Sanders Calls For Progressive Meeting, Alternative To Fiscal Commission

[sasha031]

Source: Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- Clearly displeased with the initial deficit-reduction recommendations offered by the fiscal commission chairmen, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) announced on Friday that he will craft and introduce his own proposals as an alternative.The Vermont Independent said that he will work with members of Congress, labor unions, seniors' organizations and others to develop alternative suggestions. And while he didn't get into the weeds, he did offer a few general areas that he hopes to target, including ending Bush-era tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans, chopping off Cold War-era Pentagon programs and eliminating of tax credits for big oil companies.Of the ideas pushed by the commission co-chairmen -- former Sen. Alan K. Simpson and Erskine Bowles, former President Bill Clinton's former chief of staff -- Sanders offered the following:
It is no surprise that these two favor draconian cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the needs of our veterans, and education while proposing tax reductions for the wealthy and large profitable corporations... Simpson is a darling of the Republican right wing and Bowles is a former investment banker who made a fortune on Wall Street. Their plan was floated amid reports that the two were struggling to cobble together enough support on their own commission to go forward by a Dec. 1 deadline.The likelihood that a progressive alternative for deficit reduction would get a vote in the Senate, let alone a hearing, is slimmer than the chances of Simpson and Bowles' recommendations making it to the floor unscathed. But Sander's effort isn't necessarily about getting a vote. Rather, there is, currently, one blueprint being offered for the task of deficit reduction and it's largely anathema to the progressive community. Having a second proposal out there serves the purpose of giving the negotiations a bit of bearing."We all know that there are a number of fair and progressive ways to address the deficit crisis that would not harm the middle class and those who have already lost their jobs, homes, life savings and ability to send their kids to college," Sanders writes, in a letter to those he's inviting for discussions. "The time has come to put these proposals into a package so that the progressive view becomes a part of the national discussion."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/12/sanders-calls-for-progres_n_782879.html

---

Senator Sanders, Thank you

[BumRushDaShow]

1. K&R for Bernie!

Let's hope his ideas get some traction.

[creon]

61. too bad

It is quite sad that the USA has never developed a real social democratic party.

[1776Forever]

2. Sen. Bernie Sanders you make me think more & more about becoming an Independent! n/t

:yourock:

[Plucketeer]

8. I agree

Anyone for starting an INDEPENDDENTUNDERGROUND site?

[speppin]

22. yup.

[Jackpine Radical]

45. There are a couple, not exactly with that name.

Rules forbid my saying more in public.

[TheUnspeakable]

136. Please, say no more...

Say No More "Help"

[gateley]

138. I don't even have to look. I quote this often and these days most people have

no idea what I'm referring to! Thanks for the smile! :hi:

[TheUnspeakable]

139. I know-I' ve been saying it since "1965 !!

[Iowa]

87. Yes. This is needed.

[sasha031]

12. me too, a liberal independent

[Jackpine Radical]

46. Maybe a Progressive Independent?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. he makes me think more and more about moving to Vermont!

[speppin]

24. +1

[Sherman A1]

102. Agreed

I think I will start looking at that idea.

[ProudDad]

23. Bernie is a Socialist... (n/t)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. so is Jesus

[socialist_n_TN]

36. So am I

:)

[liberalmike27]

96. A-men my brotha

So am I.

Happy Birthday by the way.

JV

[dotymed]

125. Few of us in TN...

Is there a way to "declare" this on our Voter Registration card?

[RoccoR5955]

39. Jesus used to mow my lawn... He's not a socialist, he's Mexican! n/t

[Truth2Tell]

52. Ahhh, a Mexican lawn mowing quip. How clever. nt

[Enthusiast]

104. He's a Mexican socialist. nt

[Jakes Progress]

126. Sounds like just what we need.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

135. you say that like it's a *bad* thing

:shrug:

I kind of like the programs we have that are socialistic, like medicare, medicaid, VA healthcare, public education, soc. security, infrastructure.....

I think we need more.

:shrug:

[patrice]

148. Please tell us why we should be concerned abou that. I swear, I honestly want to know.

Apparently there is something I don't understand; could you please explain.

[Dragonfli]

43. He makes me sure that I should be a Democratic Socialist

They have not moved farther and farther right every single year like in my party where a moderate Democrat such as myself is now derided as a "far leftie" by the "new dems". The "classic Democrats" like myself that have not changed ideology the past 30 years are no longer welcome in this party and are barely even tolerated.

Sanders makes sense just like I felt FDR did. The DLC party does not make much sense to me anymore.

[Dappleganger]

93. It's pretty sad, isn't it?

I'm glad you're seeing it for what it really is.

:hi:

[Dragonfli]

100. It's sad alright, most of the good in the country came from the "classic Dems"

As far as seeing it for what it is, well it would be very hard to miss unless one were blind or couldn't remember how the party used to be and what it once stood for while literally watching the obvious 30 year shift to the right.

The goalposts are now further to the right than Nixon was. They really don't even bother hide it.

:hi:

[Celtic Raven]

142. You're not alone

I've been a Liberal Democrat my whole voting life, come from a long line of Liberal Dems, and I remember what the party stood for before the cult of Reagan. I didn't leave the party, but Democratic Socialist may be the only party of Democrats I'm welcome in now. The New Dems don't have the same commitment to the well being of the average American that the Democrats traditionally fought for. And I can't reconcile myself to that.

[tomp]

63. really, you want to join the party of joe lieberman?

"independent" means nothing. especially if in the end all you have to vote for is a rep or a dem.

and remember ol' bernie put his stamp on obama's health care sell out, as did kucinich.

this strategy, of having a "progressive" here and there in the govt. does not work. it is illusion.

[liberation]

69. LOL...

... speaking of stuff which does not work.

[Enthusiast]

105. LOL, too.

Blinding us with bullshit. As if we don't hear enough of it.:fistbump:

[glowing]

117. Yes, and VT is asking for a waiver to create a "medicare for all" type structure

from the Federal Govt when they set up their healthcare model for 2014... So, they may be the test model for logical, affordable healthcare.

[Celtic Raven]

140. Independent means a helluva lot

to hear the party leaders and talking heads. They count on having the base in their pocket because as they like to say "where are they going to go?". It's the Independents that are courted and negotiated with so they'll swing Democratic in the elections. Being a Liberal Independent might be the one way to get more progressive voices heard.

I have more in common with Berni Sanders than with Joe Lieberman and don't mind anyone knowing it.

[tomp]

160. sure, but having I after your name obviously isn't the answer. nt

[Celtic Raven]

164. Why?

IIRC Leiberman was always in the catbird seat when the we needed votes. He gets whatever he wants while we go begging, hat in hand, for crumbs.

More Liberal Independents in the mold of Bernie Sanders caucusing with us, and pushing back against the Republicans and the Teabaggers, wouldn't be a bad thing.

[tomp]

177. sanders is apparently pushing back against OBAMA's committee....

....which is the proximal cause of our concerns about SS.

the letter after one's name is irrelevant. how they vote is the only thing that matters.

i suspect that something similar to hrc will happen with ss, with the so-called progressives voting for whatever obama wants.

only time will tell.

[Oak2004]

184. Especially since Bernie isn't *really* independent

He founded the Progressive Coalition, which became the Vermont Progressive Party. The only reason he does not run as an official Prog is that that would mean he could not caucus with the Democrats (meaning no committee assignments, etc).

Look at his campaign literature and the Prog campaign literature: identical in appearance except for no moose (the Prog logo) and no "Vermont Progressive Party" reference. And check out the address of the campaign headquarters for both the Progs and Bernie when Bernie is running for reelection (identical). Even the Prog website lists him as sorta-kinda one of their own.

Bernie is a Prog in every sense except the official one.

[dflprincess]

65. He makes me want to be a Socialist

and if he wasn't married, I'd hunt him down and beg him to be mine :loveya:

[eridani]

90. I'm married, and not only that--

--am well past menopause. I still want his baby. Or Alan Grayson's.

[dflprincess]

94. Do you remember on the old "Second City TV" show

there was a character named "Lola Heatherton" (I think Catherine O'Hara played her) and everytime a man said something she liked she'd scream "I love you! I want to bear your children!"

I have to admit to doing that a few times when I've been listening to Bernie or Grayson and I am also past menopause.

[TheUnspeakable]

137. "Mummy Theresa, you're so blessed, it's scary!"

Lola Heatherton when she visited Mother Theresa

[patrice]

147. 1+

[DesertFlower]

85. about a year ago, he said he's a socialist democrat.

whatever he is i like him.

[Dappleganger]

92. Already there.

:evilgrin:

[abelenkpe]

3. Sweet!

I hope this is gets as much press as the Simpson/Bowles proposal.

[Nite Owl]

4. Thanks Bernie

always on our side.

[haikugal]

5. Great News! Go Bernie

and Thank You for having our backs.

[harvey007]

6. Common sense and cojones

We need more senators like Bernie Sanders.

[molly77]

7. Sen. Sanders

Thank you for a sane proposal.

[Kingofalldems]

9. K and R

Great idea!

[johnnyplankton]

10. What Do You Know? Common Sense From an Independent.

Bernie Rocks. Being an Independent today just means you get to hold your nose and vote Democratic. I've been doing it for years. Especially since the Republicans haven't have anybody that can rightly be called sane or honest in years.

[glitch]

16. His particular brand of Independent isn't Centrist.

Which is why he makes so much sense.

[flamingdem]

18. He's socialist, just like Lawrence O'Donnell! nt

[ProudDad]

25. Bernie is a Socialist... (n/t)

[AlbertCat]

29. Bernie is a Socialist...

Good!
It may be the way to go. America has always worked better when it was a socialistic democracy, rather than a capitalistic plutocracy.

[eridani]

91. Only in America

In Europe he'd be a center left Social Democrat.

[patrice]

149. Please tell us how we don't have Socialism for Wall Street/Trans-national Financial Fiefdoms/US Cham

ber of Commerce.

[4dsc]

11. Bernie is great. nt

[xchrom]

13. Recommend

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. Love Ya Bernie!

[Zenlitened]

17. K & enthusiastic R! - n/t

[NorthCarolina]

19. K&R. Now this is some good news for a change. nt

[nashville_brook]

20. oh hell yeah.

[librechik]

21. Great idea

but it will be demonized and ignored.

[Bryn]

54. Not if we don't let them ignore it.

Not if we can all pull together and push for it.

[customerserviceguy]

131. Agreed, and it will put the remaining Blue Dogs in a tough position

My guess is that they'll go for the Rethug proposals, in hopes of either staying in office in 2012, or coming back to it that year, if they've already lost. Sen. Sanders doesn't have a lot of time if he hopes to accomplish something before the new Congress is sworn in.

It's too bad we couldn't have seen this leadership before the election, and it should have come from our President.

[ProudDad]

26. Hint for Obama...

You'd do better in 2012 if you pushed Bernie's program instead of the bullshit your "cat food commission" is shoveling out...

[tomp]

66. what if it is more important to obama to do the bidding of the rich....

.....than to win the next election?

[ProudDad]

79. He thinks he can only win the next election

by doing the bidding of the elites who paid to put him there... :shrug:

[tomp]

83. nah, he'd have to be blind to not know he's losing his base.

he had the opportunity to waltz into a second term but instead he decided to give the store away to the rich.

this was the plan from the start. he may get away with it and get re-elected. but he knows what his primary job is.

[ProudDad]

86. They figure; who else is the "base" going to vote for...

So why bother with "liberals" and "Progressives" and their opinions...

They believe that they'll con enough "centrist independents", youngsters and other impressionable people with short attention spans...

Into voting for him again...

Against Sarah Palin...

You don't want to change horses in midstream with at least 2 wars going on, do you?

Bla-bla-bla...

[Kyad02]

120. I know what you mean....

Still might have to vote third pasrty (Green?) if Obama continues to sell out his promises.

[True_Blue]

145. I never understood why anyone would vote 3rd party

Now I'm seriously considering it. I can't vote for someone that would extend tax cuts for the wealthy and cut SS to pay for it. It would be a serious mistake for any politician to vote for cuts to SS. Almost every worker in this country pays into SS - it's a huge constituency.

[tomp]

127. yes, and that shows INTENTION.

and that is what is wrong with american politics, there is no REAL choice.

AND this is no different from how it has ever been. the success of this strategy is evident every day, every election cycle.

AND the same is not true form the right. the most insane fascist ideas from the right are given credence by the republicans, yet demonstrably sane progressive ideas get nowhere near democratic leadership and the party cannot carry them or oppose the right.

This is why i've been saying as long as i can remember that the democratic party is the biggest obstacle to progress.

[ProudDad]

27. FYI - Bernie is a Socialist

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

"Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives."

And don't forget the Long Emergency...let's try to preserve the Earth as a viable habitat while we're at it...

[Enthusiast]

106. In other words Democratic Socialists

would oppose things like privatizing the water supply and or water delivery system? Because, you know, while a few would get filthy rich the rest of us would pay dearly.

[AlbertCat]

28. Well, if Obama or a Dem is not gonna show leadrership...

.... SOMEONE's got to!

[AzDar]

31. Sanders/ Grayson 2016!!

:thumbsup:

[swilton]

49. Why not 2012 - Obama has clearly lost his backbone.

[dana_b]

71. I like the sound of that

although I don't think it would stand a chance in hell. Th corporations (being the people that they are) would knock them down in a hot minute.

[NorthCarolina]

73. Never say never. Perhaps independent thinking will prevail. nt

[Honeycombe8]

32. This sounds like a great idea. nt

[KamaAina]

33. Ironically, labor has a representative on the Cat Food Commission

Andy Stern, longtime president of SEIU.

[ProudDad]

37. Well, there's labor and there's labor...

I've heard some disturbing things about SEIU Union Poaching and setting up company unions to keep the "militants" out... :shrug:

But it is apparently true that Andy's SEIU organized some of the most powerless workers in USAmerica and probably improved a lot of worker's lives...

[AlbertCat]

55. Ironically, labor has a representative on the Cat Food Commission

Ironically, the rest of the Cat Food Commission hates Simpson's & Bowel's ideas too.

[ProudDad]

80. Probably true...

too bad THEY don't get any airtime...

[avaistheone1]

34. #45 Recommend

and proud of it

[socialist_n_TN]

35. Yes Bernie! This is what I've been talking about..........

for 2 years now. GET THE PROGRESSIVE IDEAS OUT THERE ON THE TABLE! It doesn't really matter at this point if they can be enacted. What's important is that there be and ALTERNATIVE being discussed.

IF it's out there and IF it actually gets discussed, I actually BELIEVE that the common sense progressive ideas that actually HELP the other 98% rather than the richest 2% will eventually win out.

[Dinger]

38. Bernie, You Are A Breath Of Fresh Air!

Luv ya!:loveya:

[stevedeshazer]

40. We need a dozen Bernies!

[unkachuck]

58. I'd like to see....

....99 Bernies but I'd settle for 60....

[Skink]

41. Isn't this what the elected are supposed to do?

not that I want republican proposals.

[Forkboy]

42. K&R for pragmatism.

[ooglymoogly]

44. It is truly odd and in fact scarry that common sense is such an

uphill slog.

Bernie is true blue and we are lucky he is where he is. kr

[swilton]

47. End the Cold War Era Pentagon Programs !!!

Long overdue - and for that matter why don't they just think about ending the Pentagon!

[Enthusiast]

107. Including foreign entanglements

like in Central and South America. You know, making the world safe for raping and pillaging by multi-national corporations.

[scarletwoman]

48. Thank you, Senator Sanders! At least we have ONE person on the side of the working class!

No surprise that he's not a Dem.

[prodigals0n]

50. I've GOT to move to Vermont someday

Just so I can say Bernie Sanders is my Senator.

[democrank]

51. We can always count on Bernie Sanders.

What a breath of fresh air he is!

[Bryn]

53. Let's us all get behind him to push it

k&r

[dana_b]

72. agreed - writing to him tonight n/t

[liberal N proud]

56. Better move fast if they are going to beat Bohner and his minions

[nckjm]

57. Bernie, progressives owe you so much

When I am tempted to give up, I remember there are brave souls like you who are fighting for progressive principles. Thank you so much!

[skepticscott]

59. We don't need proposals

and we don't need a context-free list of suggested cuts, and rants designed to appeal to progressives. While viscerally satisfying, they solve nothing. We need a budget. A fully realized, detailed and realistic budget, showing exactly where the income increases and programs cuts will come, in order to eliminate the deficit and start paying down the debt. And that budget has to take full account of the effect on the economy of taking increased tax revenues and sending them to those holding US debt. Until Saunders produces that, on paper, for everyone to see, this is nothing but political grandstanding.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Did the commission produce a fully realized detailed budget?

I sure didn't see that. I saw a list of suggested cuts, context free. Thus far Sanders has just announce his intention of create a counter to the Simpson Severity Suggestions, so it seems a bit early to criticize that which as yet has not been begun as being incomplete.
Any by the way, while the President seems not to comprehend this fact, most of politics is grandstanding. If ever there was a moment that called for a bit of flourish, this is it.

[liberation]

70. There has been a narrative in this country for a few decades which states that...

Progressives are subjected to arbitrary impossible standards, which the "moderate and reasonable" contingent imposing them do not even have to pretend to abide by. Anything that a progressive says and does is subject and needs to be triple checked, moderates however are assumed to be playing n-dimensional chess no matter the evidence to the contrary.

Reality is much more cozy to the "moderates" that way...

[Enthusiast]

109. Plus Fucking One! nt

[skepticscott]

114. Total lack of substance

which is exactly the sticking point whenever this issue is discussed.

[skepticscott]

113. Yes, most of politics IS grandstanding

including this Commission. And far too many voters eat that up and mistake it for substance. Why do you think this country is in such a fucked-up state? This problem has been around for quite a while, and you'd think that anyone who claims to have a solution at this point would skip the hot air and get right to the specifics, but Saunders is just doing what many other politicians have done when trying to look like they have the answer: Rant about this program or that, rant about which group should be paying more taxes (or about waste, fraud and abuse, the old favorite of many), but holding back when he has to tell people exactly where the pain will come, because he know that being completely up front about the problem will be a political negative.

[Bluenorthwest]

122. Sanders.

All of your editorial words are out of place. Senator Sanders does not 'claim to have a solution' nor is he 'trying to look like he has the answer'. He is not 'ranting'. He said what he said, and everyone here can read it. No one else sees a rant, or a man claiming to know the answer. Senator Sanders, for those of us who at least know his name, has a long reputation as an excellent and clearly spoken servant of the people. Most of America hears exactly what he is saying, even if it flies by you as you call for double standards and raise the bar for those you do not agree with.
Stick with the Cat Food Recs if you wish, I'd like to see the alternative from the Sanders group. While doing that, learn that knowing the actual names of people you are going to disparage is advisable.

[skepticscott]

156. So you're basing your refutation of what I said

on a typo? Get over yourself. Sanders' past record is irrelevant to this issue, and if he is NOT proposing an answer to the problem of overwhelming decifit and debt, then this really is nothing but grandstanding. What I said, but which you apparently didn't grasp, is that this is not a new problem. Sanders certainly did not just become aware of it last week. He's had a long time to formulate a detailed and specific budget and economic plan to solve it, so my question (again) is, where is it? Show us the hard numbers, Bernie, and maybe THEN you'll deserve to be taken seriously.

[Celtic Raven]

144. Join his mailing list if you're not already on it

so you have more information about the man. At least you'll be able to spell his name right in your comments.

[skepticscott]

157. And yet another person

basing their refutation of my post on a typo. If you'd like to make my typing a more important issue than an 11 trillion dollar public debt, there's nothing I can do about that.

I'll ask you too...where is Sanders' complete budget and economic plan to address the problem? If I had been on his mailing list for the last year, would he have revealed it to me, or is he going to waffle like every other politician who is asked for specifics on this issue?

[Celtic Raven]

162. It's not about a typo

it's about consistently misspelling someone's name you are disparaging.
IF I were to be discussing you, for whatever reason, you can be sure I'd take the time to spell your DU handle correctly.

As for your question - "where is Sanders' complete budget and economic plan to address the problem?"

He's probably just as surprised as I am that he'd have to come up with one. One would expect a draft by a commission set up by a Democratic president to be based on Democratic principles -- working in the best interest of the American people. He probably didn't expect to have to counter attacks on the safety nets put in place since the Great Republican Depression.

I certainly don't expect Bernie to whip out a complete budget and economic plan overnight and wonder why you would.
I am on his email list and know about the programs he proposes and supports for the people of VT, and that whatever Bernie presents for the benefit of the rest of the people in this nation will be in our best interest and worth considering by our President and this commission.

I cannot say the same about Simpson & Bowles.

[skepticscott]

165. You still don't get the concept

that this is NOT a new problem. It did not just become a problem in the weeks or months before Obama set up the Commission, and it certainly didn't just become a problem when the Commission sent up their trial balloon last week. So the question remains, why is Sanders weighing in on the issue now, when he has nothing more substantial to offer than the people he is criticizing? An important part of the job that Sanders was elected to and is paid for is the responsible management of this country's economic affairs. If he thinks the overwhelming deficit and national debt is important enough to make noise about now, why did he not think so 6 months or a year ago, or when he took office? Why has he NOT spent that time coming up with a budget and economic plan to address the problem, if he's really planning to do so now (which I seriously doubt)?

[Celtic Raven]

166. Why are you so invested

in lamblasting Bernie for offering to come up with another option?

[skepticscott]

174. I'm saying that there is nothing in what he said

worthy of praise or a flood of K&Rs. It's just more of the same thing we've heard for decades, by politicians of all stripes, and it's deeply disappointing every time. When he actually DOES come up with another option that is concrete and specific, then we can talk.

[patrice]

150. Re "where the pain will come" Oh, there's a good strategy in high-stakes negotiations!!

Tell EVERYONE up front what you're willing to pay for what you want done!!!

Perhaps you should just stick to your microscopes; it appears that you're at a serious disadvantage out in the bigger freer world.

[skepticscott]

153. Perhaps you should come into the real world yourself

and tell us all how a deficit of over 1 TRILLION dollars and a public debt over 11 trillion can be erased without hardship somewhere. And be VERY specific, please. Politicians for decades have been ducking this, promising to cut spending and balance the budget, but they always, always, ALWAYS waffle and stammer and hem and haw when asked for the specifics of just where they will cut. Do you have no clue that this is where the problem lies?

[patrice]

167. WHO said there would be no hardship, besides you of course. Straw Man.

[skepticscott]

173. It was you

who stated that where and how the hardship would come should be kept a secret. I stated that anyone proposing a solution should be honest and open about it. Which of us is being disingenuous? How can any budget proposal be debated until the details are available to everyone involved?

[patrice]

179. You mischaracterize my point. Not a secret. As in any negotiation, it's a matter of TIMING.

You demonstrate less than honest intent in your posts. End of "conversation".

[skepticscott]

180. Then please enlighten us

how you would get a budget proposal even to the point of being negotiable if you withheld important details about it, to spring them on your opponents at the cleverest possible moment? What sensible person would even discuss the issue under those circumstances? There really are no secrets to the process, since there are only so many places to cut the budget that can make a real difference. There are only two types of politicians on this issue...those who will speak the hard, unvarnished truth about what will be necessary to erase a deficit larger than a trillion dollars and an 11 trillion dollar debt on the one side, and political cowards and grandstanders on the other. The latter are the vast majority.

[laughingliberal]

64. -1000. nt

[skepticscott]

115. More lack of substance

do you have any real answers, or do you just repeat the mantra of "Tax the rich bastards!"?

[ProudDad]

78. The REAL bottom line is that in the

Ponzi scheme laughingly called the USAmerican "economy" the "debt" and "deficit" don't matter...

There are two economies...

The REAL economy of movement of goods and services that humans need in order to live decent lives...

And the bullshit economy built on Money as Debt, where Foma such as the "stock market" and "National Debt" and "Deficits" and "Financial Managers" and other leeches on the REAL economy exist and pretend to matter...

What you're asking for is more bullshit to fill the trough in order to "justify" the fake "economy"...

That latter economy could disappear tomorrow (as it DID in the early 1930s) and people who were prepared could go along about their lives with little effect...especially now that the briefly less unequal distribution of resources that accidentally occurred in the 50s and 60s has been ended over the last 35 years...

Relocalize, steady state economies that fit the actual resources and most folks would do ok...

Let the Earth heal...

Of course, the banksters and their parasites in Congress and the White House would have to learn how to plant and harvest, cook and sew and build real things just like the rest of us...

[Enthusiast]

108. Don't you find it odd/curious

that the right wing TV talking heads are nearly out of their minds with concerns over the deficit, but only when there is a Democratic President. That doesn't seem just a tad curious?

[skepticscott]

116. Do I find it curious that

right wing nutballs criticize Democratic politicians for the same things that they praise or let slide from Republican politicians? Not at all. That's their job. It's what they do. I'd expect nothing else. Nor am I surprised that so many citizens are taken in by it. People are stupid.

[donco6]

170. So even proposing to talk about other ideas is a bad thing?

No one can say a thing unless he has a full-blown solution in-hand? Why? That makes no sense at all.

[skepticscott]

175. I explained all of that above

Proposals are a dime a dozen, as are politicians promising to balance the budget.

[donco6]

178. But to come up with a solution does require conferring with others.

I've put together budgets of over $50 million in my school district. But if I just waltzed in with a full-blown final copy they'd laugh me out of the place. It's preposterous to even think it would be possible. It requires collaboration.

The issue with the Catfood Commission, however, is that Obama selected two known Social Security . . . haters is the best word I can think of . . . to actually CHAIR the committee which provided the proposal. When you select a chair, you are selecting the guidance, so he had to know what they were going to filter out and leave in. So Sanders wants to throw it out and start over. I'm on HIS side on this one. And there isn't a thing wrong with that.

[beforeyoureyes]

60. Bernie Sanders 2012

[tomp]

68. close barn door after horse gone 2012! nt

[laughingliberal]

67. Huge K&R! nt

[usaf-vet]

74. IMO Bernie Sanders is what we should all want from our representatives in congress.

He is and honest man. That sure seems to be missing in most if not all of them.

[MrMickeysMom]

75. This makes sense

I wonder if it will draw the attention from the media.

[ProudDad]

76. The Hijacked Commission...

"Count me among those who always believed that President Obama made a big mistake when he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform — a supposedly bipartisan panel charged with coming up with solutions to the nation’s long-run fiscal problems. It seemed obvious, as soon as the commission’s membership was announced, that “bipartisanship” would mean what it so often does in Washington: a compromise between the center-right and the hard-right."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/opinion/12krugman.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

[Celtic Raven]

146. That's a bumpersticker in waiting

for spelling. Duh.

Bipartisanship 2010: Compromise
between Center-Right & Hard-Right

:evilfrown:

[defendandprotect]

77. K&R -- Was listening to Sanders on Thom Hartmann today -- not all of it ...

Why don't we have more Bernie Sanders in Congress?

Not usual for people to ask him to run for president --

[Enthusiast]

110. The media demonizes

any candidate even a tad left of center as some crazy wild eyed liberal. Look how they characterize Obama for Christ's sake. Of course you know that.

I don't know how many times I heard a mainstream a Republican suggest that Cuba's health care system was the model for 'Obama-care'-or something to that effect. It's the media and its 24/7/365 obfuscation.

[defendandprotect]

163. I know from reports here .... how anyone could be watching this garbage I don't know ... except

Ko, Maddow, Schultz --

Hartmann, Rhodes ...

Of course, I also mean to say not UNUSUAL for people to ask him why he doesn't run

for president!

[ozone_man]

81. Maybe Obama should appoint Bernie

head the commission. Or maybe Obama is playing some really deep chess here. One can hope, but I think we need to take action NOW and Bernie is up to the task.

[Jefferson23]

82. Obama, get on board with Bernie. n/t

[frylock]

84. shit just got real..

i love this man.

[OlympicBrian]

88. We need a NEW income tax schedule for the rich...that goes back to the OLD norm

The tax cuts for the rich are a big joke on America.

Federal taxes have fallen for the rich to the lowest rate in decades:

http://www.visualizingeconomics.com/2007/11/03/nytimes-historical-tax-rates-by-income-group/

Based on the following marginal federal income tax bracket schedule for an individual, and income demographics, can someone calculate a total revenue generated amount for 2010? Please use the 2010 marginal tax bracket schedule to calculate tax amounts up to the listed bracket cutoffs.

http://taxes.about.com/od/preparingyourtaxes/a/tax-rates_2.htm

These brackets and rates are "off-the-cuff"--so I truly don't know what to expect. I'm just curious to see what kind of revenue we would be talking about, given the following schedule:

$373,650+ income = 35 pct tax
$500,000+ income = 40 pct tax
$1,000,000+ income = 50 pct tax
$5,000,000+ income = 60 pct tax
$10,000,000+ income = 70 pct tax
$100,000,000+ income = 80 pct tax

In addition, treat most capital gains as ordinary income.

[liberalmike27]

99. Smartest Post All Day

Record wealth at the top not seen since just before the last depression (coincidence? I think not.), the debt built up year after year, as the direct result of the tax cuts under Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush. The richest people get the lowest taxes due to such a low capital gains tax rate, so yea, that should definitely be taxed as regular income. After all, they get to leave that money in year after year, allowing it to grow, and don't even have to pay it until they sell for a profit, a tax break in itself. They've been robbing the social security collected from everyone to help finance the wars and tax cuts, given mostly for the rich.

Does it take a genius to realize we need to take from those who've taken for the last 50 years?

Not only that, they've used the money to take even more power, unprecidented power, to further corrupt political processes, the Supreme Court, our whole government. They didn't create the jobs they said, at least not in America. As we've given them tax cuts, they did just the opposite,exported most of the good jobs middle Americans used to use to climb the ladder to a business in the future.

So yea, fuck this shit about cutting taxes, cutting grandma's social security, letting sick people die, and continued killing with our massive, world domination campaign. Take it back from those who stole it, through their own damn actions, the rich.

[defendandprotect]

89. kick

[OlympicBrian]

95. We need to tap the huge corporate profits, not cut taxes on them

Corporations have huge profit margins because they have moved operations to low-wage places like Brazil and China and India. Their profits and cash on hand are strongly on the upswing. They have been selling bonds like crazy (borrowing money). So no, they aren't hurting.

Corporations especially need to be taxed in high-growth, offshore locations--where revenues are the richest. Doing so would also encourage them to think twice about offshoring.

US tax revenues from individual income tax receipts are projected to be about 6.0 times those of corporate receipts for 2010. But corporations used to pay a much higher share of taxes--individual receipts were only 2.4 times those of corporate receipts in 1969.

That means corporations share of federal tax receipts went down by 250 percent between 1969 and 2010!

It seems the media has us fooled into thinking corporations need tax breaks. Another example of what makes the Fiscal Commission plan such trash--the proposal is to not only cut corporate taxes, but to "stop taxing overseas profits of US multinationals." (How does adding zero revenue help the deficit?)

The craziest part of all, is these huge windfalls for the ultra-rich and corporations are presented to the American public as a plan to reduce the deficit.

[Politicub]

97. K&R for a sane voice in Washington

[Waiting For Everyman]

98. Thank you, Sen. Sanders.

K&R

[mikeburetta]

101. what are we?

The problem of abandoning core values is that when voters confronted with the choice of a republican or a democrat acting and looking like one is the voter most offten picks the real rolex and not the fake one. Want to win elections? Then stand up for somthing. Like it or not at least the repubs stand. Wishing for some reps that had that much footsba on our side..

[Enthusiast]

103. There is no good reason to

adopt the recommendations of Simpson and Bowles. Their suggestions are nothing short of an attack on the elderly, poor, disabled and middle class. Bernie can produce a sound alternative. I'm all for it.

As far as I am concerned before they cut one dime of the social safety net every single American foreign military base should be closed and the active military cut in half. The health and welfare of the American people is as much 'security' as any far flung foreign military base.

[Cass]

111. Sen. Sanders constituents are so fortunate to have this man representing them.

K & R

[DailyGrind51]

112. 15 cents/gallon gas tax would just about have me working for $0!

How can those of us who need to drive to work afford the proposed 15 cents/per gallon gasoline tax, when we are barely earning enough to begin with? To add insult to injury, the deficit commission also recommends removing the deduction for health insurance premiums! Why don't they just come out and admit that they want the working poor and lower middle class to die?

[Le Taz Hot]

118. Finally! Something we can actually get behind

that will have VERY broad support. We HAVE to get strongly behind him on this when the time comes. It's imperative that his proposal get a hearing and a vote (THIS would be a good time for a Democrats to grow a pair).

[jonnyblitz]

119. GOOD. somebody needs to counter Obama's right wing bent.

it's getting fucking ridiculous.

[AllyCat]

121. Too bad we can't leave Feingold in to vote onthis one and Blance L out.

Why are all the cuts aimed at us? The people who are hurting are the ones that get hit because we can't or don't fight back.

[mdmc]

123. kr

[dotymed]

124. Senator Sanders

is a voice of reason in the cacophony of greed. (waxing poetic)
Seriously, I am, out of conscious, changing to "Socialist."
Even in America, capitalist heaven, a Socialistic turn would, of course, be the most Just path.
"They" want you to remember..."Life ain't Fair".....just to "them."
If a large percentage of our population would do this, it would be noticed.....

[robcon]

128. Huh? What's the point?

Does Sanders think his wing of the party represents anything but a small minority of U.S. voters.

For example, DUers overwhelmingly wanted to vote for Kucinich in 2008, although Dennis couldn't get 4% in the primaries. Does anyone think what Sanders (probably more fringe than Kucinich) wants has anything to do with what Democrats want?

[chill_wind]

134. This is a panel of The Money Party's paid outside interests

that the Republicans and DLC deficit hawks wanted (and got). Nancy Pelosi has signaled her reaction and 100 House Dems have already sent a message (letter to Pres Obama) that they will not sign off on slashes to Social Security.

Dear Mr. President,

We oppose any cuts to Social Security benefits, including raising the retirement age. We also oppose any effort to privatize Social Security, in whole or in part.

You have charged the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform with proposing recommendations that improve the long-term fiscal outlook and address the growth of entitlement spending. It is our view that Social Security--which is prohibited by law from adding to the national budget deficit--does not belong as part of those recommendations.

By 2023, Social Security will have built up a $4.3 trillion surplus, and, without any action, can pay at least 75 percent of all benefits thereafter. Because Social Security is funded separately from the general treasury and has no borrowing authority, it has not contributed to the federal deficit. Despite these facts, some Commission members have repeatedly alleged the need to cut Social Security for budgetary reasons.

For 75 years, Social Security has been a promise to the American people that if they work hard and pay their fair share, they will have a financially secure retirement. In communities across this country, Social Security benefits are often the only source of income helping families maintain a decent standard of living. Social Security's benefits are modest, averaging less than $13,000 a year, but they are vital to the vast majority of Americans who receive them.

Cutting Social Security benefits further than they are already being cut by raising the retirement age from 65 to 67 would create needless hardship for millions of vulnerable Americans. This is especially true in the face of an economic downturn that has wiped out trillions of dollars that Americans were relying on for their retirement security and the increased dismantlement of the private and public pension systems.

If any of the Commission's recommendations cut or diminish Social Security in any way, we will stand firmly against them.

Sincerely,

Your name

Raul Grijalva (D-AZ)
John Conyers (D-MI)
Dan Maffei (D-NY)
Mary Jo Kilroy (D-OH)
Chellie Pingree (D-ME)
Lynn Woolsey (D-CA)
Mazie Hirono (D-HI)
Marcy Kaptur (D-OH)
Larry Kissell (D-NC)
Bennie Thompson (D-MS)
Joseph Courtney (D-CT)
Donna Edwards (D-MD)
Bob Filner (D-CA)
Barbara Lee (D-CA)
Kendrick Meek (D-FL)
Richard Neal (D-MA)
Alan Grayson (D-FL)
Danny Davis (D-IL)
Marcia Fudge (D-OH)
Alcee Hastings (D-FL)
Maurice Hinchey (D-NY)
Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)
Laura Richardson (D-CA)
Carol Shea-Porter (D-NH)
Andre Carson (D-IN)
Yvette Clarke (D-NY)
Rosa DeLauro (D-CT)
Keith Ellison (D-MN)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
John Hall (D-NY)
Debbie Halvorson (D-IL)
Phil Hare (D-IL)
Martin Heinrich (D-NM)
Dale Kildee (D-MI)
Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
John Lewis (D-GA)
James Oberstar (D-MN)
John Olver (D-MA)
Nick Rahall (D-WV)
Steven Rothman (D-NJ)
Fortney Pete Stark (D-CA)
Michael Michaud (D-ME)
Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI)
Michael Arcuri (D-NY)
Jerry Costello (D-IL)
Mark Critz (D-PA)
John Dingell (D-MI)
George Miller (D-CA)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Mark Schauer (D-MI)
Betty Sutton (D-OH)
Paul Tonko (D-NY)
Edolphus Towns (D-NY)
William Delahunt (D-MA)
José Serrano (D-NY)
Sam Farr (D-CA)
Zach Space (D-OH)
Betty McCollum (D-MN)
Mike Doyle (D-PA)
Corrine Brown (D-FL)
Lois Capps (D-CA)
Michael Doyle (D-PA)
Luis Gutierrez (D-IL)
Steven Kagen (D-WI)
Edward Markey (D-MA)
Eleanor Norton (D-DC)
Bobby Rush (D-IL)
Albio Sires (D-NJ)
Louise Slaughter (D-NY)
David Wu (D-OR)
Joe Baca (D-CA)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-TX)
Jesse Jackson (D-IL)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Doris Matsui (D-CA)
Jim McDermott (D-WA)
Ed Pastor (D-AZ)
Ted Deutch (D-FL)
Elijah Cummings (D-MD)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)

http://act.boldprogressives.org/survey/ssletter_main

Collectively, they represent what they know is hardly "a small minority of U.S.Voters".


Bernie Sanders: Hands Off Social Security
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41628.html

So, no, sorry-- his rejection of proposals to cut SS among other things, or activating Congress to offer better or more progressive proposals is hardly a "fringe" notion.

[glitch]

161. Stellar post.

The people listed make up a lot of the reason I still follow politics.

edit: your post deserves its own thread.

[chill_wind]

168. Me too, glitch.

:hi:

[eilen]

172. If Obama is primaried I will switch to D and vote Kucinich.

The DLC has plain pissed me off since the 90's.

[ProudDad]

182. Unlike certain sycophants...

Some people actually base their judgments on quaint notions like what's right or true...

Or what's best for the vast majority of the People who have been royally screwed by BOTH right-wings of the Corporate War Party over the last 35 years...

Not just on "what will win" in a corrupt system...

So, what's your point?

Are you posting just to demonstrate a capability to be obtuse?

[The Uncola]

129. Go Bernie!

Sad that the very best Democrat voice in the Senate, isn't actually even a Democrat. Where the fuck are the ACTUAL Democrat Senate voices fighting for US? Fucking spineless assholes.

[judesedit]

130. Thank you, Bernie, for speaking out for the 98% of us the republicans could care less about

I blame all progressives, liberals, democrats and reasonably sane people that did not care enough or take the little bit of time it took to vote in this last very important election. Instead, the House went to any buyers...corporate, personal and FOREIGN! You non-voters should be ashamed of yourselves. I'll bet you have plenty of opinions though, don't you????? Thank you again, Bernie, for caring.

[geckosfeet]

132. Go to do it. Anything that comes out of this would be better than the throw shit at the wall

and see what sticks bullshit that the 'bi-fartisan' fiscal/deficit commission came up with.

[somone]

133. There ya go

[Lydia Leftcoast]

141. I bet they'll come up with the kinds of proposals that the Democrats SHOULD HAVE come up with

You know, ones that didn't have outrageous provisions like cutting taxes for the wealthy (AGAIN?) or raising the age of eligibility for full Social Security to 69 but did mention LITTLE things like ending the wars ($250 million a day each) and corporate welfare.

[Mosaic]

143. This is the time

For all of the left to unite, plan, and do the deep thinking necessary for progress. Bernie Sanders and David Brock of Media Matters are two who are on the right track.

[gibby2433]

151. I'm seriously tempted to write-in Bernie for Prez in 2012

Because I know he won't run. But I'm sure everyone will tell me it's basically a vote for the Republican candidate. At this point, I almost don't care.

[4_TN_TITANS]

152. Bernie Rocks....

I'd do anything to have a Senator like him. Since my company recently blocked internet radio, I miss hearing him with Thom on AM1090 out of Seattle (yes, we have to go all the way to Seattle to hear progressive talk in Tennessee).

And, as much as he fights Republicans, I believe Bernie would be the first to take the Dems to the woodshed if they needed it. A National Treasure.

[sabrina 1]

154. This is what should have happened in the first place!! A CONGRESSIONAL

Committee, led by Democrats. This is Congress' business, the people's business and all discussion about it should have been PUBLIC, not by a bevy of Billionaires behind closed doors whose only contact with ordinary people are those they employ to keep their homes clean and who in a million years they would never sit down to talk to, let alone associate with socially. They represent the wealthy, and shame on this Democratic president for wasting money and time on them.

[gibby2433]

158. You pretty much nailed it, sabrina

"They represent the wealthy...,"

And they always have, always will. There is no fight from "the common man" anymore. Even the media is controlled by the wealthy; everything is controlled by the wealthy. And they spoon-feed us issues to care about, and tell us what's in our best interests. So we will hoot and holler about this committee's recommendations, they'll pretend to care and throw us a bone or two, then do exactly what they want and the media will coddle us into believing it's for the best while rocking us gently back to sleep.

Wow, too depressing; I just depressed myself.

[donco6]

169. Plus a whole bunch. N/t

[Shining Jack]

171. +1

:thumbsup:

[orbitalman]

155. Finally, we're "starting" to go ArounD Obama !!!! n/t

[Maineman]

159. I am with Bernie !

We can do something for the people and the nation, not for big business and more corruption.

[OlympicBrian]

176. The system is trying to protect itself...

This self-protection has become profound--recently, a US "Debt Commission Report" draft plan has been announced. While it does seek to cut some waste, this is "political bait" to reel in unwary Americans. It proposes cutbacks on social welfare programs, but it leans heavily upon on the backs of the middle-class, cutting back on popular tax deductions such as the mortgage interest deduction, and increasing the tax on gasoline. Instead of simply increasing the income ceiling on Social Security taxation to shore up the system--which is largely solvent anyway--it proposes Social Security cutbacks. It also proposes major cuts in government and military spending that will lead to slower growth, particularly since the US has such a high component of military spending; this will not help the economy--it will lower GDP, and lead to higher unemployment.

The corporatocracy makes its influence clear in the plan; it soaks the middle class, but is a windfall for the ultra-rich. While claiming to be a plan to balance the budget, it is nothing of the sort--and the provisions of the plan provide all the clues. The plan actually reduces taxes on the rich and ultra-rich--instead of obvious and painless revenue-generating measures which would help balance the budget. Specifically, the plan does not include reasonable and fair revenue-generating measures, such as increasing the number of upper-end marginal federal income tax brackets, to reflect an ever-widening US income disparity (a measure which would have no negative side effects.) Astoundingly, the plan does not include a financial transactions tax. Such a tax would not only zero-in on the richest stock market gamblers--but it would also help to discourage stock market meltdowns. Stock market meltdowns are costly and devastating! Why is a helpful transactions tax missing from the plan?

Incredibly, besides proposing yet another large corporate tax cut (corporate taxes have already been cut by 11 percent over the last 25 years), the plan also includes a provision to "stop taxing overseas profits of US multinationals," thereby encouraging corporations to focus efforts and capital offshore vs. doing the same in the US--this can only hurt US jobs. Yes, you read that right--zero taxes for overseas corporate profits. Taxing profits at a rate of zero percent amounts to pretending a huge tax revenue source doesn't exist--sending the ultra-rich yet another lavish windfall (all of this, while you lose your mortgage interest deduction, and Social Security.) Americans should be outraged--these provisions represent a re-distribution of wealth from Mom and Pop to the ultra-rich and corporate multinationals. A progressive capital gains taxation schedule is also not in the plan. Clearly, there is an underlying bias in the plan--towards further enriching the ultra-rich. Remarkably, this bias at the expense of achieving a balanced budget--obviously, the plan is at utter odds with what is claims to be.

Much more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9554944

[OlympicBrian]

181. kixk this comment

:)

[OlympicBrian]

183. OMG it's only 5 pct of savings from increased revenue!

"The report also does little to increase tax revenue, with only about 5% of the savings coming from increased general revenue (4.8% in 2015 and 6.4% over 10 years)."

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/deficit_commission_leaders_are_not_addressing_the_root_causes_of_the_l/

This leaves a huge untapped wealthy tax base, while we average folks lose our mortgage tax deduction and Social Security. More for the rich!