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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:16 PM
Original message
WikiLeaks cable: DeMint caused stir on Honduras trip
Source: McClatchy Newspapers

Monday, May. 02, 2011
WikiLeaks cable: DeMint caused stir on Honduras trip
By JAMES ROSEN - McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — Jim DeMint was the only U.S. senator to visit Honduras during its 2009 constitutional crisis, but U.S. Embassy officials, angered by what they saw as his meddling in the standoff, gave the South Carolina Republican’s arrival only a terse mention in their cable to Washington.

The cable was among those on U.S. officials’ travel abroad obtained by McClatchy Newspapers from WikiLeaks, the controversial, self-described “nonprofit media organization” that in the past year has released tens of thousands of U.S. diplomatic documents in defiance of government secrecy laws.

~snip~
DeMint, accompanied by three other GOP House members, arrived in the Honduran capital of Tegucigalpa on Oct. 2, 2009, three-plus months after Honduran soldiers had whisked away President Mel Zelaya in his pajamas in a predawn raid.

DeMint backed Zelaya’s interim successor, Roberto Micheletti. When President Barack Obama froze U.S. aid and insisted Zelaya be restored to power, DeMint blocked the president’s nominations to fill two senior State Department posts for Latin America.

Read more: http://www.thestate.com/2011/05/02/1801447/wikileaks-cable-demint-caused.html
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interfering in foreign policy and undermining democracy what a scumbag.
Thanks for the thread, Judi Lynn.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. A long-standing Republican tradition.
Going back at least as long as Nixon's interference in the Paris Peace Talks in the fall of '68.
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Was Zelaya supposed to be a 'good guy'?
He wanted to change the constitution illegally to enable him to continue as president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_crisis

Substitute Nixon for Zelaya, and read the following:

The President of the Congress, Micheletti, observed that Article 374 of the constitution states that no referendum can be used to alter the entrenched articles in the constitution that are specified in article 384.<73> He went on to insist that even to announce such a referendum privately is a crime (" . . . porque eso, incluso, anunciarlo privadamente es un delito.")

Article 373 of the Constitution of Honduras states that the constitution can be modified by a two-thirds majority of the National Congress. Article 374, however, specifies that several articles are permanently entrenched; that is, they cannot be modified under any circumstances (Spanish: "en ningún caso"). The entrenched clauses include those on the system of government that is permitted, and the presidential succession. Article 239 specifically prohibits the president from attempting to amend restrictions on succession, and states that whoever does so will cease "immediately" in his or her functions.

"On 25 March, the Attorney General's office formally notified President Zelaya that he would face criminal charges of abusing power if he proceeded with the referendum.

In late May the court of contentious administration ruled the poll illegal. Honduras’ Supreme Electoral Tribunal also ruled that such a poll would be illegal. The lower court's injunction, against the poll, was upheld by the Supreme Court. In late June the intended consultative poll was also rejected by Congress.

On June 3, Congress passed a resolution warning Zelaya to correct his administrative conduct.

On June 11, the Bar Association of Honduras unanimously agreed that Zelaya was violating the law. It asked Zelaya to stop the illegalities and recommended officials not follow his illegal orders.

On 23 June 2009, Congress passed a law forbidding holding official polls or referenda less than 180 days before the next general election, which would have made the 28 June poll illegal. Since this bill was passed after the poll was scheduled, Zelaya rejected its applicability to this case.

The military is in charge of security and logistics in elections in Honduras. Zelaya asked them to perform their election role for the poll, but the head of the military command, General Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, refused the order to pass out the poll materials because the Supreme Court had ruled the poll to be illegal. On 24 June Zelaya fired him. Later that day, the defense minister and heads of the army, navy and air force resigned. On 25 June the Supreme Court ruled 5-0 that General Velásquez be reinstated. Tribunal member David Matamoros affirmed the Electoral Tribunal’s support for the military's actions.

On June 24, surveillance cameras captured how about $2 million in cash was withdrawn from the Central Bank of Honduras and allegedly driven to the office of Enrique Flores Lanza, Zelaya's chief of staff. The suspicious money was possibly used to finance the referendum.

Ballots arrived from Venezuela on a plane and the ballot boxes were kept at the Tegucigalpa airport. The Supreme Electoral Tribunal ordered the illegal ballots to be confiscated. Investigators from the Ministerio Público and the Honduran attorney general's office arrived at the airport.

Zelaya led several hundred people to an air force base and took possession of the disputed poll ballots, which were then kept in the presidential palace to avoid their destruction."


----
Honduras had a constitutional crisis, instigated by a President bent on retaining power. There can a lot of reasons to not like DeMint, but as a U.S. Senator he has a role in foreign policy. Calling the removal of Zelaya a coup strikes me as bullshit.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. No, he DIDN'T want "to change the constitution illegally to enable him to continue as president."
The truth has been know for a long time by now. Discussed and settled here long ago, your Wikipedia notwithstanding.

~~~~~

July 1, 2009
Behind the Honduran Coup
Why Zelaya's Actions Were Legal
By ALBERTO VALLENTE THORENSEN

~snip~
...most reports have stated that Manuel Zelaya was ousted from his country’s presidency after he tried to carry out a non-binding referendum to extend his term in office. But this is not completely accurate. Such presentation of “facts” merely contributes to legitimizing the propaganda, which is being employed by the coup-makers in Honduras to justify their actions. This interpretation is widespread in US-American liberal environments, especially after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the coup is unacceptable, but that “all parties have a responsibility to address the underlying problems that led to ’s events.” However, President Zelaya cannot be held responsible for this flagrant violation of the Honduran democratic institutions that he has tried to expand. This is what has actually happened:

The Honduran Supreme Court of Justice, Attorney General, National Congress, Armed Forces and Supreme Electoral Tribunal have all falsely accused Manuel Zelaya of attempting a referendum to extend his term in office.

According to Honduran law, this attempt would be illegal. Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution clearly states that persons, who have served as presidents, cannot be presidential candidates again. The same article also states that public officials who breach this article, as well as those that help them, directly or indirectly, will automatically lose their immunity and are subject to persecution by law. Additionally, articles 374 and 5 of the Honduran Constitution of 1982 (with amendments of 2005), clearly state that: “it is not possible to reform the Constitution regarding matters about the form of government, presidential periods, re-election and Honduran territory”, and that “reforms to article 374 of this Constitution are not subject to referendum.”

Nevertheless, this is far from what President Zelaya attempted to do in Honduras the past Sunday and which the Honduran political/military elites disliked so much. President Zelaya intended to perform a non-binding public consultation, about the conformation of an elected National Constituent Assembly. To do this, he invoked article 5 of the Honduran “Civil Participation Act” of 2006. According to this act, all public functionaries can perform non-binding public consultations to inquire what the population thinks about policy measures. This act was approved by the National Congress and it was not contested by the Supreme Court of Justice, when it was published in the Official Paper of 2006. That is, until the president of the republic employed it in a manner that was not amicable to the interests of the members of these institutions.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/thorensen07012009.html

~~~~~

Even the George W Bush puppet, Cuban "exile" ambassador Hugo Llorens admitted the charge of wanting to extend his own term is a supposition. (You sail right past the reality that any referendum from the public on reworking their own constitution wouldn't begin until LONG after the election happened, and Zelaya had been gone from office a long time. Any clown should realize that much, if he's sober. It wouldn't have affected his own Presidency.)

~~~

Wikileaks published one cable from Llorens which addresses his "take" on the subject:

Wikileaks US Diplomatic Cable
Honduran Coup "Illegal and Unconstitutional"

By Ambassador Hugo Llorens

~snip~
(SBU) Defenders of the June 28 coup have offered some
combination of the following, often ambiguous, arguments to
assert it's legality:

-- Zelaya had broken the law (alleged but not proven);

-- Zelaya resigned (a clear fabrication);

-- Zelaya intended to extend his term in office
(supposition);

-- Had he been allowed to proceed with his June 28
constitutional reform opinion poll, Zelaya would have
dissolved Congress the following day and convened a
constituent assembly (supposition);

-- Zelaya had to be removed from the country to prevent a
bloodbath;

-- Congress "unanimously" (or in some versions by a 123-5
vote) deposed Zelaya; (after the fact and under the cloak
of secrecy); and

-- Zelaya "automatically" ceased to be president the moment
he suggested modifying the constitutional prohibition on
presidential reelection.

¶4. (C) In our view, none of the above arguments has any
substantive validity under the Honduran constitution. Some
are outright false. Others are mere supposition or ex-post
rationalizations of a patently illegal act. Essentially:

-- the military had no authority to remove Zelaya from the
country;

-- Congress has no constitutional authority to remove a
Honduran president;

-- Congress and the judiciary removed Zelaya on the basis
of a hasty, ad-hoc, extralegal, secret, 48-hour process;

-- the purported "resignation" letter was a fabrication and
was not even the basis for Congress's action of June 28;
and

-- Zelaya's arrest and forced removal from the country
violated multiple constitutional guarantees, including the
prohibition on expatriation, presumption of innocence and
right to due process.

More:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26933.htm
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. did he say,
"The only position in Honduras that cannot be reelected is the president. But, reelection will be a topic of the coming National Constitutional Assembly."

When "The Honduran Supreme Court of Justice, Attorney General, National Congress, Armed Forces and Supreme Electoral Tribunal" all think you're trying to set yourself up as President for Life, maybe there is something to it...

I will never claim to be an expert on Honduran politics, but when he has Chavez (who also removed restrictive term limits on the President in his own country) shipping him the ballots, it stinks.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The ballots as DU'ers discussed long ago, were printed by a COMPANY in Venezuela, not by Chavez,
they didn't have a thing to do with the Venezuelan government.

You are desperate, like the professional liars who wrote all the crap you've swallowed.
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. So did he say it, or not?
you didn't answer. But don't bother, it's on video for anyone to see...

The supreme court, the Congress (including members of his party), the military (whom he tried to fire for not bending to his will when the courts said what he was doing wasn't legal), and the attorney general feared he was trying to set himself up to run again as president.

Not everyone has the decency to follow Washington's Cincinnatian example and relinquish power once attained. It's why we had to modify our own Constitution to prevent a cycle of 'President for life'.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Democracy doesn't always produce a "good guy," but it's up to the
people of said nation to resolve the issue not some maverick Senator from the U.S. stepping on the President and State Department's feet.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. The right took the effort to put an OPINION that Zelaya created went against the Constitution
Edited on Mon May-02-11 07:13 PM by karynnj
in the Library of Congress. It was widely discredited in South America, but the Library of Congress rejected Representative Berman, who then chaired the House Foreign Relations committee and Kerry, who chairs the senate one to remove it - because they claimed that was censorship. They asked for it as the right was using the fact that it was there in the online version to provide a reputable looking link to the opinion.

The fact is that it was a coup. The Organization of American States (OAS) called it this - as did Obama when it happened - in addition, Kerry and Berman both called it a coup.

Remember it is VERY risky to use Wikipedia on political things. Pages get edited all the time - all those the most contentious one are locked from changes (I think). Here, the right obviously has fought to rewrite history here.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I had missed that detail before, and it makes Obama look better.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't there a name for it when a U.S. citizen interferes in the President's international affairs?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Traitor? Nt
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. DeMint isn't just a 'U.S. citizen'
he's a U.S. SENATOR.

There are U.S. international affairs, not 'President's international affairs'.

Congress is the primary branch of the federal government.

"He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors"


Do you think members of Congress are to be restricted to the U.S. without providing input on U.S. international affairs?!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. See my post below
Even Senators are not allowed to negotiate with foreign governments unless authorized by the US government.

The Administration has the last word with all foreign relations.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. There's a difference between "providing input" and undermining U.S. policy. n/t
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The Logan Act
Edited on Mon May-02-11 06:26 PM by Canuckistanian
The Logan Act is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. It was passed in 1799 and last amended in 1994. Violation of the Logan Act is a felony, punishable under federal law with imprisonment of up to three years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

I remember that from Charlie Wilson's War
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. and it has been used against
Congressmen exactly how many times? :rolleyes:
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. The President can now have
American citizens indefinitely incarcerated or even killed if thinks they are a threat to national security or collaborate with terrorists. Just a thought. :smoke:
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orangeapple Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Why don't we just start
jailing legislators and anyone else that disagrees with the President?

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier... ...just so long as I'm the dictator ."
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. It is a dictatorship.
A plutocracy actually, and it is one hell of a lot easier to rule without too much pretense at governance now that our annoying Constitution is out of the way. Don't you think? :evilgrin:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. He went after Kerry refused both SFRC approaval and funding
He was not on the subcommittee that dealt with South America and - as noted, he was actively against the President's foreign policy. The right that objected to Pelosi, Kerry and Dodd even listening to Syria's leader in a visit - even though Dodd pointed out that he and Kerry solicited and got questions from Condi Rice to ask - and Kerry chaired the Middle and Near East subcommittee - and of course they had Biden's approval.

DeMint was able to get approval and funding via the Department of Defense.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. Interesting aspect Democrats here might want to consider:
You may recall Zelaya had been planning to change the airbase at Palmerola (Soto Cano) back to civilian use. They had been forced to deal mainly with their main base in Tegucigalpa which is the SECOND MOST DANGEROUS AIRPORT IN THE WORLD. As you may remember, big planes go down there frequently with devastating results.

You may also recall John Negroponte was Reagan's ambassador in Honduras, a P.O.S. who lied about the Honduran US-trained death squads torturing and murdering Hondurans relentlessly, even slaughtering US nuns working in Honduras.

Not long before the coup, Negroponte showed up to tell Zelaya he'd better forget his plans for returning Honduras' badly needed airport to civilian use, as Ecuador's Rafael Correa had accomplished already in his country, with Manta Air Base:


Zelaya, Negroponte and the Controversy at Soto Cano
The Coup and the U.S. Airbase in Honduras
By Nikolas Kozloff

~snip~
Throwing fuel on the fire Assistant Secretary of State John Negroponte, a former U.S. ambassador to Honduras, said that Honduras could not transform Palmerola into a civilian airport “from one day to the next.” In Tegucigalpa, Negroponte met with Zelaya to discuss Palmerola. Speaking later on Honduran radio the U.S. diplomat said that before Zelaya could embark on his plans for Palmerola the airport would have to receive international certification for new incoming flights. According to Spanish news agency EFE Negroponte also took advantage of his Tegucigalpa trip to sit down and meet with the President of the Honduran Parliament and future coup leader Roberto Micheletti .

Needless to say Negroponte’s visit to Honduras was widely repudiated by progressive and human rights activists who labeled Negroponte “an assassin” and accused him of being responsible for forced disappearances during the diplomat’s tenure as ambassador (1981-1985). Moreover, Ford and Negroponte’s condescending attitude irked organized labor, indigenous groups and peasants who demanded that Honduras reclaim its national sovereignty over Palmerola. “It’s necessary to recover Palmerola because it’s unacceptable that the best airstrip in Central America continues to be in the hands of the U.S. military,” said Carlos Reyes, leader of the Popular Bloc which included various politically progressive organizations. “The Cold War has ended and there are no pretexts to continue with the military presence in the region,” he added. The activist remarked that the government should not contemplate swapping Mosquitia for Palmerola either as this would be an affront to Honduran pride.

Over the next year Zelaya sought to convert Palmerola into a civilian airport but plans languished when the government was unable to attract international investors. Finally in 2009 Zelaya announced that the Honduran armed forces would undertake construction. To pay for the new project the President would rely on funding from ALBA and Petrocaribe, two reciprocal trading agreements pushed by Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez. Predictably the Honduran right leapt on Zelaya for using Venezuelan funds. Amílcar Bulnes, President of the Honduran Business Association said that Petrocaribe funds should not be used for the airport but rather for other, unspecified needs.

A couple weeks after Zelaya announced that the armed forces would proceed with construction at Palmerola the military rebelled. Led by Romeo Vásquez, the army overthrew Zelaya and deported him out of the country. In the wake of the coup U.S. peace activists visited Palmerola and were surprised to find that the base was busy and helicopters were flying all around. When activists asked American officials if anything had changed in terms of the U.S.-Honduran relationship they were told “no, nothing.”

More:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23123.htm
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. JIm DeMint is lower than whale shit on the bottom of the ocean....
"I think healthcare is a priviledge. I wouldn't call it a right." Jim DeMint, POS-South Carolina
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