Iraq handover too soon: senators

[seemslikeadream]

"This is a huge new exposure of Americans," Lugar told ABC television's This Week.

"At this point, I would have thought there would have been a more comprehensive plan."

Delaware Senator Joseph Biden, the top Democrat on the committee, echoed Lugar's concerns about the administration's post-occupation plans.

He told Fox News Sunday the training of Iraqi forces would take years, not months.

"We're going to end up with a civil war in Iraq if in fact we decide we can turn this over, including the bulk of the security, to the Iraqis between now and then," he said.

Iraq has seen some of its worst violence in the past month

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9192814%255E1702,00.html

Transcript: Gingrich, Biden on 'Fox News Sunday'

BIDEN: We not only don't know the panel, we don't know what the follow-on entity for Bremer is going to be.

Who is going to be the one, when Chalabi cuts his deal with Sistani that eviscerates part of the constitution we think is necessary for a republican form of government in Iraq to take place, who is going to be the one to march in and tell them, "Fellows, back in the tent, and figure out another way," just like we did in Afghanistan with Karzai? Who's going to deliver that message?

Do we want that being an American ambassador delivering that message, an American ambassador who has the largest embassy in the world with 1,000 Americans and 2,000 nationals in that embassy? It seems to me that's counterintuitive.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,116103,00.html

[saigon68]

1. Maybe these politicians should go

They will be welcomed warmly in Fallujah

[seemslikeadream]

2. Testify

n/t

[H2O Man]

3. bush & cheney have created a huge problem.

Reducing their influence in the world is essential. Getting the U.N. to help resolve the complexe problems in Iraq can only follow after the defeat of bush in November. This is scarey, because it allows for an out-of-control conflict to continue for at least seven more months. I would like to see the U.N. take a stronger anti-bush stance before then. As long as Halliburton is involved in the oil business in Iraq, there can be no peace.

[termo]

12. UN will probably wait

What is the interest of Russia, China and France to help US and UK ?
la note sera salée

[DulceDecorum]

4. What civil war?

I thought ALL the Iraqi were
United Against Bush.

[brokensymmetry]

5. Sometimes, there isn't a good answer.

I believe this is one of those times. If we leave, all Hell will break loose. If we don't, it may well be worse - with our troops as the target. And the rest of the world isn't likely to come to our aid.

If * has any luck to use up, I hope he gets us out of this...

[ImpeachBush2004]

6. June 30th????

I guess we're not going to be able to hand the Iraqi people their government and pull our troops out on June 30th after all...

:shrug:

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. This is just semantics

The US isn't planning to ever turn over Iraq to anybody. The Iraqi people could have a full on civil war outside the gates of fort bush (or whatever it's called) and they wouldn't care. The US is like a blood sucking insect that has infested that country. The US will leave when the last drop of oil is extracted.

[JohnyCanuck]

9. I agree

As I posted on another thread, I believe the main drive for this invasion came from a desire to control a strategic oil rich country in the middle of an oil rich region and to establish bases from which US troops could sally forth as necessary to maintain US hegemony in the region as per the PNAC plans. The bullshit about establishing democracy and liberating Iraqis from an evildoing tyrant (after the WMD fiasco was exposed as a lie) is just the smokescreen to fool the Fox/CNN propaganda consuming useful idiots who think GWB really does get his directions from Jesus. For an article on the role of propaganda in GWB's America see http://www.hermes-press.com/brainwash1.htm

To withdraw from Iraq would mean the neo-cons admitting that the hidden (but real) objectives of the invasion were not attainable after all and significant amounts of money, influence, credibility and blood had been thrown down the drain (not they would care about the wasted blood too much)for no significant return on the investment. In addition, a forced withdrawal from Iraq would show the world what a bunch of clueless fuckups the neo-cons really are, and this would be a tremendous loss of face for them. I should think they will try every trick in the book before admitting they have created one of the worst foreign policy disasters in US history.

[seemslikeadream]

10. U.S. to rely more on contract soldiers

"There are hundreds of these companies doing business in Iraq," Nelson says, "and the longer the conflict goes on, the more money they make. They have no incentive for ending the conflict."

more
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0404/04contractors.html

[saigon68]

18. A picture of the mercenary

[terisel]

8. The senators were the dupes...and they still want to advise?

Best approach-Congress presents Bush/Cheney with the following scenario:Cheney resigns and Bush appoints vp. Bush resigns. New vp takes over as president-ll in 1 weeks time.

The new president will have to be someone of our choosing-not some Bush apologist, and will have to project strength to deal with Iraq, as well as a humanitarian intent, and be able to line up international support pronto.

[happyending]

11. the Iraqis hate the UN too

As I recall from reading the news,
the Iraqis are no friends of the UN.

Granted, it would be better for the UN
to take over where the US has failed,
but even that answer might be overly optimistic.
The UN held down Iraq for what, 10 or 12 years
after the first war against Iraq.

And now there is the issue of
corruption in the oil for food program.
Nope, we can't just count on handing off the ball
to the UN. The Iraqis see the UN as just
an arm of the US.

Recall, please, the bombing of the UN headquarters.

What the answer is, I dunno.

(edited for weird spacing)

[happyending]

17. on the other hand

Sistani, the most imortant of the Shiite clerics,
has called for UN interventions, at least as
far as elections go in Iraq.

(edited for spelling)

[teryang]

13. Time to leave n/t

[seemslikeadream]

14. Secretary Rumsfeld Message to the People of Iraq

Presenter: Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld Wednesday, April 30, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secretary Rumsfeld Message to the People of Iraq


Rumsfeld: Hello. I'm Don Rumsfeld, the American secretary of Defense. I am delighted to be able to visit Baghdad and Iraq, your country, to witness the liberation of the country. The American people share your joy and pleasure that the tyranny that was here is gone. We've watched you embrace your freedom: pulling down statues of Saddam Hussein, worshipping freely for the first time in decades, debating the future of your country, and even raising your voices in dissent on some occasion, but without fear of torture or death.......
............


Back home in America, I have three children and six grandchildren, and I want the same things for them that each of you want for your children and your grandchildren: safety, security and a just society where they have the freedom to pursue their dreams. We are committed to helping you as you build a new Iraq where your children and you will have those opportunities

Let me be clear: Iraq belongs to you. The coalition has no intention of owning or running Iraq. Our coalition came here for a purpose, and it was to remove a regime that oppressed your people and threatened ours. Our goal is to restore stability and security so that you can form an interim government of your own and, eventually, a free Iraqi government; a government of your choosing, a government that is of Iraqi design and of Iraqi choice. The coalition will stay as long as necessary to help you do that, and not one day longer.

Thank you for listening.

[bluestateguy]

15. I don't like Lugar's politics, but he's honest

The Bush team badly wants to hand over Iraq, on paper at least, with a lavish ceremony as "evidence" that things are just going swimmingly over there. Then there would be a whole reel of flattering news footage over the turnover ceremony, which would quickly find it's way into Bush campaign ads.

Lugar was at least honest enough to admit what most objective experts (separate from one's opinion on whether or not the war was just) say is necessary: more troops and a slower timetable toward sovereignty. Making for nice photo ops and footage for Bush campaign ads is not Dick Lugar's top priority.

[seemslikeadream]

16. we sacrifice for the liberty of strangers

“America is a strong nation, and honorable in the use of our strength.
We exercise power without conquest, and we sacrifice for the liberty of strangers.”


- Bush, State of the Union, Jan. 23, 2003