Alabama passes Arizona-style immigration bill

[pampango]

Source: USA Today

The Alabama Legislature passed an Arizona-style law Thursday night to crack down on illegal immigration, including a requirement that all businesses verify new employees are legal residents.

The House voted 67-29 and the Senate concurred 25-7 in a compromise bill worked out by two Republican legislators who led the charge for the legislation, Rep. Micky Hammon of Decatur and Sen. Scott Beason of Gardendale. The bill now goes to Gov. Robert Bentley (R), who has advocated immigration legislation.

The bill requires businesses to use the federal E-Verify system to check to see if their new hires are legal residents. Businesses with 25 or fewer employees could use the state Department of Homeland Security to do the checks for them. Any business twice cited for hiring illegal workers could lose its business license.

Beason said the checks would get rid of illegal workers that are taking jobs that should go to legal Alabama residents. "This is a jobs bill," he said.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-03-alabama-immigration-law_n.htm

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. On it's face, I agree with it.

[greiner3]

7. Get real;

You agree that only people of 'color' need carry papers? Whites will not be subjected to this search. Anyone else will have to wait and hope their names aren't mixed up with someone else's. This is also a way authorities can make arrests. Damn my country.

[customerserviceguy]

10. Where does it say in this legislation

that white people are exempted from e-Verify checks?

For the two and a half decades since the last amnesty passed, everybody has been required to do a "papers, please" shakedown in order to get a job. The only problem is that in 1986, Congress didn't foresee the copying techniques that we've had in place for quite some number of years now. It was inconceivable to them that someone could buy a credibly fake ID out of a car trunk.

[WatsonT]

11. Holy shit, it says people of color have to carry papers or else be deported immediately!

What an impossibly racist and illegal bill.

Let me just check and make sure that's what's actually in it . . . ok . . . hm . . . it seems you are misinformed.

[CreekDog]

20. the bill says people are aliens if they don't have the right papers

why are you making that a straw man when in fact, the bill does clearly state that if you don't have the right paper on you, the law considers you an alien?

maybe because you are only sure of your opinion because you don't know anything about the law you are commenting on.

A person shall be regarded as an alien unlawfully
23 present in the United States if the person's unlawful
24 immigration status has been verified by the federal government
25 pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) or if the person does not
26 possess proof of self-identification in any of the following
27 forms:

Page 61 a. A valid, unexpired Alabama driver's license.
2 b. A valid, unexpired Alabama nondriver
3 identification card.
4 c. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of
5 tribal identification.
6 d. Any valid United States federal, state, or local
7 government issued identification document if issued by an
8 entity that requires proof of lawful presence in the United
9 States before issuance.
10 e. A foreign passport with a United States Visa.
11 f. A foreign passport issued by a visa waiver
12 country with the corresponding entry stamp and duration of
13 stay annotation or an I-94W form.

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/ACTIONViewFrameMac.asp?TYPE=Instrument&INST=SB256&DOCPATH=searchableinstruments/2011RS/Printfiles/&PHYDOCPATH=//alisondb/acas/searchableinstruments/2011RS/PrintFiles/&DOCNAMES=SB256-int.pdf,SB256-eng.pdf,

don't have those documents on you? law says you're an alien.

and you defend it. people should consider this support when they read your other opinions on DU.

[WatsonT]

30. You said it was for people of color

that is clearly not in the bill. That was a lie. Everyone is subject to the same laws. If most illegal aliens happen to be non-white then oh well, but that doesn't mean only non-whites are affected.

If it turns out that most murderers are left handed and so, even though fairly enforced on people of all hand-types, more lefties go to jail then righthanded people would you call that a law against lefthanded folks?

[CreekDog]

31. I did NOT say it was for people of color --why don't you talk to the poster that said that?

In fact I never used the term, "people of color", nor the word "color", nor made a reference to race at all.

are you having difficulties?

i was commenting on the unconstitutional nature of the bill in that you are presumed an alien if you don't have the right paperwork on you.

that you defend this and many unconscionable positions is something that makes me wonder.

[WatsonT]

32. You're right, you didn't

but the poster I was responding to did.

Do you agree with his assessment?

Also do you believe a nation has the right to a border, including enforcing who may come across that border?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. I'm referring to the employer sanctions aspect of the bill. n/t

[CreekDog]

21. well that's the problem, you got out there and said you supported it

and even now, you don't express any problem with the provisions i pointed out to you.

and the story you're commenting on said the bill was as strong or stronger than Arizona's bill.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Let me be clear.

I support approaching illegal immigration by sanctioning(read: jailing) employers who knowingly hire them. Imo, it is the only thing that will work if the goal is securing employent for U.S. citizens.

Beyond that, I think immigration hysteria is bullshit. It's completely racist in nature. I do not support measures to intimidate, profile or otherwise harass the wonderful people who make up the migrant pool.

Admittedly, I was too flip with my original response and unclear as to the part of the bill I agreed with. I'll try not to do it in the future.

[CreekDog]

26. thanks for the clarification

because there are lots of people on DU that support the provisions I quoted.

[neoralme]

13. Me too. The situation here in southern california is so bad I cannot

believe it. It is like living in Ensenada. We all have steel doors on our houses and there is talk of hiring private armed guards to patrol our streets. That is costly, but the two streets next to ours may chip in. My wife and I have one more year here and then we are going to Vermont or Massachusetts. When the US splits off into the five groups that Russian professor outlined, I believe the Northeast will remain intact, with its own power base. The southwest corridor will be American by name only. I miss my walks in the neighborhood after dinner shortly after sunset. I use that time now to verify the working of the emergency lights and infrared cameras. I just wish they would quit breaking my sprinklers.

[CreekDog]

22. Wow, too many Mexicans, is that what you're saying?

because why would someone say living in California was as bad as living in Mexico?

and what does that have to do with illegal immigration?

enjoy your stay. :eyes:

[CreekDog]

19. You agree with unconstitutional racial profiling and making people carry passports in Alabama

for example, my California Driver's license has never required proof of citizenship, I've never provided a birth certificate, nor has one been verified for me for this document.

Read the text, if you don't have the right document on you --the law says you're an alien.

And you agree with that.

http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/ACTIONViewFrameMac.asp?TYPE=Instrument&INST=SB256&DOCPATH=searchableinstruments/2011RS/Printfiles/&PHYDOCPATH=//alisondb/acas/searchableinstruments/2011RS/PrintFiles/&DOCNAMES=SB256-int.pdf,SB256-eng.pdf,

(10) LAWFUL PRESENCE or LAWFULLY PRESENT. A person
20 is presumed to have lawful presence and not to be an alien who
21 is unlawfully present in the United States or in the State of
22 Alabama. A person shall be regarded as an alien unlawfully
23 present in the United States if the person's unlawful
24 immigration status has been verified by the federal government
25 pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) or if the person does not
26 possess proof of self-identification in any of the following
27 forms:
Page 61 a. A valid, unexpired Alabama driver's license.
2 b. A valid, unexpired Alabama nondriver
3 identification card.
4 c. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of
5 tribal identification.
6 d. Any valid United States federal, state, or local
7 government issued identification document if issued by an
8 entity that requires proof of lawful presence in the United
9 States before issuance.
10 e. A foreign passport with a United States Visa.
11 f. A foreign passport issued by a visa waiver
12 country with the corresponding entry stamp and duration of
13 stay annotation or an I-94W form.
14 (11) POLICY OR PRACTICE. A guiding

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Read #17

The snipped portion of the OP dealt with the employer aspect of the bill.

Of course I don't agree with the bolded portion of your post. Sorry for the confusion.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. Besides the (by itself, reasonable) business thing...

...it has the same ''papers please'' thinly-veiled racial profiling BS Arizona has.

Therefore, it's yet another right-wing turd.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. Big "could."

Any business twice cited for hiring illegal workers could lose its business license.

Attacking the employer is the right direction, though.

[RebelOne]

4. We now have the same law in Georgia. n/t

[pampango]

16. NYT Opinion: Obama should push harder against Georgia, Alabama, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/04/opinion/04sat1.html?_r=1

The president can push much harder against the noxious anti-immigrant laws proliferating in the national free-for-all. The administration sued to stop Arizona’s radical scheme. But Utah, Alabama, Indiana and Georgia are trying to do the same thing.

He can grant relief from deportation to young people who would have qualified for the Dream Act, a filibustered bill that grants legal status to the innocent undocumented who enter college or the military. He can do the same for workers who would qualify for the Power Act, a stalled bill that seeks to prevent employers from using the threat of deportation and immigration raids to retaliate against employees who press for their rights on the job.

He can resist Republican lawmakers who want mandatory nationwide use of E-Verify, a flawed hiring database, which would likely lead to thousands of Americans losing their job because of data errors. A December report by the Government Accountability Office warned that E-Verify is plagued by inaccurate records and vulnerable to identity theft and employer fraud.

[iamtechus]

5. It's just part of the big plan

Think of it not as driving aliens out of low paying jobs but as driving American workers into them.

[VA_Jill]

6. yeah, right

While I agree with going after the employers..........how many American workers are going to put up with the lousy salaries and worse conditions that these employers foist on the undocumented workers? Pretty dang few, I'd be willing to bet! In the town where I lived for 35 years there was a chicken processing plant. You could always tell, driving by at break time or shift change, who was on the bottom of the economic ladder. When we first moved there, it was poor whites. A few years later almost all the workers were African-American. Now they're all Hispanic. The place has been cited time after time for hiring illegals, but all they get is a slap on the wrist and they're back in business. They've also been cited for their working conditions and safety violations, same results. At least one worker has been killed on the job and several have been seriously injured. They provide no benefits and pay minimum wage. I don't think too many Americans would go for that......or for stoop labor in the fields for LESS than minimum wage and slavery-like conditions, or a number of other jobs of that kind. The firms that employ illegals aren't willing to pay a living wage or improve conditions so that legal residents will take the jobs. Until prosecution and *serious* punishment are a fact of life, these employers will continue to hire illegals and pay the laughable fines.

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. Let's see exactly big the illegal immigrant problem IS in Alabama, shall we?:

Bear in mind that Ala. has a total pop. of about 4 million.

[/

[customerserviceguy]

9. That map would be much more valuable

if it were proportionate. CA, TX, FL and NY all have large populations that may be better suited to dealing with the hidden costs of illegal immigration. Predominantly rural states are not so well equipped to pay the extra costs forced upon their hospital, law enforcement, and school systems.

[WatsonT]

12. But without illegals how can we drop wages, crush unions, and increase the profit margin

for big businesses?

[primavera]

14. Easy - outsource

That way, the country loses not only the jobs, but all of the taxes and secondary economic activity generated by immigrants, plus we have to give tax credits to the corporations that fire their US workers and move their operations offshore to third world sweatshops. It's a lose, lose, lose situation, but apparently preferable to having immigrants here.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. Prison labor works too. -nt

[primavera]

27. Yep, that's another good example...

... of a really bad policy that we will probably resort to - indeed are even discussing and already implementing to some degree - before we consider reallocating the nation's wealth out of the hands of a minuscule percentage of billionaires so that the remaining 90% of us who don't own 80% of the nation's wealth will be able to afford to feed ourselves without having to rely upon cheap labor. Unfortunately, since we show no sign whatsoever of being willing to do anything that sane, our options are limited to crappy ones and, of those crappy options, immigration is less crappy than outsourcing or labor camps.

[WatsonT]

29. Really?

So you're going to outsource construction to India? You're going to have your housework and maids in another country? You're going to pick lettuce here using workers in China?

The jobs they fill are largely un-outsourcable. You can send computer engineering work to India, but you can't have them build houses and roads over there and ship them here.

I love this argument: we can't get rid of illegals and replace them with people earning minimum wage, that would cripple industry!

And yet on threads about minimum wage: we should raise it because it won't affect industry that much and it would help Americans.

Which is it?

[underpants]

18. Exactly -when they start busting the fishing industry and chicken plants and agribusiness

coe talk to me

[CreekDog]

23. Education "Reform"

:eyes:

[pampango]

28. NYT: In Alabama, a Harsh Bill for Residents Here Illegally

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/04/us/04immig.html?_r=1

Alabama has passed a sweeping bill to crack down on illegal immigrants that both supporters and opponents call the toughest of its kind in the country, going well beyond a law Arizona passed last year that caused a furor there.

The measure was passed by large margins in the Alabama Senate and the House, both Republican-controlled, in votes on Thursday. Governor Robert Bentley, a Republican, is expected to sign the bill into law. “Alabama is now the new No. 1 state for immigration enforcement,” said Kris Kobach, a constitutional lawyer who is secretary of state in Kansas. He has helped write many state bills to curtail illegal immigration, including Alabama’s.

“This bill invites discrimination into every aspect of the lives of people in Alabama,” said Cecillia Wang, director of the immigrants’ rights project of the American Civil Liberties Union, which has brought legal challenges against several state immigration-control laws. Calling Alabama’s bill “outrageous and blatantly unconstitutional,” Ms. Wang said, “We will take action if the governor signs it.”

Alabama’s law includes some provisions similar to the Arizona statute that courts rejected as incursions on legal terrain reserved for the federal government. But Michael Hethmon, general counsel of the Immigration Reform Law Institute in Washington, said the Alabama bill was a compendium of measures against illegal immigrants that his group had tested in other states. Mr. Hethmon’s group is the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which seeks to reduce immigration.