Radiation 1,000 times normal at Japan nuke plant

[wtmusic]

Source: MSNBC

TOKYO — Radiation reached around 1,000 times the normal level Saturday in the control room of the No. 1 reactor of the Fukushima nuclear power plant, Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.

The discovery suggests radioactive steam could spread around the facility operated by Tokyo Electric Power Co., Kyodo news agency reported.

The radiation surge followed Japan's massive earthquake, which caused a power outage that disabled a nuclear reactor's cooling system, triggering the evacuation of about 3,000 residents near the site, as the government declared its first-ever state of emergency at a nuclear plant.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42025882/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

[Angry Dragon]

1. Not good

[HereSince1628]

2. OMG! This IS NOT good.

Words cannot adequately acknowledge the brave technicians and engineers in this struggle.

[WheelWalker]

4. Yep. It's "Show Time" nt

[PaDUer]

11. another article...

<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365333/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-State-emergency-nuclear-power-plant-crippled.html>

[Tansy_Gold]

3. You would think, given that Japan was the first "victim"

of the horrific effects of atomic energy, they would be less inclined to use it even for "peaceful" purposes.

It's time for me to read Lifton and Mitchell's "Hiroshima in America" again.


TG

[valerief]

7. But extremely wealthy men need to get richer no matter what the cost--to others. nt

[Confusious]

8. Given that japan has no oil reserves

no coal reserves, not enough land for solar or wind, I don't find it surprising at all.

[Xithras]

23. Japan uses nuclear power for two simple reasons.

1. Japan is a very energy-poor country. No coal, no oil, very little natural gas, and THAT is only found in waters contested by China. There isn't enough land for large scale on-shore wind, and the prevailing winds during the summer come from the Pacific side, where the seafloor drops off too steeply for offshore wind farms. The only thing that Japan DOES have plenty of is geothermal (it IS a volcanic island chain, after all), but that's not sufficient to meet all of their energy needs.


2. Nuclear weapons. As freaky as it sounds, Japan is considered to be a "paranuclear state" by the IAEA. While they have no real military of their own, they ARE surrounded by belligerent neighbors that don't like them very much (China and North Korea in particular), and there has been a longstanding assumption that they would rapidly militarize their technologies if a large scale war ever became a real possibility. Japan is interesting in that it has no nuclear weapons, and yet it has all of the raw materials and the technical skills needed to develop them. Doing it by the book, it's been estimated that Japan could have a full nuclear weapons program capable of delivering a steady stream of nukes in under a year. In a rush and while fighting off a hostile neighbor, it's been estimated that they probably cobble together a handful of one-off nuclear bombs in only a few months.

While the Japanese are a peaceful people and have repeatedly stated their disinterest in war, they're also a proud people, and they have hedged their bets in MANY areas to ensure that they retain the capability to rapidly militarize, if it ever becomes absolutely necessary. They have no interest in becoming the next Tibet.

[defendandprotect]

31. Japan has sunshine -- we all do -- and it's time to move to green/alternative energy --

[wickerwoman]

36. Agree with 99.9%

but "the Japanese are a peaceful people"... the Rape of Nanjing anyone? The Bataan Death March? The Manilla massacres? Sook ching? Unit 731? The Japanese committed widescale genocide in East Asia in living memory and the only reason it isn't as well publicized as the Holocaust is that the US needed allies against Red China.

If Japan is "surrounded by belligerent neighbors" maybe there is a reason, at least for those whose memories are more than 50 years old- including, oh say, tens of thousands of "comfort women" looking at their part-Japanese children and grandchildren.

I'm very sorry for the devastation caused by this earthquake and I hope that it isn't exacerbated by a meltdown, but Japan is not a "peaceful nation surrounded by belligerent neighbors" any more than Germany is a "peaceful but proud nation surrounded by Polish and French people always looking to start trouble".

[defendandprotect]

30. Just said almost exactly this in a post I made -- !! Ironic, isn't it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

190. They have no oil, or coal

you want to be an advanced economy you need energy. Solar and wind and waves are not up to developed enough.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. You still get more of a dose every time you fly in an airplane.

Normal operating 'leak' is 0.009 mrem/year.

x1000 is 9 mrem/year. To put that in perspective:

You get between 35-50 mrem/year from the sun.
5-6 mrem/year for living in a brick house.
5-10 mrem per flight in an airplane.

etc.

[Ptah]

6. Good info!

Thanks.

[femrap]

10. If there is no water to cool

this reactor, numbers don't mean a damn thing. The diesel generator was flooded by the tsunami and so there is no water being generated to the reactor.

Grab some buckets and start a brigade, dudes.

[Ptah]

12. I under stand we are nowhere near the end of this event.

The information I was thankful for gives a better
perspective on the current situation than the
sensational

"1,000 times normal"

screaming hysteria.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. there are 4 plants down....2 that will def have melt downs and 2 others that prob will

[AtheistCrusader]

18. Two CERTAIN meltdowns based on a twitter post?

Okie-doke.

From the Guardian:

"TOKYO, March 12 (Reuters) - Tokyo Electric Power <9501.T> said it had lost its ability to control pressure in some of the reactors of a second nuclear power plant at its quake-hit Fukushima facility in northeastern Japan.
Pressure is stable inside the reactors but rising in the containment vessels, a spokesman said, although he did not know if there would be a need to release pressure at the plant at this point, which would involve a release of radiation. (Reporting by Osamu Tsukimori; Editing by Edwina Gibbs and Edmund Klamann) "

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. no...based on this Christian Science Monitor article & Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0311/Japan-nuclear-plant-in-state-of-emergency-as-cooling-power-runs-low

[AtheistCrusader]

20. You said 'def'.

That CS article does not.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. (Now) 3 nuclear reactors in trouble after Japan quake (Real Meltdown Risk)...link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42025882/ns/world_news-asiapacific

def 3

[AtheistCrusader]

22. I think it's safe to assume all three reactors that were online at Fukushima Daiichi are'in trouble'

But no, no 'def' meltdown.

Wait and see.

[defendandprotect]

34. And YOU personally are guaranteeing what?

[AtheistCrusader]

166. Currently reactor 1 is in danger, two is sort of not being talked about, and three is safe.

According to multiple AP sources.

Of course, all you are hearing about over and over is reactor one, but given the situation, I think that is reasonable.

[defendandprotect]

267. Storage tanks/waste are an additional threat - no nuclear plant is "safe" ...

:eyes:

[boppers]

24. I don't think "meltdown" means what you think it means.

For example, they could be pumping tons of radioactive steam into the air and not get to a point of meltdown.

[defendandprotect]

277. And they could get to a real meltdown ... nuclear reactors aren't safe ...

and everyone of them should be folded.

No matter where they are, the yare a threat to all of us!!

[wordpix]

28. (Now) 5 cited and U.S.-based Nuke Energy Inst. says even if a meltdown occurs,

it "would not necessarily pose a threat to public health and safety." :puke:

How easy for him to say, it's not his home he has to evacuate or cancer he and his family will get from the radioactivity. Union of Concerned Scientist on Rachel is saying this could be a Chernobyl-type meltdown.

snip


But Steve Kerekes, spokesman for the U.S.-based Nuclear Energy Institute, said that while the situation was serious, a meltdown remains unlikely and, even if it occurred would not necessarily pose a threat to public health and safety.

“Obviously that wouldn’t be a good thing, but at Three Mile Island about half the core melted and, at the end of the day … there were no adverse impacts to the public,” he said.

Experts also downplayed the seriousness of the trace levels of radiation detected at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

[AtheistCrusader]

189. This type of reactor can't really do that.

It's a light water reactor. There could be some leakage, (not just traces in the steam) but it will be nothing at all like Chernobyl.


Now, the storage ponds outside... those could be bad, 'worst case scenario'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

223. They now have detected cesium

it will soon be official.

[defendandprotect]

279. Can you relate anything more on "cesium" .... did find this link ....

http://www.frankmckinnon.com/cesium_compounds.htm

[ElsewheresDaughter]

261. IT HAS HAPPENED !!! EXPLOSION !!! EVACUATING 12 MILE RADIUS and stopping cars 60 miles away turning

them around.....no one can get home if they live within 60 miles of the reactor

[defendandprotect]

278. +1000% -- one of the things we can be sure of is the downplaying ... !!

[HereSince1628]

9. But you only get that for the few hours an avg person flies.

We don't yet have knowledge of the dosimeters of those standing in the control room.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. That is true.

I'm assuming 10 mrem/year on the reactor leak, if the 1000x number is accurate.
It could be higher. Could be lower than the automatic monitoring systems can show.


But on the flight thing, that's TOTAL dose. 5-10 mrem per flight. Where the reactor leak is 10 mrem/year if you stand in it all that time (and if that number is accurate)

[HereSince1628]

14. Let's hope it is minimized as soon as possible.

I can't imagine the stress placed on the people.

You just cannot pay people enough to stand and do their jobs in a time like this.

[wordpix]

27. oh, geesh, don't throw logic into a pro-nuker's argument

They don't like it.

[wordpix]

26. oh, yeah, we know, nukes are safe & Chernobyl, 3 Mi. Isl. & Fukushima never happened

give me a break. I'll take living in a brick house any day.

[defendandprotect]

32. Btw, pilots are showing effects of that --

[defendandprotect]

33. This stuff will not only hit "Downwinders" -- i.e., all of us -- will return with rain ...!!

[Bosonic]

15. source: twitter.com/BreakingNews

Tokyo Electric Power Co. is reporting that they have lost control of the pressure in their No. 1 & 2 nuclear reactors with temps rising

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. get ready for 2 major melt downs....they cannot fix this

[boppers]

25. Army is delivering batteries for the backup systems.

It's still fixable, but it's not going to be easy.

[defendandprotect]

35. Where are you tracking this info?

[defendandprotect]

29. kr

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Venting air from reactor container suspended

Source: NKH Enlgish

The operation at Fukushima No.1 plant to lower pressure of the containment vessel has been suspended due to high radiation levels at the site.

Pressure of the reactor container is rising as its cooling system became dysfunctional due to a blackout and power generator breakdown. This has raised concern about possible damage to the container.

The power station's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, began to vent air from the reactor container at 9AM on Saturday.

Under the plan, 2 valves close to the container would be opened manually, but radiation level on the second valve was found higher than expected.

Read more: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_38.html

---

NOT GOOD... I hope they manage to get this done... but this tells me rads are higher than just the 1000 times... or the 1000 times are bad enough.

Oh wait, I read it here, this is nothing to worry about.

[Solly Mack]

38. K&R

[buddysmellgood]

42. Hey, did you know that bananas are naturally radioactive?

[Solly Mack]

263. Are you calling me toxic? :)

I've read that before about some foods.(and not just foods)

[glinda]

39. uh-oh

[HCE SuiGeneris]

40. Frick

Like watching an accident in frame sequences...

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Actually... yes

they are that slow motioned.

[Downwinder]

43. Japanese Government quoted on Al Jazeera "A meltdown is probable."

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. AP is saying possible

choice of words, choice of words.

Gallows humor here

[IScreamSundays]

51. latest blog post seems to indicate a meltdown is in progress

3:04pm
Japanese nuclear authorities say there is a high possibility that nuclear fuel rods at a reactor at Tokyo Electric Power Company's (TEPC) Fukushima Daiichi plant may be melting or have melted, Jiji news agency reports.

Experts have said that if the fuel rods have been damaged, it means that it could develop into a breach of the nuclear reactor vessel and the question then becomes one of how strong the containment structure around the vessel is and whether it has been undermined by the earthquake – and if it can withstand the likely aftershocks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. oohh boy

HOPE the vessel can contain it.

[Phlem]

45. To depressing to reply

Hey, here's an idea, let's not build nuclear power plants on fault lines!

Meaning, we're worse off than Japan based on some of the US nuclear power plant foot prints.

But hey Mr. Obama's just asked for more $ for more nuclear power plants.


I swear to god sometimes I think we're all doomed.

We need to get ass hats and $ out of our body politic.

-p

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. There is one up the road right on the fault

and UNLIKE these plants built on sandy soil.

Can you say liqufication?

8.9 is not precisely a common quake, but the 7.5 are far more possible.

[amandabeech]

251. It is hard to imagine a worse place for a reactor.

Siting is job #1 for these things.

It's not only the land itself, but how many people are in the vicinity and how quickly they can be evacuated.

Shoreham on Long Island was not on a fault, and the soil what what you'd find with a glacial moraine.

But how in the world would anyone evacuate that many panicked Long Islanders over the few bridges, some dumping right onto Manhattan streets?

It just wasn't doable. I know an engineer who was involved with that and still doesn't understand that one must consider evacuation in siting. He works at Davis-Besse now and lives 60 miles up wind of the thing.

[abqmufc]

46. I envision Spock in the Enterprise's reactor core....

I don't mean to be cruel or funny, but these men and women are risking their lives to save 10,000s to 100,000s of lives...lets not sugar coat it...we are watching the 3rd meltdown in my life (3 Mile, Chernobyl, Japan). If this is the worst earthquake in Japan's history and the 5th worst in the world, how and why are the supporters of nuclear power conceiving this is going to turn out OK when the entire country is at a standstill?

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Oh trust me, I am not making light of what they are doing

some folks round these parts are.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. And 'some folks' round these parts are imagining personal insults.

[abqmufc]

245. Please don't,

that was not my intent. I was more concerned about my comment being off the mark and deemed inappropriate. I couldn't help it I Spock popped in my head, and such movies where a major part of my childhood.

My hope is things turn out as best they can, but I do see this a legitimate threat to entire planet. I also hope supporters of nuclear power begin to admit there are serious risks to nuclear power, including the mining and milling (issues pushed under the rug in the nuclear debate).

I mean if 150,000 birds lay dead under wind turbines, I'd admit we would need to address the issue at hand. However, I would also argue 150,000 dead birds from wind turbines is just that....but a full scale meltdown impact's won't be known for several generations.

[AtheistCrusader]

246. Not you.

She put me on ignore after claiming I personally insulted her. I didn't. As far as I can tell, she misunderstood the meaning of a word. If you quote me, perhaps she will see that. I did not insult her.

Edit: Or her. Him or her. I do not know that poster's gender.

Edit 2: Her, based on profile info.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. Chernobyl was built to withstand pretty much nothing.

No containment at all. Yes, that blew stuff everywhere. Bad times.

3 mile island was built to prevent that, and suffered meltdown without complete failure. As designed.
This reactor MIGHT. No idea what reactor 2 is up to. Reactor three has been brought under control, pressure and heat levels dropping into safe zones.

[kristopher]

273. That is false. Chernobyl had a containment system.

[AtheistCrusader]

293. You forgot a word there. "Partial"

It had a PARTIAL containment. Absolutely NOTHING like the reactors in question in Japan. The designs aren't even distant cousins.

It had less ability to contain pressure than my bicycle tyres.

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. March 12, 2011, Japan warns of meltdown at quake-hit plant: Kyodo

Source: Marketwatch

TOKYO (MarketWatch) -- Japanese nuclear authorities warned of a meltdown Saturday of the core of a nuclear reactor at a plant in Fukushima operated by Tokyo Electric Power Corp. (JP:9501 2,121, -32.00, -1.49%) , also known as Tepco, according to Kyodo News. Authorities said that there was a high possibility that nuclear fuel rods at the reactor of Tepco's Daiichi plant may be melting or have melted, Reuters reported, citing Jiji news. The Daiichi No. 1 nuclear reactor is about 240 kilometers (150 miles) north of Tokyo. Friday's 8.9-magnitude earthquake damaged the plant's cooling mechanism, leading to overheating that reportedly damaged the fuel rods in the reactor's core.

Read more: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-warns-of-meltdown-at-quake-hit-plant-kyodo-2011-03-12

[Purveyor]

54. Official: 2 Japanese Plants Struggling To Cool Radioactive Material

Source: CNN

Tokyo (CNN) -- Reactors at two Japanese power plants can no longer cool radioactive substances, a government official said Saturday, adding that a small leak had been detected at one of the facilities.

Atomic material has seeped out of one of the Fukushima Daiichi plant's five nuclear reactors, about 160 miles (260 kilometers) north of Tokyo, said Kazuo Kodama, a spokesman for Japan's nuclear regulatory agency.

Potentially dangerous problems in cooling radioactive material appear to have cropped up there, as well as at another of the Tokyo Electric Power Company's nuclear plants, Ichiro Fujisaki, Japan's ambassador to the United States, confirmed to CNN.

The Fukushima Daini and Fukushima Daiichi power plants are separate facilities located in different towns in northeastern Japan's Fukushima prefecture. Each one has its own set of individual nuclear reactors.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.nuclear/

[meow mix]

55. and the nuke lovers cant stroke each other fast or hard enough

whats wrong with these people?

[Botany]

56. nothing to see here .... move along

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gman]

61. Very precariously and very temporarily they are under control

we and they don't know about the next several days and they don't sound very optimistic. If they were they wouldn't be evacuating "thousands".

[AtheistCrusader]

68. It's called an 'overabundance of caution'. It's the mature, responsible thing to do.

This is an unprecedented 'injury' to this type of reactor. Caution implies nothing, except that adults are in charge.

[Gman]

268. And an "Oh shit, WTF is gonna happen next?" type of fear

[defendandprotect]

282. Adults who make mistakes -- often! And lie about it --

[Taverner]

58. Dog help them all...

That is scary stuff

Chernobyl still hasn't healed, and some say Harrisburg, PA hasn't either...

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. The next few hours will be critical

as is if we have more than just the current releases, as in a meltdown... I am giving milk up for a while... among a few other things.

The ones I feel sorry for are the Army techs moving in... they must know if this goes to hell... they are good as dead. The ones in the control room... 1000 normal levels, they area already dead if the exposure is long enough... will be soon if that keeps up

As a former wearer of them pesky yellow suits... trust me all that training cannot prepare you for THAT...

[AtheistCrusader]

60. 1000x normal levels is 1/3 the exposure you get from the sun every year.

Over the entire span of a year. If that level is correctly measured, they can be in the control room ALL YEAR at those levels, and no, they won't die.

[meow mix]

62. control room personel are already dead

yeah, real fucking safe.

[AtheistCrusader]

63. Are they now? According to whom?

[meow mix]

76. news agencys, your attitutude towards this horror is disgusting

and sick

[AtheistCrusader]

80. Please link news agency claiming the people in the control room are dead.

Your hype of the situation is pretty disgusting to me.

[meow mix]

249. its melting now? gj with the nuke lobby lies

ill never again listen to one word you or your nuke buddies have to say

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. No, not now, cancer

and RADS are not something to joke about. It is not just the funny number, but the time ratio.

[AtheistCrusader]

66. Oh please. OOOOH 1 THOUUUUSSAND TIMES.

Normal background 'leak' from this type of reactor is 0.009 mrem/year. So if they stay in there for a YEAR, and it's 1000x normal that's 9 mrem.

You get between 5-10 mrem PER FLIGHT depending on how long it is, in an airplane.
Year long exposure to the interior of a brick home? about 7 mrem.
Single-dose exposure of a whole-mouth xray from a dentist? 900 mrem.

(Based on the starting point they indicated earlier. If the levels are higher, then yes, it might be a threat.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Okie dokie I will try hard to forget all that scary theory

on radiation emergencies.

I mean this is NOT one, right?

Also this is what we have been told, and they are indeed hiding a few facts... not my words, the expert on the RMS tonight.

[AtheistCrusader]

70. We shall see.

Dosages and releases can be independently verified.

You'll excuse me if I don't go running for the hills just yet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. I am not running to the hills either

But if we have a meltdown... I am not drinking milk either for a little while.

[AtheistCrusader]

72. Fair enough.

Though, you'd have 5-7 days to binge before it was time to stop. Takes time for the cows to consume, process, and dump it in the milk.

1950's fallout handbooks are your friend. :)

(I know, gallows humor)


(I honestly think this is a containable situation, and the worst that will come of it is a spurious release of mildly radioactive steam, and a lack of power from these facilities for at least a year, and billions in repair costs)

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Of course I have five to seven days

but hey... afte that it is no milk for a month or so given where we are... and spread patterns. And that is just to be safe.

[Maine_Nurse]

73. Stop being so rational, its a buzzkill for all the panic junkies here.

[AtheistCrusader]

75. I do have one rational concern.

The evacuation zone may have left behind victims in the rubble that need rescue, that will not receive it due to the danger from the plant.

However, I doubt they haven't already thought of that, and the rescue workers are probably proceeding regardless of the danger.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Nuclear, Chemical Troops have been moved to the area

and if the danger to EMS is deemed that high... triage will say no, they do not go in...

[Maine_Nurse]

81. and some will go in to help anyway. There are people that run from screams and others...

that run towards them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Having been there done that

no, if there is a very high level of radiation, like in a meltdown, no they will not. They will let only VERY WELL EQUIPPED personnel enter the zone, for a LIMITED TIME PERIOD, who will come out into DCON areas.

And if they do, against all protocols and orders... they are already dead.

Sorry, having done the work of EMS I know what I speak off, and lord knows I went to places that most normal people will not.

Now CIVILIANS... those may try... and WITHOUT equipment, and all that... they are, again, already dead.

And if people are brought out STILL ALIVE, and rad sickness is that bad (as in advanced) keep them comfy, there is nothing you can do.

Yes, believe it or not, people die.

[AtheistCrusader]

84. We are NOWHERE near that scenario right now.

The chances of it happening are certainly greater than they were 3 days ago, but we're not on the 'precipice' of a meltdown or anything. That would assume the core melted, which so far it hasn't and won't for hours worst-case scenario, then it would require destruction of primary and secondary containment, which who knows if that can even happen.

So for now, and for many hours worst-case scenario, it is safe to search. With no protective gear.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. right now it is... but you still will have to issue people rad badges

but there is a reason why they are evacuating people...

Again, been there, done that, got the cookie.

Time\ distance\

[AtheistCrusader]

87. Sure, recent reuters update pasted below indicates reactor meltdown likely.

Welp. That means these reactors are going to become billions of dollars worth of scrap.

Still not necessarily a threat to the outside, since these BWR reactors have a solid, complete and encased containment housing, unlike Chernobyl.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Ok welp, I love your attitude, I really do

NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

Are you are an investor in nuclear plants, WELP?

Oh and personal insults, welcome to the wonderful free of insults, iggy list.

have a good fucking like, I don't do alerts.

[AtheistCrusader]

91. What personal insult?

What the hell are you talking about?

Edit: Wait, you don't think I called you a 'whelp' do you? Different word?

It's called ONOMATOPOEIA. It's a sound you make, that isn't a word. Corresponds to 'oh well'. A sound one makes while shrugging shoulders, etc.

Good grief, overreact much?

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Look down for the update

we are closer to the scenario I posited than you want to even consider.

[buddysmellgood]

65. Radiation is too scary for people. Mercury poisoning over time, we're fine with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. I am NOT fine with either, but that is just me

[DLnyc]

77. wouldn't "1000x normal levels" mean

that, by being in the control room "ALL YEAR at those levels", you would receive 1000 times the amount that you get from the sun in a year?

If it means 1/3 the amount, why don't they call it "1/3x the normal levels"?

[AtheistCrusader]

79. 'normal levels' is the nominal output from this reactor.

This type has a 'background radiation' of 0.009 mrem/year.

You get about 35-50 mrem/year from the sun depending on your latitude.

You get MORE than that, just depending on what sort of dirt around the world you happen to be standing on. They aren't talking about the sun's output when they say 1000x.


Woot, my back of the envelope calculation was 9 mrem. MSNBC says about 7. Not bad, go me:

"Japan’s Asahi Shimbum newspaper reported that radiation levels per hour in the area near the front entrance of the No. 1 Fukushima plant reached 0.59 micro Sievert, which is eight times the normal levels. The central control room of the reactor recorded radiation levels 1,000 times the normal level, which would be approximately 70 microsieverts per hour, or 7 millirems, according to calculations by msnbc.com."

[DLnyc]

99. Well, it's not very clear, when they say

"70 microsieverts per hour, or 7 millirems", whether the 7 mrem they are talking about is per year or per hour.

Also, from this Financial Times article (found by a quick google):
"Radiation levels near the main gate of the plant were measured at more than 70 times normal levels. . ."

I have to assume that "near the main gate", "normal levels" would include sunlight. So 70 times normal levels could hardly also be 1/3 the level you get from sunlight.

Basically, I have a hard time believing that during a radiation emergency in the control room you are getting 1/3 the amount you get from direct sunlight. I think you may have mixed up the units here, in your rush to down-play the scale of the problem.

You obviously know a lot about the field, and I'm trying to play catch-up here. But my reading implies that 70 microsieverts IS 7 millirems, so I would logically read "70 microsieverts per hour, or 7 millirems" to be a rather technically challenged writer reporting that the amount could either be described as "70 microsieverts per hour" or as "7 millirems PER HOUR", which, please correct me if I am wrong, would seem quite a bit different than 7 or 9 mrem/year that you seem to be talking about. In fact, assuming about 4000 hours/year of sunlight, I'm thinking spending your daylight hours in the control room for a year would give you about 28,000 mrem, or around 1000 times what you would get by standing in the sun all day every day for a year, not 1/3.

[AtheistCrusader]

100. 'normal' radiation we receive from all source is between 450-650 mrem/year.

Sunlight isn't the strongest source.

I am now also wondering if they are using the background YEARLY release as the base, or if they are going by hourly, as you suggest.


These reporters suck.

[DLnyc]

101. Yes, I agree, the reporter has not made it clear.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

83. Psst

Update 3/12 12:19 AM: This just came from Reuters on twitter... REUTERS FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji

Fukushima:

Update 5:33: Both reactors at the plant have been damaged, and officials say they have "lost control" of the pressure, according to Reuters.

Update 7:39: The latest from Kyodo Wire: Government holds emergency meeting on the plant, and is taking unprecedented stap of demanding the plant open a key valve.

Update 7:51: At least 20,000 people are being evacuated from the region says Reuters, which ominously quotes an expert who thinks there may be just a few hours until meltdown.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMNfJA81

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. HOLY SHIT

aparently things are a-okay... lost control, SHIT!

By the way where is the BREAKING NOOZ on the TV Machine? You'd think they'd be going ALERT. BREAKING NOOZ

[AtheistCrusader]

89. Unverified.

Possible though. Still doesn't indicate that release of materials is likely. Two levels of containment even if the core melts.

Damn it, I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this. That reactor will never be used again if that happens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Not good

maddow Rachel Maddow MSNBC
Nuclear safety commission in Japan cites cesium detection -- may mean a nuclear meltdown has occurred at fukushima.
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. More

libnnc Libby
RT @W7VOA: Kyodo also reporting that Fukushima plant may be experiencing meltdown. #Japan
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. AP now

BreakingNews Breaking News
Japan nuclear safety commission official says meltdown at nuclear power plant possible - AP
11 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[AtheistCrusader]

96. AFP again: No meltdown.

"Tokyo Electric Power Company, tells AFP: "We believe the reactor is not melting down or cracking. We are trying to raise the water level.""

[AtheistCrusader]

94. Breaking: Reuters pressure in Reactor three falling back to normal.

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

Reactor 1 still at risk of meltdown.


"Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) says temperature of Fukushima Daini No.3 reactor core has fallen back below 100 degrees Celsius. The temperature had earlier risen above that level when control of pressure was lost."

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Definitely NOT GOOD

maddow Rachel Maddow MSNBC
link to very bad news NHK meltdown report: http://bit.ly/dGav8u
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

maddow Rachel Maddow MSNBC
NHK reporting venting is suspended due to high radiation levels - concern over pressure and possible damage to containment vessel.
3 minutes ago

[AtheistCrusader]

98. Yo someone tell him to unblock me so he can see I didn't insult him.

This is ridiculous.

[yodermon]

102. Radiation leak confirmed at quake-hit Fukushima plant

Source: The Japan Times

Kyodo News

Radiation rose to an unusually high level in and near Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant Saturday following the powerful earthquake that hit northern Japan the previous day, the nuclear safety agency said, making it the first case of an external leak of radioactive substances since the disaster.

While the agency denied the radiation amount will pose an immediate threat to the health of nearby residents, the impact of the quake appeared to widen as the agency added the area close to the Fukushima No. 2 nuclear plant as a zone that requires evacuation.

Given the adjacent No. 2 plant also has quake-triggered malfunctions, the operator of the two plants in Fukushima Prefecture is set to release pressure in containers housing their reactors under an unprecedented government order, so as to avoid the plants sustaining damage and losing their critical containment function.

But the action would involve the release of steam that would likely include radioactive materials.


Read more: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110312x3.html

[Duer 157099]

103. Is that Fuk u or Fuk us?

Either way, someone is getting fucked.

[StarryNite]

105. You just answered my question. n/t

[StarryNite]

104. Fukushima

Does anybody else see the irony in that name?

[texastoast]

106. Oh, say it isn't so!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=619749&mesg_id=620028

[xchrom]

107. Recommend

[defendandprotect]

108. Is it not ironic -- in the selling ice to the Eskimos sense -- that Japan.....

struck by our atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nogasaki -- and made so brutally aware

of the horrors of radiation and the suffering of their citizens at our hands --

nonetheless went forward with nuclear reactors?

[Eljo_Don]

111. reactors

Because they tell us that nuclear energy is super clean, and it is the energy of the.the future. What the he** are they doing with the depleted fuel that is highly radioactive. Are the nuclear corps. full of morons?

[defendandprotect]

114. Exactly -- in a post by someone else the "storage pools" in Japan may cause

additional problems -- I'll see if I can find the post for you -- !!


Here it is --


That's not the scary part
The scary part is the storage pool for nuclear fuel rods that is also not circulating, which means, according to the article, that the fuel rods will boil off the water in a day or so, then burst into flames. The pool is OUTSIDE the plant and has no containment dome.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4766667&mesg_id=4766804

[abqmufc]

116. Forbes article /cooling ponds.

Thanks for the heads up. Here is the story from Forbes.

Risk of Nuclear Catastrophe Escalates in Japan – ‘Worse than Chernobyl’ - William Pentland



"“In addition to the reactor cores, the storage pool for highly radioactive irradiated nuclear fuel is also at risk. The pool cooling water must be continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling water. Within a day or two, the pool’s water could completely boil away. Without cooling water, the irradiated nuclear fuel could spontaneously combust in an exothermic reaction. Since the storage pools are not located within containment, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment could occur. Up to 100 percent of the volatile radioactive Cesium-137 content of the pools could go up in flames and smoke, to blow downwind over large distances. Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago.”"

http://blogs.forbes.com/williampentland/2011/03/11/risk-of-nuclear-catastrophe-escalates-in-japan-worse-than-chernobyl/

[defendandprotect]

266. If Obama continues to push to subsidize new nuclear plants here, I want a RECALL -- !!

[abqmufc]

272. I'm already at that point.

Which saddens me b/c he was my last hope. I'd given up when W. stole the election and the Supreme Court gave him the White House. I was ready to leave the country and never look back. But being born in Springfield, IL I bought into the hype of Obama early on, seeing Obama on the steps of the Old State Capital announcing his running gave me hope. Boy was I a gullible SOB.

[defendandprotect]

275. Well, a little different for me --

I took a chance on Obama because everyone else was so impressed with him --

but I should have known because I couldn't listen to his speeches. However,

no matter what you think you know, you can't go anywhere alone. This whole

thing has to move together as a huge voting block. And it is huge.

All we're facing is what citizens have always faced -- corruption of government --

organized criminal activity.

But will agree with this -- everyone needs their BS meters turned waaay up higher!!

TV is a large part of our problem --

What everyone has to understand is how fake everything the right wing does --

As Cheney said, "The rightwing creates the reality and the rest of you live it" --


Keep in mind that every issue the right wing resurrects is something long settled in

the past -- they're pulling it out of mothballs -- ignoring all arguments and rules

against it and using naked power to put it back in play. They are barreling through --

refusing to blink, refusing to back down. I also fear that the Koch Bros. T-BAGGERS

have been created expressly to try to increase the aggressiveness of our political

discussions -- from coming to town hall meetings with rifles slung over their shoulders --

to spitting on members of Congress.


There's only one way the right wing can rise and that's via political violence and we've

had 50+ years of that and more. That and stolen elections, of course. And lies.


The GOP gave start up funds for the Christian Coalition in the 1980's --

Richard Scaife funded Dobson's organization and other wealthy right wingers financed

Bauer's group.

The GOP/"pro-lifers" have closed clinics by bombing them and murdering doctors --

seemingly funded by militia groups -- but they also went to methadone clinics to hire

protesters to stand outside clinics.

They politicized the NRA and used it to target liberals and moderates in both parties.

The Koch Bros. are now financing the T-BAGGERS thru Freedom Works a PR firm which

guarantees them publicity.

It's all faked -- and more.


This is a liberal nation -- and the proof of that is the reality that the right wing

has to control every possible avenue for truth reaching the public. Not only our

"free press" but newspapers, radio, publishing houses, libraries, on and on.

Any bit of truth is like a pebble hitting a mirror -- it shatters rw myths!


Stick with other Democrats and keep trying to find a way to overturn this fascism!

Keep on tossin' those pebbles!


:)



And just in case you didn't know this ...

Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

and if you did know it -- why didn't you tell us?

[certainot]

109. no problem, the release of steam may require that our cells mutate

and keep mutating.

we are downstream from japan.

[christx30]

115. I'm hoping that

I get some kind of cool power like Wolverine's super healing. Not something stupid.. like Toad's power.

[certainot]

117. toad power! with poisonous pustules

[abqmufc]

110. Maybe not "immediate" threat..but long term threat likely

As with most nuclear accidents, impacts to health (including death) often comes years after exposure. The development of tumors and illness takes time, and sometimes is not seen until the next generation is born (in the form of birth defects).

Another concern we won't discuss is the introduction of radioactivity into the food chain via fish in the Pacific Ocean.

[ananda]

113. Yeah, what does not an immediate threat mean exactly?

You don't die immediately, but you suffer all the effects of radiation
down the line. Sheesh.

I hate spin and propaganda sometimes.

[abqmufc]

112. Link to Hanford Nuclear Reservation release data - WA state

A link which has some good data/info on the release of nuclear and non-nuclear materials into the air at the Hanford facility during the Cold War. I suspect this data may be similar to what we may see occurring in Japan with the venting of the reactors.

You can click on the left hand side of the page to get health data, impacts, etc.

Enjoy!

The site is Washington Physicians for Social Responsibility Hanford Task Force.
http://www.psr.org/chapters/washington/hanford/

[Turborama]

118. Japan has 53 nuclear power plants and sits on a very active part of the "Ring of Fire"

http://www.nucleartourist.com/world/japan.htm">Japan has 53 nuclear power plants


The Recent Seismic Activity Around Japan

[wtmusic]

119. Snap analysis: Japan may have hours to prevent nuclear meltdown

Source: Reuters

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Japanese officials may only have hours to cool reactors that have been disabled by Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami or face a nuclear meltdown.

Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) (9501.T) is racing to cool down the reactor core after a highly unusual "station blackout" -- the total loss of power necessary to keep water circulating through the plant to prevent overheating.

Daiichi Units 1, 2 and 3 reactors shut down automatically at 2:46 p.m. local time due to the earthquake. But about an hour later, the on-site diesel back-up generators also shut, leaving the reactors without alternating current (AC) power.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-us-analysis-idUSTRE72B04C20110312

[aquart]

120. I am trying to pretend this has nothing to do with me.

But it's not really working.

[northoftheborder]

121. Really scary. It could happen in Cal.

[DirkGently]

122. Oh boy.

[rug]

123. .

[uppityperson]

124. Good luck to them and ARGH for the use of "may" in a news article.

[somone]

125. Not good at all

[godai]

126. True... 3 Mile Island type partial core meltdown.

CNN covered this, No chance of Chernobyl like situation (rods have been dropped to safety. But, need to cool the temp or the core can crack.

[Paradoxical]

127. No chance of Chernobyl because Chernobyl had no containment dome.

When the reactor had an excursion and the flash point of liquid water was reached, the entire reactor exploded. And since there was no containment dome, the explosion blew the top off of the reactor building.

[abqmufc]

133. Forbes article quote disagrees (link)

Found this tonight....argue it if you will but I'll accept his credentials and concerns. Storage pools are NOT contained inside any dome.

"Risk of Nuclear Catastrophe Escalates in Japan – ‘Worse than Chernobyl’"
Forbes by William Pentland, March 11, 2011
(the article quotes The Institute for Public Accuracy nuclear expert, Kevin Kamp)
.......“In addition to the reactor cores, the storage pool for highly radioactive irradiated nuclear fuel is also at risk. The pool cooling water must be continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling water. Within a day or two, the pool’s water could completely boil away. Without cooling water, the irradiated nuclear fuel could spontaneously combust in an exothermic reaction. Since the storage pools are not located within containment, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment could occur. Up to 100 percent of the volatile radioactive Cesium-137 content of the pools could go up in flames and smoke, to blow downwind over large distances. Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago.”....

http://blogs.forbes.com/williampentland/2011/03/11/risk-of-nuclear-catastrophe-escalates-in-japan-worse-than-chernobyl/

Even if it doesn't boil off or catch fire, it IS right now boiling off and emitting radioactive materials into the air, it will fail eventually and possibly into the ocean and hit the food chain. One thing is for certain the true impact won't be know for at least one generation if not 2.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

135. I hope you"re right

but you are talking out of your ass.

[Vanje]

297. In retrospect

.... FAIL

The Titanic was unsinkable, also.

[AtheistCrusader]

128. Won't be like TMI either. PWR versus BWR.

At the moment, I think the worst we are ACTUALLY facing is a very expensive repair process for these reactors.

[Adsos Letter]

130. And the lack of electrical power they provided, I suppose.

Bound to make recovery that much harder.

[AtheistCrusader]

131. That too.

Which will impact food supplies and everything else, to say nothing of the farmland lost, the fishermen, fishing harbor, and boats/equipment.

Truly awful in scope. But yeah, power loss will be considerable, and will also drive up their consumption of fossil fuels.

[Strelnikov_]

129. One, two, or all six reactors at this site?

Cause, gee, I'm sure that a meltdown at one reactor won't even 'muss the hair' on the cooling feed water systems on the other five.

Hell, every Engineer knows that you should lump 5 GW of capacity in six reactors into one location . . get them e con o mies of scale workin . . cause mostly nothing ever goes wrong . . . mostly.

[AtheistCrusader]

132. 1-3 are all at risk for the same reasons. 4-6 were offline at the time of the quake

for maintenence. 7 and 8 are under construction.

Might be a boon. 4,5,6 might be easier to bring back online, and are probably eyed as a source of coolant sysem power.

[WheelWalker]

134. ...mostly...

[wtmusic]

136. Japanese government demands Tepco open valve at Fukushima #1

Source: BusinessInsider.com (Kyodo)

Government holds emergency meeting on the plant, and is taking unprecedented stap of demanding the plant open a key valve.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GLHHKUy0



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3

[jannyk]

137. Their government is full of Nuclear Experts? Wow, we had a President

that couldn't even pronounce the word.

[msongs]

138. "their" country is full of nuke power plants, why would this be a surprise? Maybe unlike OUR

government they actually oversee these plants and don't trust the corporations who run them

[defendandprotect]

140. No matter who oversees and runs them there is human error and there is Global Warming ...

and Japan was, of course, earth-quake prone -- !!

[AtheistCrusader]

145. Um... Global Warming? What the hell does that have to do with this?

[defendandprotect]

150. Global Warming is increasing earthquakes -- in number and severity ....

[AtheistCrusader]

153. Is it now? Based on what?

Earthquakes haven't increased in number or severity in the last 100 years.

What is your source?

[defendandprotect]

155. Global Warming will increase earthquake activity and intensity --

that was according to a Pentagon Warning to W Bush -- where they made clear

that Global Warming was a greater threat to US than "terrorism."

The original Warning included "earthquakes" -- it's since been scrubbed.

It also included, of course, droughts/floods, cyclones, tornadoes, hurricanes --

chaotic weather.

And, if I am not mistaken this earthquake in Japan sets a new record for severity?



There are many explanations for this -- there are others here at DU who can explain it

to you, but glacier melting increasing plate shift.

If you noticed this earthquake also shifted earth's axis by 10cm --

Additionally, we also know that the dams and reservoirs the Army Corps of Engineers

built after the New Deal and onward are "impacting the rotation of the earth" --

according to a NY Times article about 20 years ago.


What we do is not without consequence -- capitalism is suicidal in its exploitation of

nature -- and we are all part of nature.

[AtheistCrusader]

156. Not a record at all.

It's in the top five of instrumented and recorded human history. But not a record.

Global warming is more likely a greater threat via access to fresh water, fertile land and food. If it was ever included in that list, and was scrubbed, it was likely scrubbed as a mistake.

Whether it can impact earthquakes is another matter altogether. One way earthquakes can be triggered is via fault lubrication. Lets say you melt all the glaciers in the US, and the water is gone. You may actually have a net decrease in earthquakes because water tables will drop and fault lubrication will be reduced. Melting ice in antarctica might relieve pressure on a plate that might increase, or possibly decrease earthquakes.

If redistributing loads on a plate via dams and other means via human engineering is altering earthquakes, it is likely only shifting them around or making them come sooner or later. We do not drive the processes that build up strain in the earth's crust. It's been there since before humans evolved, and it will be there after we are gone.

[defendandprotect]

157. Anything above 8 is described as a GREAT earthquake ...

As for the other stuff, it seems deaf to what Global Warming is actually about, its

severity now and the conditions it is causing.

Seismologists measure earthquakes on a scale of magnitude which indicates severity of the quake. A magnitude 3-4 is considered minor, 5-7 moderately strong, a quake of 7-8 is major and 8 or above is great.

I'd also add that it's likely that volcanic activity should have been added to the

Pentagon's list!!


Recent earthquakes in Chile, Taiwan, Haiti, and now Turkey and other areas raise the concerns of many across the globe. What is happening to our world? Does this herald the end of this planet and life as we know it? While scientists dismiss these events as a normal part of the process, others are beginning to wonder just want is going on. That our planet is undergoing drastic change is no longer in doubt. Where we are headed is anybody's guess, but one thing is sure---we may be on the cusp of major earthquake activity, and as a consequence increased volcanic activity might answer the issues produced by global warming.

And now add New Zealand and Japan to that --



http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2775162/recent_earthquakes_may_herald_more.html?cat=58

[AtheistCrusader]

158. There is no recent uptick in frequency or strength of earthquakes.

None. Nada. This has been brought up and tamped back down with actual statistical analysis so many times, it's maddening. Just like the morons that were sending around the 'A SUPERMOON CAUSED IT' crap this morning on the DailyMail 'news' site in the UK. Nevermind that the moon hits perigee in 8 days.

[defendandprotect]

161. Disagree --

Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis and landslides are some of the additional catastrophes that climate change and its rising sea levels and melting glaciers could bring, a geologist says.

http://www.livescience.com/7366-global-warming-spur-earthquakes-volcanoes.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/feb/22/usnews.theobserver

The latest revelations have triggered warnings from scientists that they no longer have the funds to keep a comprehensive track of climate change. Last week the head of the US's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), Professor Jane Lubchenco, warned that the gathering of satellite data - crucial to predicting future climate changes - was now at "great risk" because America's ageing satellite fleet was not being replaced.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/26/climate-change-obama-administration


Additionally Pentagon issued a Warning to W. Bush re Global Warming --

which originally included "earthquakes" -- it was later scrubbed.

I'd also suggest that volcanic activity should have been included in that warning.

You might also recall that during the Bush administration we saw numerous instances of lying

and falsifying of public documents -- such as a report on Global Warming and an EPA report

on air quality in NYC after 9/11 -- among many other lies.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=617007&mesg_id=621162

[defendandprotect]

163. Japan suffered repeated earthquakes today --

New quakes rock tsunami-devastated Japan


SENDAI, Japan – Huge earthquakes rocked northeastern Japan on Saturday, a day after a giant temblor set off a powerful tsunami that killed hundreds of people, turned the coast into a swampy wasteland and left two nuclear reactors dangerously close to meltdown.

The United States Geological Survey said a strong earthquake struck just before noon in the sea in virtually the same place where the magnitude 8.9 quake on Friday unleashed one of the greatest disasters Japan has witnessed — a 23-foot (7-meter) tsunami that washed far inland over fields and smashed towns.

Saturday's magnitude 6.8 quake was followed by a series of temblors originating from the same area, the USGS said. It was not immediately known whether the new quakes caused any more damage. All were part of the more than 125 aftershocks since Friday's massive quake, the strongest to hit Japan since officials began keeping records in the late 1800s.

It ranked as the fifth-largest earthquake in the world since 1900 and was nearly 8,000 times stronger than one that devastated Christchurch, New Zealand, last month, scientists said.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake

[AtheistCrusader]

165. That is normal in conjunction with a large quake.

THIS IS NOT a statistical abberation. Go ask someone at the USGS if you don't believe me.

[defendandprotect]

265. They are new earthquakes ...

[AtheistCrusader]

269. There are always new earthquakes.

All around the globe. You have not demonstrated a statistical increase in the severity or number of earthquakes around the world, that could possibly be correlated to global warming.

GW is a real problem. Please do not confuse the issue with imaginary threats.

[defendandprotect]

276. 140 new aftershocks after the massive earthquake in Japan -- !!

but that's just more "don't worry, be happy" to you, eh?



:rofl:

[AtheistCrusader]

287. That's perfectly normal for this kind of seismic event.

Potentially dangerous to human life, but fine, for the planet.

It has NOTHING to do with AGW.

[defendandprotect]

283. Japan is repeatedly suffering new earthquakes in aftershocks which

rank as earthquakes -- and some have done the damage of earthquakes --

they are so forceful that there is worry of another tsunami -- !!!

[AtheistCrusader]

288. And there can, and possibly will be.

THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL. We see this in Sumatra. We saw this a couple months ago on the Cali/Mexico border. We saw this in Iran. We've seen this sort of thing for a very very long time. It is NORMAL.

Dangerous and unsettling to humans, but normal.

[defendandprotect]

289. It certainly isn't NORMAL-- it is anything but NORMAL --

and it eerie to see anyone even say anything like that --

but then, that seems to be your role here --

Bye -- you're an obvious waste of everyone's time --

[AtheistCrusader]

290. Don't take my word for it. Ask any geologist.

Or, live in fantasy land. I don't care which.

[defendandprotect]

291. "Fantasy"? Whose? Earthquake has been upgraded to a 9 and two reactors now in meltdown...!!

You're on IGNORE --

[AtheistCrusader]

292. I will repeat again. There is nothing unusual about the earthquake itself.

Nor the follow-up quakes. Nor the foreshocks. Nor the strength of the main shock.

There is no statistical increase in frequency or strength of the earthquakes around the world that corresponds with anthropogenic global warming. None. Please cite some if you can.

If you are reading something else into what I am saying, it is in your imagination. Period.
By all means, put me on ignore this time.

[zappaman]

295. LOL!

D & P just making shit up again.
And when called out on it, uses the "ignore" button.
75% of DU must be on her list!
Too funny!

[Sal Minella]

144. Oversee? Oversee? But . . . but wouldn't that make the

corporations feel like they're not trusted?

This wouldn't happen in the US.

[Eljo_Don]

154. Nuclear reactors

Haven't you seen "The Simpsons" and how Omero manage the reactor security?

[Sal Minella]

264. Actually no, I've never seen an episode of The Simpsons, or

2.5 men or Desperate Housewives or Sex and the City or any of the other garbage kept flowing endlessly in front of Americans to distract them from the powers running their lives.

[MineralMan]

139. We've had more than one President who couldn't pronounce the

word "nuclear," including one who was a nuclear engineer. I'm not sure that pronunciation is a clear indication of competence, although GWB certainly had no competence. President Carter, though, understood the industry very well, despite his mispronunciation.

[defendandprotect]

141. Thank you for all of the info -- frightening -- and we can see we're all "Downwinders" ....

[xchrom]

142. Kinda like BP had lots of experts - except they didn't - and the government

Had to cover for that lack.

[Psephos]

146. Agree about BP - but disagree about government "experts"

The BP incident showed that government is as abjectly incompetent as an oil company when it comes to deep water drilling.

[xchrom]

149. Not 'incompetent' - 'complicit' .

The EPA and other agencies really do look like they are
Aiding and Abetting bad behavior.

Time will tell of course.

[defendandprotect]

151. +1000% -- Oil is now a "national security issue" -- MIC uses 80% of our oil --

BP and MIC are therefore linked -- and certainly Obama is linked in that chain -- !!

[Psephos]

162. yep n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

143. Update 7:51: 20,000 people evacuated an expert who thinks there is only a few hours until meltdown

"Update 7:51: At least 20,000 people are being evacuated from the region says Reuters, which ominously quotes an expert who thinks there may be just a few hours until meltdown"

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GLNGmS2e

[Strelnikov_]

147. One, two, or all six reactors at this site? n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

159. Three are technically at risk. Three were offline, and two are under construction.

[Kelvin Mace]

148. That's not the scary part

The scary part is the storage pool for nuclear fuel rods that is also not circulating, which means, according to the article, that the fuel rods will boil off the water in a day or so, then burst into flames. The pool is OUTSIDE the plant and has no containment dome.

[defendandprotect]

152. Insane -- meanwhile should we all survive this -- if Obama persists in subsidizing more

nuclear reactors ... I'm for a RECALL!!

[AtheistCrusader]

160. We will survive this fine, and nuclear power will continue.

Yes, this is a serious issue, but it is being MASSIVELY OVER-HYPED.

[defendandprotect]

285. Nonsense ... survival isn't only about living -- but how you live ...

and anyone advocating nuclear power still has to be fond of destruction!

[TheMadMonk]

164. Not a "meltdown". The reactors are fully shut down. They're just still hotter than Hades...

...with residual heat. Without sufficient cooling, there's a chance the reactor core could turn itself into slag, but essentially none that it can become a raging nulear inferno like Chernobyl.

The simple thing is that the operators would rather not let matters reach the point where the last ditch defences kick in, because they would very much prefer to repair and restart than have to rebuild the bloody things from scratch.

All things considered, the potential threat from the reactors is far, far smaller than that presented by the burning oil refineries and innumerable gas fires from ruptured pipelines, springing up about the place. The evacuations are I think very much precautionary. No one expects the safety systems to fail, they are simply aware that those systems have never been put to such extreme test and would rather not take any chances.

The "radioactive vapour" being released is steam with a very small amount of tritium in it. A chronic release (even a small one) as has been discovered happening with the Vermont plants is cause for concern, if not alarm. In Japan what is being done is a short term "acute" release which will quickly dissipate on the wind, and unlike some of the components of the fallout from Chernobyl, tritium does not bio-concentrate, so it won't turn up unexpectedly in your milk or eggs.

[Snoutport]

167. NUKE PLANT: METLDOWN FEARS, 20,000 Evacuated, Government Holds Emergency Meeting, Radiation Levels 1

Source: Business Insider Reuters

Update 4:43 PM: Now according to Kyodo, radiation is measured at 1000x normal.
Update 5:05: The entire world is now watching the Fukushima plant. Here's a llink to a satellite image of the plant, just to get some more perspective on where this is.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMQH8cKy

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMNfJA81

---

THere is alink embedded that has a camera on the reactor

[FedUpWithIt All]

168. KyodoNews: BREAKING NEWS: Radioactive Cesium detected near Fukushima plant: nuke safety commission

BREAKING NEWS: Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

I hope, beyond hope, they can get it under control.

[FedUpWithIt All]

171. Meltdown would possibly affect a 6 km range

From AP via Steve Herman: A meltdown would potentially put humans at risk within a 6 KM range.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMUdc3AX

[snagglepuss]

177. From what I recall the affected radius from Three Mile was much greater than 6 miles.

I find this puzzling.

[RaleighNCDUer]

187. Perhaps, as this plant is on the ocean, the prevailing winds would

direct any radioactive plume over the sea - limiting the potential danger to people on land.

[snagglepuss]

230. How odd. I just read someone who had the same recollection as me.

It's a comment on BradBlog-

Brad, I was a 'youn'un' in Pennsylvania during the Three Mile Island fiasco... although I was in Pittsburgh, nearly 200 miles from TMI, I distinctly remember an 'expert' on one of our local radio talk shows saying that at 200 miles even if the reactor melted down we were probably safe for now.

It was terrifying, and I am sure it would be even more so in an island nation with limited evacuation capacity.

[WheelWalker]

169. Oh.

[kestrel91316]

170. I note the absence herein of comments from our resident rabid pro-nuke DUer.......

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. We have a couple and he will will be here soon

telling us why we should just move along

They also have found Cesiium

[IScreamSundays]

173. probably will be by soon to tell us it is not even as

bad as getting a sunburn.

[JDPriestly]

180. Doesn't dare show his face!!!

[slay]

174. Subject was cut off - says: "Radiation levels 1000x normal."

i see it was posted in the body of the text though. scary shit.

[1776Forever]

175. This is a great live blog site from Reuters - Up to date live blogs on Japan Nuke Issues:

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

[WheelWalker]

176. I'm having a snack of frozen blueberries. Antioxidants tonight;

it'll be radioisotopes in the morning.

[Duer 157099]

182. I had some fresh blueberries earlier

I'll follow up tomorrow morning with a potassium iodide chaser maybe

[IScreamSundays]

178. now it says that they may be having a meltdown

Update 3/12 12:26: Now a headline from Kyodo Wire: Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown. From AP via Steve Herman: A meltdown would potentially put humans at risk within a 6 KM range. What is a nuclear meltdown? Wikipedia has a good primer. WSJ: Authorities pouring water into reactor to "stop the meltdown."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMm4s4i0

[IScreamSundays]

179. now it says that they may be having a meltdown

Update 3/12 12:26: Now a headline from Kyodo Wire: Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown. From AP via Steve Herman: A meltdown would potentially put humans at risk within a 6 KM range. What is a nuclear meltdown? Wikipedia has a good primer. WSJ: Authorities pouring water into reactor to "stop the meltdown."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMm4s4i0

[buddysmellgood]

181. I just want to point out that your 666th post was about a meltdown.

[Duer 157099]

183. Where's the link to the camera on the reactor?

I tried to find it but couldn't.

[Tx4obama]

184. From AJ Live Blog: 45,000 people told to evacuate

8:17am

A total of 45,000 people living within a 10km radius of the Fukushima nuclear power plant have now been told to evacuate their homes - a steep rise on the 3,000 who were told to leave yesterday evening.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/live-blog-japan-earthquake#update-10551

[IScreamSundays]

186. !!!

3:04pm
Japanese nuclear authorities say there is a high possibility that nuclear fuel rods at a reactor at Tokyo Electric Power Company's (TEPC) Fukushima Daiichi plant may be melting or have melted, Jiji news agency reports.

Experts have said that if the fuel rods have been damaged, it means that it could develop into a breach of the nuclear reactor vessel and the question then becomes one of how strong the containment structure around the vessel is and whether it has been undermined by the earthquake – and if it can withstand the likely aftershocks.

[WheelWalker]

185. MSNBC says it's official...

It could be happening

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[Turborama]

188. 45,000 people living within a 10km radius of the Fukushima nuclear power plant told to evacuate

Link to more details in this OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x621219#621434

[OmahaBlueDog]

191. Nuclear emergency declared at quake-damaged reactor

Source: Asheville Citizen Times (Gannett)

Japanese authorities are venting radioactive steam into the air after the earthquake on Friday critically damaged a nuclear reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plant.

The Japanese government on Friday declared a nuclear emergency at Tokyo Electric Power's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station after the reactor's cooling system failed. The government ordered thousands of people living within 6 miles of the plant to evacuate. Early Saturday, it declared a nuclear emergency at a second power plant where a cooling system had also failed.


Read more: http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20110311/NEWS/110311049/1035/ENT04/Nuclear-emergency-declared-quake-damaged-reactor-?odyssey=nav%7Chead

[HCE SuiGeneris]

192. Damn

Update 3/12 12:19 AM: This just came from Reuters on twitter... REUTERS FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji

Fukushima:

Update 5:33: Both reactors at the plant have been damaged, and officials say they have "lost control" of the pressure, according to Reuters.

Update 7:39: The latest from Kyodo Wire: Government holds emergency meeting on the plant, and is taking unprecedented stap of demanding the plant open a key valve.

Update 7:51: At least 20,000 people are being evacuated from the region says Reuters, which ominously quotes an expert who thinks there may be just a few hours until meltdown.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMNfJA81

[tabatha]

193. Possible meltdown

Update 3/12 12:19 AM: This just came from Reuters on twitter... REUTERS FLASH: #Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji

Update 3/12/ 12:26: Now a headline from Kyodo Wire: Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GMOetqUg

But don't worry, all is supposed to be fine .....

[HCE SuiGeneris]

195. Don't worry.

The government has control of the situation.



:(

[AtheistCrusader]

196. Still has containment housing, unlike chernobyl.

[RaleighNCDUer]

198. You understand what 'venting' means?

Radiation OUTSIDE the containment.

Just to be clear on that.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

199. Ding.

I can't imagine the fear they are experiencing over there along with the after shocks.

[abqmufc]

201. If you live on the West coast you may find out soon.

West coast will see the plume first if it makes it that far. I recall the Makah Nation's air quality monitors being the first in the nation to pick particles from fires in China as well as particles from dust storms in the Gobi desert. The Makah are just outside the Olympic National Park area of WA state. Thus Northern WA, as well as Alaska will pick up plume's first, but they could spread across the Western USA.

Even if it doesn't hit the US, it will impact fisheries in the Pacific Ocean.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

203. Santa Cruz. We just had 3 M worth of damage in the harbor from the tsunami.

sigh

[abqmufc]

205. It is a might...

and I'll admit most call me a tin hat when it comes to the nuclear threat. However, I live in state that still has over 300 uranium tailings piles left on Navajo land after the last wave of uranium mining in the USA.

I fear our impact will be seen in toxic fish and wildlife in the Pacific.

Sorry to hear about the harbor...all of it is sad to see.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

208. The inability to dispose "safely" of the byproduct, and the catastrophic implications associated

with a meltdown, are ample reason to shun nuclear power at this time.

I'm so sorry for the portending damage of the spent fuel, laying-in-wait...

[defendandprotect]

280. True -- and it seems only INTERNET is pointing to storage pool dangers .....

Been viewing a bit of CNN and BBC coverage -- didn't notice any mention of it!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

220. It depends on whether it breaks the containment or not

I hope it stays "contained" and the venting they have done is pretty limited and prevents vessel breach. Venting is a faustian choice, but less bad than breach.

Breach... I will have to think about it anyway.

[abqmufc]

229. Pools are risk are not containable they are outside....

[nadinbrzezinski]

231. I know, hell of a way to boil water

[AtheistCrusader]

247. Little easier to flood/circulate those with portable water and power sources.

Much more feasible than the core of a reactor.

I'm assuming that's already been dealth with, but time will tell. If they didn't, the risk is far greater than the actual reactor itself, because the actual reactor likely has intact containment. Probably greater threat from the storage pools than the reactor even if the reactor had a truck-sized hole all the way through.

[abqmufc]

260. Also easy for them to be breached and wash out to sea...

similar to coal slurry pools being breached. I thought I'd read one such pool was breached and waste went out to Sea....but I can't find the link at the moment. It seems like from all reports that the temp rose quickly and either they could not react fast enough or didn't react fast enough. Now it just seems like attempting to make it look good before up to 4 reactors go critical.

[defendandprotect]

284. Exactly ... and would we know this if it had happened?

[defendandprotect]

281. Supposedly still contained from what I heard earlier this evening on TV ...

that would be either CNN or BBC which I watched for a while --

but what happens if it doesn't remain contained?

Still they would need to brick this over -- cement it -- bury it?

Actually, I know I have to go review the 3 Mile Island stuff and I'm reluctant

to do it -- probably Chernoby, as well.

But -- if Obama goes forward with these huge subsidies for new generations of

nuclear plants here -- I want a RECALL!!



:nuke:

[AtheistCrusader]

207. Which can be stopped with the turn of a valve. They are venting it on purpose.

And they have turned it off, due to increased radiation detection. It is no longer venting.

[abqmufc]

200. Please read this....Cooling ponds NOT covered. R at risk.

Risk of Nuclear Catastrophe Escalates in Japan – ‘Worse than Chernobyl’
by William Pentland

..... (commets made by Institute for Public Accuracy nuclear expert, Kevin Kamp. "Kamps is a specialist in nuclear waste at Beyond Nuclear and conducted research last year assessing the state of nuclear facilities in Japan.")

“In addition to the reactor cores, the storage pool for highly radioactive irradiated nuclear fuel is also at risk. The pool cooling water must be continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling water. Within a day or two, the pool’s water could completely boil away. Without cooling water, the irradiated nuclear fuel could spontaneously combust in an exothermic reaction. Since the storage pools are not located within containment, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment could occur. Up to 100 percent of the volatile radioactive Cesium-137 content of the pools could go up in flames and smoke, to blow downwind over large distances. Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago.”...

http://blogs.forbes.com/williampentland/2011/03/11/risk-of-nuclear-catastrophe-escalates-in-japan-worse-than-chernobyl/

[grahamhgreen]

197. First the bombs and now this... Ugh.

[snappyturtle]

194. So sad.

[WheelWalker]

202. Move along...nothing happening here.

[Tx4obama]

204. From AJ Live Blog: 45,000 people told to evacuate

8:17am

A total of 45,000 people living within a 10km radius of the Fukushima nuclear power plant have now been told to evacuate their homes - a steep rise on the 3,000 who were told to leave yesterday evening.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/live-blog-japan-earthquake#update-10551

[MilesColtrane]

206. What a horrible dilemma.

Leak slow poison into the air, or try to contain it risking a catastrophic breach and release.

Just how many backup systems had to fail for these plants to get to this point?

Alaska will probably get the worst of it.

[WheelWalker]

228. Skunk in the house.

The stink is already in there. The only question is how much, and when it is released. Skunk in the house.

[CHIMO]

209. Japan issues state of emergency at 2nd nuclear plant

Source: CBC News

Breaking Japan issues state of emergency at 2nd nuclear plant

The Japanese government declared has issued a state of emergency at a second nuclear power plant following cooling-systems failures.

The emergency declarations followed Friday's 8.9-magnitude earthquake off the country's northeast coast. The quake, the most powerful in Japan's recorded history, triggered a massive tsunami wave.

At the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Onahama city, about 270 kilometres northeast of Tokyo, a power failure triggered a problem in a cooling system, causing radiation levels in a reactor to rise to 1,000 times normal. Japan's nuclear safety agency said some radiation escaped from the plant.

The quake cut off power to the plant, . A backup generator failed and the primary cooling system was not able to supply water to the plant's 460-megawatt No. 1 reactor.



Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/11/earthquake-japan-nuclear-reactor.html

[northoftheborder]

210. OK. I'm now officially in panic mode.

[NightWatcher]

211. but nuclear is so much cleaner than.....

[bananas]

212. direct link to the story

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/11/earthquake-japan-nuclear-reactor.html

[Tx4obama]

213. Earlier today on HuffPo an article said there were problems at THREE plants.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/11/japan-earthquake-tsunami_n_834380.html

[AtheistCrusader]

217. One turbine caught fire at Onagawa reactor site.

But the ones in trouble are reactors 1-3 at Fukushima Daiichi (4-5-6 were offline for maintenence) and 1-2 at Fukushima Daini

[Tx4obama]

214. Update - FIVE 'units' now under 'state of emergency'

via Twitter

AJELive

#Japan: Five nuclear reactor units at #Fukushima now under "state of emergency".
More on #AlJazeera's liveblog: http://aje.me/gkeOYd

[Dappleganger]

215. Holy shit!

[AtheistCrusader]

218. Clam down.

[WheelWalker]

224. I'm eating mushrooms.

Shield's up.

[CHIMO]

216. Japan declares emergencies at 2 nuclear plants

Japan has declared states of emergency for five nuclear reactors at two power plants following cooling systems failures that led to radiation escaping from one reactor.

The emergency declarations followed Friday's 8.9-magnitude earthquake off the country's northeast coast. The quake, the most powerful in Japan's recorded history, triggered a massive tsunami wave.

At the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Onahama city, about 270 kilometres northeast of Tokyo, a power failure triggered a problem in a cooling system, causing radiation levels in a reactor to rise to 1,000 times normal.

Japan Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency official Ryohei Shiomi said a monitoring device outside the plant detected radiation that is eight times higher than normal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/11/earthquake-japan-nuclear-reactor.html

[fascisthunter]

219. isn't nuclear energy awesome?!

yes, it is, too awesome in fact, and because it is such a dire risk to human life, maybe the world needs to slow the fuck down working for the greedy rich.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

222. Think I'll go bask in it in about 3 days...

Damn. Going to put on some Joni Mtchell and sing about California.

Our poor children have inherited a cluster fuck.

[nadinbrzezinski]

221. Ok kids, we have a meltdown, they just need to make it official

they have detected cesium per NHK crawler. Guess when you get Cesium? When you get the reaction going.

Piece of trivia, cesium is also what drives the core of the x-ray machine at your Dentist.

[Tx4obama]

225. Updates from the Twitter feed of Rachel Maddow

http://twitter.com/maddow

maddow: link to very bad news NHK meltdown report: http://bit.ly/dGav8u about 1 hour ago via Mobile Web

maddow: NHK reporting venting is suspended due to high radiation levels - concern over pressure and possible damage to containment vessel. about 1 hour ago via Mobile Web

maddow: Nuclear safety commission in Japan cites cesium detection -- may mean a nuclear meltdown has occurred at fukushima. about 1 hour ago via Mobile Web

[nadinbrzezinski]

226. AJE updtate

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

3:45pm
Japanese officials and experts have dismissed suggestions of a repeat of a Chernobyl-type disaster.

"No Chernobyl is possible at a light water reactor. Loss of coolant means a temperature rise, but it also will stop the reaction," Naoto Sekimura, a professor at the University of Tokyo, says.

Even in the worst-case scenario, that would mean some radioactive leakage and equipment damage, but not an explosion. If venting is done carefully, there will be little leakage. Certainly not beyond the 3 km radius.

[nadinbrzezinski]

227. Local Prof sounding like a few people here

nothing to see here.

Yet, I suspect this professor has not kept up with the latest, including the cesium detection.

Or... a fan of nuclear energy and former employee at ... SAN ONOFRE

[Arrowhead2k1]

232. The Japanese have been trying to down play this situation from the first hour but

every new report we receive indicates that things are getting worse...

[nadinbrzezinski]

233. As a former emergency worker I am conflicted

if you tell people the TRUTH you can get yourself a nice panic... which can kill...

On the other hand... this fails we have a global disaster. We are downwind after all

I expect it... 750 rads are not bad, take it and quit yer whining,

(Granted it is not that bad, in the overall scheme of things, but)

[nadinbrzezinski]

234. Update AJE

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

16:18pm
Peter Hayes, a nuclear expert, tells Al Jazeera "it's still possible that the reactor workers can stabilise the situation" at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant "if power is brought back, if coolant is brought into the reactor", but "we're really right at the precipice of a massive nuclear crisis".

[shireen]

235. Japan declares nuclear emergency at quake-hit reactors

Source: BBC

Japan has declared a state of emergency at two nuclear power plants, as officials try to confirm whether a reactor has gone into meltdown.

Cooling systems inside several reactors at the Fukushima 1 and 2 power plants stopped working after Friday's earthquake damaged power supplies.

Huge pressure has been building up and a small amount of radiation has been released from one of the reactors.

Thousands of people have been ordered to evacuate the area near the plants.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219

[HCE SuiGeneris]

236. Safe and sound, huh atheist?

I wish us all the best of outcomes.

[shireen]

237. huh? were you asking me a question or just making a general statement? nt

[AtheistCrusader]

239. He or she is referring to me.

Also, I never said a meltdown was 'impossible', nor has it breached the primary or secondary containment, IF and that is IF the core rods have even melted.

[jus_the_facts]

238. A fallout map....

:yoiks:

[AtheistCrusader]

240. Hahahaha 3000 rads based upon what?

Jesus christ they are really trying to scare the bejeebus out of people.

Edit: LOL imageshack. Sure, that's not just something someone whipped up for fun.

[nadinbrzezinski]

241. Ah ONLY 750 RADS...

I feel "cheated."

WHOOHOO, it is just as healthy as going on to the sun.

:sarcasm:

Let's hope the vessel holds, shall we?

[AtheistCrusader]

242. If a 750 rad line hits the west coast like that, we'll be living in south america.

Completely horsecrap. That map was made by some 10 year old. The purported source didn't post it on their official site.

Edit: Not even that, the entire country would be dead within hours. How many tens of thousands of tons of uranium does that reactor have in it, anyway? :lol:

[shireen]

244. source?

I checked Australian Radiation Services website, and could not find it there.

If you can't verify its authenticity, please don't post it. For all we know, this could be someone's idea of a sick joke.

[AtheistCrusader]

248. It's definitely a hoax.

There isn't enough uranium in the all reactors and all storage pools in the entire plant to do that much damage. ALL of Japan couldn't do that. 750 rads is lethal to humans within an hour or two. Probably less.

If the soviets wanted to wipe us out in the 80's, and that was even possible, they could have just conventionally bombed a couple Japanese reactors, right? Nuh-uh doesn't work that way.

[Le Taz Hot]

262. You forgot the link.

I'm in CA and if this is true, the WORLD is in BIG BIG trouble as it will hit agriculture lands in the San Joaquin Valley. Please link your source.

[abqmufc]

243. A reminder from Uncle Tupelo

Taken form one of the bands final shows.

"Atomic Power"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDNX4fRcHoY

[nadinbrzezinski]

250. CONFIRMED Explosion heard

BreakingNews Breaking News
Explosion heard at quake-hit Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan - AFP via Sky News
5 minutes ago

Here is the link to sky news

http://news.sky.com/skynews/

Yes I know it is murdoch...

Russian Television is also reporting, and only live news I got right now

BreakingNews Breaking News
Japan nuclear plant update: Several workers injured following explosion at quake-hit site - NHK
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[nadinbrzezinski]

252. AJE feed

(All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

5:03pm
Several workers have reportedly been injured in the blast at the nuclear plant.

4:59pm
An explosion has been heard and smoke was seen at Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant, Jiji news agency quotes police as saying.

4:57pm
AFP reports that Japan TV footage shows smoke billowing from Fukushima No.1 nuclear plant and that radioactivity there is 20 times normal level.

[abqmufc]

253. Japan Nuclear Reactor Faces Meltdown Threat

Source: Wall Street Journal

By MARI IWATA And ANDREW MONAHAN

TOKYO—Japanese nuclear authorities said Saturday afternoon the Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 nuclear reactor was experiencing the threat of a meltdown after Friday's massive earthquake damaged the cooling system and that outside water was being poured into the reactor to cool it down.

"If the water level remains at this level, the reactor core might be damaged, but we are now pouring water into the reactor to prevent it from happening," a spokesman for Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. The company, known as Tepco, is the owner of the plant, which is located 150 miles, or 240 kilometers, away from Tokyo.

A portion of the reactor's fuel rods, which create heat through a nuclear reaction, have become exposed due to the cooling-system failure. The spokesman for Tepco said 1.5 meters of the 4.5 meter long fuel rods were potentially exposed.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703555404576195700301455480.html

---

Article mentions four reactors are at risk in the country. Also waste ponds did get breached and spilled out into the Sea of Japan.....meltdown is near.

[therebis1930]

254. First it was 3km

evacuation then 10km. Now the evacuation radius is 20km. http://twitter.com/#!/chicoharlan

[nadinbrzezinski]

255. Agency: Uranium fuel may be melting at reactor

Source: NHK English

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says 2 radioactive substances, cesium and radioactive iodine, have been detected near the Number One reactor at the Fukushima Number One nuclear power station.

The agency says this indicates that some of the metal containers of uranium fuel may have started melting.
The substances are produced by fuel fission.

Read more: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_45.html

---

It is ALMOST official...

Ah the love...

Now let me go get fully my gallows humor.

[denem]

256. Not Credible: These were containers of US depleted uranium ammunition

sited to prevent a terrorist attack, I o dine ces i um how it could be dangerous.

[mysterysoup]

257. That isn't funny.

[DeadEyeDyck]

258. How many times can you say...

Holy Shit

[dipsydoodle]

259. Can you receive the BBC news link outsdie of the UK ?

Huge blast at Japan nuclear power plant

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[Turborama]

270. It says "The content doesn't seem to be working". Could be overloaded.

Hopefully they'll have a reliable and constant live feed of BBC World a la Al Jazeera English in the not too distant.

:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

271. I think maybe

it don't work outside of the UK. From memory its all to do with streaming agreements.

BBC World is a joke anyway compared with our home site.

:hi:

[FedUpWithIt All]

274. Kicking this thread for today

Also, i posted this last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4766429&mesg_id=4766971

[defendandprotect]

286. "A partial meltdown was likely under way at second nuclear reactor:

Japan nuclear plant faces partial meltdown -- Yahoo headline covering article --

For battered Japan, a new threat: nuclear meltdown


By ERIC TALMADGE and YURI KAGEYAMA, Associated Press Eric Talmadge And Yuri Kageyama, Associated Press – 30 mins ago

IWAKI, Japan – A partial meltdown was likely under way at a second nuclear reactor, a top Japanese official said Sunday, as operators frantically tried to prevent a similar threat from a nearby unit at the same facility following a catastrophic earthquake and tsunami that may have killed 1,000 people.

Some 170,000 people have been ordered to evacuate the area covering a radius of 12 miles (20 kilometers) around the plant in Fukushima near Iwaki. A meltdown refers to a very serious collapse of a power plant's systems and its ability to manage temperatures. A complete meltdown would release uranium and dangerous byproducts into the environment that can pose serious health risks.



Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters that a partial meltdown in Unit 3 of the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant is "highly possible."

"Because it's inside the reactor, we cannot directly check it but we are taking measures on the assumption of the possible partial meltdown," he said.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_japan_earthquake

[defendandprotect]

294. Just to add that there were "warnings" due to increasing seismic activity --

Japanese Ministers Ignored Warnings re earthquakes and seismic activity increasing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4769073&mesg_id=4769073

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4769073&mesg_id=4769103

[WheelWalker]

296. Thanks for the cross-posts.

Blessings.