Obama, Republicans reach deal to extend tax cuts, unemployment benefits

[Imperialism Inc.]

Source: Washington Post

President Obama and congressional Republicans have agreed to a tentative deal that would extend for two years all the tax breaks set to expire on Dec. 31, continue unemployment benefits for an additional 13 months and cut payroll taxes for workers to encourage employers to start hiring.
...

Obama was able to extract an agreement from GOP leaders to support an additional 13 months of jobless benefits, a 2 percent employee payroll tax cut and extensions of several tax credits aimed at working families that were included in the stimulus bill.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/06/AR2010120605923.html?hpid=topnews

---

I personally don't have a problem with the deal. I think Obama did what he had to do. The Republicans don't care about anything but power and were never going to cave.

[Abq_Sarah]

1. Status Quo remains.

[Arius]

2. When is enough enough?

I am new to this forum, so thank you for your time.

I am unsure of how much longer we can sustain irresponsible government due to partisanship and ideological inflexibility. I am unsure of when debt became acceptable in this nation (I put it at about 1932) but when did we start to forget that at some time debt HAS TO BE PAID?

[Imperialism Inc.]

9. The deficit is big because there was a huge collapse of the housing market

and a financial crisis. In a recession government should spend while no one else wants to.

[Donnachaidh]

111. the deficit is BIG because Bush put us in TWO wars and didn't pay for it

Remember -- Clinton left a SURPLUS.

The financial crisis was caused by puke de-regulation. Wall Street Gone Wild -- and we're paying for ALL the puke mistakes.

[Imperialism Inc.]

117. And Bush accounts for about one third of the current deficit.

I don't think we disagree about why there was a crisis. The deficits increased by $1 trillion for each of Obama's 2 years due to spending related to the housing/financial crisis. Government revenues are down because there isn't as much income being made and taxed (due to the downturn). Then there are the various tax cut incentives and safety net spending (unemployment, etc). The actual amount of new spending under Obama is very low, it is all spending due to the downturn.

[bemildred]

10. If the debt has to be paid, why does it keep going up? nt

[Knight Hawk]

26. Because

Look at it as a personal credit card and assume the country cannot go bankrupt without devasting consequencies.Back to the credit card . You CAN keep charging on it and increase your monthly payments,and your debt, for a long time with a high limit.But one of two things ,both bad,will probably happen .You will not be able to continue your monthly payments and damage your credit so bad(countries have credit "ratings" ,look at Greece right now)that you will not be able to buy a decent car ,buy a house ,rent a decent apt. and in many caese even get a decent job.You are not in a good place.The other bad thing that can happen to you ,or a country ie.Greece,Ireland,is that you do continue to make your payments but in order to do so you have to give up many things in your life that you enjoy or outright need .The money to pay the bank will come out of your lifestyle .The big money boys have it all figured out .They have devised the perfect mousetrap.Guess who the mice are. Ive been there and done that.

[mr_smith007]

110. Lots of things I can point out

in your post that need adjustment. First off, never look at govt finances the way you do family or personal finances. This is truly apples to oranges since 1) we borrow in our own currency and can inflate huge chunks of our debt away (see the late 1940s data), 2) we borrow almost half of our money from the fed which gives us incredible (implicit) flexibility compared to debts to foreign and domestic investment entities 3) we are the biggest economy on the block which is why even though we have a horrible debt right now, 10 year notes are still at or below 3%. The world knows that as the US economy goes, so goes the world. We are the most stable and diversified economic system in the world so unless the whole world goes into a nasty depression and people die by the hundreds of millions, we aren't going to default. This isn't just patriotic chest thumping or data straight from my ass, this is comparing our govt bond rates to those of other countries with similar defictis/debts.

Greece and Ireland's situations could not be further from ours. They don't have their own currencies so they can't devalue their currencies to kick up export numbers to help employment and stimulate their economy. We do have our own and we can and have done this before. Also, when international crises occur or global financial shocks occur, funds don't search out Ireland and Greece to park their money. They park it in US notes for reasons mentioned above.

Lastly, we have seen the debt at 120% in the mid 40s and there were no threats to our credit rating because investors foreign and domestic knew the things I mentioned above. This is why Paul Krugman made fun of the phantom bond vigilantes that the Chicago boys kept screaming about, they never came because even though we are pushing our debt closer to post WWII numbers, we are still the best international bet.

I don't doubt that we have got to deal with this debt eventually, once the recession is over. Just like in WWII they all said, yes, we will deal with it, when the war is over and they did. And so will we.

We see a horrible debt as a percentage of GDP only partly because of increased deficit spending. The other part is the drop in growth of GDP. In the debt/GDP dollars ratio, as GDP goes down, the percentage goes up. My point is that in a liquidity trap the last thing we need to be worrying about is the debt and the first thing to worry about is demand. If the private investors and companies won't spend and invest (which they aren't as evidenced by their nearly $2 trillion in cash) then the govt NEEDS to, deficit spending or not, doesn't matter. When the the recession is over we can always devalue and that in combination with the uptick in GDP will make this concern about the deficit a thing of the past.

The problem with Obama's choices is that a huge chunk of this deal with do ZERO to address the demand issue. Yes the payroll tax reduction will have about a 1:1 stimulative effect and the extension of unemployment will have an even better stimulative effect. But the rest of it will have no effect and do nothing more than widen the income inequality gap which sucks more demand out of the economy and will send us further down the drain.

[RedCloud]

21. Welcome!

:hi:

[Luciferous]

42. Welcome to DU!

[aggiesal]

54. To answer your question ...

It was 1980 when the debt started to spiral out of control.

By 1980, we had a debt of $1 Trillion

Reagan Years (1981-88) Debt increased from $1T to $3T
Daddy Bush Years (1989-92) Debt increased from $3T to $5.5T
Clinton Years (1993-2000) Debt decreased from $5.5T to $4.5T
Idiot Bush Years (2001-08) Debt increased from $4.5T to about $9.8T
Obama's first year was based on Idiot Bush's last budget was increased
by another $3T, so right now it's about $13T.

You can thank all the Republican presidents since 1980 for this mess.

BTW, Welcome to DU.

[newspeak]

116. The repugs are so concerned about the debt now

I can just feel all of their concern. They were so concerned about the debt during Reagan, when Reagan was doing his trickle on trick, that he increased it by 128%. And, during Little Boots reign--as he lied us into a war with Iraq so his oily buddies could nab some resources while we supplied the troops, and his war profiteering friends could make some hard cash--yep, direct from the treasury--some of that cash, unaccounted. Oh, and some of those no bid contracts could provide shitty services and items to our soldiers. And, let's see, Little Boots increased the deficit about 89%. And, now the repugs are so concerned about the deficit. Too bad they're not concerned about the people in this country, I mean besides, their wealthy greedy friends.

I can hear it now, we're so concerned about the deficit, we got to get rid of anything and everything that actually helps the American people in these dire times. Nothing but lying hypocrites.

[DURHAM D]

3. Can anyone explain this one to me?

"a 2 percent employee payroll tax cut"

[RamboLiberal]

7. Sounds like a temporary cut in the SS tax

My question is it on both sides - the employee portion & the employer portion?

Isn't this kind of stupid when the cat food commission is making recomendations to raise retirement age & cut SS payments? And the false whining SS is broke?

[DURHAM D]

16. Exactly - undermining the whole program seems the plan.

Although I am an employer my hope for the overall health of SS is that the 2% is limited to just the employee (although I see that as a disaster - just a smaller disaster) but given the circumstances I doubt that will be the case.

I guess you could look at it this way - when Obama signs the law privatizing 20% of the SS funds they will have less to lose for American citizens.

[sirthomas66]

39. This plan was made way ahead in case the Catfood commission

didn;t get there recos to the floor. The only way you can come out okay is to take the after tax amount of the reduced SS payments, add separate money to it, then invest said funds in a vehicle making at least what social security is making.

[sirthomas66]

38. Number one: it reduces the amount of SS taxes that come out

of your paycheck, throwing that additional money into taxable income. So you have less Social Security Funds when you reach collection of SS age while concurrently paying higher taxes on the money. A disaster.

[bc3000]

4. Obama just made the tax cuts permanent

Two years? A lie.

[louis-t]

19. Yes he did. If you think repugs won't extend again in 2 years?

Then you haven't been paying attention.

[Jed28]

23. Yup...

What's stopping a Republican majority in the House and Senate from making them permanent? A possibility if angry voters abandon the Democratic Party.

[sirthomas66]

5. This is the beginning of the diminishing of Social Security. Take

the future value of the reduction and that is how much less will be paid in Social Security. This is a disaster beyond belief. Obama does singlehandedly what the Catfood commission couldn't.

[Iowa]

30. Obama is doing things Bush would have loved to do, but couldn't. He's a disaster.

[sirthomas66]

34. I suppose you have done the math. It's not only the SS money

that is reduced not going into the SS fund for future use, that money comes back now as taxable income, raising FIT taxes that would have been taxed at a lower rate upon retirement. It is a bonified disaster. I am in shock.

[MarkGelbart]

118. Obama is just a continuation of Bush

I really see no difference whatsoever between Obama's policies and Bush's policies. When it comes to transparency, war policies, and economic policies, it's like twiddle dee and twiddle dum. In response to this criticism, Obama touts the health care reform act. The health care reform act consisted mostly of conservative republican ideas. The only reason conservative republicans were opposed to it was because democrats were for it.

[Scurrilous]

6. K & R

:thumbsup:

[LuckyTheDog]

8. For what it's worth, the Freepers think THEY were sold out

Read here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2638411/posts

[The Hitman]

12. hahaha so everyone is pissed?

Must be a good deal then in bipartisan America! :crazy:

[tridim]

50. Except the 9 out of 10 people that aren't paying a lick of attention to anything.

[Tx4obama]

13. Well, if both sides are bitchin' then it must be a fair deal. n/t

[glitch]

51. Only if you don't know it's a class war and there are victors.

Guaranteed those victors aren't posting on freerepublic or DU right now.

[SkyDaddy7]

17. ...And the Liberals think Obama caved...

In any other time in history this would be looked at as progress or bipartisanship...However, in today's environment of political wins over everything else this deal is frowned upon. Obama is weak, sell out, conservative, ultra-right winger, & all the other names he has been given here on DU.

I see this as Obama trying to do what he can for the middle class in a political environment that toxic...I know I am one of maybe 2-3 here on DU who feel the same way.

MODS If this is breaking the rules then delete it.

[Telly Savalas]

24. I'm with you.

People that overlook the value of extending unemployment benefits and that this compromise was probably the only way of getting them are stupid and are bad people.

[SkyDaddy7]

27. It is people who are secure in their job and...

probably do not know any families or individuals who are struggling to feed their kids let alone buy them holiday presents...It is people who would rather fight a political battle on the grounds of Liberal Purity than to make deal so that people in pain get a small bit of help. SAD!!

[JDPriestly]

45. Many of my friends are unemployed.

I became unemployed a few years ago due to my age and other problems. I therefore took early retirement. I applied for job after job and back then learned that an older person could not get one. This deal is bad for everyone.

People who want to work need jobs not unemployment checks. The money put into the unemployment compensation -- for those who have been out of work a year or more -- should go into a jobs program. It would not cost any more than it does now to hire people to work on WPA type projects.

The unemployment checks do not help young people just entering the workforce. They do not help the many, many owners of small businesses that have already had to declare bankruptcy. Those owners also cannot get jobs. They are really hurting too.

A WPA program is the only answer right now. Obama is way off the track on this. Has been since he took office.

[glitch]

53. He's not "off-track" he's just another neoliberal from the Univ of Chicago.

He actually stated the government doesn't create jobs, only the private sector does, a couple weeks ago.

You are correct, stimulus with a WPA jobs program in alternative energy and infrastructure revamp is the only thing that would have helped our economy right now.

Not to be.

[JDPriestly]

44. This deal means cuts to Social Security. What good is it to

have another extension to your paltry unemployment benefits if you are going to have to wait longer and receive less from Social Security.

It would be better to spend the money that is going to unemployment benefits on hiring people part-time to do WPA type work. After so many months, the unemployed are losing their confidence and skills to the point that it will be difficult for many of them to ever re-enter the workforce. Healthy people should be given the opportunity to work.

Obama is totally missing the boat on this -- totally. He has done a terrible job. He has ignored the problems of Main Street entirely.

This tax cut is a give-away to the very rich. The unemployed will not get much from this. The rich will get a lot.

And the economic theory behind these cuts didn't work in the past and won't work in the future. They will simply mess up everything.

[sirthomas66]

36. It is a DISASTER. Not only is the future value of SS funds reduced, the

increased income from the reduction is TAXABLE income at a higher rate then one would have paid when collecting Social Security. The only way to compensate for this is to take the amount after taxes of the reduction, add money to it to bring it back to the before tax amount and then invest that money earning at least the same rate as SS funds.

[JDPriestly]

43. This is bad economics and bad politics. Obama has done it again.

I like the guy, but really, he shouldn't be president. He does not know what he is doing.

Now the Republicans will point to the "deficit" and demand cuts in Social Security. The very people who get 2% of Social Security payroll taxes will now have to start supporting their parents or at least helping them out.

This is an idiotic deal. "Compromise" indeed. This is no compromise. This is the Republicans rolling over Obama once again.

Oh, why did Edwards have to have an affair? He would never have gone for this. He is used to negotiating settlements. Obama needs to ask some trial attorneys for some help next time he tries to negotiate with the Republicans.

Oh. This is beyond belief bad.

[dflprincess]

57. Obama knows exactly what he is doing

and he will be well rewarded for his role in destroying what was left of the middle class when he leaves office.

[Caretha]

47. Do the math!

See post #34 & #38.

Being a sellout is one thing - Flunking economics 101 is frowned upon except for the really stupid college freshmen. Buy a clue with your 2% reduction in your SS taxes or go back and take remedial math. This is by no means progressive.

[bitchkitty]

112. Oh, please.

Don't you ever get tired of making excuses?

[MarkGelbart]

119. He did cave.

He got nothing in return except extending unemployment which is a bad idea. This compromise is exactly the opposite of what should be done. Taxes should be raised on everyone. Why are democrats regurgitating this conservative nonsense that cutting taxes stimulates the economy? History has proven over and over that cutting taxes never stimulates the economy. It's a total lie that the press has repeated so many times that the people believe it's true.

Unemployment benefits should be cut. Unemployment payments are just a scam for people to beat the federal government out of money. I'm sure there are some people who are actually unemployed, but everyone I've ever known who collected unemployment was not actually unemployed. This is especially prevalent in the construction business. Construction workers work exactly 6 months of the year; the rest of the year they collect unemployment...but still work under the table.

[louis-t]

20. I will not.

[Curtis]

11. What I don't get is

why oh WHY make them expire in TWO years? We all knew they would extend these tax rates for the richest Americans. I admit I gave it a 99 percent chance Obama would give in, and from reading posts here the last month or so, it's painfully obvious most everyone knew the hand writing was on the walls.

So, what I would have liked to see was extend them 3-4 years so they were NOT a campaign issue in 2012. You know the Republicans will use it as an issue for every level of elected office. This being the biggest tax cut in history (extending the previous biggest tax break and adding in the 2 percent payroll and other tax breaks Obama got in this "deal") I seriously doubt the Democrats will be able to put together a cohesive campaign where they actually run on passing the biggest tax break in history. They'll run away from it like they have everything they've done in the last couple of years (not individually but party wide).

So, not only did the Republicans walk away with their tax breaks for million and billionaires, but Obama handed them the biggest election issue ever by making these expire in 2012. Thanks for nothing . . . .

[sirthomas66]

37. Exactly. Can you see the headline: Obama decreases poor people's

Social Security monies and charges them at a higher tax rate for yearly reduction in SS taxes. This is a disaster.

[JDPriestly]

46. The meme is that Obama is so smart, but this is not the kind of decision

a smart person makes. It makes no sense at all to compromise on this. Has someone got something on Obama that he does not want known? Why is he doing this? I am baffled.

[shanti]

113. my thoughts, exactly

i think there's something behind the scenes that we are not privy to.

[sofa king]

108. I don't think you'e looking at it correctly.

What President Obama got was a stimulus package that wasn't ever going to pass. He got an extension of the middle class tax cuts, after he got every Republican in the Senate to vote against them, which they will never outrun for the rest of their (short) careers. I don't think it's unfair to guess that this one vote will force the retirement of a dozen Republican Senators in the next six years.

And he set them up to do the same thing again, only this next time we'll either force Republicans to hold the middle class cuts hostage before the election, or force them to give away the store in exchange for delaying the vote until November, 2012.

Voting against the tax cuts was a sucker bet that forced the GOP to play its hand. As a result, they're starting off a brand new Congress with a huge go-home vote to erase. Either they get populist (i.e., play ball with us), or they go home.

That ain't bad, for a disastrous compromise.

[4dsc]

14. See ya Pres.

I can say that I am finally fed up with this capitulation bullshit that seems to be the theme of this presidency. I will not support this president in 2012.

[LuckyTheDog]

15. Well then...

Good luck getting what you want from President Romney.

[Chan790]

25. I'm growing so sick of reading this idiotic canard. n/t

[Iowa]

56. +1

[bowens43]

31. how would that be any worse?

This president has groveled at he feet of the worst of the republican party from day one.

At least with romney we wouldn't have a poser, we'd know what we were getting.

[dflprincess]

58. And we already got Romney Care

after candidate Obama told us he opposed that sort of plan.

[Iowa]

55. No, we'll be voting for the Democratic candidate, not Romney...

Obama must be tossed to the curb in the primaries; the fate of the country depends on it. Another four years of this clown would be more than the country could take... 16 consecutive years of Bush/Obama would be a disaster this country would never recover from.

[LuckyTheDog]

106. That's a strategy...

... That has NEVER worked... at least not in modern times.

Or was I just asleep during the whole Ted Kennedy administration in the early 80s?

[Iowa]

114. Correct. It has never worked. But we have also never had as big a sellout as Obama.

[Iliyah]

18. I will support

Pres O for re-election. Inasmuch as I dislike that the 2% gets their cuts, and maybe it's ok for some to sacrifice the benefits for the unemployed since the GOP don't care about the unemployed, but I do care as well as the Pres.

[bowens43]

33. Wow. You thi nk th e pres gives a shit about the unempoyed?

seriously?

[tridim]

52. Without a shred of doubt.

What makes you think he doesn't? Is it something Faux reported?

[JDPriestly]

48. Why will you support him, Illyah? What has he done right?

I mean really right? I just think he is an allround loser at this point.

In the end, this compromise will please only the very rich, and they will not vote for him.

By the way this will not please Warren Buffet or Bill Gates and a number of the sharpest rich guys in the country. They know this is a fool's compromise.

[mvd]

22. I still have a question

My concern is if we could get unemployment compensation passed without a deal. Would reconciliation work? Or did we make it harder for ourselves to use reconciliation?

[bloomington-lib]

28. Booooooo!

[bowens43]

29. once again Obama caves like a frightened child.

truly pathetic....................

[saigon68]

104. No Spine--Yet the Obama-Bush War goes On

"Bring Em ON" shouted the AWOL Chimpanzee

[rug]

32. "Obama was able to extract an agreement from GOP leaders"

I suppose that's one way of putting it.

[Chan790]

35. So many other interesting ways one could put it though.

I'm torn between:

"Obama lays down so Senate Republicans can dance all over him more easily."

and

"Obama goes belly-up like a good doggy for Senate GOP"

Those seem the two best.

[prodigals0n]

41. Obama got a GREAT DEAL!

I know because he said this time the tax cuts are REALLY going to expire!

LOL

How naive can someone who achieves this level of political office be? Obama just took the next step toward making the Bush tax cuts permanent. And the republicans know it. They rolled him again. It's getting so easy it isn't even fun anymore. Mitch McConnell and Boehner should just write up a wish list and slip in under the White House Christmas tree so they can have everything they want for Christmas.

[JDPriestly]

40. So how are they going to cut the budget. I'll give you one guess:

Social Security is on the table.

I suggest a march of senior citizens. No young people invited or allowed in the official march. And it should take place in every town and city across the nation. Let's get our neighbors who are in wheel chairs and surviving on oxygen tanks into the streets. Now that is a demonstration that would be hard to keep out of the media.

Coincidentally, we Social Security recipients just received our notice that the CPI has not risen since 2008 and therefore our Social Security benefits in 2011 will remain what they were in 2010. I think the last time they went up was 2008.

I guess the prices of cell phones and I-phones and other gadgets must have gone down. The price of food and mortgages and rent and telephone bills and cable charges sure haven't. Seniors don't buy the junk that costs less now than it did in 2008 (if any such junk exists). Do you know how rarely seniors shop for clothing? How little they buy? Many of us just buy a couple of outfits to wear around the house every couple of years and wear the "good clothes," the "go-to-meeting" stuff maybe once at the most twice a week. We even eat a lot less than younger people.

Of course, the cost of a can of beans has remained the same -- but the can is smaller.

[Hawkeye-X]

49. These people needs to live in the middle-class area for 10 years

and remove themselves from any WEALTH or MONEY of any kind.

Let them LIVE like us, let them understand WHY we need jobs.

Obviously keeping the rich richer is far more important. Republicans must cease to exist soon, or there will be no United States of America (or hasn't been one since 1980).

Hawkeye-X

[PSPS]

59. Isn't it obvious by now? Obama is one of "them."

The speechifying he does on the stump is all a charade to trick the left to vote for him (Obama is no leftist or progressive,) the same way Reagan's speechifying to the religious right was a charade to trick the fundamentalists to vote for him (Reagan wasn't religious at all, never attended church.)

Also, look at the people Obama has put in his inner circle -- virtually all either bush holdovers or "waiver"-laden because of their violation of the ethics code Obaba speechified about on the stump.

Oh yeah, he also speechified about this very issue -- letting the billionaire tax cut expire.

[GrantDem]

60. An imperfect, but not-that-bad, deal on the tax cuts

Source: Washington Post

The White House and the Republicans are pretty close to a final deal on the Bush tax cuts. Here are the specifics, though it's worth saying that as near as this is to completion, it's still not done, and so it could change:

Read more: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/12/an_imperfect_but_not-that-bad.html

[regnaD kciN]

61. "So is this a good deal? It's a lot better..."

"...than I would've told you the White House was going to get if you'd asked me a week ago."

This from a noted "professional left" pundit.

Of course, that won't stop people here from calling Obama a "sellout" who "capitulated" and "caved"...even though the results from doing what they would have wanted (letting middle-class tax cuts expire along with those for the rich, and not getting long-term unemployment extensions) would have been much worse for average Americans, as well as for their perception of the Democrats.

:eyes:

[DallasNE]

66. My Exact Take

The version I heard included a 2% reduction in payroll taxes for 1 year as a stimulus. My guess is that the extension of unemployment benefits are paid for but neither tax measure is. Let's see what the actual details are but this deal is better than I expected. It undercuts the joint commission recommendations to balance the budget but that is not all bad anyway.

[SkyDaddy7]

67. WHAT?

A positive, realistic look at what Obama has done to try help the middle class in this toxic political enviroment...ON DU? WOW!

Thank-you!

[Ruperto31]

83. President Obama did not "capitulate" or "cave."

He is a conscious agent of the capitalist class. Wall Street spent millions financing his campaign. He knows who his bosses are, and they aren't working people, whose social security is now endangered by this "compromise."

Go ahead. Ban me.

[alarimer]

92. I agree with you.

This is not our country and never has been. Our owners are the powerful and wealthy. Obama has likely always known this and, like all politicians, lies to get elected when it is expedient to do. I never believed in him as anything other than a corporate shill.

The only think left is to burn the whole thing down and start over from scratch, starting with guillotining a few CEOS and their political lapdogs.

[sirthomas66]

96. Exactly!!!

[sofa king]

107. He got most of what he wanted and won 2012 across the board for us.

I notice that the compromise inserts a big part of President Obama's stimulus plans, something that would not have found its way into law in any other way.

And, we managed to stick almost every damned Republican in the Senate with the plague, an on-the-record vote against a middle class tax cut that will threaten to cost each and every one of them their next reelection bid over the next six years, and will almost certainly keep the Senate in Democratic hands for the entire second term of the President.

Furthermore, Democrats were prepared to go straight out and do it again in the first two weeks of January, leaving Republicans no choice but to ignominiously compromise after being politically undressed. And for at least the second time that I've been watching, the President and the Democrats in Congress weathered criticism from our side to deliver a crushing legislative blow to the GOP.

And, of course, the annoying cuts for the wealthy last only until the next Congress after this, two years, giving us an opportunity to screw over the GOP yet again by forcing them to again hold middle class tax cuts hostage for their masters, this time on the eve of a critical election.

As far as opposition parties go, this GOP sucks as bad as any I've seen. They are worse than politically inadept, they can be easily lured into using their own corrupt behavior against themselves.

Of course, since this reality is never, ever properly reported to the people, it's an inside victory right now. But you'll see in 23 months how important it really was.

[paulkienitz]

62. This is good news.

To hear Cenk talking a few days ago, this would never have happened. "The White House sat in a room with Republicans and Democrats and managed to negotiate an actual compromise." -- true dat. This is NOT a case of Democrats caving. Hallelujah.

well, I didn't read it closely enough -- I may have to take that back.

[NeoConsSuck]

63. Throw in the estate tax changes

and this is worse than people expected. You're posting a story that is trying to put lipstick on a pig. It won't work.

[Bigmack]

70. I TOTALLY AGREE!

I may NEVER vote again. What's the f'ing point? In the end, they're ALL bought and sold to the highest bidder. Ms Bigmack

[regnaD kciN]

76. Those were going to go through anyway...

Both parties had agreed, over a year ago, that the estate tax would be set at 35% with an exemption of somewhere between $3.5 and $5 million. The only reason why it hadn't passed already is that Republicans got greedy and decided, if they held out, the new Congress (where, remember, they expected to control both houses) would abolish the estate tax altogether, permanently. So, essentially, this is just bundling into the deal something that was agreed upon long ago.

[sabrina 1]

90. Yes, a good way of putting it. The usual crumbs to the 'lesser people'

while Corporate America once again, gets richer, and richer and more and more powerful.

We will be expected to jump for joy because they allowed the unemployment extension.

The whole thing was a game. The Republicans know how to play, Democrats are always playing catch-up.

It works like this. Dems want to extend unemployment benefits. Repubs know they cannot really refuse as that will be remembered in 2012 and could cost them the majority.

So, they decided 'let's say no, UNLESS you give us what we want'. Dems, rather than calling their bluff, give in immediately. Fear of the right blaming THEM for not extending tax cuts. No guts to call their bluff, and Repubs know it. So it keeps happening.

This was so predictable, it is very sad that anyone still falls for it. More game-playing to keep up the illusion that the people have any power at all.

[GOTV]

64. Looks like a big win for the GOP and another step towards a 2012 defeat for Dems

[SkyDaddy7]

68. I can't believe you would actually want Obama to...

stand his (Your) political ground & allow the tax cuts to expire & no unemployment extension just to make a political point. WOW!

[mvd]

69. It's more than just a political point

The middle class tax cuts are small, the deficit would balloon further, and we take away a chance at messaging in 2012. Now 2012 will be about "raising taxes." You know the media won't separate fact from fiction.

[SkyDaddy7]

75. I totally agree but if Obama gets the unemployment extension

then many will at least have something for the holidays. The Republicans are going to stop everything over the next two years so at least Obama trying to get help to the middle class before it is too late...However, I doubt this deal will pass because way too many on both sides are in it to win rather than help. SAD!

I agree the American people are ignorant & the media is AWOL...Plus, there is talk radio & the vast media empire of Rupert Murdoch that actually controls the message in this country...I am SHOCK Obama & the Dems got what they did done over the past two years. I know 99.9% of folks here on DU think Obama is (Insert the most vile exaggeration you can) but i think he is a President before his time. Had McCain won the country would be in much worse shape & finally the public would realize the FOX & Talk Radio are lying to them.

[mvd]

79. That's the only thing keeping me from panning the deal

Unemployment benefits are vital in this economy. I've criticized Obama for compromising, but I can't get the unemployment benefits out of my mind.

[hollowdweller]

89. Obama won't get any votes from the unemployed over this

All it will do is make the GOP look like the winners and Obama look weak.

Now if the benefits were cut off because the GOP favored the rich Obama might be able to score their votes.

Also he could have made a major claim about cutting the deficit.

I just need to stop reading the news and just tune out politics as long as Obama is in power. It's just too painful to watch. Worse than the Bush years for me because Obama is so weak.

[Chan790]

81. I can't believe you would actually support bankrupting the country...

in order to make the rich richer...but there you are.

[GOTV]

100. You haven't a clue what I want.

[glinda]

73. Especially with all of the money (for elections) that they have just claimed.

[regnaD kciN]

77. Looks like you don't know what you're talking about...

The G.O.P. plan was to either get everything they wanted or let the tax cuts expire and let the anger of the middle class (which would have seen a hefty tax "increase" at a time when they were struggling) be directed at the "tax-and-spend Democrats." Then, when such anger resulted in the Repugs regaining control of the White House and Senate in two years, re-institute new cuts (probably on terms even more favorable to the rich) on a permanent basis.

Instead, we get a two-year extension which will prevent the G.O.P. from channeling that anger against us next time around, plus a continuation of vital-to-the-poor programs like the earned-income tax credit, plus extension of unemployment insurance for another thirteen months, plus a payroll-tax cut that will work as a stimulus to the economy and put more money in average people's pockets.

Putting it bluntly, this is a lot more than I dreamed Democrats would be able to get out of this situation (I figured the two-year tax-cut extension and nothing else would be the end result), and is a tribute to Obama's negotiating abilities. Of course, this being DU, it's unthinkable that we give Obama credit for anything, but this outcome really is surprising...and in a good way for us.

[sirthomas66]

88. That money going into people's pockets is part of their future

Social Security funds which will now be taxed at a higher rate than when they retire. This is an abject disaster.

[hollowdweller]

91. Have to agree

The payroll deduction is foot in the door to defund Social Security.

Obama worse dem so far in my lifetime!

[sirthomas66]

95. That's what I think also. And what is happening right now was planned

two years ago. If they try to defund SS too quickly, the US will fall.

[GOTV]

101. Looks like you got played just like Obama. This is better for the GOP than expiration ...

... They look like heroes to their voters and in two years, just in time for the presidential election, they get to use the tax cuts as an issue again. And being election year the Dems will be far too cowardly to oppose the extension again.

[Denninmi]

65. "Imperfect, but not that bad"

Is that sort of like hearing the doctor say, "wow, what a relief, you don't have liver cancer, you only have pancreatic cancer" ???

[Ebadlun]

71. To this non-American

it looks like the US government might actually be at least partially able to function over the next two years, which is a brighter prospect than seemed likely a month ago.

[bloomington-lib]

72. So letting it expire was supposed to help save 700 billion

Now that that hasn't happened, I'm guessing that it's going to cost a shit ton of money, raising the deficit. So now Obama has to cut money from somewhere else (social programs, govt jobs)to pay for this.

[sirthomas66]

74. This is summarily horrible. If Social Security Taxes are reduced, that

amount IS NOT going into the Social Security fund. Then say it gets extended. Divide your SS earnings by 40,000.00, then multiply that number by 800.00. Then take the future value for however many years you have left before SS income hits. This is the amount your social security income will be reduced by dependent on how many years the reduced tax is in place. This is an attack on Social Security made more palatable because the wage earner is taking that portion his/her SS money now. Sure, you could invest that additional money and make back the shortfall, but who is going to do that?

[regnaD kciN]

78. Scarcely...

This is a one-year cut at a time where we still need to "prime the pump." It will add to the deficit somewhat, but won't result in benefits being cut.

[sirthomas66]

85. It will absolutely result in the benefits being cut, and I would bet it

will be extended. This was the plan if the Catfood commission failed. So we prime the pump while injuring 40 year olds who lose the reduced SS tax amount at its future value dependent on how many years the cut is kept in place. And the increased gross income is taxable at a higher rate than SS retirement income.

[GOTV]

103. Every dollar added to the debt creates more pressure to reduce SS benefits ...

... They are just looking for excuses and the debt is one of the best ones.

[salib]

82. Precisely what I thought - An attack on Social Security and Medicare

And "investing that additional money" does not help ANYONE WHO REALLY NEEDS IT. If we were getting so much money to invest that it could cover what Social Security does, we would never have needed it.

Don't buy this shit.

[sirthomas66]

86. Exactly. People have GOT to be told how this affects their paychecks

now and their retirement funds in the future. It makes them marginally better now and who knows how much worse in the future.

[hollowdweller]

93. Foot in the door to defund SS. From a dem no less. Go figure

[sirthomas66]

97. I've been a Democrat since 1964. It is the worst decision I have ever

seen...but it was planned long ago.

[markpkessinger]

80. Here's what no one seems to get . . .

Or at least, no one who is currently defending the President's latest capitulation . . .

By extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest citizens, it will ultimately cost all of us far more than the few measly bucks most of us get in our paychecks as a result of the Bush Tax cuts. That's why I say: let them all expire!.

[sirthomas66]

87. I now agree with that.....................

[w4rma]

84. He's digging a hole and burying himself. (nt)

[sendero]

94. Not that bad?

.. not that bad if you are a Republican douchebag.

[bhikkhu]

98. Its idiotic.

The repugs get what they want, and will just make it permanent in two years, even if it cripples the government. That's the whole idea after all, and there is a reason why this is "the last straw". Really, this country is becoming a second-rate ineffective farce, and the government continues to lead the way. There's only so far you can go down that road without economic and social collapse, and we're a long ways gone already.

[mmonk]

99. I have a problem with Bush economics.

[Roland99]

102. Two years, eh? How convenient! Then, in 2 years if they take back the WH and Senate, then what???

Fucking STUPID-ASS move.


Fucking stupid!

[Blandocyte]

105. Sell. Out. nt

[prodigals0n]

109. A. Gain. nt

[newspeak]

115. this was discussed on KO and Rachel Maddow

I'm saying he did not fight. The unemployment benefits are not for those who have been on it over a certain amount of time (can't remember how many weeks). So, still some folks are going to fall. In his speech, he talked about getting the repugs to go for the child tax credit (well, that's a repug creation), the student tax credit and earned income tax credit, were both in the stimulus package (shouldn't even been considered in arbitration). The repugs, basically, get everything from still obscene discounted taxes on the wealthy to inheritance tax breaks. This little piece of shite will add to our deficit big time and not help economically-as a matter of fact, it will probably hurt us more. Remember the Newt saying he wanted to drown government in the bathtub? Well, we maybe seeing the depression without a safety net again, because of these sociopathic greedhead shysters. They're trying as hard as they can to take us back to those gilded years of robber barons, poor wages, unsafe food and water and pure corrupt greed.