Federal worker pensions emerge as target in debt-reduction talks

[alp227]

Source: The Washington Post

The generous pension system enjoyed by millions of federal workers from clerks to senators and judges has emerged as a key target in negotiations between Vice President Biden and congressional leaders looking to restrain the growing national debt.

Republicans have proposed saving more than $120 billion over the next decade by requiring the civilian workforce to contribute more toward retirement — a plan that would effectively impose an immediate 5 percent pay cut on more than 2 million federal employees. President Obama’s bipartisan fiscal commission has also endorsed the idea, calling the federal system “out of line” with the private sector.

Now, administration officials have expressed interest in raising the amount that employees contribute to their pensions — though probably not as high as the GOP proposal, definitely not as fast and possibly not for all workers, according to people in both parties familiar with the discussions.

If adopted as part of a compromise plan to control federal borrowing, the proposal promises to test the resolve of local lawmakers — particularly Democrats — by forcing them to choose between the lofty goal of debt reduction and the interests of public-sector workers, who have come under fire from Republicans in Washington and several state capitals.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/federal-worker-pensions-emerge-as-target-in-debt-reduction-talks/2011/05/14/AFkqTj3G_singlePage.html

[msongs]

1. so are these nuts going to cut the military, the biggest welfare scheme on the planet? nt

[Pharaoh]

2. But Fuck! Don't tax the Rich or Corporations!

Death by a thousand cuts is their plan.

[intheflow]

38. Or cut the Pentagon budget.

We totally need to redesign our bombers so we can illegally invade more countries better, stronger and faster. x(

[defendandprotect]

3. kr

[Autumn]

4. This will not go over well

:banghead: WTF I don't get this at all. K/R

[Downwinder]

5. Just take it away from the ones in prison, like SS.

[QC]

6. Is there any Republican meme that this administration is not eager to validate?

Lazy, incompetent teachers: check.

Drill, baby, drill: check.

Overpaid government workers with their lavish pensions: check.

Did I miss any?

[rpannier]

16. Obama said he love to give more tax cuts so people could hire more workers

[QC]

23. Oh yes, how could I forget that one?

Tax cuts create jobs because they keep the heroic rich from going Galt!

[No Elephants]

26. Tax cuts have now been in effect more than ten years. Where are all the jobs these tax cuts created

[alarimer]

39. They created jobs, all right: in India and China

In the US, not so much.

[maxrandb]

41. Correction

Tax cuts, with the exception of a brief period of prosperity under President Clinton, have been in effect for 30 years. In fact, if you want to sum up the Republican economic plan in one statement, it would be "Tax Cut Forever".

Remarkably, the decline of all things Americans once enjoyed, like decent wages, workplace rights, affordable education, financial security, state of the art infrastructure, state of the art research and development, public education that was the envy of the entire world, etc...you can trace the start of that decline to around 1980-1981.

Hmmmmm, WTF happened during that time-frame.

[No Elephants]

27. The nation can't afford Medicare, esp. Part D. Calling programs "entitlements,'

as in "What a jerk. He has such a sense of entitlement."

I'm sure there are more.

[mountainlion55]

34. Holy Jeebus

How about 36 billion for nuke subsidies!:smoke:

[PSPS]

7. "calling the federal system 'out of line' with the private sector."

Republicans have proposed saving more than $120 billion over the next decade by requiring the civilian workforce to contribute more toward retirement — a plan that would effectively impose an immediate 5 percent pay cut on more than 2 million federal employees. President Obama’s bipartisan fiscal commission has also endorsed the idea, calling the federal system "out of line" with the private sector.

No, it's the "private sector" that is "out of line."

Another swoosh by obama's cat food commission.

[Iris]

8. +100

[Downwinder]

9. Thats what the Bankruptcy Courts show when they allow companies

to walk away from their retirement contracts. Ought to make me feel good to see some Federal Judges get shafted. But it doesn't

[Thor_MN]

21. out of line

The only reason it is "out of line" is that they hav beaten the hell out of people and depressed wages sp much that government jobs now are better considering the entire benefits package. Once upon a time, if you want security, and were willing to sacrifce wages, you got a government job. If you wanted higher pay, you went to the private sector.

Now, by forcing wages down with work visas, outsourcing, layoffs to scare people into working unpaid hours, they have depressed wages to the point that government jobs can pay more. Add in the benefits and goverment jobs loo pretty good. Their solution? Start beating the crap out of government workers so they can take the next step after, and attack the private sector more. Lather, rinse, repeat.

These damn corporations need to be broken up.

[Enrique]

24. and our private sector wages are out of line

with Bangladesh's private sector wages. Better do something about that.

[No Elephants]

25. Plenty's been done about that and is continuing to be done.

For one thing, sending jobs that were once done here to Bangladesh or some place like it.

For another thing, unemployment. People now need jobs so badly, they'll work 2 and 3v low paying jobs to make ends meet.

For another thing, public sector employees are being attacked six ways to Sunday, as are their collective bargaining rights--which, in the end, will hurt Democrats because unions are the single biggest group that contributes to Democrats.

I could go on, but what's the point?

It's the plutonomy, baby!

[StarsInHerHair]

10. military spending is THE major source for deficit & tax hand-outs 4 the rich

get rid of the tax hand-outs, cut military gluttony.....zero deficit

[former9thward]

11. We need to do what the UK is doing -- cut Defense.

The UK is cutting their Defense budget by 8% and their military by 10%. We should match that and more.

[Hugin]

12. Welcome to the Human race to the bottom. n/t

[Hugin]

14. "generous pension system"

There's a laugh, under FERS after Reagan got done with it only amounts to essentially a 401(k) with SS and not much else.

[CountAllVotes]

18. my late mother was a Federal retiree

She was a retired mail room clerk. Her pension, after 20 years of service was >$800.00 a month. Being she did not pay much into SS prior to her Federal employment, all she got from them was a paltry $120.00 a month after Medicare was taken out of her check.

She believed that SS would be long gone by the time she retired which was in 1985. She was wrong wasn't she? She believed the bullsh*t which is the same bullsh*t we are now hearing.

When my father passed away she was not able to collect his SS being she was a Federal retiree. They have since time changed that law (too late for her however).

So, after working her entire life she received >$1,000.00 a month.

That is "generous". :wtf:

It used to be that when you quit a Federal job you could collect the money that you paid into their pension system. However, when Reagun was re-elected, this changed. Now you cannot collect the money you pay into their system until you are 65 years old if you are lucky enough to live that long.

New Federal workers pay into FERP (the Federal Employees Retirement System) as well as Social Security so it is a double hit.

As for the fantastic health benefits, I suppose they could be great if you have the $$$ to pay for the good ones. My mother had Kaiser most of her life and when she got sick and required care at a nursing home for the terminally ill, the insurance paid out nothing, not even the bed side toilet.

It sickens me the way they are demonizing the Federal worker. Many are not any better off than my late mother was; worked for many years in low paying jobs with poor benefits (being it was unaffordable for persons in jobs like she had) and collect next to nothing when you retire unless you were lucky enough to land a fatty job with good pay. Such jobs seemed few and far between was my experience as I too worked for the Federal government and I can attest to all of the above statements being I have been there and done that for 10 years of my life.

As far as Social Security goes, it appears that I never worked any of those 10 years except for the time I was temporary/term. This was for about 1-1/2 years out of the 10. I feel like I wasted the best years of my life working for paltry wages as low as a GS-2 which was an annual salary of >$6,000.00 a year. I did this from 1975-1985. I got out when Reagun was re-elected as I believed his threats to go after the pension system were for real and hence I got the hell out of the Federal employment system which sucks IMO.

These are facts, not fiction.

:kick: & recommend!



I wonder how many people are aware of this? It seems few if any. :grr:

:kick:

[Hugin]

31. Makes me wonder which "advisors" have Biden's ear.

Strip away all of the Political Football catch phrases and Corporatist Talking Points and FERS is exactly the same plan as is given to Wal-mart employees. I know because I helped someone work through theirs earlier this year.

Also, there is that portion of the above article which tries to justify the need for these "reforms" based on the fact that several States are doing similar to their employees... Not only is this circular reasoning, but, SOMEBODY needs to point out to Joe that there are RECALLS happening in most of these States for precisely this reason.

[BumRushDaShow]

32. +1,000,000

Wish I could rec your post (come from a similar situation).

The WP's loaded terminology of "generous" (and continually repeating the DINO organization's use of that term) is pure BULLSHIT! Especially with them lumping "Senators" in with the rank and file civilian civil service. As it is, they forgot the fact that fed wages had fallen so far behind the private sector that congress passed the http://www.opm.gov/feddata/html/paystructure/2004/fepca1990.asp">Federal Employees Pay Comparability Act of 1990 to institute locality pay in order to try to close the gap. Problem was, during the Clinton years, much of the locality pay was never enacted because of a "fiscal emergency". The caveat being that it would happen "gradually" (over a 14 year period). Clinton eliminated 250,000 government workers and the gov't managed to achieve a budget SURPLUS (to hand over to Shrub), Clinton continued to claim that there was a "fiscal emergency", and didn't want to implement the Act. Ultimately, the unions had to go after him to finally get a locality pay adjustment. Enter Shrub and the gutting continued - A76 and contracting out a huge % of the administrative functioning and even replacing inherently governmental functions (which they reclassified) to contractors. They typical gov't professional was now doing their own administrative functions in addition to their assigned work.

Agree that few are aware of much of what has occurred with gov't workers over the past 25 years since Raygun gutted the civil service, including the fledgling attempts to equalize fed and private pay. The lazy media tends to leave these facts out as well as leaving out what private industry (big biz mostly) divvied out including what they once called the "fringe benefits" (fully paid health insurance with full coverage for things such as vision/dental, yearly huge bonuses - often in the 10s of thousands for professionals, etc). The fact that corporations gambled away and/or skimmed too much off their corporate bottom lines to feed the top (forcing them to slash their own employees' wages/benefits) should NOT be the litmus test for what the feds should do with their functions -given a past history of repukes and DINOs screwing the fed employees. It makes me sick. :banghead:

[liberalhistorian]

13. I'm sure that Congress will do the right thing and include

their own generous salaries and numerous, almost-free perks and benefits paid for by the taxpayers, the majority of whom do not have and will never have such salaries, benefits and perks, in their relentless cost-cutting, slashing and burning. After all, THEY are federal workers in the public sector, too.

Oh, wait.....

I'd better not hold my breath waiting for that, huh?

[No Elephants]

28. Congressional compensation is constitutionally protected, so, yes, don't hold your breath.

[SoapBox]

15. As long as any reductions START with CON-gress first!

Sure!

Cut your own cushy situation! And then lets wait several years and see how much it helps.

...don't start with the little guy.

[No Elephants]

29. Please see reply 28.

[SoapBox]

37. The the GOBPers, RushThugs and T.HATERbaggers in CON-gress, should be all in favor of...

changing the Constitution to reduce and eliminate their pay and benefits!

They are all about the Constitution "stuff" so they should be all lining up to change it...right?

...oh, guess not so much.

[Joe Bacon]

17. I already pay 7% of my salary to Civil Service Retirement

And now these clowns want me to pay DOUBLE that amount for a LOWER PENSION?????

That's on top of the 5 year pay freeze they stuck me with!!!!!

And the Democrats are signing off on this????

If they sell me out, I'm gone...

[CountAllVotes]

19. I don't blame you

I got out (see above post) in 1985. The writing was on the wall at that time. For those loyal employees that opted to stick around and hope for the best, well this is what they get.

If it comes to it and you find that you need to get out, I wish you the best and that you find a good job that appreciates you instead of a job that is viewed by too many fools out there to be a "cushy" job. Cushy job my ass! This is totally f'd up for all Federal employees in the boat that most people that work for them are in. :(

:kick:

[BumRushDaShow]

33. I tell my co-workers

anyone who is eligible to retire - GO! The "high 3" will apparently be a thing of the past. I am considering if they start authorizing early outs (i.e., VERA) -preferably with no penalty and would jump up and down for buyout.

[CountAllVotes]

36. good advice!

Get the hell out while you can and take what you can get! Don't wait around and work to hopefully have more when you retire as the way this is going, it won't be there! :thumbsup: to you and your advice to your co-workers!!

:kick:

[BlueMTexpat]

20. Increase taxes on the GD f***king one percent!

And have corporations pay in their fair share.

It's as simple as that.

The GOP: Apologists for the least needy. The rest be damned, according to them.

[Enrique]

22. and what did the GOP give up in exchange for this concession?

let me guess: not a damn thing.

[No Elephants]

30. So far, it's all talk, but the alleged Republican power is raising the debt ceiling.

IMO, it's like extending unemployment benefits. Take something the Republicans know they have to do anyway--like extending unemployment or raising the debt ceiling--and bargain with them with something you want to do anwyway--like extending tax cuts or cutting things like federal pensions and/or "entitlements."


Republicans get to claim they extracted stuff from Obama and Obama gets to blame the Republicans for stuff he wanted done anyway.
And Democrats in Congress go along.

[Omaha Steve]

35. Torpedo the boat and there is no rising tide

"Rising tide lifts all boats" in reverse.

K&R!

As they say on my own Cape Cod, a rising tide lifts all the boats. And a partnership, by definition, serves both partners, without domination or unfair advantage.
<1963 J. F. Kennedy Address 25 June in Public Papers of Presidents of U.S. (1964) 519>

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/a-rising-tide-lifts-all-boats-1#ixzz1MREG9q3s

[StarsInHerHair]

40. EVERYTHING but THE SPENDING & TAX CUTS THAT caused THE DEFICIT!!

The thing is: even if they completely destroyed every social program in the U.S.-would that even come close to closing the huge hole caused by tax hand-outs to the richest & out of control blind spending on anything military? I don't think it would. But I know what this austerity slice 'em dice 'em does mean-destroying the quality of life, reducing the First World to Third World; anything, so long as the Banksters are rich......because any society just won't work without too big to fail Banksters who refuse to lend to pretty much everyone but themselves.