To address unemployment, Georgia governor proposes farm work

[alp227]

Source: CNN

Atlanta (CNN) -- Are you out of work? Are you looking for a job? Do you live in Georgia?

If the answer to those questions is "yes," Gov. Nathan Deal has an idea for you: Become a farm worker.

"We still have an unemployment level here that is unacceptably high, whether or not we can provide some way of transitioning some of those individuals," Deal said last week.

"Perhaps it requires some relocation in some cases for them to be able to fill some of these jobs. We're going to explore all of those things."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/02/georgia.immigration.farm.workers/index.html

[onehandle]

1. Republicans. Rocketing us back to an agricultural society. nt

[StarsInHerHair]

68. don't knock what feeds you, I get it that this guy wants people to be very low

wage farm workers, I say turn the tables on him!

[wordpix]

87. actually, returning to our agrarian roots could save the nation

Thomas Jefferson wasn't all bad. Neither is organic farming, which is labor intensive, and provides farmers a living wage. That's why more are doing it.

[gkhouston]

92. As long as it's a *living* wage. Not sure that's what the governor

has in mind.

[RebelOne]

2. I live in Georgia and I am not looking for a job.

I am retired, but even if I did need a job, there is no way I would work outside in the hot temperature, which is in the middle to high 90s right now.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[provis99]

30. Guess what? Immigrants don't want those crappy jobs, either.

It's just that for them, it's either take the job or die of starvation.

[John_Adams]

49. Work or starve...

Interesting concept.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Excuse me!

Me and my WHITE FAMILY have done plenty of farm work. What a fucking racist thing to say!

[BeliQueen]

4. To say that this is wrong-headed is to agree with the elitist racist idea that...

"Americans are too good to work in the fields. That's why we have illegal immigrants/slaves."

I wouldn't want to work in the field for crap wages, but why is it wrong to say that this is a viable alternative to unemployment.

It would be a better alternative if the wages and working conditions were more favorable.

[comtec]

9. Agree'd however ...

I'm a high-tech worker. I personally have nothing against working on the farm,
however i do have problems GETTING low-end jobs - the idea being "well you'll leave as soon as something better comes along" which i find an asinine thing to say.... ANYONE WILL LEAVE as soon as something better comes along.

I think a program where I can go, work on the farm until I find a real job is not a bad idea at all.
Public works was a wonderful thing for this country.

However, does that mean that farms will now have to pay minimum wage? will that wage be paid by the state? will immigration laws be ENFORCED?

after all it's enforcement that is the problem not the laws on the books.

I seriously doubt this bone headed governor does not think.... about all these things.
it was just a flippant comment, he has no interest in backing up, like every other GOPer out there.

[freedom fighter jh]

35. What BeliQueen said nt

[quakerboy]

39. I disagree

I think you take it in the wrong direction. No one should have to do those jobs at those wages. Not US citizens or undocumented workers.

I think that US citizens should be doing these jobs. I think there are those who would do them. Here in Oregon, I just hired a mix of people, everything from 18 right out of HS to mid 50's for some fairly demanding physical labor. But we pay a decent wage. Everyone doing it deserves a higher rate yet, but I bet I easily double or better what these ag jobs pay, with much better working conditions. I do not think that citizens or undocumented should be pushed to take jobs that will likely be abusive to the body at wages that will not cover the damages that are done.

Actually, thinking about it, that strikes deep into one of the biggest problems we have here. Work is in no way related to pay. A guy sitting in an office, doing in all actuality relatively little, is considered high worth, while actual productive workers are ill considered. A Dr Saving lives is of moderate worth, while a good marketing person who convinces people to buy unnecessary items is of extreme worth.

[OnionPatch]

41. +1000 ..... No one should have to work for those kinds of wages.

The whole argument about whether Americans or immigrants should or would do those jobs is a moot point. Those jobs should be paying a living wage. If you ask me, the price of food is artificially low because farm workers aren't paid a decent living. And then we pay out the whazzoo for gas so Exxon can get filthy rich. None of the work or products are priced on anything else but how much a rich businessman can exploit everyone else.

[StarsInHerHair]

69. I'd love it if a Dem slipped in a provision anywhere, shifting the oil welfare

to farm wages!

[Blue_Tires]

74. not to mention the fact that Georgia isn't known for generous worker's rights...

Whatever that clown is selling, I want no part of until he takes the lead and goes first...

[Lionessa]

42. Exactly! And furthermore, if legal residents begin taking these positions

then it will not be long till the wages and conditions have to be improved. I've always said that it isn't that "we" won't take the jobs, it's that we won't take them in the unfair, abusive way that they are currently presented.

[alarimer]

51. If they paid real wages, I bet lots of people would do those jobs.

Americans will not do those jobs FOR THE WAGES THEY ARE CURRENTLY OFFERING. Working at Starbucks pays better and is overall better in terms of working conditions.

Probably unemployment pays more (for as long as it lasts) than working in the fields for the shit wages they offer.

[snooper2]

70. Well, at $9.12 an hour, that's more than Wal-Mart and Target..

Of course a lot of people in this country are lazy bastards so they would rather make $7.12 "working" a register than $9.12 actually working...

And per the article, farm work pays $230 a week more than unemployment...But you would have had to read the article...

[matt819]

5. If the questions were intended to open a debate, then maybe that's not a bad idea

On the other hand, if they were intended somehow as an attack on the left, then the questions are meaningless.

Back to my initial statement - open for debate.
As another poster indicates, what does it say about us as a society when we're looking at perhaps highly trained, technically trained, educated people being urged to do farmwork?
If farmwork is a genuine option, what questions do we need to begin asking about fair wages, the price of food, etc.? Is it okay - should it be okay - to pay Americans the same, and treat them the same, as migrant workers?

[Tempest]

6. Considering the majority of the unemployed are over the age of fifty

This is a horrible idea.

[eilen]

27. My dh is 43, many of the guys he works with are over 50

and they are electricians. They work in the heat, exposed to chemicals, concrete dust etc. When they press the contractors, sometimes they get a fan but most of the time they don't, there is no air conditioning. Wearing a mask often makes it worse trying to breathe. They build hospitals, nuclear plants, shopping malls, airports, parking garages, factories and maintain them/update them. How else do you thing things get built? They do this everywhere in the country. There is water provided by law. They don't get to go inside the nice office restrooms, instead have to use the porta-potties. They are not allowed to eat in the cafeteria or staff break room, no they get to sit in the dirt, sometimes on buckets outside a job trailer and there is no refrigerator to put their lunch box in. The over 50 guys aren't as fast as the young ones but they know a lot more. When he worked in the nuclear plant in TN it was really hot. He had to wear special clean uniforms over his clothes and every night his clothing would be drenched by sweat. It is very humid in those plants and there is not much air circulation.

No elevators either at these jobs-- unless there is a lift for the materials that they can hitch a ride on, they are climbing ladders.

So, farm work, which is hard work by all rights --I have never seen a lazy farmer-- can't be much worse. If you can bend your knees and possess thumbs, you can do it. It might drive you nuts with boredom as I don't believe harvesting a field requires a ton of critical thinking but it is doable.

[roseBudd]

45. True, but they have been doing this physical labor fopr decades and are in condition...

I read that contractors have great muscle tone, but that because the labor they do doesn't get their heart rate up, it doesn't help them in the cardio dept.

When in Jamaica, I saw men that were 60, that were in fantastic shape, but that was from a liftetime of not ever having been sedentary.

And not owning a car

[eilen]

46. Yes, he has been doing this for years

OTOH, I see people who are not blue collar on the golf course all day....

[bitchkitty]

48. Golf is not that physically demanding.

Golf carts kind of blow the fitness side of things.

[sandyd921]

47. Probably pay a lot less

I suspect that the farmworker jobs pay a lot less than what the going rate is for electricians (even though the physical toll is likely the same). Of course moving more (and eventually ALL) working people into jobs that pay shit, is the goal of republiCONS like this governor.

[Walk away]

60. Licensed Electricians make 5 times the minimum wage to start around here.

They can make quite a lot more. They have the hope of saving enough money to someday retire or work for themselves. Farm workers are generally treated like machines.

[NickB79]

54. So is the average farmer in this country

If your point is that farm labor is too demanding physically for someone in their 50's or 60's to do it, then we should demand the majority of US farmers retire immediately.

[aquart]

7. There are DUers looking for that work.

We had a thread on it a short while back. They taught me the meaning of the expression "walking the beans" which was new to this city girl.

[rfranklin]

8. Fine and pay them a living wage...cue the crickets...

This is the Repoublican dream, sweat shops, sharecroppers, child labor and all for less than minimum wage.

[customerserviceguy]

15. Once true market wages have to be paid for agricultural work

We'll see inventive people develop machines to do that work. That's what's happened in the industrial sector with back-breaking jobs.

[KamaAina]

16. Nice point!

That's why the North industrialized and the South didn't: the South had access to slave labor. Didn't work out for them so well in the war, though.

[customerserviceguy]

17. The agricultural economy in the US still has slave labor

in the form of the wink-wink attitude of the US government towards illegal alien labor. Can you imagine that in one or two hundred years from now, we'll still have human beings doing squat labor to plant, tend, and harvest crops? I envision farms where machines will do all of that. Keeping illegal labor here is only pushing that day off a little farther.

Ditto for the hospitality industry, as well. While I can't imagine a machine that would make a bed in a motel, I can conceive of machines that would gather up and do dirty dishes.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. To anyone who is screaming for a New Deal but turns their nose up at this...

...what the fuck do you think a new New Deal would employ people to DO? Sorry to burst bubbles, folks, but
manual labor was a huge part of the New Deal, and it would have to be so for any new government jobs plan
now.

The New Deal caused stuff to be BUILT and MADE. That requires LABOR, often MANUAL LABOR. If you're too good for
manual labor, you don't really want a job.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. ever had heat exhaustion? It's no fun.

It requires a trip to the emergency room.
I got it once playing racquetball in an air conditioned gym.

results in uncontrollable vomiting and severe pounding headaches and high blood pressure. Not fun.

A lot of people can't handle heat and humidity even if they are in good health.
Heat and humidity are a deadly combination. The sweat does not evaporate, leading to overheating.

The experts finally said that using a fan in an unairconditioned room makes the heat worse. It's cooking people faster like a convection oven.

The Air Conditioning is necessary to take the water out of the air. Also, the temperature does not go down at night when the humidity is high.

i grew up in houston in an un airconditioned house and it was HELL. Many nights I couldn't sleep because the humidity was 100% and the low temperature was 75 or 78.

The rest of the south is the same way. High heat and humidity. A recipe for illness and death.

[WatsonT]

19. Amazing our species managed to evolve in Africa and survive there

consider that continents lack of central air conditioning.

Such a fragile species, only able to barely scrape by in temperate zones doing light office type work. Certainly no manual labor.

[Abq_Sarah]

23. It is amazing

How on earth did we ever survive before central AC?

[freedom fighter jh]

36. By drinking a lot of water

Someone has to work in the fields so that there is food for everyone. If the work is done by illegals, there will not be much consideration for health and safety, because these people have no redress. Work in the heat can be made safe if there is access to shade and water and if breaks are mandatory, increasing in frequency as the temperature rises. Getting it done by folks like us in a way that is safe even if unpleasant is better than getting it done by people who are forced to do it unsafely because of their legal status.

[quakerboy]

43. You do know life expectancy has hovered between 30-40 years through most of history?

Its interesting that. Right around the turn of the century the modern AC was created. Right around the turn of the century expected lifespan jumped from 30ish to 70 ish. One could draw all sorts of conclusions from this that are probably not warranted by fact. But I imagine it was one of many bits of modern life that makes a difference.

Fromt he utilitarian view, I suppose, there are two ways to look at it. On the one hand, sending US Citizens out into the working conditions Migrant labor is subjected to to for the pay migrant labor is accustomed to is one way to ensure that they will likely need medical assistance that much sooner, thus increasing tax dollar expenditures to cover it(assuming we don't let the Republics nuke Medicaid). On the other, its likely to reduce the number of people who reach the medicare rolls, thus decreasing tax dollar expenditures.

[NickB79]

55. Effective vaccines and sanitation were the driving force behind the drop in mortality

Childhood mortality due to disease overshadowed all other forms of preventable death until useable vaccines came along in the early 1900's. The development of AC might have contributed a small degree later on, but can't be attributed to the dramatic drop in mortality we saw because it wasn't widely available in households until the mid-1900's.

[WatsonT]

61. From disease, not heat stroke

yes you can die from the heat. But the reason life expectancies were so low wasn't rashes of heat stroke, it was infectious diseases.

Central air conditioning meant people slept with their windows closed, drastically reducing the incidences of mosquito born illness.

The heat is more of an inconvenience than serious health threat. As mammals go we have among the best cooling systems (mostly hairless, numerous sweat glands, upright stance that reduces our exposure to sun). The reason people die from the heat today has more to do with a lack of acclimation and not drinking enough water.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

78. Heat Wave Deaths

Heat Wave deaths:

1. 56,000 2010 Russian heat wave Russia 2010
2. 40,000 2003 European heat wave Europe 2003
3. 5,000–10,000 1988 United States heat wave United States 1988
4. 1,700 1980 United States heat wave United States 1980
5. 1,500 2003 Southern India heat wave India 2003
6. 946 1955 Los Angeles heat wave United States 1955
7. 891 1972 New York City heat wave United States 1972
8. 739 1995 Chicago heat wave United States 1995<18>

http://www.greatdreams.com/weather-deaths.htm
Heat Wave average deaths per year, greater than 20,000 worldwide, greater than 1,000 in the United States.


National Weather Related Deaths Average 1996 to 2003:
Avalanche 11
Winter Storm 45
Hurricane 13
River Flood & Small Stream 17
Flash Flood 65
Heat 260 <--highest number of all in this chart, FOUR TIMES AS HIGH as the next leading cause, Flash flood
Cold 23
Thunderstorm/Wind/Hail 27
Tornado 59
Lightning 51
=====

Heat Wave in 1896, New York City, 1,300 Dead. Horses Dropped dead in the streets:
http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Time-Old-Town-Roosevelt/dp/0465013368

[WatsonT]

81. Yeah you're not getting this

heat stroke has never been a major cause of death for H. sapiens.

You can continue to believe that lack of central air is instantly fatal. All the while 90% of the worlds population and 99.99999% of our historic population laughs at you.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

86. You're assuming EVERYBODY can work outside in the heat.

A lot of people cannot work outside in the heat.

If you're young and healthy, go for it.

I'm aware of my limits.

[WatsonT]

91. Indeed, this proposal was for mandatory farm labor for the entire population

until they all drop dead from heat stroke.

:eyes:

Way to move those goal posts.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

79. AC was not available in public until the 30s or 40s.

Houses were not commonly built with central air in the South, from my experience, until the 60s, and even then they were more expensive houses in better suburbs. Brick clad houses, not frame houses.

My elementary school and junior high (built in the 50s) were not air conditioned; my high school was (built in the 60s).

The South boomed in population because of Air Conditioning. It would not have boomed without Air Conditioning.

I was utterly miserable as a kid in Houston in an unairconditioned house with a couple of inadequate window units.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LanternWaste]

66. I imagine there were quite a few deaths during that time period from the very work you described

I imagine there were quite a few deaths during that time period from the very work you described. But if we look at workers as commodities rather than people, I imagine many will rationalize it. :shrug:

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. I guess we better not start planting crops in the South then, huh?

Oh, wait. Nevermind.

:eyes:

[wordpix]

88. it's OK for Mexican migrant workers to do the work in the South, but not Americans?

I saw migrant workers up on the hot roofs in the steamiest heat and humidity of high summer, day after day mixing hot burning roofing tar with their sneakers on. And that's OK, too, right?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[provis99]

31. farm labor in Georgia gets paid $9.12 an hour.

Farmers won't pay more than that, and would like to pay less.

When you adjust for cost of living, this is lower than what farm laborers are paid in South Africa.
http://www.labour.gov.za/legislation/acts/basic-guides/basic-guide-to-minimum-wages-farm-workers

[JonLP24]

50. Good point

A lot of people died during the construction of the Hoover Dam.

[alarimer]

52. I agree in principle but they build stuff like state parks

They did not work like slaves in the fields. There is a tremendous backlog of infrastructure projects at state and national parks. Put people to work doing that but feed them, house them and pay them a LIVING wage, not the piecework wages most agricultural workers get.

[Dreamer Tatum]

57. Slaves?

I think you conjure images. Working in fields is not akin to slavery.

And of course pay them a living wage.

[WatsonT]

62. People on this board seem to be aggressively anti-manual labor

apparently any job that involves sweating is slavery.

There's nothing wrong with working outside, with your hands. You can be quite content doing it. I was for a while. Granted I wouldn't want to do so forever, but there's nothing wrong with it.

Hell, if the pay were the same I could easily stand manual labor better than an office job shuffling papers and files back and forth under a sickly fluorescent bulb all day. Manual labor is physically exhausting but office work drains your soul.

[Dreamer Tatum]

65. I think any new New Deal would flop

people nowadays just don't want to work at anything that might raise a sweat or evoke any thought or memory
of working in fields.

I guess people expect the government to hire thousands to write poetry, strum guitars, bake brownies, or anything other than
the sort of labor required to improve infrastructure in this country.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

85. All that's missing in that post are the Cadillacs. Wow.

Ah, I forgot, the abortions on demand too.

[snooper2]

71. There's a reason for that, You can't work on a fucking roof and post on DU

at the same time..

And if you do spend all day laying squares, the last thing you are going to do is go home and jump on "DU" to talk about circumcision :rofl:


There are not very many blue collar folks on DU.

[octothorpe]

82. You can if your phone has internet :P

[Manifestor_of_Light]

80. I enjoy gardening too.

However, in this 100 degree heat we have right now, I go out for twenty minutes and then come inside.

If I start coughing and retching violently, it's time to go inside and cool off. That's the beginning of heat exhaustion. Which would mean a trip to the emergency room (see above post of mine).

My grandmother took me out one time to pick black eyed peas. She said we had to "get there early" to "avoid the heat".

In July it was already 90 degrees at 7 am. There was no way to "avoid the heat".

I went out there but did not enjoy it. I thought she was completely nuts.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

83. The real issue isn't qualitative, it's quantitative.

As in, how much are they planning to pay? How are the working conditions? How are the benefits? How much will they help with relocation? Etc etc etc.

And here is the crucial thing: Since we're talking about the Republican governor of Georgia, I think skepticism about the above is warranted. Don't you agree?

[stanwyck]

11. Ah, yes. Back to Tara and Gone WIth The Wind and all those

happy go lucky plantation workers in that idyllic South that never existed. I live in Atlanta and let me tell you - Gov. Nathan Deal made a huge mistake when he recently signed the GOP anti-immigration legislation. Migrant workers are bypassing Georgia. So - our crops are in jeopardy. As are our hospitality and construction businesses. Reagan got American business hooked on cheap labor/no benefits when he granted amnesty to thousands of illegals 30 years ago. Now- American industries don't want to pay living wages. Even George W. Bush had a better solution for our use of illegal labor - guest workers who would become citizens. Now, though, AZ has led the way of cutting off our nose to save our face with punitive legislation. Is a plantation society really want the GOP is after? It sure seems that way.

[Rebubula]

13. Plantation society??

That is exactly WHAT we are creating by allowing illegal immigrants to work here without federal oversight.

They Illegals have no legal recourse and can be paid for shit and worked hard\terminated for no reason.

This problem will not be resolved anytime soon as it has been building for 50 years.

But to say what the Gov has done will create a plantation society is making a statement 20 years too late.

[KamaAina]

14. DING DING DING!!!

Gov. Nathan Deal made a huge mistake when he recently signed the GOP anti-immigration legislation. Migrant workers are bypassing Georgia. So - our crops are in jeopardy. As are our hospitality and construction businesses.

Give that poster a cigar! :thumbsup:

[alp227]

20. well aren't there plenty of citizens in Ga. who could work there? n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

24. I would think so

But judging from some of the responses, many people seem to think that kind of work is too demeaning.

[keroro gunsou]

37. there is a difference

between demeaning and dangerous. i know full well from my own experience that i do not do well working outside without adequet hydration and breaks. even with water and shade breaks it's still not a sure thing. now it's even worse with my hernia, my lifting is limited and overall usefullness is too... for some people it really is a matter of their health.

that said, i don't think the work is beneath me, i do think that i'd be worth more than the quasi-slave wages that would be offered me.

[stanwyck]

25. go right ahead. Report back.

Just know that you're not going to find OSHA regulations in place. Or minimum wage. Or benefits. Georgia's agri-business' margins are based on illegal immigration - and illegal workers without living wages or any amnenities. But - if that's OK with you - go right ahead. And report back. (we've had some notable disasters - as in the sugar industry fire when workers found out they were locked inside.) http://www.changetowin.org/Workersmemorialday
If that's what you want for American workers - go right ahead and show us the way.

[stanwyck]

32. Personally, I'd prefer we have decent paying union jobs

with benefits - just like the USA had back in the 50's and 60's. The middle-class had buying power - and everyone benefited. Middle-class Americans could buy products, houses, and support thriving communities. Odd that people here want us working for min. wage without benefits - because what the agri-businesses/hospitality/construction businesses do who hire illegals is make sure that work week falls short of "full-time" - so no benefits. Is that what you want? A feudal society? Shouldn't we want a higher standard of living? Not a lower?

[alp227]

33. I support a higher std. of living, and I assumed that the illegals bypassing Ga. a good thing

so that citizens could do the work and of course have more protections under federal labor law

[WatsonT]

21. You aren't free to leave a plantation

nor do you get paid.

Calling this a plantation society is to deem any system wherein you must work for a wage slavery.

No wonder people think we're lazy.

"Gasp! You expect me to work, outside, where there's no TV or air condition!!??!? I might break a sweat, even get a tan! This is worse than slavery!!!!"

[Scottybeamer70]

26. I worked in the cotton fields in Texas.........

until I started to college. Swore I would never pick cotton again! I suggest the governor go to the fields
and show how it is done..........12 hours a day! He wouldn't last 5 minutes.

[onethatcares]

28. I think he ought to pick peaches

in the hot Georgia sun for 12 hours a day, no bruised fruit counted toward the bushel.

Yeah, I can just picture unemployed college grads or even unemployed white folks just bustin their butt to get those kind of jobs.

I wonder what they pay for a bushel now a days?

[snooper2]

72. What year was that, did it provide you money you needed? Where there no other jobs?

Would you rather had worked at Dairy Queen?

Do you regret having to get your hands dirty?

[jwirr]

29. Relocation to a job that does not pay well but more importantly is

temporary.

[cppuddy]

34. As long as the people that want these jobs get payed a living wage!!

As long as the people that want these jobs get payed a living wage!! Not just a minimum wage. I have worked racking blue berries in maine. Not an easy job. And at 5 dollars per two five gallon pales, not a money making one

[MichiganVote]

38. Better yet! Become a slave!

[DemoTex]

40. That's a long row to hoe, Gov. Deal.

Deal sounds like he just came into town on the turnip wagon.

[Marthe48]

53. If he proposed farm ownership

I live in Ohio, and when we drive across the state, there are so many abandoned farms. The Amish bought a lot of them in the 80's and 90's, but every time we drive, it seems like there are more empty farms. The pukes wouldn't dream of proposing land/business ownership, though, as they want all the marbles. Deal is twisting the puke knife when he says farm work instead of farm ownership. Family farms are hard work, hard to make a decent living, and probably won't get rich. But part of the American dream was land ownership. We were an agrarian society until the Industrial Revolution. Then we transitioned to Industry, then Technology. Now Service, which has so many fewer rewards than family farming. Our government and business leaders have systematically sold our options down the river, revoking the promise of America as a place for a better life. I read that Americans work harder, spend more hours on the job, and take fewer vacations than any nation in the world--that was right before the good jobs went south, and east. In the end, it isn't about working hard, in severe conditions, it is about disappearing opportunity for every citizen in this country.

[NickB79]

56. Boy, when the effects of Peak Oil really begin to hit we're screwed

Judging by the opinions on this thread.

Without access to cheap fossil fuels to run tractors and combines as much as we want, we're going to have to go back to more manual labor to keep food production up, both locally and globally. Want to see the future of farming? Visit a small family-run organic farm and watch how much extra physical labor must be invested just to replace the artificial chemicals other farms use. Now multiply that by many millions of new farmers and farm laborers we'll need just here in the US in the next few decades, as we need to break up the current fleet of 1000-acre monocrop industrial farms back into the diversified 100-acre family farms they consumed over the past 75 years as cheap fossil fuels made increased farm industrialization possible.

Either that, or see widespread starvation as Mother Nature culls the herd down to a sustainable population of 2-3 billion humans.

[and-justice-for-all]

58. Will that come with a living wage??

I think not.

[madville]

63. Most of the farm labor around here is/was piece work

They get paid by the bushel, weight, crate, row or whatever. So the faster and harder they work the more they make. Sure the guy driving a tractor is making ten or fifteen bucks an hour but manual labor usually doesn't work that way. People aren't going to work in the sun, humidity and heat for any amount of money and if it was hourly or salary they wouldn't work like if they were getting paid by performance.

Back in the 90's a friend of mine would buy a bunch of cases of beer like Busch and Natural Light and sell it for $1 a can out of his car to the farm workers at their camps/trailers, they welcomed the service and were hospitable. Shooting the shit with those guys over some beers (my friend could speak Spanish decently)they were usually making $500-800 cash a week picking, raking/bailing pine straw, or whatever. They busted their asses 70 hours a week to do it but that seemed like a ton of money 15 years ago to us. I just doubt most Americans would work that hard these days, as a whole our society keeps getting lazier and softer.

[defendandprotect]

64. Maybe the Governor should give up his job and devote himself to working on a farm?

[harun]

67. Slavery 2.0

[Blue_Tires]

73. If this was a proposal from a Democratic governor, the media would jizz themselves

with 24/7 "USSR work farms" comparisons and imagery...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

84. This, too. Good point. Kind of a complement of my post #83.

:thumbsup:

[Earth_First]

75. I'm still waiting for a response to the $50/hr farm jobs that Gramps McCain offered in Yuma, Arizona

Unfortunately, that never panned out...

[totodeinhere]

76. There is nothing wrong with farm work. Any employment including farm work is dignified and

worthwhile. But farm workers, just like all workers, deserve a decent living wage and decent working conditions and the right to full benefits and the right to unionize.

[wordpix]

89. +1000 good post

[guitar man]

77. I have no problem with farm work

I'm getting a little older but I bet I could still give the youngins a run for their money. Sure, I'll do it, $20 an hour and I'm there ;)

[hollowdweller]

90. I have a farm and work an office job.

Granted I couldn't make a living farming with my small acreage but I'm 51 and it was in the 90's Memorial Day weekend and I spent it prying up manure out of my barn with a pitchfork, loading it into my truck and putting it on my garden and hayfields.

I love working hard outside, even in the heat but it won't pay my bills.

However if I was unemployed and could make $9 something an hour doing farmwork I'd do it.

I feel much more accomplishment at cleaning out my barn or making goat cheese than I do pushing paper in a cubicle and commuting 2 hours a day.

I also have a lot of friends who have worked farm labor. Detassling corn, raking blueberries, picking apples. Usually peice rate so to speak. They actually have made good money, enough to buy rural land and have their own places. They also work beside the immigrant labor on a lot of jobs.

I don't think the Gov is being realistic in that working as a farm laborer or even a skilled position on a farm is not a career really, and with a lot of the population obese it would be hard for them. However being somebody who does that type of work it IS rewarding and also contributes to your physical fitness in a way setting at a desk does not.

[Yavin4]

93. This Is Backwards Thinking

Farm jobs DO NOT pay a living wage. In addition, you are not developing the skills that you will need for future employment. You are not developing critical thinking and logic skills that you will need for the jobs that will pay a living wage.

At some point, someone will invent machinery that will replace the farm worker. Then what will become of you?