Mercenaries flock to fill vacuum

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/01/1080544627082.html

Private security operators now make up the third largest armed force in Iraq, Paul McGeough writes from Baghdad.

When the doors open at Level 5 of the Palestine Hotel, there's a spit-and-polished Gurkha pointing a high-powered gun into the lift.

The whole floor and another above it have been taken by Kellogg Brown & Root, the construction wing of Halliburton, one of the biggest US firms working in Iraq. And though the linguists of occupation don't allow the word "mercenary", the Gurkha is part of a 15,000-strong private security operation that is the third biggest armed force in Iraq.

Their numbers - and salaries as high as $US1000 ($A1300) a day - attest to the danger of this Arab version of Dodge City.

more

[saigon68]

1. Dangerous undertakings

And this one even worse I can't post it Caution

http://www.iraqwar.ru/show_image.php?id=1131&thumb=1

[seventhson]

3. Was that second image Fallujah as well???

nt

[saigon68]

5. Mosul 3 days ago

The US press has no cajones to show shit like that

[Rex]

10. They can't show those kinds of images.

Why, showing images like those would mean that consumers might become revolted by the sight of war! Can't have that now can we? Heaven FORBID Americans, slumbering in the lazy-boy see images of HELL ON EARTH. Nope, let's just keep them sedated with 'reality shows'.

Hey I know, let's make a new 'reality show' cept this time it will truly be real. We can call it "Why did I have to die?" and it can star all the dead people who don't get to ask that question because someone blew their heads off or bombed their families into billions of small chunks. :(

[Aidoneus]

24. no, that was actually from al-Basrah

That's a British occupation soldier.

[leftchick]

26. is that the one where the kevlar vest melted?

I didn't know that stuff could melt. Poor guy... :(

[Spentastic]

29. Because it fucking can't

Kevlar is used in many fire resistant scenarios. It oxidises to dust. Whilst being set on fire probably isn't best fun kevlar "melting" is the least of a soldiers problems.

On edit apologies for language but this is the nth time I've seen kevlar and melting on this site when a quick kevlar google session would clear things up.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nihil]

31. The British soldier survived ok

There was a thread on this at the time (maybe a star-enabled person
could locate it please?) but IIRC he stripped the burning kit off OK.
(He was certainly going about it in the right way when the photo was
taken so shouldn't have needed more than a first-aid kit to fix him up.)

[GreenArrow]

2. Hessians...

.

[ScrewyRabbit]

4. So mercs are costing us as much as 15 million dollars a day?

Pretty soon you're talking about real money!

[saigon68]

7. They are still calling them Contractors

My neighbor told me he had I some contractors over at his house to fix the plumbing, fat guy in overalls, butt crack showing.

That's a contractor. Blackwater employees with M-4s, dressed in Level IV body armor, wearing all black are mercenaries - not contractors, unless you mean a contract in the Soprano sense of the word.

[thiland67]

9. How can you show butcrack with overalls on?

That makes no sense at all if you know what overalls are.

[saigon68]

38. Sorry ---- they were Levis that were too small

I wondered that too.

That's what I thought he told me.

After you posted your reply I called him back.

He confirmed that the "Contractor" was wearing LEVIs.

Way to critique the posts. We at DU here need an accuracy proof reader. You should write Skinner and ask for the job.

The Mercenaries DON'T have their BUTT CRACKS showing. They are much too professional for that.

[theHandpuppet]

53. Your post was okay by me, saigon...

.. besides, it was nice of you not to point out to the poster that the word BUTT is spelled with two T's and that the term BUTT (two TT's) CRACK is comprised of two words, not a compound word. But you're a gentleman of manners! :)

[closetohome]

11. Setting the record straight

"...the four civilian contractors worked for Blackwater Security Consulting, a company based in Moyock, N.C., the company said in a statement. The company is a security firm that hires former military members from the United States and other countries to provide security training and guard services. In Iraq, the company was hired by the Pentagon to provide security for convoys that delivered food in the Fallujah area, the company statement said."

http://www.newsandobserver.com/nc24hour/ncnews/story/3465797p-3080250c.html


I happen to know several people currently working over there as contractors. Yes, some are ex-military...and some have never been in the military. Ex-military does not equal mercenary, you understand.

[bemildred]

13. "guarding a convoy on its way to deliver food to troops"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x458685

[closetohome]

15. Just goes to show you...

Just goes to show you shouldn't believe all you read...especially from the Washington Post.

Do you even know what commando means? A commando is a military unit trained and organized as shock troops especially for hit-and-run raids into enemy territory. (courtesy of MW)

Now that doesn't quite describe those hired to guard a convoy delivering food, now does it?

Sounds like the Washington Post doesn't know what it's reporting...as usual. They like to use inciting words...but really should learn how to use them in the right context.

Spin...spin...spin

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

39. adios

[bemildred]

17. I must confess I am wondering what happened to the convoy?

These people seem to have gotten in trouble by themselves,
or at least I've seen no description of the whole course of
events. It is far enough along in time to wonder why a more
complete accounting of events has not been given.

[RamboLiberal]

22. MSNBC said they were on way to escort convoy

not actually escorting a convoy. Who knows if that is true.

[BrotherBuzz]

18. I suppose even commandos have to do scut work occasionally

I guess these four drew the short straws...

Blackwater Security Consulting is a strategic division of Blackwater USA. Blackwater USA has historically provided a spectrum of support to military, government agencies, law enforcement and civilian entities in training, targets and range operations as a solution provider. Blackwater Security Consulting has it roots in the Special Operations community and continues to sustain the skills that have been acquired over the years as effective tools that will support both national and commercial objectives. Our staff has a wealth of exceptional experience worldwide and is renowned for dealing with high-risk situations and complex operations. Our mission is to provide the client with veteran military, intelligence and law enforcement professionals with demonstrated field operations performance tempered with mature experience in both foreign and domestic requirements. We employ only the most highly motivated and professional operators, all drawn from various U.S. and international Special Operations Forces, Intelligence and Law Enforcementorganizations. We focus on physical and personal security, personal security/risk and assessments, and training.

http://blackwatersecurity.com/

[Mari333]

25. Oh. Michael emailed us that convoys are blown up daily with food

and mail we send him. You see, we are sending him food because he says he is so hungry.
they are using the mercenaries to go thru the towns also , it seems , to bring food and mail to the soldiers.
that means the soldiers arent getting enough food.
that also means Bush is doing this for re selection, thats all...troop deaths would be higher.
this has got to end.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[rman]

20. i understand these are hired guns. n/t

-

[TankLV]

51. And I suppose you believe bunkerboy when he speaks?

Or Powell?

Or "the dick" Cheney?

Or Gorgonzola Rice?

I would reconsider my friends if they consisted of "housewives" like you know.

Mercinariy: Paid professional soldier.
Black Opps: Very scary guys. Think Al Capone's thugs. Think "let me twist this coat hanger in your skull for kicks and then laugh at your suffering".

Yeah, right, you "know some people".

Did I tell you that I was extremely handsome and wealthy? Do you believe me, too?

OK, not really wealthy!

[TankLV]

52. More info for your sorely lacking education:

(thanks to another poster on another thread)

www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/163052.html

<snip>

Johnston was on the ground and saw firsthand what the military was complaining about. "My main problem," he explains, "was with the kids, but I wasn't too happy with them ripping off the government, either. DynCorp is just as immoral and elite as possible, and any rule they can break they do. There was this one guy who would hide parts so we would have to wait for parts and, when the military would question why it was taking so long, he'd pull out the part and say 'Hey, you need to install this.' They'd have us replace windows in helicopters that weren't bad just to get paid. They had one kid, James Harlin, over there who was right out of high school and he didn't even know the names and purposes of the basic tools. Soldiers that are paid $18,000 a year know more than this kid, but this is the way they grease their pockets. What they say in Bosnia is that DynCorp just needs a warm body Ñ that's the DynCorp slogan. Even if you don't do an eight-hour day, they'll sign you in for it because that's how they bill the government. It's a total fraud."

Remember, Johnston was fired by this company. He laughs bitterly recalling the work habits of a DynCorp employee in Bosnia who "weighed 400 pounds and would stick cheeseburgers in his pockets and eat them while he worked. The problem was he would literally fall asleep every five minutes. One time he fell asleep with a torch in his hand and burned a hole through the plastic on an aircraft." This same man, according to Johnston, "owned a girl who couldn't have been more than 14 years old. It's a sick sight anyway to see any grown man with a child, but to see some 45-year-old man who weighs 400 pounds with a little girl, it just makes you sick." It is precisely these allegations that Johnston believes got him fired.

Johnston reports that he had been in Bosnia only a few days when he became aware of misbehavior in which many of his DynCorp colleagues were involved. He tells INSIGHT, "I noticed there were problems as soon as I got there, and I tried to be covert because I knew it was a rougher crowd than I'd ever dealt with. It's not like I don't drink or anything, but DynCorp employees would come to work drunk. A DynCorp van would pick us up every morning and you could smell the alcohol on them. There were big-time drinking issues. I always told these guys what I thought of what they were doing, and I guess they just thought I was a self-righteous fool or something, but I didn't care what they thought."

The mix of drunkenness and working on multimillion-dollar aircraft upon which the lives of U.S. military personnel depended was a serious enough issue, but Johnston drew the line when it came to buying young girls and women as sex slaves. "I heard talk about the prostitution right away, but it took some time before I understood that they were buying these girls. I'd tell them that it was wrong and that it was no different than slavery Ñ that you can't buy women. But they'd buy the women's passports and they owned them and would sell them to each other."

<lots more!>
www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/163052.html

[BrotherBuzz]

54. DynCorp conveniently changed it's name

New and improved? The question that begs to be asked - Who owns CSC? I'm guessing Carlyle Group.

[osaMABUSh]

6. What rules do the mercenaries go by and how many are there?

Use of mercenaries brings up some interesting thoughts. Are there 15,000 (or more) in Iraq? So we say there are 120,000 or so soldiers but we don't count the mercenaries?

Aren't they Americans and aren't they dying for our country? Ok, so they don't get any attention unless their charred corpses are dragged through the streets?

What rules do they go by? Can they shoot anybody? Do they abide by the Geneva conventions? What if they are taken by the Iraqis? Are they POWs?

This mercenary business takes outsourcing to another level.

[saigon68]

8. They have no Rules and NO LAWS WHATSOEVER

Except the Law of the Jungle

[keithyboy]

12. It's called "outsourcing" and it is pervasive in the government under

Republican regimes. So when most stuff goes wrong in government, it's not really career Fed employees but the 'contractors' who are paid more money, work better hours, have better benefits, and don't really give a damn about what kind of job they do. Once the contract is signed, the money is signed sealed and delivered except for those pesky "overruns" for which more money is paid out. And guess who owns most of the contract companies? So, the wealthy friends of the Republicans get to have their cake and eat it too, they get the tax breaks and the largess of the Federal public funds and they make the public hate Federal workers and believe that the government is spending too much money on social programs like welfare.

[leftofthedial]

14. no wonder it's costing us hundreds of billions

we give the money to Halliburton to pay mercenaries a thou a day

[OneBlueSky]

19. this is SO outrageous! . . . how do you think our troops feel . . .

when they see private mercenaries being paid huge sums for doing the same work they volunteered to do in the belief that they'd be serving their country? . . . sounds to me like BushCo is raising a private army at taxpayer expense . . . might come in handy if he has to steal the election and keep an outraged populace under control . . . absolutely disgusting! . . .

[proud patriot]

21. our tax dollars paying for them aren't they ?

:-(

[leftchick]

27. yes! The sad part besides that huge waste of money...

Is that we are still going to need a draft, even with them, if the US continues to persure aWol*s Iraq-nam.

[Corgigal]

30. We're going to need a draft

because of them. The "real" deal Special ops are going to cash in and forward their resume to this company and others like it. I mean why get shot at for 30,000 a year when you can triple your earnings.

Another smart idea of Rummy.

[Tommy_Douglas]

41. Draft may not be necessary....

After all even the PNAC'ers don't want to anger the American populace too much. Then people might do something rash like revolt.

I don't think money is any object to Bush and the boys. The want to bankrupt the government anyways (Norquist's wet dream)

No surprise to me that there are Merc's there. You don't even have to report their casualties. And I'm sure they've committed all kinds of gruesome acts, that they don't want to dirty the regular troops hands with.

And if Bush needs more cheap troops he doesn't need a draft. He just needs to continue recruiting hispanics from South American countries with the promise of U.S. citizenship after they've served.

[Dr Fate]

23. Why cant they pay the regular Troops that much $$$???

???

Who ARE these guys? Real-life Soldier of Fortune Magazine types?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oggy]

32. Welcome to DU

Nick UK. I saw the pictures. I don't support anyone using force to get their way, American, British or Iraqi. Ghandi had it right.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

35. No I live in the US and I have opposed this invasion from the beginning

and opposed the stolen election
no one listened to us.
no one.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[atreides1]

46. nick uk has a point

He does have a point, even though some opposed the election, the majority didn't care.

It's the same now with this never ending war, the majority of Americans don't care as long as it doesn't happen to anyone they know.

The same Americans that are now calling for Falluja to be bombed into dust, were the ones who were cheering when US bombs fell on civilian targets, killing Iraqi civilians.

Where were the cries of anguish, and the calls for justice when we were killing children, there were none. When US soldiers kill, it's
investigated and white washed away. Always with the excuse that those involved were following the Rules of Engagement.

The majority of Americans no longer care enough about their freedom to actually want to fight for it, even here at DU there are elements who believe that nothing but talking will settle everything.

And if someone says we must fight, they get flamed. As Benjamin Franklin said "We have given you a Republic, if you can keep it."

In order to keep something you have to be willing to fight for it, and die for it, if neccessary. Most Americans do not possess that much courage anymore, they're just fine watching their reality shows, and wondering who's going to be fired by Donald Trump next week.

It's sad when you think about it!!!

Just my own opinion:(

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oggy]

40. Just my view.

Nick, I do understand where you are coming from. My reply was from a idealistic personal view. That is I do want the occupying forces out, but I don't like violence ( probably because as a kid I was very violent but I got through it and now I find it repulsive, because I know how easy it is to be violent ). Your last line does highlight the irony, and yes violence does work, unfortunately. Add to your list the Maori's who by being violent in the 19th Century managed to get one the best settlements from a colonual power at that time.

IMHO I think the US is more bothered about energy than empire, it is almost incidental. I don't know if you have been lurking for a while, but in case you haven't do a search on Peak Oil, or keep an eye out for posts about it. This will IMHO be the driver for foriegn policy by the big powers over the next 50 years ( if we are lucky ).
I enclose a link to some info. Not the best, but I am trying to get out of work so I am rushing a bit.

http://www.gulland.ca/depletion/depletion.htm

I look forward to seeing more of your posts.

[yellowcanine]

42. Hmm - Empires and Merceneries

Seems to me that the Bushbots should pay more attention to history. In 1776 an empire hired some merceneries to fight a bunch of ragtag rebels and the rebels won.

[tom_paine]

43. History repeats: King George need his Hessians.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

If these people aren't stopped, they will spread their cloak of Totalitarian Darnkess all over the world and the human race. Which probably means GAME OVER because I don't think humanity can withstand anothe extended period of Nazism/Communism/(Bushevik/Putinvik) "Managed Democracy"

[suegeo]

44. Corporate combatant

I prefer to label them as Corporate Combatants.
Or how about privatized soldiers?

[bobthedrummer]

45. They are mercenaries, employees of private companies

that have been awarded government contracts. It is quite a growth industry under the administration of George W. Bush aka The War President.:puke:

Windfalls of War
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/

[saigon68]

48. Unfortunately the best laid plans of mice and men

go down the drain

[mia]

55. US NC: Soldiers of Good Fortune

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03.n1116.a01.html

SOLDIERS OF GOOD FORTUNE

They fly helicopters, guard military bases and provide reconnaissance. They're private military companies--and they're replacing U.S. soldiers in the war on terrorism...

Indeed, the Bush administration's push to privatize war is swiftly turning the military-industrial complex of old into something even more far-reaching: a complex of military industries that do everything but fire weapons. For-profit military companies now enjoy an estimated $100 billion in business worldwide each year, with much of the money going to Fortune 500 firms like Halliburton, DynCorp, Lockheed Martin, and Raytheon. Secretary of the Army Thomas White, a former vice chairman of Enron, "has really put a mark on the wall for getting government employees out of certain functions in the military," says retired Colonel Tom Sweeney, professor of strategic logistics at the U.S. Army War College. "It allows you to focus your manpower on the battlefield kinds of missions."

Private military companies, for their part, are focusing much of their manpower on Capitol Hill....

(more)

[jpgray]

47. Dyncorp. Bosnia. This is a LOUSY idea (nt)

[BrotherBuzz]

50. You got that right

And LOUSY on about a hundred $illion levels, too!

www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/163052.html

<snip>

Johnston was on the ground and saw firsthand what the military was complaining about. "My main problem," he explains, "was with the kids, but I wasn't too happy with them ripping off the government, either. DynCorp is just as immoral and elite as possible, and any rule they can break they do. There was this one guy who would hide parts so we would have to wait for parts and, when the military would question why it was taking so long, he'd pull out the part and say 'Hey, you need to install this.' They'd have us replace windows in helicopters that weren't bad just to get paid. They had one kid, James Harlin, over there who was right out of high school and he didn't even know the names and purposes of the basic tools. Soldiers that are paid $18,000 a year know more than this kid, but this is the way they grease their pockets. What they say in Bosnia is that DynCorp just needs a warm body Ñ that's the DynCorp slogan. Even if you don't do an eight-hour day, they'll sign you in for it because that's how they bill the government. It's a total fraud."

Remember, Johnston was fired by this company. He laughs bitterly recalling the work habits of a DynCorp employee in Bosnia who "weighed 400 pounds and would stick cheeseburgers in his pockets and eat them while he worked. The problem was he would literally fall asleep every five minutes. One time he fell asleep with a torch in his hand and burned a hole through the plastic on an aircraft." This same man, according to Johnston, "owned a girl who couldn't have been more than 14 years old. It's a sick sight anyway to see any grown man with a child, but to see some 45-year-old man who weighs 400 pounds with a little girl, it just makes you sick." It is precisely these allegations that Johnston believes got him fired.

Johnston reports that he had been in Bosnia only a few days when he became aware of misbehavior in which many of his DynCorp colleagues were involved. He tells INSIGHT, "I noticed there were problems as soon as I got there, and I tried to be covert because I knew it was a rougher crowd than I'd ever dealt with. It's not like I don't drink or anything, but DynCorp employees would come to work drunk. A DynCorp van would pick us up every morning and you could smell the alcohol on them. There were big-time drinking issues. I always told these guys what I thought of what they were doing, and I guess they just thought I was a self-righteous fool or something, but I didn't care what they thought."

The mix of drunkenness and working on multimillion-dollar aircraft upon which the lives of U.S. military personnel depended was a serious enough issue, but Johnston drew the line when it came to buying young girls and women as sex slaves. "I heard talk about the prostitution right away, but it took some time before I understood that they were buying these girls. I'd tell them that it was wrong and that it was no different than slavery Ñ that you can't buy women. But they'd buy the women's passports and they owned them and would sell them to each other."

<lots more!>
www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/163052.html

[leesa]

49. Well, I certainly won't be shedding any tears if they are knocked off

Of course, we have to pay for these greedy fools via Halliburton contracts, I suppose.