Housewife Who Killed Sons With Rocks Believed She Was Following God's Order

[NNN0LHI]

Ah, them Christians. The religion of peace.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAPICTKLSD.html

TYLER, Texas (AP) - A homemaker who said she was ordered by God to kill her children felt compelled to obey because she believed God would never direct her to do wrong, mental health experts said.

"I don't think she had any choice," psychiatrist William Reid testified.

Attorneys for the defense and the state rested their cases Friday in the trial Deanna Laney. The 39-year-old has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity to a charge of capital murder in the deaths of 8-year-old Joshua and 6-year-old Luke, and serious injury to a child for the beating of Aaron, now 2.

Laney said she smashed her sons' skulls with rocks after getting a sign from God that he wanted her to kill them.

more

[WoodrowFan]

1. not Christians

It's not just Christians, it's TRUE BELIEVERS. The belief itself is immaterial. And in this case she seems to have been mentally ill. If she had been Muslim the voice would have been "Allah," If she had been into UFOs the voice would have been "aliens."

[libbygurl]

3. Very true. Sounds more like mental illness more than

a particular belief -- paranoid schizophrenia, to be precise.

[muchacho]

8. What's the diff

mental illness, belief in the supernatural- the difference?

[RandomKoolzip]

17. Are the superstitious mentally ill?

Where DO we draw the line?

[Occulus]

22. We draw the line

when they start killing people because of their 'superstitions.'

[Nlighten1]

27. Well...

What exactly do you call someone who believes in invisible father figures?

[muchacho]

54. Well...

How about this, the line is drawn when religious people are compelled to cram thier nonsense down my throat, kill people in the name of their particular deity or want to run the country in the name of same deity.

[robbedvoter]

2. Aren't you glad God didn't tell her to invade Iraq?

The only difference - she wasn't born in a dynastic family!

[atreides1]

4. Has Anyone Noticed

That it's only in the Old Testament that God strikes people, or places them in situations to test their faith in him.

From asking Abraham to kill his son, to taking everything away from Job, just because he wanted to settle a bet with Lucifer.

Yet in the New Testament, the worst thing that Jesus does is get
angry with the merchants that are selling in the temple, and tosses
their tables over.

[ikojo]

7. If it's only in the "old testament" (what Jews call the Tanakh)

that God strikes people, why is it that many of these family murders happen among fundy CHRISTIANS?

[AGD4y2357y]

12. Uhhhh

I see you conveniently missed gods killing sprees/rape sprees/etc in the new testament. It would make hitler blush.

[TrogL]

19. Name one

[RandomKoolzip]

21. Destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. The Great flood.

Turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt. Demanding Abraham kill his son, etc.

I'm an atheist and I know this stuff.

[BiggJawn]

31. Not very well, you don't.

All those events you mentioned happened in the OLD Testament.
I'm an Atheist too, but I READ the stuff before I decided it was hooey.

[AGD4y2357y]

39. Sure

5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


15:4
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.


25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

5:12
And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

5:13
And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.


3:17
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

3:23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

1:31
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

(in other words, kill homosexual/bisexual people)

3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

(nothing like good old fashioned mass murder)

3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

(hey, another mass murder!)

6:11
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

9:15
And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

9:16
And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

9:18
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

9:19
For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

11:13
And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.



Ok, so I think I named one. Do I get a prize?

Oh, I should also note that it is YOUR belief only the new testament applies. There are plenty of christian sects who believe it is only the old testament (or both) that apply.

[NickB79]

61. These are mainly from the Book of Revelations

Which speaks of future acts God is supposed to commit, not acts He did carry out in the Old Testament. You were asked to name a point in the NT where God DID carry out acts similar to the ones in the OT. Since these acts have not yet come to pass, how can you compare them?

[Occulus]

23. I've a sneaking suspicion

that Jesus did signifigantly more than just toss their tables over. I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck (were there a way to verify this) that Jesus was also cursing a blue strak and probably also in tears at the time.

Hey, were I Him, I wouldn't take such a thing lightly or respond nicely.

[AlecBGreen]

38. yeah

I think in the Book of John (the most "mystical" gospel author) he had a whip of knotted cords...that will clear a room out FAST!

[rocktivity]

57. Very what, Kgfnally?

The bet or your next paycheck?

;)
rocknation

[rfranklin]

5. Lucky for her they weren't fetuses...

Then she'd really be in trouble!

[KittyWampus]

6. This Is Mental Illness & Has Nothing To Do With Any Religion

It is very counterproductive for the Left to confuse the two.

[rfkrocks]

9. Right on

what we should ask why is mental illness treatment frowned upon by the right? One wonders did she have benefits? Was going to adoctor considered just part of the "liberal establishment"? She couldn't pull herself up by her own bootstraps etc. I can imagine what it must be like to fall apart and have nowhere to go-

[Eye and Monkey]

64. Perhaps she went to her minister. Perhaps he told her to listen to God.

[muchacho]

11. appropriate

>>It is very counterproductive for the Left to confuse the two.

I don't see it as confusion. I think it's an appropriate observation (by the Left, Right, Top, whatever) to believe that people that apply ancient texts written by some supernatural entity to their life and view of the world might be a suffering from some mental defect.

[papau]

15. Gee - and those that deny the creation question do not seem all that

sane, either -

but that is just my opinion.

peace

:-)

[LoZoccolo]

66. Same could be said of all leftists...

...who think they need to change the world, this is a mental defect - the natural outcome is putting ten million people in the ground like Stalin or Mao to try to get that accomplished.

(I don't agree with this notion, of course, but it's the same sort of generalization I've seen here several times in nuance-impaired arguments.)

[NNN0LHI]

14. Did the 9/11 hijackers suffer from mental illness too? n/t

[realdeal22k]

25. Yes

Killing outside of self-defense is wrong period.

[leesa]

28. I'm so glad to find someone else opposed to the slaughter in Afghanistan

most seem to think it's A-OK in some bizarre twisting of logic.

[NNN0LHI]

33. Then why have a war on terror? A war on insanity would make more sense

We can't win a war on terror or on insanity, but at least we would be fighting the right enemy.

Don

[Eye and Monkey]

68. Why don't we just ditch the whole "war" metaphor?

And war, as well, why we're at it?

Hey, wishful thinking, I know.

[muchacho]

53. yes

suicide of any sort is a mental illness.

[PassingFair]

62. I have known cases

where suicide is the sanest course. If you had ever had a loved one suffering, you would never say such an ignorant thing.

[calimary]

44. If we REALLY wanted to fight dirty, it MIGHT be usable...

Remember Susan Smith? The lady who drove her two little boys into the drink, and at first blamed some African-American carjacker?

Does anyone remember what Newt Gingrich said about this, after her story was blown?

Does anyone remember how he got up on his soap box and said (paraphrasing) how this is what happens when you vote for Democrats?

I mean, to me, TRYING for a moment to stand aside from my roaring partisanship, I'm a lifelong Catholic. I went to Catholic school from K through 12. We did a LOT of Bible study, scriptural analysis, comparative religions, catechism, church history, LOADS of religious-related stuff. In an attempt to use that filter, alone, my gut would respond that - "JEEZ. This is what happens when you go overboard with the extreme fundamentalism crap." I tend to react that way, politics aside, when I hear anything of this sort. When I hear about the "creation science" BS being shoved down our kids' throats by some agenda-driven "teachers" and school boards, and when bush himself spews such baloney as "the jury's still out" on evolution. I mean, PUH-LEEEEEEEEZE! I went to wall-to-wall Catholic school, taught by nuns and Jesuits and Jesuit drop-outs, whose agenda was certainly anything but to drive students away from God, and I can still come to some truly secular, objective conclusions.

THIS IS WHAT YOU GET when you bet the farm on fundamentalism. And, certainly, the extremist Islamic fringe is sufficient evidence to support this. Different religion. Same basic whacko-ism. I'd sure like to see that message get out, overtly OR covertly.

[DBoon]

46. True Fundys don't believe in mental illness

as something that is treatable by psychotherapy or drugs - you have demons that have to be cast out. You need to get on your knees and pray to Jesus to deliver you from the demons.

A truly mentally ill person would never receive treatment in that sort of culture.

[Eye and Monkey]

67. With BushCo'sFaith-based Initiative, religion is a "treatment option"

[Branjor]

10. I think fundie religious beliefs....

In which women have to stay at home with the children, submit to husbands, not have careers, etc., etc. drive many a woman of brains and competence crazy.

[PfcHammer]

13. Texas seems to be the epicenter

for strange, violent, antisocial behavior

[calimary]

47. Interesting, isn't it? Welcome to DU. I certainly can think of one

"alleged" Texan who fits that.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

16. Schools should teach about the many human sources of the Bible.

Then people wouldn't take it literally and get crazy.

The Bible comes from human sources in historical contexts over hundreds of years.

If this was taught to children in public schools, the spirituality of the poetry and allegory and symbolism might be learned and the world would be a more loving place.

Jesus Christ's teachings of peaceful coexistence are actually EVOLUTIONARY.

That is, they represent the evolution of the species progressively away from the 'law of the jungle' cruelty of 'might makes right' to the next step in our biological/social development to cooperation and nurturance and the strength in numbers of the larger Human Family.

That's why he was threatening to the power structure and was killed.

Now the power structure of the Dominionist neocons wants to prevent our evolution by reinforcing the old fear/hate/war dynamic of our distant past.

[RandomKoolzip]

20. That is, if "he" ever existed in the first place.

[rawtribe]

32. Dumb All Over

God knows what he's doin'
He wrote this book here
An' the book says:
*He made us all to be just like Him,"
so...
If we're dumb...
Then God is dumb...
*(An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)*

Frank Zappa


http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/lyrics/dumb_all.htm

[Roaming]

43. Yes, the Bible comes from human sources but the overwhelming

evidence is that the Bible is divine, not human in origin. Keep in mind that dozens of men separated by hundreds, even thousands of years (and in many cases large distances apart), all wrote in agreement with each other. Not only that, but the text accurately predicts hundreds of future events that no human being could have 'guessed.'

[calimary]

49. Yes, but that Word still passed through human filters,

with human agendas, varying levels of human literacy, human foibles, and multiple, sometimes conflicting human translations.

[dawn]

52. Divinely inspired perhaps...

but written by humans. Writers, no less. :)

[demigoddess]

55. if you believe that you should read

all the parts they cut out. Biblical scholars will tell you that the writings that became the bible became part of the bible because they were popular with the people of the time. So, what is in the bible is there because of PUBLIC OPINION. Does not sound like divine inspiration to me.
signed a skeptic

[Roaming]

59. Popularity had nothing to do with what went into Scripture. Many

prophets were killed by their own people because they gave unpopular predictions of the future (which of course later came true). It's amazing when you look at the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts and compare them to the modern versions--there is very little departure from the original, and the differences do not affect the core message of any.

Hebrew scribes had to spend years and years learning their craft. They reproduced the scrolls painstakingly and had at least three others literally count everything they had copied, letter by letter, to ensure it was accurate.

The 'final exam' for a scribe would be for the teacher to insert a pin into the scroll, and the student would have to identify each and every word that pin pierced (that's how well they had to memorize it).

It's really amazing.

[Eye and Monkey]

69. You've come up with some doozies tonight. This beats 'em.

[SayitAintSo]

18. Aren't we grateful for 'separation of church and state ' ?

Think of the fun when the 'fundies' engage in one of their 'mass delustions' .... Oh, I forgot ... we are there ... GWB as POTUS ... at any cost .....

[rocktivity]

24. Oh, the irony.

Laney, who home-schooled her children in the tiny town of New Chapel Hill...was convinced she was divinely chosen by God to kill her children last Mother's Day weekend...
Maybe what she actually had was a really bad case of cabin fever. Maybe realizing that it was Mother's Day is what made her snap.

Her first call, prosecutors pointed out, was to 911 to summon authorities.
Why would an insane person call the cops? She must have been conscious that something "wrong," if not unlawful, had occured. Andrea Yates, the Texan who drowned her five kids, called the cops AND her husband afterwards.

And why do we consider insane that God would talk to anyone? Why is talking to God considered praying, but God talking you insanity?

:headbang:
rocknation

[captain jack]

26. Was this wrong really?

In the eyes of the current administration this is not a crime. As we will see by this rewrite this kind of behavior is good policy as well as good christian ethics.


BUSHY,Texas (TP)- The Resident who said he was ordered by god to kill Iraqis felt compelled to obey because he believed god would never direct him to do something wrong, mental health patients said.

"I don't think he had any choice" Psychotic Ronald Dumbsfeld testified.

Tax paid Attorneys for the defense rested their cases Friday in the trial of Resident Morphus Chimpy. The codger has of course pleaded not guilty by reason of patriotic insanity to a charge of "capitalistic-right-putting" in the deaths of thousands of Iraqi and american citizens/freedom fighters, and serious injuries to any who opposed being occupied, now going on 2 years.

Morphus Chimpy said he smashed the rights of all thse people with "proper oppression" after recieving in the mail from god a note that read, "you should do this, It would be totally cool by me".
MORE...?

[Skittles]

29. they have this wretched woman on trial

like Andrea Yates, what is the point?

[Aidoneus]

30. Texas once again..

Perhaps the churches down there should be monitored. They seem to be breeding terrorists like rabbits.

[BiggJawn]

34. WHY does "God" always tell them to kill their kids???

Why couldn't have God told her to go blow every man in town, or plant pansies in every yard, or fill the town square with dafodils?

But NOOOOOOOOOOOO....."GAWD" wants BLOOD....Young, HOT, innocent BLOOD!

What a sicko. Glad I don't believe in Him/Her/IT....

[captain jack]

36. It funny and it's true

That's hilarious.
Today I'm gonna give my wife the bad news. God has said to me that, you "must blow me for the next forty days and forty nights". You can't argue with god honey, besides he would never want you to do something that was wrong. After that you can plant your flowers.

[PurityOfEssence]

45. Careful, though...

If she gets the wrong idea in the process, she might think that your wanting to get slurped so much means that you're actually a pansy, and then you'd be the first to get planted.

[calimary]

50. But what if God told her never to venture down such avenues of

fleeting carnal pleasures?

We have a pResident manipulating God for his own purposes, for Pete's sake.

Anybody who tells ME "God told me to do this," or "God anointed me to do that," I'm just gonna respond - "well, God told ME to tell YOU to go stuff it."

[NNN0LHI]

37. Because a little kid can't fight back maybe? n/t

[louinc]

40. "Blow every man in town" ????

Many mentally ill people have religious delusions. Doesn't mean that God is telling them to hurt themselves or hurt other people, it's just the nature of the disease. So first we should distance religion from mental illness if we are to discuss the issue in an intelligent manner.

Domestic violence is usually just that domestic. For what ever reason violence against another person is done by a family member or someone they know. Father beats wife, wife beats kids, kids kill parents, uncle rapes nephew or niece, on and on. Then of course there's date rape. It's rare that an act of violence is committed against a totally unknown person but obviously does happen.

I'm sure this woman has a history of mental illness, can't lock them all up, so they stop taking their meds and the voices come back. Most times they are not acted upon obviously this time it was. Perhaps as a society we should look at how to help these people. Mandatory medication compliance, long term birth control alternatives, taking children away from mentally ill people. Most of these options can't be enforced as we do live in American, so from time to time, the kids or some other innocent person gets the short end of the stick.

louinc

[monobrau]

42. Anti-human

This type of redneck christian zealot hates humanity. This is why the "Left Behind" series is so popular. It's not enough to savor the rapture; no, these cretins live out their days fantasizing about the suffering and destruction that their neighbors will have visited upon them by a petty, vengeful god. It's no coincidence that they are typically petty, vengeful people. I realize that at some point mental illness comes into play in this case, but it is mental illness fueled by a hateful, anti-human ideology.

[DBoon]

48. Even the insane absorb the culture they are a part of

If this woman had been part of a peaceful forgiving religion that did not constantly talk of the brutal punishment of the wicked, her psychosis would likely have taken a more benevolent path.

[northernsoul]

51. you don't hear about too many Buddhists doing this

Maybe I've missed it, but can't recall the last time I heard about a devout Buddhist slaughtering their own children because they thought that Shakyamuni Buddha told them to.

[LoZoccolo]

63. Uh...

...because it takes a story like that to make the national news?

[barbaraann]

35. If you Google for "deific decree" you can find a lot of info

about legal philosophy regarding god-ordered crimes.

[PurityOfEssence]

41. This isn't a peripheral by-product of religion, it comes from its heart

Regardless of how believers try to distance themselves with the comfy standard disconnect that bad things done in the name of god are weird aberrations and sickness, while the good stuff is the true evocation of the faith, the fact is undeniable: these belief systems promote, foster and shield things like this. Once you tell people that there's a magic supernatural world out there, holding them to objective reality is not only impossible, it's bad. Those who hear the voices of god often think of themselves as "better" or "special", and since far too much personal energy in Islam and Christianity are taken up with the selfish pursuit of making sure that one is personally assured the big, permananent vacation in joyland, it's all an expectable outcome.

She's going to get break after break from the system, and the dangers of religion itself will be conveniently swept under the carpet of delusion. Thus, this will happen again and again, as it has been of late.

Hearing voices that ask for killing is a core issue with supernatural belief. Not believing in the sanctity of life because of some blamelessness that the "afterlife" brings is a huge danger to society at large and should be treated as such.

Religion isn't all mental illness; it's comforting and the impetus fomes from many sources. This kind of belief IS a form of mental illness though, and like alcoholism, only gets extreme in a relatively small percentage of the users; the problem is that a small percentage of 2 Billion (approximate Christians) is still a hell of a lot of dead children.

Once again, far too few believers want to take responsibility for their actions. Sadly, with belief in a superior being that tells you what to do and rewards compliance, taking responsibility for one's actions just isn't much of an issue. It's the perfect fit.

[PassingFair]

65. Hear, hear!

Excellent post. But be warned, everytime I post something like this there grows a string of deleted messages. I believe that the actions of these mother's churches should be delved into. If they were receiving counseling by the pastor/priest/congregation, and if their delusions were given any back-up, the church/church members should be held liable as aiding and abetting. For shame!

[ck4829]

56. There is way too much hypocricy in certain Christians today

We have zealots like Robertson and Falwell talking about how Islam is not a religion of peace. And then something like this happens and they are silent, it's just so irritating and offensive of how they can regard human life as just something that has value as long as only Christians are the victims and non-Christians are the perpetrators. Stuff like this happens on a weekly basis, for example in Nigeria about a week ago, 20 Muslims died at the hands of Christians because of violence that happened because strange things always happen when it's voting time. Where was the Anti-Islam crew when that happened? They were completely silent. I don't believe Christianity is any more or less violent than Islam is but we need to make some changes. The first change would be to make religion a force of benevolence instead of a force of fear and "You aren't going to Heaven, so convert now!" and the destruction and killing have to stop right now. The second change would be to send Robertson, Falwell, and all their friends back to the 13th century where they belong.

[rocktivity]

58. If she believed that God would never tell her to do anything wrong

That means that she understands what "wrong" is--bye bye, insanity defense!

:headbang:
rocknation

[leesa]

60. Of course the insanity defense is thoroughly villified by the GOP

conservatives....I guess unless it's insanity granted by God. I wonder how you know who He picks and chooses. For instance, Bush is insane