College asked ATF about Loughner before rampage

[RamboLiberal]

Source: CBS News/AP

PHOENIX - Nearly three months before the assassination attempt on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords that left six people dead and 13 wounded, an Arizona college campus' police department asked a federal agency if Jared Lee Loughner had a gun.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told Pima Community College it didn't have any information on Loughner, the man charged in the January rampage.

The inquiry came to light from the trove of emails released by the college Thursday after The Arizona Republic sued the college for withholding some records mentioning Loughner.

The emails paint a portrait of school administrators trying to deal with a student whose behavior they described as "bizarre" and "intimidating" -- he had at least four contacts with campus police and was described as laughing and ranting inappropriately -- but who did not act in an overtly violent or threatening way.





Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/19/national/main20064455.shtml

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The emails: http://azdatapages.com/datacenter/jared-loughner-emails.html

[lib2DaBone]

1. Who were Loughner's recent visitors before the shooting?

Who taught him how to shoot the gun?

Who gave him what drugs.. Drugs that are NOT available on the open street?

TSK TSK TSK.. trivial details....

[PavePusher]

2. Pretty stupid question for police to ask...

simply because there is no federal registration of non-machine guns and "destructive devices".

So this is merely a puff-piece to try to make the school look better. Which in itself is somewhat silly, as the schools' option, given the circunstances, were so limited as to render them virtually powerless. It's not their fault.

[boppers]

5. Yeah, but they didn't *know* if he had a license for a machine gun or other explosives.

It's on page 249, after they put up notices to call police immediately if he's seen on Campus again.

[slackmaster]

3. Story does not pass the smell test

Even campus police would (or should) know that the ATF doesn't have that kind of record for any ordinary firearm, i.e. one not registered as required by the National Firearms Act (machineguns, sound suppressors, short-barreled shotguns, etc.)

[boppers]

6. How could campus police find out if he had a license for a machine gun?

Who could they contact?

Might there be some federal agency for that?

The context that the story misses (though it's found in emails) is that people were scared shitless off him. To kick him out of school, they had officers go to his house, so it wouldn't happen on school property.

[slackmaster]

10. I'm not aware of any process or procedure for doing that unless one has a court order

The contents of the NFA registry is not information the government publishes.

[boppers]

13. It was an LEO->LEO contact, IIRC.

Not an issue of searching public databases.

[slackmaster]

17. They still need a warrant

That's the law.

[boppers]

18. Athanasio P Viahouls at usdoj.gov didn't mention one.

He responded with "I did not come up with any gun info on this guy. Let me know if you need anything else", to Detective Shad Pace's request. Pages 249-251.

[underpants]

7. a. they were covering their asses b. the ATF and other orgs are still rife with W hires

c. ATF dropped the ball

I would think the most likely reason for this is in exactly that order

[PavePusher]

9. Much as I hate the BATFE, there is nothing they could do in this case.

They can't look up if someone bought a gun, because there is no place to do that.

They could possibly have checked to see if he owned a registered machine gun, but his public profile, both economic and interaction-with-LEO-wise, make it pretty much impossible that he could have bought one through legal channels.

The ATF is blameless on this one. It's the school trying to cover their ass, unneccesarily, as I stated previously. Which only serves to make them look stupid.

[boppers]

14. Well, the story itself is pretty lame.

I've read all the emails (why, for the love of god, do people top-post and forward the WHOLE DAMN PRIOR EMAIL.... but I digress)... and the OP story talks about asking the ATF if Loughner had a gun, when the actual email in question itself asks if there are any federal law enforcement records on him, with a response that an ATF check turned up negative.

As far as the school covering it's ass, you can read through the emails and see lots of repeated efforts to make sure *every* base was covered. The ATF was a footnote.

[CreekDog]

12. because gun advocates don't want any tracking of any sort

[boppers]

15. Well, if there's a tracking database, when we're invaded by Cuba and Mexico....

...they'll use it to track down and arrest gun owners.

I know it's true because I saw it in a movie.

[slackmaster]

16. False as to fact. There IS tracking and few people object to it.

Every new gun sold since 1968 has information about the buyer recorded on paper. A gun that has been found at a crime scene can always be traced to the original retail purchaser. The chain of ownership of a gun can be traced by interviewing each known owner in sequence. It takes a little shoe leather, but that what cops are paid to do.

College officials (and police) in a free society should never be permitted to go on fishing expeditions.

[boppers]

4. Page 4: He Purchased "Logic for Dummies" for his class.

I wonder if he passed...

[wordpix]

8. is ATF like BushCo's MMS, EPA et. al?

MMS: ocean protection as fox: guarding henhouse
EPA: environmental protection: fox: henhouse

ATF: firearms protection as fox: henhouse?

[slackmaster]

11. Bush's ATF allowed guns to be illegally exported to Mexico

And Obama's ATF hasn't stopped it yet.

[provis99]

19. there wouldn't be any legal justification for keeping him from a gun.

After all, he wasn't a violent felon, and he hadn't been committed. That gives him the right to buy any gun he wants in Arizona.

[boppers]

20. ...and that's the problem.

People who are obviously unstable aren't forbidden from purchasing weaponry *until* they've done something horrid.