Fears of Sharia Law in America Grow Among Conservatives

[sabra]

Source: CBS News

The rise of anti-Muslim sentiment in America has brought with it a wave of largely-unsubstantiated suggestions from conservative media commentators and politicians that America is at risk of falling under the sway of Sharia law.

First, a definition: Sharia law is strict Islamic law. It is designed to guide devout Muslims in their personal and professional dealings, and has been used by the Taliban and others to justify limits on women's rights and harsh punishments, including amputation and stoning. (It is open to interpretation, however; here's a helpful backgrounder from the Council on Foreign Relations.)

Last week, Nevada GOP Senate candidate Sharron Angle invoked Sharia law when asked about "Muslims wanting to take over the United States."

"They are building mosques all over the place," the questioner told Angle. "They want to build one near (ground zero). And they seem to be getting their way. On a TV program just last night I saw that they are taking over a city in Michigan."

...

The notion that Sharia law is coming to America has been percolating in the conservative media for a while. Fox News' Sean Hannity suggested the arrest of the Christian missionaries in Dearborn reflected the possibility that "Sharia law is taking over in Dearborn," as did Fox News' Brian Kilmeade, who interviewed one of the men who was arrested.

At the Values Voters summit in September, Newt Gingrich said - to a standing ovation - that "(w)e should have a federal law that says Sharia law cannot be recognized by any court in the United States." He has also warned that jihadists are trying "to replace Western civilization with a radical imposition of Sharia."

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20019405-503544.html?tag=stack

[ellie]

1. It is just amazing to me that this lunacy

is getting attention in the mainstream media. Sharia law my ass.

[Karenina]

31. Americans need to familiarize themselves with the

Christian Reconstructionism and Dominionism currently biting them in the ass. Sharia law, indeed! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[BonnieJW]

39. And how closely it resembles the kind of law

repukes want to install: no legal abortion, teaching creationism, religion in public schools, they would probably send gays to a "special" camp away from "normal" people, of course no equal rights for gays. Why would they be afraid of Sharia law?? It sounds like a conservative's wet dream.

[AlinPA]

58. Exactly.

[YvonneCa]

63. Fear-mongering seems to have that effect. I agree with you that...

...the media promoting this stuff is shameful.

[NewJeffCT]

2. I saw that Frankford, TX (one of the "Sharia Law" towns) no longer exists

I guess the zombies & ghosts that populate the town practice Sharia Law?

[krispos42]

7. It was absorbed into a major Texas city (Houston?) about 35 years ago.

:rofl:

[Proud Liberal Dem]

13. And we all know what a hotbed of Islam Houston (or pretty much all of Texas) is, right?

:eyes:

[krispos42]

18. Radical Latino Muslims are everywhere down there.

If gay Muslim Mexicans sneak across the border, become unionized public-school teachers, and start converting our children to teh gay... when will it end???


:sarcasm:

[Proud Liberal Dem]

34. Oh! Teh Horror!!!

:scared:

[awoke_in_2003]

40. and Houston...

has an openly gay mayor. Coincidence? I think not :)

[deutsey]

3. Sigh. How can we possibly win against such entrenched delusion?

:evilfrown:

[FSogol]

4. There really is no limit on the stupid crap that flows out of the GOP mouths is there?

:puke: Why does our "liberal media" treat these morons seriously?

[NoodleyAppendage]

5. Christian Law Terrifies Me More...and it's more likely.

This Sharia Law crap is nothing more than election politicking by Conservative masters. They know that the uninformed, ignorant and genuinely stupid conservative electorate is motivated to vote by fear and loathing. They appeal not to the cerebral cortex (which has atrophied in their electorate), but to the amygdala.

J

[mrcheerful]

15. What is really funny is that at one time conservonuts thought America needed Sharia Law

because it was really tough on crime. Why if you caught someone stealing cutting off their hand was a good way to stop them from stealing and America was a pussy country because they executed people with drugs when beheading would have sent a better message, odd thing about conservonuts was they were not able to link that even with beheadings people didn't stop killing each other.

Edited because I hit post instead of check spelling

[tularetom]

22. Exactly, you would think they'd be looking forward to it

As I understand it, Sharia law sounds an awful lot like what right wing religious wack jobs would like to see in the US.

[SpiralHawk]

17. Absolutely. This is intentional PROJECTION by Republicon so-called 'christians'

who have every intention of imposing 'Biblical law' on the USA should they ever have the opportunity -- and as usual they are up to their Republicon OCCULTIST tricks, using projection and distraction to make people look the other way.

It's the same shit as the Republicon Family Values BS gambit. They 'claim' they are morally superior, but then merrily leap into the closet for wide-stance, diaper-clad, rentboy, luggage handling faux lesbian credit-card public-bathroom stall sexual hijinks.

Ptoooey on pervo Republicon Family Value Hypocrites, their Rentboy Morality, their Biblical Perversions, and their patently phony claims about Sharia Law in the USA

[awoke_in_2003]

41. exactly....

that is why we need to start kicking religion out of politics. It has no place there.

[xchrom]

6. this bullshit is all manufactured.

it just sounds all exciting when the media reports on it.

[ixion]

8. and this psycho-babble passes for 'news', eh CBS?

Me think thou doth protest too much.

[MrModerate]

9. This is just another bogeyman to frighten Moron-Americans with . . .

And as we know, Moron-Americans are easily frightened. Hopefully they´ll still be cowering under their rocks on election day.

[MrModerate]

10. Dang! Why does every post I make spawn three? Self-delete

[Angry Dragon]

21. Because your posts are so good

they just try to reproduce

[awoke_in_2003]

42. I don't know. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

43. I don't know. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

44. I don't know. nt

[MrModerate]

11. Self-delete

[MinneapolisMatt]

12. The media has abdicated all responsibility.

For them to even be running these types of stories is just garbage.

[krispos42]

14. If Sharia law can take hold here, it is the fault of the Christian fundamentalists

THEY are the ones that reject secular law. THEY are the ones that insist that religous laws from the majority faith should be national and state law. THEY are the ones that insist those laws should be enforced by the police and the courts.


If the Christian fundies don't want to be oppressed by Muslim religious law at some point in the distant future, they shouldn't be oppressing people with Christian religious law NOW.

[awoke_in_2003]

45. +1 Billion. nt

[shraby]

16. Republicans just make shit up and throw it to the media

which then runs with it as if it's an actual story with real facts in it. Indicative of the way the media reports things today.

[earcandle]

19. Here go the repugs attempting to set yet another war stage, only now its here at home.

[Angry Dragon]

20. The republicands are right on this, Sharia law does not belong here

Religious laws have no place in government.

They are just stating that god, gods, religion,
etc., have no place in the function of government.

It seems they are advocating for a clear seperation of church and state.
That I can get behind.

[Donnachaidh]

36. So the fundamentalists will impose their own form of sharia

We have a rabid bunch already in our government who want to institutionalize xtian laws. And I'm sure, if they could get away with it, they'd push through laws on the same level, only xtianized. :shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

23. The latest boogeyman.

I thought we were all going to be forced to live under a Marxist regime. What, are they going to combine Marxism with Sharia law?

[TwilightGardener]

24. Oh, they've been wetting their pants over this for a while now.

[Bragi]

25. The left should not be so dismissive of this anxiety

I think there is need to understand a few things to approach this topic intelligently. If we simply declare that any and all concerns about the possible application of Sharia law are simply unfounded, then I don't think we will be doing much to advance intelligent public discussion of this matter.

In this context, and based on my own reading and research, I note as follows:

1. First of all, we should acknowledge that yes, most countries with a Muslim majority do include Sharia law as at least part of their legal and constitutional framework. Under Sharia law, there is no division of church and state, and blasphemy against Islam is a serious crime. Objectively, Sharia law is not consistent with the U.S. Constitution.

2. There are indeed *some* Muslims who advocate replacing laws pretty well everywhere Muslims live with Sharia law. Most informed observers agree that these people do not represent a significant proportion of Muslims globally, let alone a majority of Muslims outside the main Muslim countries.

3. There has been a movement in recent years at the UN and elsewhere by Islamic countries to push for laws in all countries making anti-religious blasphemy illegal. These resolutions against "Combating Defamation of Religions" are intended to apply to all religions, but they specifically highlight prohibitions against “the negative projection of Islam in the media and the introduction and enforcement of laws that specifically discriminate against and target Muslims.”

4. In the U.S, anti-blasphemy laws are pretty much a non-starter, as they would violate the first amendment right to free expression and violate the separation of church and state. In Europe and elsewhere, however, blasphemy against Islam is now often prosecuted as hate speech, and hence, in those places, it is not inaccurate to say that Sharia anti-blasphemy laws are being enforced in those places by secular authorities (e.g. the UK). There are indeed Muslims in the U.S who think the U.S should follow suit, but there is no reason to think this is a large group.

I make the above points because I believe them to be true, and relevant, if we are to discuss this matter intelligently. If you think I'm making it all up, then I would urge you to go to google, peruse the available information on this, and inform yourself. (A good starting search term: "Combating Defamation of Religions")

As I have expressed previously on these boards, I am personally concerned that the "progressive left" (which I consider myself to be a member of) is being too angrily dismissive about anxieties people have about Muslims and Sharia law and the like, and that we need to be better informed, and have better arguments, if we are to rationally defend and promote social and religious tolerance.

Simply denying that any basis for concern exists is, I think, a bad and low-credibility way for the left to counter the myths and bigotry being peddled right now by the right. The reason why this kind of approach isn't persuasive is that, quite frankly, when people like Salman Rushdie remain under police protection, when Danish newspaper editors continue to be stalked by murder-minded Muslim radicals wanting to pursue the fatwa against them, and when people like American cartoonist Molly Norris have to go into hiding because of their legal expression of free speech, then people know there is a problem. Simply dismissing it as a bogus matter of concern only to bigots and racists is wrong, and lacks credibility.

[awoke_in_2003]

46. krispos42 nails it here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4574007&mesg_id=4574027

[awoke_in_2003]

49. oh, and you points are valid, also. nt

[JDPriestly]

52. But with a staunchly Catholic majority on our Supreme Court,

who knows what the First Amendment says?

[jberryhill]

61. Can you buy alcohol on Sunday where you live?

We have a lot of laws that, in some way or another, relate to respect for religion.

Liquor on Sunday, how far away a bar or porn shop needs to be from a church, etc.

Death threats against Salman Rushdie have nothing to do with any movement or initiative within any legal system anywhere in the United States. If Dr. Tiller had police protection against the "Christian fatwa", he would be alive today. Nonjudicial death sentences are illegal in the US, and there is not the slightest chance they will become so. Hence, I do not understand what connection you are making between a wholly fabricated "threat"' to our legal system, and the illegal designs of religious fanatics - of any religion.

But here's the deal. We have a Constitutional form of government. If a town wants to regulate the sale of alcohol by requiring shops to be at least 100 feet from a public gathering place such as a church, school, or whatever, that's fine. If a town wants to have a noise ordinance that applies equally to church bells and prayer calls, that's fine too.

No one goes running around screaming "Canon Law!" when states make exceptions to liquor laws to permit minors to take communion (and most states have precisely such an exception).

People may have all sorts of religious or non-religious motivations for what they'd like to see be made law. Our system doesn't inquire into motivations, but simply whether there is a rational, legitimate, or compelling state interest in a proposed piece of legislation (depending on the subject of the regulation).

So, can you ban alcohol sales on Sunday? Sure. One can argue that it cuts down on Monday hangovers, and thus promotes economic productivity, and that's a fine reason. Whether one's "real" motivation has something to do with the Christian religion is not relevant, so long as there is some other reason.

But, no, some minute fraction of the population is not on the verge of imposing odious religious laws on the rest of the population, and I don't even understand the mechanism by which this is somehow an imminent threat.

What you have people freaking out over are the sorts of neighborly accommodations that normal people make - like late football practice during Ramadan, etc. That's just being decent, just as Christian and Jewish shift workers have traded Christmas for Rosh Hashanah for ages.

As far as "anti-blasphemy" laws go, there are in many jurisdictions religious-neutral anti-desecration laws. Yes, it is a specific crime in many places to do property damage to a religious edifice, because we recognize that it is a type of aggravated vandalism which is intended to cause a particular type of personal emotional pain to those affected. There is nothing wrong with that sort of thing. The notion that some pure speech prohibition on blasphemy per se would gain enough popular support in this country is ridiculous.

But, that said, look at how many people on DU think that "hate speech" is some sort of crime in the US. Any type of "hate speech" regulation would itself have to be neutral to the point that, yes, it would resemble the sort of speech regulations that other places are experimenting with.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

26. They should do a poll and ask these ''conservatives'' if they know what Sharia Law is. nt

[irislake]

27. I am gob-smacked!

Those nuts can be led to believe anything no matter how far-fetched and absurd. They must be the stupidest people on the face of this earth! Very unsettling for outsiders to see the most powerful war-making nation on earth housing such a violently irrational element. It will grow in strength, encouraged by the corporate media, the war-mongering elites, and the worsening economic situation. Reminds me of Germany in the 30`s. All it needs is a charismatic figure like a Hitler to light the fuse.

Lord help us all!

(Not that I believe in any religion.)

[Hepburn]

28. Sooo...the RW assholes fear Sharia law coming to the U.S., but...

...they want to end all reproductive rights for women. :shrug:

[DFW]

29. And yet they are with Scalia, Alito, Roberts, Thomas and Kennedy deciding our law?

We're getting close to Sharia law with a cross instead of a crescent, and yet they are afraid of one and not the other?

I'm trying very hard to take them seriously, and getting nowhere.

[kestrel91316]

30. But these same nutballs want biblical law to replace the constitution.

The hypocrisy boggles the mind.

[unblock]

32. the path to sharia law in america begins with the push for christian law

the more the right-wing religious wingnuts push for "god's law" and jesus in congress and all that crap, the more they legitimize government imposition of religious preachings.

from that point on, it's just a matter of demographics. if we eventually have enough muslims, then sharia law will become the logical successor to christian law.


the first amendment is surely the best defense against all this crap. you oppose sharia law by opposing christian law as well as ANY religious law. it's simply not the government's place to get involved in religion, or to go about its own business as if it were a church.

[Bragi]

37. Quite so: "the first amendment is the best defense"

The Xian fundies and the extreme Muslims could come together around the idea of enacting "anti-blasphemy" laws.

If so, I think demographics would mean that the US would become not a Sharia-governed state, but an Xian theocracy.

This is exactly why I was so concerned a few weeks back when there were so many people here who were keen on sacrificing first amendment rights to prevent nutbar Pastor Terry Jones from burning a Koran.

It is also why I was so disappointed that the Obama White House went nuts publicly condemning Jones to get him to not burn the Koran, but remained totally silent on his first amendment right to do this anyway. I think a great "teachable moment" was lost.

[onager]

This atheist has lived under Sharia law twice

For 2 years in Saudi Arabia and nearly 4 years in Egypt. The 2 countries are as different as night and day.

Saudi Arabia is under the Wahhabi version of Sharia law. That's where you have the Religious Police (matowa) beating people into the mosques with camel sticks and spray-painting female legs green if their skirts are too short. (I didn't actually see the latter happen, but heard about it from a Lufthansa flight attendant.)

I certainly saw enough of those pompous Koran-thumping shit-heads, though. One night in a restaurant, I saw the Religious Police harass an elderly British couple for about 20 minutes. Their crime? Being elderly, they wanted to enjoy a quiet meal away from all the screaming rug-rats in the "Family Section" of the restaurant.

But the rule is - if you have a lowly female with you, you MUST sit in the Family Section. Only unaccompanied males get to sit at the good tables.

Egypt: I lived in Alexandria, which is considered the most cosmopolitan/liberal city in Egypt. It has a very large college-age population, due to several campuses of Alexandria University scattered around the city. Until fairly recently (1980's), Egypt was not under sharia law and both Cairo and Alexandria still had bars, belly dance clubs, etc.

But in the 1970's and 80's, thousands of Egyptians went to work in - GUESS WHERE? - Saudi Arabia. They came back to Egypt infected with Wahhabism and walked right into the waiting bear-hug of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - a terrorist organization which has been trying to turn Egypt into a theocracy since 1926.

So not too many years ago, Article 2 of the Egyptian Constitution was amended to declare that Egypt was under Sharia law. The same article states that Islam is the official state religion. (For the record, that seems to directly conflict with Article 1, which defines Egypt as a "democratic socialist state." Many Egyptian politicians see the "socialist" part as an embarassment these days and want to get rid of it.)

For all its other ills, the Mubarak government seems to be fighting back against the theocrats. When I lived there (2005-2009), its Minister of Culture, Farouk Hosni, was constantly pissing off the Muslim Brotherhood. e.g., Hosni banned the hijab for female employees at the Culture ministry - including those who appear on TV.

Egypt is also home to Al-Azhar University, the oldest Islamic college in the world and a hotbed...or at least a warmbed...of (relatively) liberal Muslim theologians. One of the most outspoken is a female Sharia expert, Souad Saleh. She insists that nothing in the Koran requires women to wear niqab - the full body covering with face-mask.

Ms. Saleh gets a lot of death threats.

Speaking of that, I was in Egypt for the 2005 elections - the first elections since 1980, IIRC. I was chatting with an Egyptian friend, a woman who is a devout but not fundamentalist Muslim. I asked if she had voted. She said: "No. Because it wasn't worth my life."

[Bragi]

48. Good info, thanks. /nt

[and-justice-for-all]

33. delusional fearmongering at its best...nt

[smuglysmiling]

35. The Constitution prevents

cruel and unusual punishments....unless a huge number of whack jobs get elected and amend it there is nothing to worry about. More right wing fear for fears sake.

[rocktivity]

38. "The notion that Sharia law is coming to America is an OUT AND OUT LIE

and a midterm election scare tactic. Why are you enabling them, CBS? Oh, yeah, ratings and ad revenues...

:eyes:
rocktivity

[JDPriestly]

47. A Supreme Court on which no member is a Protestant in this

historically and predominantly Protestant country, and the rignt-wingers are worried about Muslim dominance of our laws. The Vatican is already in charge. Rest assured. We won't have Sharia law for a long time.

This is very funny. True, Protestants are not represented on our highest Court, but neither are Muslims.

[MARALE]

50. We can laugh at this

But this kind of hysteria is what started the persecution of the Jews in Germany. Putting fear into people that refuse to watch or listen to rational people and that have not been taught critical thinking is very scary to me. I was scared about this after the attacks on 911 and that lead up to the war and am still afraid of this as we continue down this path of intolerance.

[Evasporque]

51. Fear Christian Extremeist Law in America feared by Democrats...nt

[keopeli]

53. "largely-unsubstantiated suggestions"?!?! and what examples keep it from outright unsubstantiated?

[krispos42]

54. Translation: Christians fear Muslims following their precedent for religious law n/t

[drm604]

55. Conning the rubes.

That's what these people are doing, and they know it.

The people who are fomenting these kinds of unjustified fears should be ashamed of themselves. Their actions are bordering on criminal incitement.

[BreweryYardRat]

56. Fears of a non-Leviticus label grow among conservatives.

Because, let's face it, a lot of the barbaric provisions in Sharia law are the same sort of barbaric provisions in the Book of Leviticus, which conservatives have advocated instituting here in America.

Doesn't matter whether a bloodthirsty religious fanatic wears a robe or a suit -- he's still scum.

[bullwinkle428]

57. I guess the fact that it's election season is just a coincidence...

[blackspade]

59. This satatement is just plain bad reporting!

The rise of anti-Muslim sentiment in America has brought with it a wave of largely-unsubstantiated suggestions from conservative media commentators and politicians that America is at risk of falling under the sway of Sharia law.

What do they mean by largely-unsubstantiated?
More like completely unsubstantiated!
These people are crazy.
I have a lot more concern about the talabornagain douche-bags!

[lastone]

60. separation of church and state?

freedom to worship whatever god you chose?

stupid, scared conservative white folk who don't like you cause you ain't white.
they talking heads on the right could say just about anything and the 20% would buy it hook, line and jackbooted sinker.
where can i get me a brown shirt to wipe me arse with?

[cyr330]

62. STUPID FUCKING IDIOTS!!!

This has got to be the MOST ASININE thing I believe I've ever read. On second thought, maybe not, as the Tea Party is full of stupidity. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!!!!! They're all MORANS!!!