Jewish Group: Mormons Still Baptize Dead

[Quetzal]

Jewish Group: Mormons Still Baptize Dead

SALT LAKE CITY - Researchers say that Mormons have continued to posthumously baptize Jewish Holocaust victims into their faith despite a promise to discontinue the practice.

"We are very hopeful that we will be able to convince the church to stop," Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, said Friday. If not, Michel said, his group will consider other options, "possibly legal steps."

Church spokesman Dale Bills said in a statement Friday evening that church officials "do not know what may come of these discussions, but we welcome the involvement of any who seek to resolve amicably the concerns expressed by some of our Jewish friends."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has long collected names from government documents and other records worldwide for posthumous baptisms. Church members stand in to be baptized in the names of the deceased non-Mormons, a ritual the church says is required for them to reach heaven.

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Jewish Group: Mormons Still Baptize Dead

[GainesT1958]

1. So is that their way of saying...

Jews will, in fact, get into Heaven after all!?:crazy:

Prostletyzing really sucks...why can't they just leave other God-fearing people (or even Atheists, for that matter) alone?:mad:

It's not a modern "Crusade", folks; it's more like a modern-day Inquisition, IMO!:thumbsdown:

B-)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

2. While this IS audacious on the part of the Mormons...

I can't understand why anybody would care after they're dead. It's not as if the deceased's faith has changed... :shrug:

[nodehopper]

10. because it's disrespectful!

you could make the same argument about vandalizing graves--who cares, they are dead, right?

I'd be MIGHTY PISSED OFF if I found out that my Jewish relatives who perished in the Holocaust were being posthumously baptised.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

15. Grave vandalism is entirely different...

as it has an impact on the relatives of the deceased and trashes a place where people come to mourn.

It IS disrespectful; but good luck explaining disrespect to people who were respected so much that they ended up exiled to Utah for their beliefs. Not to mention the fact that the Latter Day Saints are the same folks that brought you Orrin Hatch...Mr. Respectful-of-Others Himself.

Unless you want to start playing the same kind of disrespectful game with them, I seriously doubt that there's anything you can do about this, short of boycotting Mormon Tabernacle Choir CDs...

I'm sorry...I realize that it's an incredibly arrogant practice; but as I said, it's not like their rude little ceremony actually changes your relatives. It's really not unlike the fundies who pray for my "satan-consumed" soul every Sunday because I don't see things the way they do.

[flaminbats]

19. it is no different...

to those who said no to the Mormon Church when alive, Baptism after death is no different than pissing on the faith which they gave so much for!

Mormons have the right to convert the living to their faith, and so they should. But there is nothing more sacred to the dead than honoring their religion. In other words..the rights of a church end where the rights of an individual begin. No church should have the right to make any dead person another member without specific approval given in this individual's last will and testament.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

28. So do we get the religion police to stop them?

I say no to the Mormons too; and believe me, I'm as appalled as anybody by lack of respect for a person's belief or non-belief.

But their sacrament of baptism means nothing to me. Whatever they choose to fantasize after my death has no bearing on my soul.

[flaminbats]

30. We should stop policing religion...

by not giving some churches, many of which are nothing more than politically correct groups, special treatment under the taxcode when other organized religions, perceived as cults, have no hope of becoming tax exempt!

[SemperEadem]

21. unbelievable

That's like a stranger walking into your home after your mom has died and is telling you that her faith isn't good enough to them for her to die in and that they are going to take a liberty with her memory that is not their right to take.

That is the issue. It's a violation and an intrusion into a person's life they know nothing about. The very least they could do is to ask permission of the family, first, before proceeding.

Well, let's see if the mormons mind their dead being baptized in another religion against their wishes. Two can play that game.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

29. If they were actually visiting relatives of the deceased

and doing what you suggest, I'd agree with you. Are they, in fact, rubbing descendants'noses in the fact that they're "baptizing" their Jewish ancestors posthumously?

"Well, let's see if the mormons mind their dead being baptized in another religion against their wishes. Two can play that game."

This is an excellent suggestion from the perspective of one who's fed up with the Mormon's disrespect. However, I'm almost positive (correct me if I'm wrong) that this sort of thing is simply not done in Judaism. And most Christian sects would be appalled by the notion.

You might be able to get the Robertson/Falwell types to go for it, though.

[WillParkinson]

38. Perhaps not...

But how do you think that would make the family of the deceased feel? If my parents found out that I was 'baptized' by another church they'd go ballistic. It's bad enough that I'm an atheist. It's even worse (in their eyes) that my soul (which they insist I have) might now belong to another group. (Hey, they're strange folks.)

[SimpleMan]

3. They actually baptised Hitler at least 3 times...

...as well as every single president of the US. The list goes on and on. Seriously.

They believe that after you die, you still have a chance to accept the Mormon "gospel." But they also believe that you have to be baptised on earth. So they baptise by proxy. Hundreds a day are baptised like that.

[PassingFair]

6. Is there

money in it? Can I become a professional proxy baptizee?

[chemp]

27. I swear I didn't cheat on my wife.

I gave all these women her proxy.

"Snort"

Christ, that's funny!

[mobuto]

4. While this is annoying and asinine

and I'm not sure how much I like the idea of having my entire family inducted into the Mormon church, really who cares? If these guys want to have a ceremony in the privacy of their own facilities, I really don't care what they do.

[PassingFair]

5. Bwwaaaahhhhahahaha!

Not so fast, now I am reverse baptizing them. Fly free, Jewish souls!And now for you Mormons---I'm crushing your heads, I'm crushing your heads...

[sandnsea]

16. Reverse baptizing, rotfl

That's great. Fly free!

[Alenne]

7. As long as they are not digging up bodies

I don't see what the problem is. It's a little disrespectful but they can't really turn a dead person Mormon.

[nonbelief]

8. That's okay, Mormons....

The mormons can baptise my dead relatives as often as they like. But just so they know, every night I dream of having sex with the Mormon twins who live down the street from me.

And we ain't talking "missionary position".

[FlaGranny]

9. Kind of crazy, but I'm not bothered by it.

What I wonder though is, don't most Christian denominations believe in only ONE baptism, so if a person has already been baptised even in another denomination, it should not be done again? I seem to remember someone telling me that once, but I'm not sure.

[JCMach1]

11. They do this for everyone if a member of the church

has such relatives.

Literally, a dead ancestor could be the Pope, and they would Baptize him.

[nonbelief]

12. Actually, these complaints remind me...

I worked for Meals on Wheels in an area that had alot of muslim customers, so, besides our normal meals, we prepared a run of halal meals every day.
At first we bought our meat supplies from halal and non-halal suppliers, until we realized it made more sense just to buy just halal meat and serve it to everyone.

When word got out there was an uproar from non-muslim customers and local Christian churches.

It was the most irrational thing I had ever witnessed.

[minkyboodle]

13. Let me channel my inner Mormon childhood for a response

Firstly I personally understand why some would be offended by this LDS practice. I'm just gonna offer the response that some Mormons I know would say. In their minds, baptism does no harm and if they are right about their kooky beliefs... hey bonus the dead relative gets the chance to get into the "best" level of heaven (I'm not making that up). Most can't comprehend why people get upset by the practice. I always thought the object of the baptism had to be a relative of a church member but I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't always the case. Anyway its just one facet of that kooky faith (hey I had to sit in church 3 hours every Sunday till I was 14 so I have the right to have some fun). Anyway, most Mormons don't mean harm by this and they really don't get that some might be offended. Like I said I can understand why some would be angry, I just see it as non consequential.
Scott
Time to refill my 7 and 7
:evilgrin:

[yardwork]

31. I think it is the underlying arrogance that bothers people.

I think that people rightly wonder, if the Mormons were in charge of the country, would they stop at baptizing dead people? Might they consider insisting on baptisms of living people?

Not to single out the Mormons. Quite a large number of Christians believe that their's is the only true religion, and they like to insist on other people going along with this, by, say, praying in school, reciting a pledge of allegiance that includes God, etc.

One of the things that conquering armies usually do is force the conquered to drop their own religion and adopt the religion of the new regime.

[Klapaucius]

34. If they were actually in charge...

you might see something that they won't tell you about until you're too far into it. Do a search for 'blood atonement'. There a whole church history that most folks don't know about, and aren't really told about until they're deep into the faith.

They'll say 'milk before meat' which essentially means that they won't reveal the ugly bits of their history.

This is coming from someone who was one for a while, and who has since done a lot of reading.

[Zhade]

35. Swastikas in the temples during WWII.

I'm an ex-Mormon myself, and this is one of those hidden pieces of history.

[Flubadubya]

39. It's sad, really, but...

it just demonstrates the unmitigated ignorance of the Mormons.

Their little ritual does absolutely NOTHING at all, really. It evidently makes the Mormons feel better, but sheez... any rational person would know theirs is an exercise in futility! :shrug:

[Kali]

14. Relates to

"regular" christians praying for you. I don't care for it. Stop doing it. Don't say god bless to me either. And I resent having to vote inside a church, of any kind.

[flaminbats]

17. this shall always be a touchy subject for me!

I love all my relatives more than life itself..I have always stood up for them when my non-Mormon friends joked that they would burn in hell. When their religion was insulted, I was insulted!

But if they try to baptize my father, who has been Greek Orthodox his entire life and proud of it, I will teach my Mormon relatives the true meaning of HELL! Respect and religion is a two-way street, in order for me to respect another's religion..I must be respected by those who believe in it. If they do not respect my father enough to honor his faith, why the f*ck should I respect their's?

[lazarus]

20. Should someone also be upset

If you pray for them? Because this has the exact same effect.

In their eyes, all they are doing is offering the dead a chance at converting. The dead still have free will.

[flaminbats]

24. The dead don't have free will, but the living do..

The living need the prayers and assistance of the faithful more than any dead person will!

The living have the power to say yes and to say no. A church has no right to say yes or no for anyone, whether they be dead or alive.

Let them prey for me, but if I freely choose Hell over Mormon Heaven..they have no say in the matter

[lazarus]

33. that's the thing

The Mormons feel the dead do have free will, to choose the Mormon faith or not.

So what does it matter?

I'm an atheist. I'm also not the least bit offended if you pray for me at all. Doesn't affect me a bit.

The only way Mormon practises can affect your dead is if the Mormons are right, in which case you should be happy that you and your dead relatives have a chance to accept it, right?

[Chicago Democrat]

18. Its like arguing about indulgences or how many angels fit on a pinhead.

Kind of riduculous no matter where you stand.

I wanna know why Mormons are always so cute and perky?

[SemperEadem]

22. Because of the pounds of sugar they consume

it's the only drug left to them, (that and fear) so that's why they're so damn perky.

[Sandpiper]

23. Delete

[not systems]

25. The bizarre rituals of a...

death cult.

Deserves respect I guess.

If a group cast the souls of the dead into eternal damnation
it would deserve respect also.

Right?

Good.

Candles burn and fire rise your great great grandma's soul
I cast into eternal fire.

What?

Don't you respect religious freedom?

Bigot.

[flaminbats]

26. I agree, no tax-free status for any such group!

Why should any group that violates the rights of an individual have the legal status of a charity?

[Muddleoftheroad]

36. They are a religion

Do you get to pick and choose which get freedom and which do not?

[Blue_Tires]

32. we don't have to worry

I've just converted every mormon that has ever lived to the church of satan worship...turnabout=fair play

[lumpy]

37. This sounds like a form of cultism

x

[JNelson6563]

40. I knew this

Mormons will baptize those of their families who have died before them when they determine those folks would have become Mormon (and thus been saved) if they had only known the facts/heard the message.

I wonder though, what about those who died before around 1830? That's about the time Joseph Smith founded the Mormons.

Julie

[Cassandra]

41. The problem is that they've now gone from retail to wholesale

and they are baptizing large numbers of the dead who have never had any connection with the Mormons. It is one of the ways they can claim huge increases in membership.