--oh, and anything horrible that happens is never the fault of the Church, but of evil, outside influences....hm. When Catholicism is really in control of a place, that place becomes a lot like North Korea. Certainly more so than, say, Massachusetts where gay marriage has been legal for seven years now.

And I suspect that the people of North Korea would love to be like Massachusetts even if they were forced to live with gay marriage :eyes:

[ladywnch]

32. when you folks get YOUR house in order we might consider taking

your views into account on ANYTHING.

[leahcim]

34. How can right wingers...

... be so offended by homosexuals, while simultaneously being such flaming drama queens?

[Ian David]

36. It's simple, really.

Phase One: Gay Marriage
Phase Two: ??
Phase Three: North Korea

[Kaleko]

40. Love that visual aid.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[CatholicEdHead]

37. Dog Whistle languge there

Talking about China and North Korea is along the same line as the Warsaw Bloc and USSR. He is speaking to the JPII crowd with the communist language. In that fighting gay marriage is the same as JPII did when he fought the USSR communists in Poland.

[Moonwalk]

39. To Everyone Living in Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and Washington, D.C--

I'm SO sorry! I had no idea you were living in such a harsh, repressive, cruel place! :sarcasm:

Like North Korea! :wow: How can we help? Should we send you food? Send balloons with news from the outside world for you to read? Smuggle you out into neighboring "South Korea" states?

You poor, poor people! :hug:

[drm604]

41. That may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Well, maybe not the dumbest, but pretty damned dumb.

[mwooldri]

42. And Archbishop, when your priests stop buggering with our children...

then I'll start listening.

[theHandpuppet]

43. Dolan, you've been tippling too much communion wine

Because you're babbling like an idiot, Archbishop!

[JosefK]

45. If little boys find out they can play house with each other...

there won't be anyone for the priests to play with!