‘Creepy,’ ‘Very Hostile’: A College Recorded Its Fears

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NY Times

TUCSON — Officials at Pima Community College, where Jared L. Loughner was a student, believed that he might be mentally ill or under the influence of drugs after a series of bizarre classroom disruptions in which he unnerved instructors and fellow students, including one occasion when he insisted that the number 6 was actually the number 18, according to internal reports from the college.

In 51 pages of confidential police documents released by the college on Wednesday, various instructors, students and others described Mr. Loughner as “creepy,” “very hostile,” “suspicious” and someone who had a “dark personality.”

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One report offers details of the evening of Sept. 29, when two officers drove to the Loughner home to deliver the letter about Mr. Loughner’s suspension. A friend of Mr. Loughner’s said this week that he thought leaving Pima might have been a serious psychological blow to Mr. Loughner, and the security report suggests a clear apprehension by the officers as well — they requested that two backup officers be posted in the neighborhood.

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After an incident in February 2010 in which Mr. Loughner blurted out in a poetry class that dynamite ought to be attached to babies, a campus police officer wrote, “I suggested they keep an eye on him and call us if anything else developed that concerned them.”

Mr. Loughner explained the remark matter-of-factly. “He said that the class had been talking about abortion, which made him think of death, which made him think of suicide bombers, which made him think of babies as suicide bombers,” wrote Mr. Conover.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/13college.html?hp

---

The report: http://documents.nytimes.com/jared-loughner-pima-community-college-documents?ref=us

[MrMickeysMom]

1. Shrinks? Any shrinks who will weigh in here???

I'm going with disorganized thoughts. I'm reminded at the same time of some Jill Clayburg movie, where she swears to God she understands relationships and that she is not mentally ill while trying to draw triangles on the wall. Good scene about someone who is convinced they are sane and makes absolutely no sense at all.

I remember being fascinated and thinking, "boy, whoever wrote this script must have gone through some heavy psychoanalysis."

[kestrel91316]

4. Whoever wrote that movie probably had a close family member

who was schizophrenic.

When my mom was at her worst (for about 20 years) I got a great deal of insight about what made her tick, and how to press the right buttons to get her to do what we needed her to do, and how she would respond to various statements. I could write a book (or movie) about the craziness. There is always a logical (to them) reason for what they do.

[No Elephants]

9. If you could write a book (or screenplay), please seriously consider it.

You might open many eyes.

[MrMickeysMom]

14. +1

I'd see it, or at least read it.

[dkf]

2. Could it be our reaction to a little bit of oddness that really causes people to go over the edge?

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

3. One in ten persons have mental problems, one in ten.

So what do you do? Who do you report? What about their rights?

[Ex Lurker]

5. It seems Loughner's rights were respected to a fault.

there were any number of instances where the authorities had every reason to intervene and didn't. The guy simply couldn't function in society, and society (including his family) was unable/unwilling to either get him the help he needed TO function, or failing that, put him where he couldn't hurt himself or someone else. Leaving someone like this to his own devices helps no one. Not him, not the people he can potentially hurt.

[white cloud]

6. entitlements remember

tax cut for the 2% caused funding problems and we have to cut and stop all this socialism entitlement like MHR service, police, judges, counselor, 45 kid to a teacher, . look at the deficit of the states like TEXAS 27 (billion and growing) and California.

[No Elephants]

13. Since no one even tried to get him help, that seems a step or three removed from this case.

Story linked says the college did have a psychologist abd a member of campus police evaluate the situation. However, it seems the college was only trying to make sure he did not sue or hurt anyone in the college. Does not seem college tried to protett him or the greater community beyond the college.

[LisaL]

7. And he could legally buy a gun. Ain't it grand?

[No Elephants]

12. I've heard a drug user in his state could not legally buy a gun. Maybe he lied?

Lying on your form is not legal.

[slackmaster]

15. That's federal law - Anyone who is an unlawful user of, or addicted to drugs can't buy a gun

Not legally.

[RamboLiberal]

17. He was legal

As long as it didn't end up as a felony conviction.

NICS is a fairly good system but it also depends on states getting their info in to the database.

But in this case from all I've read the killer was legal to buy the gun.

[slackmaster]

18. That is not accurate - See US Code citation here

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—

(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

(2) is a fugitive from justice;

(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

(6) who <2> has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

(8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and
(B)
(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or

(9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

[Lurks Often]

19. So which one applies?

Based on current reports, Item 3 seems to be only one that reasonably applies and his conviction for possession was erased after he completed the court ordered program.

[slackmaster]

20. "unlawful user of" covers it for me

Various reports seem to indicate he was a current user of at least cannabis.

[Fumesucker]

21. I have read that he stopped cannabis use some time back..

And that his symptoms became markedly worse when he did so.

[slackmaster]

22. That could be. I'm saying that IF he was a present drug user, the sale would have been illegal.

I have no solid evidence one way or another.

[SkyDaddy7]

8. "So what do we do?"

Obviously Arizona & the NRA thinks seeing to it they are armed will solve everything.

[No Elephants]

11. Yes, but degree and nature are important. You can be depressed or bipolar, yet very functional and

not a danger to life or limb, your own or anyone else's.

Many people with depression, OCD, bipolar disorder, etc., get graduate degrees with honors. This guy scared people enough to get kicked out of a community college, his claiming publicly that his community college was engaged in torture and genocide being only the final straw in a string of patently bizarre behaviors. I am not sure how you could read the material linked in the OP and consider this a questionable case.

There is a big difference between a personality disorder and a personality split (no, not split personality, personality split) or a psychotic break. If you ever saw someone in the latter state, you'd see it is very different.

For example, someone, coincidentally, a community college instructor, once told my husband, in all seriousness, she could not let a dentist clean her teeth because all her power was in plaque. Oh, yeah--and the homeless people she had invited to her home and she had made a lovely camp fire in her apartment the night before. Did he tell her employer and hunt down her family and tell them they had to come and get her hospitalized? You bet.

I really question 1 in 10 anyway, unless we are calling every mild disorder mental illness.

[FBaggins]

16. And one in two Americans is overweight.

That doesn't mean that we can't identify the people who are qualified for "the biggest loser".

[SkyDaddy7]

10. HELLO?!?! His abortion comments do not sound "LIBERAL"...

I guess we won't hear about this on the nightly news.

Although I will admit they are screwed up! The guy was clearly not altogether!