Crashed U.S. Helicopter in Flames in Iraq

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040413/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_helicopter&cid=540&ncid=1480

FALLUJAH, Iraq - A U.S. Apache helicopter was seen by an Associated Press reporter burning on the ground outside Fallujah on Tuesday, and witnesses said it was hit by a rocket from the ground. There was no immediate word on casualties.


The helicopter was in flames on the ground 12 miles east of Fallujah near the village of Zawbaa.


U.S. troops who converged on the site were attacked by gunmen, the reporter said. There was no immediate U.S. military comment.

more

[dbt]

1. IRAQ NAM.

And, by the way, it's 1-2-3, what are we fighting for?

:freak:
dbt

[caledesi]

18. Country Joe and the Fish Lives....

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Iraqi-nam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

[saigon68]

22. PRICELESS--- we used to sing this.

Along with going back to the world. San Francisco by Scott McKenzie

I can't imagine those who are being forced to go back to Iraq-Nam for a second time are re-enlisting in mass numbers.

[0007]

2. Is the Apache helicopter the flying tank?

[pinniped]

3. Yes, they are heavily laden with ordnance.

n/t

[leftchick]

5. There are 2 crew members too..

Is that correct?

[pinniped]

9. yes.

n/t

[Judi Lynn]

4. This was the same kind of helicopter downed a couple of days ago, also

wasn't it?

I didn't see any more written about that one at all. No news. Nada.
Don't know if the people on board were kidnapped, killed, or what.

I can't believe it's been such a short time since we all saw the dead soldiers' number go over 500. Last night I read it's 671. Unbelievable.

[leftchick]

7. They were both Killed on Sunday....

I can't believe the media is not running with the two missing US Soldiers from that convoy on Friday. Wait, yes I can... :(

[JCMach1]

8. This says to me maintenance is breaking down and crews

are flying missions way too often.

Expect more of the above as long as the pressure is on...

[mobuto]

20. There is no such thing as a flying tank

I think the closest you'll come is an A-10. Apaches may be heavily armed, but they can also be shot down very easily -- including by small arms fire.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. AC-130

Flying battery- high caliber machine guns and cannon. Closest candidate for flying tank.

on edit: Thanks for the correct designation bob!

[bobthedrummer]

26. AC-130 is an aerial artillery base that can orbit real slowly, that's a

fixed wing tank imo.

[tkmorris]

6. It's true then

I have suspected this. The Iraqi rebels (insurgents? freedom fighters? patriots?) have an outside source of weaponry and have acquired SAMS in sufficient quantity to be dangerous. SOMETHING has certainly been keeping our close air support subdued, nothing else makes sense. If the choppers can't fly we have a problem folks, a big one.

[leftchick]

14. I saw some wonded soldiers in Germany interviewed...

on msrnc Sunday. They pretty much confirm what you are saying, that these rebels have good weapons, money and cars from somewhere!

[Judi Lynn]

10. Thanks, leftchick, and JCMach1, for the info. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

11. Aljazeerah article on the latest Apache helicopter crash

Apache Downed, Crew Killed

Naseer Al-Nahr

Arab News

BAGHDAD, 12 April 2004 — A US Apache helicopter was downed during fighting in western Baghdad yesterday and its two crewmembers killed, and shootings that wounded two Americans shook a fragile truce between resistance fighters and US Marines in the besieged city of Fallujah.

Smoke rose on Baghdad’s western edge where the AH-64 Apache helicopter was shot down by ground fire in the morning. More helicopters circled overhead while US troops closed off the main highway — a key supply route into the capital.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt told a news briefing that the two-member crew was killed and a quick-reaction team was collecting the bodies.

Heavy firing was heard, and tanks and Humvees moved into the area near the suburb of Abu Gharib, where masked gunmen have wreaked havoc for the past three days, attacking fuel convoys and blowing up tanker trucks. On Friday resistance fighters kidnapped an American civilian and killed a US soldier in the area.
(snip/...)

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2004%20News%20archives/April/12n/Apache%20Downed,%20Crew%20Killed.htm

[MaineDem]

17. Kimmet spoke about the two from the other day

Did he mention another two today??

[mainer]

37. Is this the same chopper? It's an MH-54 "unknown # casualties"

A US MH-53 helicopter has crashed southeast of Falluja and marines who rushed to secure the crash site came under attack and sustained casualties.



A Marine officer said it was not known how many people were aboard the helicopter, which can carry up to 55 people.



He said the aircraft which crashed on Tuesday did not belong to the Marine Corps, but to another US government agency.



Witnesses told Aljazeera that it was hit by ground fire during heavy fighting in the area.



The officer said marines sent to the crash site, some 20km southeast of Falluja, came under attack and sustained unspecified casualties.



http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F8388B06-6A1B-43AB-8DF1-529ADBEA24DA.htm

[hang a left]

38. Will we ever know the truth?

[lebkuchen]

12. But MSNBC says "Violence Ebbs." Kimmitt says all is under control

How can this be~?

[Flagg]

13. we're plenty tough cried the AWOL chimp

[pinniped]

15. While on the putting green.

n/t

[0007]

19. "Let's Roll"

... this little piggy went we we we we all the way home

[saigon68]

24. "Another round of Dom Perrignon" Shouted the Halliburton Exec

After reviewing the 1st quarter earnings.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. Every morning I'm reading the same headlines. It's groundhog day.

Time to wrap this baby up and bring our babies home.

[Ripley]

21. Damn, another one!

But don't worry, the Boy King will tell us everything is under control (despite spiking death toll and loss of equipment) and we really don't need new troops or money.

I wish someone would lob an egg at his head when he opens his pie hole.

[saigon68]

25. Votes not eggs

Mere eggs won't scare the CHIMPANZEE, he eats so many bananas mere eggs won't impress him at all.

The Chimp's worried all right. Can't wait to hear about WMD's on TV tonight ----my 85 year old aunt will be on the phone again to me, after Chimpy scares the shit out of her again.

[Ripley]

28. No, eggs.

Just like the Gropenator got! Did you see that...he played it so cool, acted like he didn't have a splat egg on his Armani suit, just slipped it off and went on smiling coatless.

Now imagine the Smirk with an egg splat on his sleeve? I think he'd lose it completely. Have a mental breakdown and curl into the fetal position sucking his thumb asking for Mommy.

Keep telling your aunt it's LIES!!!!!!!!!!!

edit: spelling

[Cocoa]

27. the thugs are shooting down helicopters

[catmandu57]

29. The Iraqi sand is going to close around

our military and swallow it whole. The sheer weight of numbers is a huge factor that's been overlooked. It's much like the genocide of the native people here, before long, we're going to reach a point where we can't afford to lose another soldier, another apache, humvee, bradley, or tank.
While the Iraqi's can lose soldier after soldier and they'll keep coming, and we'll wake one morning and ask where the hell is our army?

[makhno]

30. Apache or MH-53?

New York Times is reporting an Apache shot down, but the Yahoo link above shows the wreckage of an MH-53 SOF transport. What gives? Two different choppers? Journalistic confusion on the type?

I'm not at all surprised that the media is minimizing coverage of helicopter and armor losses. The myth of US techonological superiority is as important to goad people into supporting an "easy, painless" war as the one about the war's political motives.

bm

[jmcgowanjm]

31. Iraqi Resistance downs four US helicopters on Saturday.

Iraqi Resistance fighters brought down a total of four
American aggressor helicopters on Saturday. The first
was shot down in al-Jawlan neighborhood. The second
was downed by a rocket-propelled grenade in ad-Dughaythi.
The third was shot down on the road to ar-Ramadi. The
fourth and last helicopter of the day was shot down
in as-Saqlawiyah. The correspondent of Mafkarat al-
Islam (www.islammemo.cc) in al-Fallujah reported
that as-Saqlawiyah was the site of two helicopter
downings on Friday as well.

One scary factiod someone said is that a 10 year old with
an RPG hit a tank. Well, here's something CENTCOM
won't tell you. The minute you get into a city, a tank is
almost useless. Not completely, almost. Especially a
behemoth like the M-1 Abrams, turned into a mobile
pillbox. Anyone with guts and an RPG can try to knock
it out

US Marines are sitting outside Fallujah, using a cease-
fire to reenforce their two outnumbered battalions, and
hoping that some Iraqis can decide to stop killing each
other and them. Despite all the big talk of "surrender or
die" US forces are essentially stuck a mile inside the city
and unable to move father without calling in the big guns
and air support.

The commanders tell the reporters one story, their unit movements say another.

We're facing elite Republican Guard-Professional
Russian trained commandos. And we've already bought off
andsent out of country their nominal "leaders."

In no war game you could play, in no Lessons Learned,
do you bring up another unit if your attack is going well.
You do that when your other units are getting hammered.

And yet,the US, stretched to the limit,wants to open more
fronts-Karbala-Najaf. When the pilgrimage is over we're
going in- With what AC130 gunships? Tanks
and helos are being neutralized.

We're the bad guys folks and we're going to get our asses
kicked because of it.

[anarchy1999]

36. I' m afraid I must agree with your assessment of the current situation.

N/t

Sad, sad state of affairs.

[UpInArms]

32. related article: US chopper shot down; crew saved

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9274431%255E401,00.html

A US military helicopter went down outside Fallujah today, and the crew was extracted without casualties, a Marine commander said.

US troops blew up the downed craft to keep it from being looted, he said. Insurgents said they downed the craft with a rocket-propelled grenade.

Marines Lieutenant Colonel Brennan Byrne said the reason for the crash of the H-53 Sikorski helicopter before dawn was not known.

He said the Troops extracted the crew, and "there is no indication the crew was injured," Byrne said.

...a bit more...

[hang a left]

35. so which one is it?

Is the crew dead or uninjured?

[daleo]

40. Good question

"there is no indication the crew was injured" - that should be straightforward, but it has a bit of weasel wording to it, so one can't be sure.

[yellowcanine]

33. * says it is a minority of Iraqis who are fighting the U.S.-Maybe someone

should remind him that it was a minority of colonists who instigated the rebellion that ultimately threw the British out of North America. It appears that *'s mastery of history is as good as his mastery of the English language.

[spanone]

34. Be sure and tell the pilots that things are much better in Iraq

according to their commander-a-sleep.

[The_Casual_Observer]

39. NPR reported this as a "crash" this morning

Does the CIA run NPR?