Natural History Museum expedition could be "disaster" for indigenous people

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Telegraph

Natural History Museum expedition could be "disaster" for indigenous people
The Natural History Museum has been warned that a forthcoming trip to find hundreds of new species in the remote forests of Paraguay could risk the lives of indigenous people and the scientists.

By Louise Gray, Environment Correspondent
Published: 7:41PM GMT 08 Nov 2010

The 100-strong expedition, one of the largest undertaken by the museum in the last 50 years, is due to set off in the next few days to explore one of the most unknown regions of the world for one month.

However the museum has been warned by campaigners that the trip could cause “genocide” for isolated tribes.

The group Iniciativa Amotocodie, that protects local indigenous people, said groups of Ayoreo Indians in the area have never come into contact with westerners before. If they come across the expedition without preparation they could catch common western viruses that could wipe out the small groups in a matter of weeks.

A statement from the group, that has been circulated online, read: “If this expedition goes ahead we will not be able to understand why you prefer to lose human lives just because the English scientists want to study plants and animals. There is too much risk: the people die in the forest frequently from catching white people’s diseases – they get infected by being close. Because the white people leave their rubbish, their clothes, or other contaminated things. It’s very serious. It’s like genocide.”

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/8118427/Natural-History-Museum-expedition-could-be-disaster-for-indigenous-people.html

[Ian David]

1. They should just use GoToMeeting.com. Use promo code Stephanie.

Seriously, though...

Is this trip really necessary?

[HereSince1628]

2. Well, more necessary than bombing Iran.

I suppose one argument would be that if you want a genetic record of the things that global warming is killing off, then you've got to go and get the genetic material.

Transmitting diseases to immunologically naive people is dangerous.

[Ginto]

3. Don't we need to still explore?

Are we just going to stop exploring because of the damage that we might do? For all we know, the cure for cancer lies in a common plant in that region.

[Ian David]

5. All we have to do is kill them with the flu to get it? n/t

[Ginto]

7. So that is a certainty?

We may kill all deep sea life by carrying protozoan that deep on the surface of our probes. Or kill life on other planets by sending our space probes. Should we stop all exploration immediately?

[Ian David]

8. Well, no. But we're not talking about killing people. n/t

[pitohui]

31. visit a south american forest & you find out fast there's something wrong w. this story

they're going to have to provide some evidence that a country like paraguay w. a large population already of european descent is somehow in danger when a country like boliva w. a large population of indigenous seems to have no worries...

this is one of those stories that may sound good in england but when you're down on the ground, then you suddenly realize how goofy it is...it's some sort of disinformation

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. The story makes sense; the expedition is because western scientists have neve been there

and thus a survey of animals and plants will produce new science. And so a few existing bands of indigenous people who haven't been contacted by non-indigenous people makes sense.

[antigone382]

15. Umm...deep sea life isn't a person.

I understand the value of exploration, but you're being a little cavalier about a group of people traipsing into some other people's home and potentially exposing them to deadly diseases. These are human beings. If the scientists absolutely cannot find a way to avoid coming into contact with these people (like maybe finding more local people to do the research, whose pathogens they are more likely to have encountered), they need to be extremely careful.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[RaleighNCDUer]

4. There are ways to mitigate the risks to the indiginous people -

there is no way to preserve the DNA of a species which has gone extinct before you ever heard of it.

The expedition can be scrupulous in not leaving contaminants behind them, and can warn the locals to keep their distance for their own sakes.

[Ian David]

6. That sucks. Nobody will get laid that way. n/t

[captain jack]

9. Thanks for the post JL. I almost cared about what happens to this country. nt

[dipsydoodle]

10. If any of the indigenous population suffer as a result

then I hope the expedition catch something really nasty themselves - AIDS on steroids whatever. Teach the selfish bastards a lesson.

[AlbertCat]

17. Teach the selfish bastards a lesson.

How do you know they are selfish? And bastards?


And genocide in the other direction (if they bring your AIDS on steroids back into our population) is OK then?

[dipsydoodle]

22. Cause and effect

Remove the cause and there can then be no adverse outcome for either the indigineous population of the expeditionary members. They are selfish by virtue of risking the health of the population there.

[Gamey]

11. Get the indigenous to do the work for them?

Most likely easier said than done. No doubt the native peoples know their lands, flora and fauna, but they probably make horrible scientists. I don't know, some kind of basic training, remotely, done through this other group Iniciativa Amotocodie. Respecting all sides of this story is obviously a tough situation. I don't agree with some that it is a quandary of saving the planet at the expense of some "insignificant" tribes.

[bluedigger]

12. I don't see any perfect solution to this dilemma.

On the one hand, we risk contaminating and destroying some of the last remaining "primitive" humans on the planet. But if we leave them isolated, it is just a matter of time before loggers or others with vested interests in exploiting their habitat do the same. We might be able to keep them quarantined for a little while, but not forever. Given that inevitable (IMO) conclusion, I think we should allow for scientific exploration of the area. Who knows, maybe we will find a cure for AIDS, and save millions. It is impossible to foresee every possible consequence, but we do have sufficient knowledge to mitigate most worst-possible scenarios, and the concerns of the locals, et al. will help in that regard. I'll be hoping things go well, I guess. :shrug:

[KoKo]

13. Isn't Paraquay where the Bush Family has Thousands of Acres they purchased

recently?

[glinda]

14. Yes. And others also I think. Military?

[bluedigger]

16. What are you implying?

That the Natural History Museum is a front organization doing the evil bidding of the Carlyle Group?:shrug:

I'm not dismissing the idea out of hand, but I'm going to need to see a connection. (Other than Paraguay.) :tinfoilhat:

[w4rma]

20. Maybe the Bush family don't want the scientists snooping around?

I think it's interesting the the Torygraph is campaigning against this expedition.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. It's not campaigning, just reporting; and The Guardian ran the story a few hours earlier

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/08/natural-history-museum-paraguay-tribes

Leave the Bush family out of this. They do not control Survival International or the Ayoreo Indians. Sometimes, the world does not revolve around Americans.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Thanks for posting the Guardian link. From that article:

~snip~
But the two sites where the British and Paraguayan teams of botanists, biologists and other scientists plan to stay in for up to a month are known to be home to groups of Ayoreo Indians. They live in voluntary isolation and reject and avoid all contact with Westerners, said Benno Glauser, director of leading indigenous peoples' protection group Iniciativa Amotocodie.

Glauser, with the backing of Ayoreo leaders who have left the forest in the last 20 years, has sent the museum more than 40 pieces of data showing the presence of isolated peoples in the Chovoreca and Cabrera Timane regions.

"According to our data, the expedition you plan constitutes beyond any doubt an extremely high risk for the integrity, safety and legal rights of life and self-determination of the isolated Ayoreo, as well as for the integrity and stability of their territories. There exists a considerable menace and risk also for the safety of the scientists taking part of the expedition, as well as the rest of expedition participants," says Glauser in a letter to the museum.

Until about 1950 it is estimated that around 5,000 Ayoreo lived in the Chaco forest as isolated hunter-gatherers without contact with the ranchers and religious groups who were given land by the Paraguayan government. Since then almost all have left the forest after being targeted by American missionaries. It is estimated that there are now only six or seven isolated groups numbering around 150 people in total. It is now the only place in South America outside the Amazon where uncontacted Indians still live.

What a shame. I hope they will rethink this.

[dipsydoodle]

25. Chances are one of the big drug companies is funding this.

The drug companies are great ones for finding hitherto unknown plant species in and around the Amazon which possess medicinal properties they can patent. As I said elsewhere - if they do harm any of the indigenous population I hope they bring back something even more nasty with them.

[pitohui]

30. no it's quite obvious this is just a bullshit excuse to keep the scientists from seeing something

paraguay is not some little known country with a scanty european population, in fact, it has a much higher population of europeans than bolivia, where the large indigenous population manages to have scientists visit and NOT drop dead, i have traveled there (bolivia) myself and met w. a number of scientists in the natural history field (most entomologists and ornithologists)

it was the height of bird/swine flu hysteria but no one was dropping dead or even sniffling -- the idea that modern native populations are going to drop dead of "european" diseases was not even considered, they just wanted to make sure i'd had yellow fever vaccine and wouldn't be spreading yellow fever about...they knew i would be in the forest, as to enter bolivia americans practically have to undergo a rectal exam, i had to tell everywhere i would be going and for what purpose (range information of some bird species)

this is a cover story for some bullshit, the "european" viruses have been in south america for quite a few hundred years now, it's a global planet...

[XemaSab]

18. I'm on the side of the scientists

If there are 150 uncontacted people out there, they clearly have ways of avoiding the outside world.

OTOH, discovering new species is a terrific opportunity.

[The2ndWheel]

28. "they clearly have ways of avoiding the outside world"

So do the other species. But we can't have that. We have to force ourselves into the situation.

[w4rma]

19. It's as if some people don't want any solution. They can drastically lower the likelyhood of

transmitting any diseases. They don't need to call the expedition off, entirely.

[boppers]

21. Ah, racism.

"white people’s diseases".... didn't take long for that mask to slip.

[Judi Lynn]

27. So you believe there's no foundation in history for this perception? Really? Do some reading. n/t

[boppers]

36. Brown people's diseases could infect the explorers!

Leading to the death of all white people!

Oh noes! (It makes as much sense)

It's racist because it classifies humans in a completely unscientific, racist, way.

[Rage for Order]

35. I know, right? I've heard this line of argument before

Except it usually comes from the ranks of the minutemen who patrol the AZ border with Mexico. "There's no telling what kind of diseases those dirty Mexicans are bringing across our border!" Apparently it's racism in that context, but concerns about indigenous peoples contracting "white man's diseases" are completely valid and not in the least bit bigoted.

:eyes:

[xchrom]

26. Until the expedition can guarantee the

Safety of the people living there they should not go.

That forest are tthose peoples homes and work place.

[pitohui]

29. in paraguay? give me a break, make it a LITTLE believable

i don't know the real reason they don't want the scientists in their country but i'm gonna guess it has fuck all to do with viruses and a lot to do with the cocaine industry

[Judi Lynn]

32. You could benefit with a little research on this subject. Paraguay doesn't have a problem

with cocaine production or distribution.

Look a little closer to Colombia.