Public Workers Facing Outrage as Budget Crises Grow

[NeoConsSuck]

Source: NY Times

FLEMINGTON, N.J. — Ever since Marie Corfield’s confrontation with Gov. Chris Christie this fall over the state’s education cuts became a YouTube classic, she has received a stream of vituperative e-mails and Facebook postings.

"People I don’t even know are calling me horrible names,” said Ms. Corfield, an art teacher who had pleaded the case of struggling teachers. “The mantra is that the problem is the unions, the unions, the unions.”

Across the nation, a rising irritation with public employee unions is palpable, as a wounded economy has blown gaping holes in state, city and town budgets, and revealed that some public pension funds dangle perilously close to bankruptcy. In California, New York, Michigan and New Jersey, states where public unions wield much power and the culture historically tends to be pro-labor, even longtime liberal political leaders have demanded concessions — wage freezes, benefit cuts and tougher work rules.

It is an angry conversation. Union chiefs, who sometimes persuaded members to take pension sweeteners in lieu of raises, are loath to surrender ground. Taxpayers are split between those who want cuts and those who hope that rising tax receipts might bring easier choices.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/business/02showdown.html?_r=1&hp

[Hannah Bell]

1. says the "austerity for thee but not for me" ruling class

[madrchsod]

2. obama/duncan have opened the flood gates of hate directed at union members

you can read the hatred in just about every newspaper comment section in the usa.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

37. As if it were that simple and that limited, Bluest Dog, as if.

[QC]

40. Yes, this is coming from the top down, with the president freezing civil service pay

while defending the obscene pay practices of the Wall Street aristocracy.

[Downwinder]

3. Start the cuts at the top.

Where are the dollar a year people?

[Bluzmann57]

4. Next time it snows

They better not gripe about the snow not being removed promptly. You know, taxpayer funded public workers and all...And yet, they will.

[jerseyjack]

5. Public workers get the blame because

they are immediate and visible to all. Goldman Sachs and other bankers are invisible. You don't see them so it is difficult to see the connection.

[jimmie]

42. Exactly

During every downturn , blaming the unions is standard operating procedure.

[dkf]

6. "You are paying for benefits you will never receive"

The problem is that private sector benefits have disappeared, leaving the public sector among the few who have them. Will the public support increasing taxes to pay for the benefits they themselves won't have?

[Cassandra]

7. Are you supporting...

a race to the bottom?

[dkf]

9. There is already a last man standing.

I'm just pointing out the political reality and the hard sell this is.

If you think the politicians can convince everyone to pay more taxes to pay for something they don't have then there is no problem, is there?

[fasttense]

12. But we do just that with politician's pensions, health care and retirement pay.

The politician's golden parachutes are never questioned. Why is that?

The CEOs retirement give aways are never questioned. Why is that?

Take a look at some of those pension plans, health care packages and retirement give aways that Mayors, Governors, state senators and representatives get. Why don't we look at the richest group of public sector workers instead of the little guys?

[dkf]

15. Yes we do look at all that.

Believe me if CEO golden parachutes were awarded by Government officials they would not be that large. And people do hate them for it.

Secondly, I am sure self serving politicians aren't beloved either.

I would say you have pointed to two groups the public has no regard for.

[No Elephants]

48. I never heard anything from the general public about salaries of

AIG until the bailout. And, while Christie is systematically over the airwaves and print media yelping about teachers, who is all over the airwaves over what Jersey spends on Christie and his family?

Where was the systematic effort to reign in salaries and other compensation at Enron (in its heyday), Halliburton, Blackwater or Bechtel and what they were costing taxpayers to black out California, defraud employees and electrocute our troops in Iraq? Where is it now?

And who the public does or does not regard has nothing to do with anything. We are talking food on the table, not Valentines.

Sorry, you are trying to work with a really false equivalency. An occasional grumble here and there, now and then, that disappears as soon as the next shiny thing comes along bears no resemblance to the attack on public employees and unions, esp. teachers.

[TomClash]

18. Because cutting politicians' benefits doesn't save much

I agree that this is a race to the bottom. Woe to the rest of us if public employee unions are eliminated. Watch relative wages fall then, for all of us, including managers and professionals.

But dfk's point is well taken. Who will support pensions when they don't get them?

This is another way to split the working and middle classes to achieve complete and total victory against the remnants of a civil society. It's another round in the class war, Capital and the national security state against the rest of us.

[Downwinder]

19. Another question, who can support pensions if they don't have one?

Social Security income will not support the taxes necessary to make up the difference for unfunded pensions.

[TomClash]

20. That's why we should have a national pension system

With a living wage, so no one goes hungry or is without shelter.

[Downwinder]

21. Social Security was intended to be the safety net.

Then they opted people out and raided the fund.

We can't get single payer health care. How do we get a national pension system?

[TomClash]

27. Organize

That's how.

I know - easier said than done. But the alternative is worse.

[Downwinder]

28. Are you going to nationalize all of the existing plans and redistribute

them? What will be the criteria for redistribution?

[TomClash]

69. I don't know

But social security and 401(k)s are inadequate. Wouldn't you agree?

[Yupster]

87. My wife just showed me her social security

statement last night and she will come out ahead anyway.

In over 30 years of working she's only made over $ 10,000 twice and most years she makes 1,000-2,000 a year at different part-time jobs.

The statement said she's contributed $ 3,759 into social security over her 30 years.

At age 62 she will get $ 319 per month from social security which she has qualified for.

Not that $ 319 a month is a lot, but she'll get back the entire amount she's put in the first year. Not a bad system for her.

[CreekDog]

72. have progressively financed guaranteed minimum income

as insurance.

[Downwinder]

74. Elucidate.

[hollowdweller]

45. I think we need a national pension system

The private sector has decided that they are not going to supply it thru work and the private alternatives are not meeting the need.

I think the Gov't should offer SS extra. For an extra payroll deduction during your working years you qualify for enhanced SS benefits when you retire.

[hollowdweller]

46. The military has the most generous benefits.

The VA, the PX, housing allowance. You can retire after 20 years.

True you can get shot or blown up but I'm not sure the rate of injury is that high to justify the pay.

They give you a HUGE benefit just for signing up.

The rich and corporate interests know they need to make the job appealing to get people to volunteer to fight for their business interests, but if we are talking about reducing the pay for gov't employees the military would be the first place to cut.

PLUS since you have to sign up every few years it would be easier to change the benefit plans without penalizing long term employees than with the reg gov't employees.

[Synicus Maximus]

76. And an E-9 with 20 year in makes a little over $60000.

And if they are on a fight crew and under fire they can make an extra $465 a month. Big money for being shot at.

[No Elephants]

39. Politicians like Christie can stop misrepresenting, easily enough.

They simply prefer to rabble rouse with exaggeration, half truths and outright lies instead.


If you think the politicians can convince everyone to pay more taxes to pay for something they don't have

What an implied premise! Do you know of a politician who is fighting--or even half assed trying--to convince anyone?

Do you think many people were focused on run of the mill public salaries and benefits before politicians cranked up the propaganda machine?

What about benefits for legislators, governors and Presidents? Aside from the rare Bloomberg type, any politicians offering up their own salaries and fringes?

[Cutatious]

11. It sounded like a question to me

I see no support for a race to any bottom. What I do see daily are more people howling that paying more in taxes to support those with public sector jobs while they stagnate is causing class warfare. Never mind that we are all in freefall together in this.

The well educated political leaders in both parties tread a very thin line keeping us fighting among ourselves and crashing their gates.

[dkf]

17. The private sector has already fallen.

Some in the public sector have also, but many were protected by the huge stimulus the Federal Government gave to the states.

Do you realize a third of states budgets came from the Feds? When they drop off, this will mean a pretty big increase in taxes will be needed or substantial cuts in services. That doesn't even count the pension problems which are like Social Security problems...not here yet but looming down the pike.

[CreekDog]

73. a third of CA's budget does not come from the Feds.

wow. :eyes:

[sweetapogee]

77. example of Camden NJ

here is a link to an article about NJ aid cuts to Camden http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/camden-city-council

From the article: "The state kicked in $115.6 million toward the city's proposed $138.8 million budget, $5.5 million less aid than last year."

This means that currently the city rate payers will pay in approx 20% of the budget (up from 15%) meaning the taxpayers outside of the city pay 80% (down from 85%) of the cities budget. Getting rid of Police and FFs I think is wrong but it is the decision of the city council to make the cuts there and not somewhere else. Of course I'm not defending the SHIC, just repeating what is being reported in many media outlets and not challenged by anyone on the losing end of this very raw deal.

I have no idea if this is typical elsewhere, and in your case in CA. I do know that CA has a cash flow problem of near biblical proportions and i would expect that the state will at some point look to the federal government of some relief. Don't shoot me, just saying...

[No Elephants]

49. And so many fall for it, even us political junkies at DU.

[Downwinder]

8. The other problem is that many did not pay into Social Security,

so they do not have a safety net.

[dkf]

10. That would be a problem.

I wonder how many states work this way.

[Pale Blue Dot]

23. As a teacher in Hartford, I'm not eligible for Social Security. nt

[AnneD]

57. Most of the school districts in Texas....

Do not pay into SS and we are required to pay 6% into the Texas State Teachers Retirement System. As a School Nurse, I know for a fact that I make $30K a year LESS than I could make in the private sector (when I first started it was just 10K). I made the conscious choice to go the public service route in large part because of the retirement benefits. Otherwise I would have gone the private route.

I am tired of all these people that have retirement envy or politicians that want to balance the budget using my pension money. Here in Texas, I paid for that pension either through having a chronically low salary and negligent raises on top of my personal contribution. Oh and I work part time in the private sector and already qualify for SS but due to the law, I cannot get it. I cannot even get SS survivor benefits if my husband dies (unlike just about any other American citizen that contributes to SS).
Yeah, I paid into SS and cannot get the benefits that most of these whiny asses will get.

And another thing that chaps my ass. What is this shit about teachers not making more than the people in the area. :wtf:
I work in the ghetto, I mean the hard core ghetto. Now you are telling me that I have to make poverty wages just because I work here. Every day we encourage kids that it is better to get an education and make a better life for themselves. They already see drug dealers making more and driving better cars, have better clothes, and more money than we do. So what is the REAL message we are sending to kids? Be a chump, work hard, go into debt to get your education and you can end up broke and despised like we are. You don't expect a Dr or any other skilled professional to be paid this way. So why do you expect it of teachers,nurses, fireman, policemen, or any other trained professional that just happens to work for the government providing you with vital services.

It is bad enough that those of use working in the worst schools in the worst areas are now consistently losing our 'merit' pay because our students don't have the advantage of an available caring family, enrichment activities, or even simple things like books in their homes. On top of all this, we have to give up even the hope of a dignified retirement so some wealthy jack wad gets to keep more of his money instead of paying his social obligation.

There are certain things that have to be done to maintain a civil society. Providing services such as easy access to a public education, fire fighting, a working criminal and justice system, and health care and the very rudimentary needs of a civil society. Not having these is to descend into anarchy and chaos. Now how well do you think you can do in that kind of 'society'?

[YvonneCa]

79. Same here in California...

...AnneD. :hug:

[daleo]

100. Good post

You make many excellent points.

[smoogatz]

54. That's the Republican argument in a nutshell.

Basically, public sector jobs should be just as crappy as the crappiest private sector jobs (think WalMart greeter), because nothing public sector workers do is difficult or important. Also, state governments should be freed of all contractual obligations because the rich can't be expected to pay proportionally for services and infrastructure.

[CreekDog]

71. not true

but you keep saying it.

[Enthusiast]

13. Republicans have successfully

starved the beast. Now they can bolster and direct anti-union sentiment. Mission accomplished.

[Larkspur]

14. Fascism hates unions

and unfortunately, fascism is where America is headed.

[RoccoR5955]

35. Not where we are headed, but where we now are. n/t

[NeoConsSuck]

16. 2011 Mantra: Kill the Public Unions

The public unions still provide their workers with a middle class lifestyle. That is unacceptable to the ruling elite, including Obama, Christie and Cuomo. They can't continue to drag down private sector workers unless they also drag down public sector workers. The race to the bottom is alive and well in America.

So they need to pit a battle between the private sector and public sector. And the NY Times is more than willing to lend a hand.

Read the following link to see how this will occur:
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2010/12/07/secret-gop-plan-push-states-to-declare-bankruptcy-and-smash-unions/

And the first step to carry this out was enacted:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/22/news/economy/build_america_bonds/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin

In his inaugration yesterday, Cuomo said the recent layoffs of 900 state workers will stand, and he will let expire the millionaires tax in NY State. So if you think there is any difference between the Republican and Democratic party, you're mistaken. They serve one master, the 'Haves'.

[freshwest]

53. You got it. Solutions are hard to find, too.

[sweetapogee]

86. interesting comment about Cuomo

My family is old time NJ shore stock, we go back to pre-colonial days. I got the chance in 2004 to leave and took full advantage of it. Out of my 3 sisters and two brothers, only one is still in NJ and I have few childhood friends left there also. I love the state but it is too expensive to live there. I grew up living less than a mile from the beach (Belmar) and went to Manasquan HS. It was in the 60s and 70s a great place to grow up.

It doesn't matter who is in charge, the state has money problems out the wazzu. The state is in the hole total 60 Billion dollars and the cities combined add another 32 Billion, thats a total 92 Billion dollars. This is a state with casino gambling, 100 miles of ocean beach, great location for vacations, a huge lottery, high corporate taxes, 2% personal income tax, 7% (last time I checked) sales tax, one of the highest property tax rates in the country and almost everyone has to drive one of three toll roads to get to work (GS Parkway, NJ TPK, AC Expresswy), Port Newark and Linden chemical refineries.

But just take the 92 billion, divide by 2 and use 46 billion as a per person debt and divide that by the population of the state which is just under 9 million. This gives you the amount owed by every citizen of the Garden State. Every governor since Whitman talks about a state requirement for a balanced budget but what I want to know is were is all the revenue going in NJ? No one has ever even faked an answer to that question.

Since I no longer live there I have to be honest, I really don't care who is running things there anymore. But for sentimental reasons I would like to know how it resolves itself and I would like to get other peoples ideas on how to fix the problem.

Sorry if I sound cranky. My wife is a 16 year PS school teacher in NJ so I do have some flesh in the game.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[bongbong]

59. Whatcha talking about?

Are you referring to the fact that the billionaires are stealing all the money, or are you talking about the MSM inciting anti-Union hatred?

[Courtesy Flush]

64. O wise one: What is this "reality" you speak of?

How often do you go into the projects? Or in drug addicts' homes? When was the last time a junkie climbed into your car because he saw you eating sunflower seeds and thought you had pot? When was the last time you were locked in a jail cell with a prisoner who was bouncing off the walls, threatening to kill you? How much time do you spend with people with hepatitis?

How often do you visit the grave of the girl whose suicide you couldn't prevent, and that you cannot forgive yourself for? How often has your job made you suicidal?

How often are you raked over the coals by judges who think you're just a worthless government employee?

How many children's funerals do you go to in your job?

Tell us about the realities of your job, and why you deserve to make a living, and I don't!

Go back to your tea party.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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[YvonneCa]

80. You wouldn't. Unless you were a...

...teacher (aka government worker).

[Courtesy Flush]

84. Actually, a CPS worker.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RobinA]

93. Couldn't Have Said It Better

myself. Former Children & Youth worker, current state hospital social worker here.

[Courtesy Flush]

66. Shit. I just looked at your profile

You ARE a tea bagger. Sorry I wasted any emotion on you.

[AnneD]

85. A new posting troll....

maybe a teabagger, but maybe a DNC type sent to whip the base back into line. Sorry, we got suckered once by this drivel, we won't fall for it again. With friends like this, who needs enemies. I can do crazy with out the help.

[mbperrin]

78. How about this reality? I paid into Social Security from 1968 to 1997.

That's 29 years.

I have now paid into Texas Teachers Retirement for 15 years and have another 5 to go. At that time, I will draw about 1/2 my pay from the retirement system, but because I am a teacher, I cannot claim my Social Security benefits.

So I paid twice and get once. Is that the reality to which you refer?

Oops, forgot to mention, 15 of those years were self-employed, so I paid 15% plus those years myself.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mbperrin]

90. So paying twice and collecting never is fine with you?

And why are not upset about Blankfein and others raking in MILLIONS for fucking their companies up?

Please respond to my post rather than spamming it with the "unfortunately" comment.

Because I can get along without a department of defense altogether better than I can without retirement. And if default is the only way out, let's default on those "public" bondholders. Good thing: no one will ever loan to us again, and that will leave ample funds to release the social security surplus.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

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[mbperrin]

92. Except the armed forces can also collect social security, and I can't.

I wouldn't want to be a prison guard. Neither would most people. The atmosphere and company is of poor quality. That's why plumbers make more than fast food cooks. I don't have a problem with that.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

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[mbperrin]

97. I'm a high school teacher, so I have no interest in being a rent a cop,

either.

I have a master's degree and 4 teaching certificates, and have been in the workforce 45 years. No one said, not even you or Forbes, that $300,000 is the average for a prison guard in California.

In Texas, for instance, prison guards start at $2300 per month and make up to $3000 after 8 years.
http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/vacancy/coinfo/cosalary.html

A security guard who drives around in a VW at night to make sure nobody kicked the door in at Sonic is in no way doing a comparable job to being locked up every day surrounded by thieves, murderers, rapists, and child molesters.

But thanks for trying.

[wickerwoman]

83. That's a really ignorant statement.

In 1998 when the Republican controlled congress led by Next Gingrich held up the budget my friends employed in the public sector worked two months without pay. Why? Because their jobs were essential to the functioning of our country.

Want reality? Don't pay government workers and explain to granny that her next social security check isn't coming. Try to find and pay for childcare when your kid's school switches to a four day week. Tell your brother in the army he isn't getting body armor because the taxes weren't collected to pay for it. And then when his leg is blown off, explain to him why the wait list for his benefits is so long. Tell the fireman risking his life to save your house full of tacky shit that he doesn't understand reality.

When was the last time you worked for two months without pay?

And government workers get job security and benefits because their pay is often much lower than workers in the public sector. All during the 90s when the private sector was doing great, they did essential, often thankless jobs for less money on the understanding that those benefits would be there for them when they need them.

But sure... let's continue to dismantle the middle class out of spite and see where that gets us.

[old mark]

25. Christie of NJ refused tax increases on the wealthy while cutting

benefits to workers, teachers, cops, firefighters and all other public employees...of course the elected officials, legislators and politicians, plus Christie's political appointees got increases.

If you are rich, you will be fine. If not, you will be in bad trouble in the US. The pols want to cut health care, social security, private pensions where they still exist and public service jobs. Welcome to your "golden years", those of you facing retirement over the next decade...


mark

[Downwinder]

26. This is recovery?

[old mark]

33. As of Monday, Camden NJ will have around 40% fewer police, as will

several other cities in NJ. This is while Christie's hired pals get huge salaries and the legislators give thenselves raises and better benefits.
The "recovery" is the stock market and for the rich...for the rest of us, the republican party is taking over America and trying to kill it.


mark

[Courtesy Flush]

29. But they treat us like losers when the economy is good.

I've known people who have had benefits I can only dream of... and they are all private-sector workers. I've had friends who receive annual bonuses, matching savings plans, tickets to sporting events handed out to employees, and lengthy vacations. I get none of that. Friends with high school diplomas make more than I do in a job that requires a degree.

Those same workers probably don't have those benefits now that the economy is down, but I NEVER had them, and those guys used to look down on me like I was a minimum-wage worker because of my state job.

I have a medical plan, a pension plan, and paid holidays. That's very basic stuff, and when the economy is booming I feel like a loser for not getting what the rest of you had. But then the economy crashes, but my job doesn't change (that's the nature of state employment), suddenly they think I'm being pampered.

[Downwinder]

31. I was private sector with supposedly all of those benefits, then my

private sector went bankrupt. Now I exist on Social Security.

[Courtesy Flush]

50. As a state employee, I will never be eligible for Social Security. nt

[Downwinder]

51. Worse comes to worst SSI pays about $900 per mo. Not too

great, been there. Bunch of "gotchas" in the means tested system.

[shanti]

62. not all state employees have this

i just retired on 12/31 after 21 years with the state of california. i have a small but livable pension, AND also paid into SS.

[alarimer]

99. Not every state does that.

I am a state employee in Texas (not a teacher) but as far as I know I can collect SS as well as my pension. I assume the SS would be reduced by some percentage, though, which is also a crock of shit because I paid into that as well. Now this is assuming both things will still exist in 20 years, when it looks like the assholes in both parties are hell-bent on destroying them.

[Omaha Steve]

30. Newt Gingrich on Public Employees

"… they're not going to be allowed to be the haves, while the taxpayers are the have-nots. They're not going to be allowed to have giant advantages in health plans, in pensions, in retirement age, in workload, and … pay while all the rest of us are working hard."

— Newt Gingrich, Fox News, November 19, 2010

[Downwinder]

32. As speaks one with all of the benefits. Gained at a temporary job.

[Frisbee]

36. I'd be willing to bet my last nickle that Newt...

has never worked hard a day in his life. Of all the despicable people in the repuke party, he may very well be the worst of the worst.

[bongbong]

60. He works hard in one area

He is a ceaseless worker in conning new & younger women to have affairs with him, and then marry him after he discards his old wife.

[QC]

41. Newt has swung from the government tit most of his life, so

this bit about "the rest of us" is a bit much.

[No Elephants]

52. Public employees ARE taxpayers. Newts skill: misleading use of language.

[The Wizard]

61. The bullshit artist Gingrich

never put in a days labor in his life.

[RobinA]

94. I Am a Government Employee

Somebody has apparently made a mistake in my paycheck, because I am being chraged tax. It's news to me that I am not a taxpayer.

[RoccoR5955]

34. The problem is the LACK of unions

To combat the corporations. Corporations own the country, since the days of Reagan. When he busted unions, the country started on a downward trend, which continues to this day.

[Downwinder]

43. Management cannot operate an entity without labor.

About time for a nationwide general strike.

[No Elephants]

55. Sorry, Too busy posting. Gives me the false feeling of making a difference while I risk nothing and

barely exert any energy. And a faux reality show is on TV as I type. Cannot get enough of those. (To think: I used to believe good writing and good acting were necessities.)

Besides, nationwide general strikes are tricky to organize, what with greedy unions finally having been eviscerated and all.

I am just your average modern American.

[Downwinder]

56. The only alternative I can see then is a "Bonus Army," which got a

little rough last time around.

[No Elephants]

63. No clue, but I will google and learn.

[No Elephants]

68. Ah, okay. Now, I vaguely remember reading something about this before, but

I do not know how anyone got 15,000 vets from all over the country organized. Radio? Veterans organizations?

[Downwinder]

70. Shouldn't be gard to find 15,000 Gov. Employees. Not hardly enough.

Somebody is going to have to stand up to the Gov. Public employees are about the only group left. I'll support them, if I don't have to fly or walk too far. Unless you are going to run for office. I've run twice, maybe once more. But like they say, "we talk a lot, but don't do anything." If we don't do something pretty soon, it will be too late.

[No Elephants]

98. If we don't do something pretty soon, it will be too late. Yep.

[Overseas]

67. K&R! //nt

[old mark]

38. As a retired public employee from PA, I can tell you that it is not all roses...

We had exactly 1 cost of living raise while I was working for PA, in 2006 - 1 since since 1973, when the state employees voted to unionize. Before that, state workers made a little over minimum wage-State mental hospital employees made a bit over $3 per hour. When I left in 2009, Democratic governor Rendell had already cut workers health insurance, lengthened the vesting period for employees pensions and increased the retirement requirements while instituting a tiered wage system for newer hires.
FWIW, I started working for a state hospital with a group of 12 new people, the first new hires in over 10 years. After 2 years, I was the only one still working for the state...my wife had been diagnosed with a chronic disease, and I swore to stay there as long as I could tolerate it for the medical insurance. Public employees are second class citizens, and for many the promise of a decent retirement and benefits package is the only reason they stay with the state...they are generally treated like shit by the politicians, management, media and msny other people who are "envious".

mark

[RoccoR5955]

81. I am a public employee, and I can tell you that this is true

at least in my case. Some managers are better than others, and politicians will be politicians, but it's true that they treat their work force like shit. They would treat them more like shit, if there was no union.

[YvonneCa]

82. I'll third the motion. n/t

[RobinA]

96. PA Employee

I'll fourth it. The health plan is decent. Generally I pay through the nose for benefits, have less vacation than anybody I know. I came here because I wanted a union after working 21 years years in the private sector.

[hollowdweller]

44. Average coal miner salary in my state over 60K Average Teacher Salary 38K

Now somebody may say there's more risk in mining- Howver a LOT of the mining jobs now are just for strip mines and are more like Dozer operator.

I know a guy who works on a mountaintop removal site. He had an injury and only worked 9 mo one year. All his job consists of is coming out of a building where he's sitting about every 20 min and re adjusting some equiptment. In 9 mo he made 78,000.

I have a friend who has worked for the state processing Social Security Disability claims. He's worked for 26 years and makes 33,000. At a job where you have to have a degree to qualify for and it takes over 2 years to be fully trained to do. He CAN retire at 55, but if he retires then he will only get around 19,000 a year.

I'm just not seeing that Public Employees making any huge sums. The feds are paid better, but not hugely though.

[Omaha Steve]

47. See this post in the Labor Forum

It is about how Nebraska wants to change the laws that oversee public worker unions: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=367

A couple of states just changed their laws. Last I knew, over a dozen states want to make changes this year.

[smoogatz]

58. Public employees: this cycle's "welfare queens."

It's classic Republican wedge politics. Last time around it was Latinos, before that gay people, and back in Reagan's day it was the poor. Republican candidates for governor have shamelessly whipped up teabagger resentment against state employees all over the country, and they can get away with it largely because of the huge amounts of out of state cash pouring into statewide elections now. It's classic wedge politics; the author of the times piece is, unfortunately, accepting the right-wing frame uncritically.

[Overseas]

65. There is "Genuine Public Outrage" brought to you by Americans for Prosperity

and other "genuine grass roots" slick Republican professional PR efforts nationwide.

[newspeak]

101. deregulating wallstreet and the housing bubble

plus obscene war profiteering contracts while cutting taxes, especially on the wealthy-these factor are more to blame than some people who still have a decent job and benefits. Why don't they mention states screwing with their employees' pension funds? Remember that great move when Jebbie was governor in Florida, investing in Enron? You don't think the employees' got screwed big time? How about in Ohio, allegedly buying coin collections on pensioners money? A bunch of damned crooks needing the gullible to turn on their own.

If it was just about those mean greedy public employees, especially union employees--then why are non-union, right to work states also in trouble. Faux snooze can take their toxic spewing and put it where the sun don't shine. I no longer work as a public employee, but I appreciate, teachers, firefighters, librarians, social workers and good police officers.

They'll blame everyone except the true culprits-deregulating a***hole politicians, greedheads on wallstreet who bank on our misery and private contractors who are funneled our money for some substandard services for a pretty penny.