Wisconsin Democrats not allowed to vote after returning

[Buenaventura]

Source: Examiner.Com

The Wisconsin 14 have been denied voting rights in the state legislature

Read more: http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/wisconsin-democrats-still-not-allowed-to-vote-even-after-returning-to-the-state

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i'm speechless

[Webster Green]

1. This only confirms that the rethugs couldn't care less about their jobs.

This action will just make it easier to gather re-call signatures on petitions. The rethugs are bought out and have sold out their constituents.

I can't see them accomplishing anything by this. Hopefully anything they do will be undone before long.

[aquart]

5. An honest court would declare all legislation illegal from this bunch.

[midnight]

26. I agree.....

[yourout]

2. Then they might as well head back to Illinois.

[fascisthunter]

3. Republicans are Trying to Overthrow the Government and

with it, the rule of law itself.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

19. Yes, they are. And they think nobody can stop them

or WILL. I won't say what I want to say...

[Doctor_J]

30. Nobody CAN stop them

this should be obvious by now.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

31. oh, that's your mission here, isn't it?

to squash all spirit - kind of like the thugs do...

[peace frog]

20. Exactly

A stunning, naked, amoral power grab.

[Doctor_J]

37. Actually, they ARE overthrowing the government

and no one is doing anything about it.

[Greybnk48]

40. This IS a coup d'etat! Make no mistake.

That's exactly what they're doing. They're hoping good decent people won't believe it until it's too late.

[bucolic_frolic]

4. GOP will challenge recall petitions and procedures and law

Fitz scoffed at recall last week ... 'is it legal?' or something like that. Clearly they will stonewall this like everything else. What are the state Supreme Court judges like in the state?

[htuttle]

9. Check back on that question after April 5

Kloppenburg for WI Supreme Court!

Make sure to vote, if you live here.

[Lord Magus]

46. Given that the recall procedures are part of the state constitution, there's nothing he can do.

He can scoff all he likes, but he has no recourse once his majority gets voted out.

[dhill926]

6. anyone know about the legalities of this?......n/t

[ShadowLiberal]

11. Don't know about the state, but in the federal government this WOULD be legal

I'm not sure about Wisconsin, but I'm 99% certain that it would be perfectly legal if the house or senate in the federal government decided to do this.

While the constitution says that legislators get to vote, and each vote counts equally when passing legislation before the whole chamber, it doesn't say anything about voting in committees.

The ruling party could adjust the formula for picking how many seats each party gets on a committee, and make it so that their own party gets EVERY seat, even if they have just 1 more member then the opposition. This has never been done however, because really, long term, it's not in the party's best interest to set a precedent to shut themselves out of all committees when they lose the majority, and kicking the other party out of all the committees would probably make it much harder to pass any legislation.

Oh and you know how you have to be in the building to vote on legislation? Congressmen in the federal government are allowed to phone in a vote on a committee, or vote by proxy. It's only when the whole chamber is voting on passing a bill that they have to be physically in the building.

[Buenaventura]

14. wow - i'd no idea. i certainly hope that it's not the case

in wisconsin. but even if it isn't, i suspect that walker will do whatever he wants while the courts ponder. that's discouraging.

[Critters2]

22. But he's not just talking about committees. He's talking about both committee and floor votes.

He does not have the power to block floor votes.

[Igel]

34. No, he's not.

Read the email, not how somebody interprets the summary somebody else gives of the email.

The email was sent to the committee chairs. It says that the Dems are not to have their votes counted (for particular variety of votes). Votes by the full house aren't mentioned, even by implication; the standing committee chairs have no say over them.

More importantly is what the information structure of the email suggests.

To institute the rule, you'd usually first say "no, they can't vote. They can, however, attend meetings and participate fully." In other words, you'd list the rule and then modifications to it; you'd state the penalty and then pre-empt questions that would naturally arise.

He lists the modifications first, what the legislators *can* do. Then he seems to repeat the general rule. That tells me that the important thing is what the legislators can do; the rule itself is old information. In other words, he's responding to requests for clarification or to misconceptions that he's heard.


This makes sense in another way: Using Roberts' Rules terminology, as members of the "committee" (i.e., the legislature) they have access to all the regular open-session meetings of every subcommittee (i.e., standing committees). Unless there's some specific reason to bar them from closed/executive session, they also have access to those. However, not all members of a committee has both voice and vote on every subcommittee. This leads to a post upstream, so I won't repeat what was said there.

It's unclear to me that he has power to unilaterally block subcommittee votes. That doesn't mean I'm going to say he lacks the power.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

43. Actually, FITZGERALD could be held in contempt According to WI law:

2010 Wisconsin Code
Chapter 13. Legislative branch. 13.26 Contempt.

13.26(1)---(1) Each house may punish as a contempt, by imprisonment, a breach of its privileges or the privileges of its members; but only for one or more of the following offenses:

13.26(1)(a)---(a) Arresting a member or officer of the house, or procuring such member or officer to be arrested in violation of the member's privilege from arrest.

(This next one is the one they are using against the Dems)

13.26(1)(b)--- (b) Disorderly conduct in the immediate view of either house or of any committee thereof and directly tending to interrupt its proceedings.

13.26(1)(c)---(c) Refusing to attend or be examined as a witness, either before the house or a committee, or before any person authorized to take testimony in legislative proceedings, or to produce any books, records, documents, papers or keys according to the exigency of any subpoena.

Are the Thugs also violating this one?
13.26(1)(d)---(d) Giving or offering a bribe to a member, or attempting by menace or other corrupt means or device to control or influence a member's vote or to prevent the member from voting.

13.26(2)---
(2) The term of imprisonment a house may impose under this section shall not extend beyond the same session of the legislature.

http://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2010/13/13.26.htm.

[sellitman]

7. It's War

Un-Civil War.

Nothing short of that.

[ShadowLiberal]

8. The 14 dems should vote no on everything until they give back their voting rights in committee

The democrats should say that until their votes will actually matter at shaping legislation in committee they'll vote no on every single bill and use every stalling tactic in the book against their antidemocracy measure.

For good measure they should also be screaming their heads off about the republicans being against democracy and against the '1 person 1 vote' rule.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

10. The 14 senators are in contempt?

for what? The article doesn't say.
I know they've been fined, are they refusing to pay?

Can a senator who's votes don't count be considered a quorum?

[tabatha]

12. I bet this is because they want to push through

sales of state assets before the next election or the recalls.

[Iliyah]

13. Any response from

the Dems? The heroes of WI.

Are these gopers desperate, jamming every legislation as fast as possible. I think they are freaking out, and in doing so are making legal mistakes.

[Buenaventura]

15. of course, if there were 19 GOP heads on pikes

then the senate couldn't do anything either.

so we only need 13 pikes.

[Critters2]

23. +1 nt

[AsahinaKimi]

16. The recall needs to happen soon

Wisconsin is not a dictatorship.

[glinda]

28. Wrong. WI is a dictatorship. That is why Walker has to have charges brought against him.

[SoapBox]

17. Wow...The RushThugs have made their own version of Russia or China or any number of Middle Eastern..

...countries.

Dictators and Tin-Plated Commanders.

Wake "F'ing" up America!!!!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

18. HOLY crap... stunning audacity

This is too much to take. I wonder what's up at the Capitol... I am just too sick to go up there right now.

[Doremus]

21. Coup d'etat.

Will they be held accountable?

[peace frog]

39. Precisely

and certainly not.

[neverforget]

24. I believe this is authoritarian which is what the Republicans are at their

core. They seem to think they have some God given right to rule.

[peace frog]

41. They're moving at lightening speed, ahead of the recalls

to make the sweeping changes they want to jam through. Also look for them to cement these new laws in place = once in place, always in place. Then they can meet the recalls with aplomb, having accomplished their objectives, and accept those cushy new jobs awaiting them in the private sector. "Mission Accomplished".

[groundloop]

25. Recall those damned Publicans now.

Those are really really some arrogant bastards.

[fishwax]

27. I sure hope they get that done soon

I know the republicans will try to stall, but if they keep overplaying their hand like this the recall elections will be landslides.

[Doctor_J]

29. The protest is going to turn into an unmitigated disaster

When do we wake up to the fact that peaceful protest is not going to accomplish anything against these fascists?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

32. you sound like a troll

or an instigator. Which is it?

[Doctor_J]

36. Yeah, that's me

10 years of trolling. You sound like an appeaser or a Republican. Which is it?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

38. Is it just disillusionment and despair? -nt

[Zorra]

47. Do you believe that mass general strikes, focused mass boycotts,

passive civil disobedience, and non-cooperation (like Gandhi's methods in driving the British out of India) would be effective?

I'm kind of hoping that the protests energize a united movement that will eventually lead to this type of action.

[murielm99]

33. Why isn't this on the front page?

[peace frog]

35. It's all Japan, all the time right now

but damn right this story should be front and center.

[NashVegas]

42. Here's the Originating Blog This Story Was Based On

All the information, none of the advertisements.

http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/03/fitzgerald-dem-senators-wont-be-allowed.html

[barbtries]

44. legally?

my gawd.

[David__77]

45. I would have no problem with Democrats in the majority doing this.

We should bear in mind that extreme partisan polarization WILL work in our favor in the long term.

[Kurovski]

48. Hell, I'm suprised they didn't do more.

The Wisco Pukes are capable of much worse.

Get RID OF THEM.

Cut them out, like the cancer on a free nation that they are.