Ohio will not budge on outsourcing ban

[Newsjock]

Source: Computerworld

Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland defended his order to ban offshoring of state government work, describing it as "common sense".

In a letter to U.S. Trade Representative Ron Kirk, Strickland said that "no one in India, or anywhere else, is going to tell the citizens of Ohio where we can create jobs or how we can spend our resources."

Tuesday's letter to Kirk comes as top Indian government officials visit the U.S. for trade talks, in which the ban on offshoring by Ohio, and a federal law raising the costs of visas, are likely to figure in the discussions.

... Strickland said in his letter to Kirk that while Indian officials have objected to his actions, they have admitted they do not have a case in the World Trade Organization (WTO) because his executive order does not violate any trade agreement with India.

Read more: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9187178/Ohio_will_not_budge_on_outsourcing_ban

[47of74]

1. Good

And anyone who doesn't like that can stuff it.

[SoapBox]

27. Ditto.

...time to bring jobs back to America.

Or should I say, LONG OVER DUE that jobs be brought back to America.

Outsource CEOs.

[avaistheone1]

120. New Bumper-sticker: Save America - Outsource/Offshore CEOs

Love it.

[Jester Messiah]

41. Seriously!

Here's hoping it catches on!

[happygoluckytoyou]

60. IN A RELATED STORY-- ohio has hired cheap canadian labor to build a wall between ohio and india

oh come on.... it was a joke

[Jester Messiah]

82. *look of disapproval*

ಠ_ಠ

Edit: Aw, boo. DU won't let it in the subject.

[davidinalameda]

115. thought would be one big ass wall

[blondeatlast]

76. Meg-mega-dittoes! nt

[Deep13]

2. I'm sure this will be loud headline news all over Ohio.

*chirp**chirp**chirp* (crickets)

[valerief]

12. Sadly, probably true. nt

[pampango]

18. Page 5 in Dayton Daily News, though top story in the Ohio section.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/09/22/copy/too-bad-strickland-tells-india.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

It was a reprint of a Columbus Dispatch story, though I don't know if it made the paper in Columbus.

Our front page dealt with the filibuster in the senate, the jobless situation in the area, helicopter crash in Afghanistan, and the vandalizing of the graves of the Wright brothers and Paul Lawrence Dunbar among others.

[Deep13]

19. Well, that's good. nt

[denverbill]

3. Wow. Kudos to Strickland.

I wish all other Democrats would follow suit.

[mod mom]

83. I was glad to hear this as I thought he was a Clintonesque free trader.

I agree-would love to hears follow suit.

[Bitwit1234]

4. What do you want to bet the republicans will try to spin

this in their favor. This governor has got guts and the people of Ohio ought to recognize it.

[femrap]

8. We do....

Strickland has done a great job given what was handed to him. I pray he is reelected. He is a man of honor and he actually has a soul! Unlike Kasich, the repugnant he is facing.

[HughBeaumont]

5. Awesome! And Ohio's brilliant voters will reward him by . . .

. . . replacing him . . with a sleazeball free-trader, tax-cuttin', social program guttin, laissez-failin', Wall Street walkin, same-ol neo-clown bullshitter named John Kasich.

Absolutely amazing and astounding.

Ohio's economic problems go far beyond who is governor. There really is no need to vote someone in who'll make this state's problems infinitely worse.

[femrap]

9. Wanna bet? nt

[rucky]

35. I hope this moves gives him a boost in the polls.

Nobody likes offshoring.

[lumpy]

109. LO.. I love your apt description of John Kasich.

He is one royal ferkup.

[indy legend]

113. Never underestimate the stupidity of the RW masses when they vote

[whathehell]

6. Go Ted!

We need a whole lot MORE of this!

[Love Bug]

7. I hope this is the start of a trend

[pleah]

10. K&R Bravo!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[xchrom]

11. Recommend

[w4rma]

13. Awesome! (nt)

[L0oniX]

14. I hope this catches on with other states.

[wutangfan85]

107. Dude, you almost made me

break me damn laptop screen with that avatar.

[pennylane100]

15. That would be a great issue to put on the Californis Ballot.

Let us hope the unions will take up this cause.

[blondeatlast]

78. Correction--on EVERY state's ballot. nt

[lark]

91. Wish it were so!!!

That would never happen in a million years in Repug fat cat toadying FL. The pols here are generally disgusting.

[blondeatlast]

94. AZ here, I can sympathize. nt

[leveymg]

16. Ohio ban violates '94 WTO GATT Agreement on Gov't Procurement, Annex IV, Article III

http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/gpr-94_01_e.htm; see, related, http://www.wto.org/english/docs_e/legal_e/legal_e.htm.

Article III: National Treatment and Non-discrimination

1. With respect to all laws, regulations, procedures and practices regarding government procurement covered by this Agreement, each Party shall provide immediately and unconditionally to the products, services and suppliers of other Parties offering products or services of the Parties, treatment no less favourable than:

(a) that accorded to domestic products, services and suppliers; and

(b) that accorded to products, services and suppliers of any other Party.

2. With respect to all laws, regulations, procedures and practices regarding government procurement covered by this Agreement, each Party shall ensure:

(a) that its entities shall not treat a locally-established supplier less favourably than another locally-established supplier on the basis of degree of foreign affiliation or ownership; and

(b) that its entities shall not discriminate against locally-established suppliers on the basis of the country of production of the good or service being supplied, provided that the country of production is a Party to the Agreement in accordance with the provisions of Article IV.

[Deep13]

17. Let's see how it goes in court, then. nt

[leveymg]

21. Which court? This is a trade dispute that would be heard in the WTO court, the

Dispute Settlement Body (DSB). We signed the GATT and GATS, and are bound by these agreements. Also, the US enjoys a $125 billion trade surplus in Trade in Services. It's the manufacturing side of the agreement in which we have a huge ($600B) deficit, and most of that is because U.S.-based multinationals have been disinvesting from American operations for three decades.

A ban on outsourcing of services would put 1.25 - 2 million more Americans out of work, because we export more than we import. Not a good idea.

[Romulox]

20. Ohio is a party to the WTO?

I somehow doubt it. :hi:

[leveymg]

23. Ohio, and all states and local gov'ts, are bound by the WTO agreement the US entered into in 1994.

[Romulox]

24. Citation for that point, please? I don't believe that to be true.

edit:

This is the basis of my belief:

By contrast, as many potential contractors and sub-contractors are finding out, many states and most municipalities are not bound by these international agreement obligations, and as a result, contractors are severely limited in what products they can offer in bids for state and subfederal ARRA-funded construction projects. For example, contractors will not be able to offer most Canadian-origin and Mexican-origin construction materials for state and subfederal projects funded by ARRA. This is because, of the forty states that have agreed to be bound by at least one or more international agreements, no state has agreed to treat products of North American Free Trade Agreement (“NAFTA”) countries (i.e., Canada and Mexico) equally with domestic offers. In addition, although Canada is a member of the World Trade Organization Government Procurement Agreement (“WTO GPA”), no state has agreed to apply the WTO GPA obligations to Canadian-origin products, because Canada has never agreed to offer the procurement of its provinces under NAFTA or the WTO GPA. It is also important to keep in mind that some states have their own Buy American laws, which may be applicable. Most municipalities are not bound by any international agreement obligations. As a result, ARRA-funded projects at the municipal level are limited generally to domestic construction materials, unless a waiver of the ARRA Buy American restrictions has been granted.

http://www.globalautoindustry.com/article.php?id=5079&jaar=2010&maand=3&target=Ameri

[leveymg]

30. GATT/GATS binds all governmental law and regulations, whether federal, state, local.

http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=1915
The entire U.S. gambling service sector is covered by the provisions of the WTO’s General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) even if that is not what the United States intended during negotiations, and thus the ability of the U.S. government to regulate not only Internet but ALL forms of gambling at the federal, state and local level is limited by the rules of GATS;

*

[leveymg]

49. Errata: Ohio is one of the few states not covered by the WTO Agreement on Gov't Procurement

I was surprised to find that there is an exception in Annex 2 of the US Agreement that lists the states covered. Ohio is not among the 38 states included. My mistake. See, http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/gproc_e/appendices_e.htm#taipei Click: United States, Annex 2

This is very unusual in WTO agreements, which normally cover all governmental entities within signatory states.

[JDPriestly]

52. Do you argue that the GATS also covers the pornography, etc. industries?.

[leveymg]

56. No. Each country has an Annex with specific reservations.

The treaty contains general exemptions for protection of public safety, morals, security, etc. In addition, if the US wanted to exempt itself from the commercial importation of porn, it would have done so in its Annex of Exceptions. Other countries have.

I think that product would come under GATT for goods, rather than GATS for services.

[earcandle]

68. Stupid rules we are finally reading and going to ignore!

[JDPriestly]

48. I don't think that the legality of this at this point is the issue.

The issue is what SHOULD BE LEGAL. I expect Americans to become increasingly disgusted with these trade agreements that have harmed our economy so much. I don't think that the GATT or any of the other trade agreements will withstand the storm of American anger once the news gets out: "free trade" has ruined our economy.

When ordinary Americans become aware of how much of our economic disaster is due to "free trade," they will be far angrier at the free traders than they are at the pro-immigration groups.

[leveymg]

61. The US has a $600B deficit in trade in Goods, and a $125B SURPLUS in Trade in Services

We shouldn't cut off a perfectly good services nose that makes a lot of money (and jobs) to spite our face (manufactured goods).

Besides, most of the job loss in this recession has been due to U.S.-based multinational corporations taking the opportunity to move manufacturing and head office support operations offshore. U.S.-based multinationals have eliminated 3 million U.S. jobs since late 2007. India is not the problem, just the scapegoat. The US exports almost as much value in services to India as it imports. The current net difference is very small, about $300 million in a $20 billion trade relationship.

The US Information Sector employs almost 4 million Americans. US exports of Information services employs 1.25 million American workers. US exports to India employs 100,000 Americans. By comparison, the US deficit in IT services trade with accounts for less than 3,000 jobs. India's service sector is not the problem - it's a distraction from the fact that neither political American party has an effective program to deal with massive, long-term jobs elimination carried out by U.S.-based multinationals.

[JDPriestly]

77. I will agree to this extent:

If the numbers you cite are true (and I'm not so sure they are because you provide no source), then some Americans are making a lot of money on the exportation of services and the importation of goods. Those profits need to be shared, either in the form of income taxes to support our general funds and the impact of jobless benefits on our budget, or directly with the people here who have lost their jobs. The high unemployment rates in the US are proof beyond all others that "free trade" is not working for America.

If you can suggest a way to have free trade and still maintain a good living standard and lots of jobs for Americans here at home, I will be interested in hearing it.

Here is my suggestion:

The losses in our manufacturing -- the trade imbalance that indicates massive losses in manufacturing -- have resulted in the massive loss of jobs.

If we are able to export services and need more workers to provide services, then instead of allowing immigrants to provide services here, we should try to employ the people who used to work in manufacturing and are now jobless to do the jobs for which we think we need to import Indian and other foreign workers.

We need to take care of our manufacturing deficit and our jobless people before we allow employment immigration from other countries.

I oppose free trade absolutely, unequivocally. I have seen the devastation that free trade has caused. It has failed. We need a new approach.

[pampango]

86. The way to "have free trade and still maintain a good living standard and lots of jobs" is the EU

way."

European countries all have more free trade than we do. They maintain a good standard of living for their citizens by providing them with a strong social safety net and other progressive protections and services. They have also lost manufacturing employment in the past few decades, as did Japan, Canada and Australia, just as they lost agricultural employment in previous eras. The amount of manufacturing output has gone up as employment has gone up, just as happened in agriculture in food production.



Germany and Sweden have two of the strongest economies in Europe. In Germany unions sit on corporate boards of directors, while Sweden has the most progressive tax rates in Europe.

[leveymg]

89. Tell me which figures, and I'll find the source. Yes, income inequality is the direct result of

policies by Multinationals that are de-industrializing America. I agree it is an existential threat to our national livelihood, so I want people to understand what the primary source of the problem is. It's investment decisions made in the boardrooms of Wall Street banks and U.S. corporations that have caused this disaster - we waste our time and energy singling-out and scapegoating India and H-1B workers.

Less than 40,000 new H-1B visas have been issued this year. That is less than 1 percent of the IT workforce. They are not the reason 17 million Americans are out of work.

If we're going to fix trade, we should start with the source of most of the jobs elimination - U.S.-based multinationals that have cut at least 200,000 IT jobs, and at least three million U.S. jobs overall since the recession started. We could begin by enforcing recent changes in tax laws affecting foreign income, and apply dormant antitrust laws to pressure these companies to stop the long-term shift of operations offshore.

[avaistheone1]

121. No one knows how many service jobs have been outsourced abroad,

because U.S. companies are not required to maintain such statistics. And, if outsourcing leads to the creation of jobs elsewhere in the economy, as many economists argue, that is also difficult to quantify. Most estimates of U.S. jobs lost come from consulting companies or industry groups directly involved in outsourcing. Boston-based consultancy Forrester estimates that 400,000 service jobs have been lost to offshoring since 2000, with jobs leaving at a rate of 12,000 to 15,000 per month, says John McCarthy, the company's director of research. Other estimates say up to 20,000 jobs a month may be moving overseas. This is in addition to the 2 million manufacturing jobs that are estimated to have moved offshore since 1983. These numbers are predicted to rise. Management consulting firm McKinsey & Company's economic think tank, the McKinsey Global Institute, predicts that white-collar offshoring will increase at a rate of 30 percent to 40 percent over the next five years. By 2015, Forrester predicts, roughly 3.3 million service jobs will have moved offshore, including 1.7 million "back office" jobs such as payroll processing and accounting, and 473,000 jobs in the information technology industry.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/7749/trade.html#p6



I think offshoring is terrible for our economy. Our country and our middle class is completely unravelling and offshoring is a key contributing cause imo.

[Xithras]

64. Bound, yes, but of questionable enforcability.

One of the interesting aspects of these types of treaties is that they're not really enforceable lower than the federal level. There is no constitutional mechanism that the federal government, or foreign governments, can use to punish a state for not complying with a trade treaty. The trade treaty itself has penalties that are levyable only against the federal government.

It's a win/win situation for Strickland. If Ohio bans outsourcing and India mounts a successful WTO trade suit against the U.S. for it, the federal government gets burdened with any resulting penalties, and not the state of Ohio. The federal governments sole remedy is to sue the State of Ohio in federal court in an attempt to get the law struck down. Even if the federal government wins, Strickland still comes out looking like a hero for fighting the good fight for Ohio citizens.

[leveymg]

65. I agree. 100% This is very smart politics, regardless of its merits as policy.

Also, I stand corrected on the applicability of this particular treaty to Ohio - Annex 2 to US commitment to lift restrictions on Government Procurement does not name Ohio - it's one of the few U.S. states for which there is no specified commitment on procurement. See post #49 for the link.

[blondeatlast]

79. Do you really think the judge is ignorant of the applicable laws? nt

[4lbs]

22. Interesting then that the Indian government would state that it has no case in the WTO.

Here's why:

India didn't join the WTO government procurement agreement until February 2010. Even then, it joined, along with 22 other countries, as an "observer". It is not yet a full WTO member. Joining as an "observer" is the first step towards being a full member.

Being an "observer" is the equivalent of a student auditing a class, or someone joining a group under probationary status.

Governor Strickland has issued his Indian outsourcing ban.

Because India isn't yet a full WTO member, but just an "observer", the laws of the WTO don't yet fully apply.

As a result, Strickland's ban is in full effect, and will be grandfathered in when India becomes a full member.

If Strickland is defeated in November, then the next Governor can lift that ban after his/her inauguration.

[leveymg]

25. Please link a source for that. Thnx

India is a full member of the WTO and a signatory to GATT, to which the Procurement Agreement is an annex.

[4lbs]

29. Here you go.

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-46064720100210

February 11, 2010

<snip>
India has joined the World Trade Organization's government procurement agreement as an observer, a first step to membership in the scheme regulating trade in goods bought by governments, a WTO spokesman said on Wednesday.

The agreement, which 41 of the WTO's 153 members have signed up to, has been in the spotlight since U.S. President Barack Obama included controversial "Buy American" provisions in a stimulus package early last year, preventing many countries from bidding for public contracts under the programme.

India joins 22 WTO members with observer status. A further nine countries, including China, are already negotiating full membership.

China, like many other states, promised to become part of the agreement when it joined the WTO.

But the process is dragging on, and at a meeting on Wednesday of the WTO's committee on government procurement, members called on China to submit a revised offer as soon as possible, according to a participant in the meeting.
<snip>


Note that none of this applies to whether a PRIVATE business wants to outsource their jobs to India. It only prevents that GATT agreement from applying to outsourcing of government jobs to India, since it is still an "observer".

[leveymg]

31. For years, India has been party to a number of DSB trade disputes.

You may be right about India not yet being a full signatory to the Gov't Procurement Annex. However, this doesn't stop any of those nations that are from lodging a complaint.

Regardless of India's status on this particular issue, the US is bound by the agreement. The Governor's Order is not lawful.

[4lbs]

34. Wrong. The Government's order bans the outsourcing of state government jobs to India.

Any PRIVATE business in Ohio can still outsource to India. His ban doesn't cover that.

It prevents Ohio state government jobs from going to India.

I don't think President Obama would have the "Buy American" clause in his stimulus package if he thought that it would be challenged in the WTO courts. All "Buy American" does is give preferential treatment to American companies, employing American workers, when they bid for government contracts funded by the stimulus bill. It doesn't prevent any private business from outsourcing jobs if they aren't being funded by the stimulus bill.

[leveymg]

36. No. The Governor's order applies to all countries, not just India. Here's the text:

Full text of the governor's executive order is pasted below: http://governor.ohio.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=1753

Executive Order 2010-09S

Banning the Expenditure
of Public Funds for Offshore Services

1. Ohio's Economic Vitality Necessitates Constant Vigilance in State Job Creation Efforts. State officials and employees must at all times remain passionately focused on initiatives that will create and retain jobs in the United States in general and in Ohio, in particular, and must do so especially during Ohio's continuing efforts to recover from the recent global recession.

2. No Public Funds Should be Spent on Services Provided Offshore. Allowing public funds to pay for offshore services undermines economic development objectives and any such offshore services carry unacceptable quality and security risks.

a. The Purchase of Offshore Services with Public Funds Undermines Economic Development and Other Job Creation and Retention Objectives. The expenditure of public funds for services provided offshore deprives Ohioans and other Americans critical employment opportunities. It also undermines efforts to attract businesses to Ohio and retain them in Ohio, initiatives in which the State has invested heavily.

b. The Purchase of Offshore Services Has Unacceptable Business Consequences. The use of offshore service providers could pose unacceptable data security, and thus privacy and identity theft risks. There are pervasive service delivery problems with offshore providers, including dissatisfaction with the quality of their services and with the fact that services are being provided offshore. It is difficult and expensive to detect illegal activity and contract violations and to pursue legal recourse for poor performance or data security violations. The State's use of offshore service providers ill-serves the people of Ohio who are the primary consumers of the services provided by the State.

3. Ohio's Policy Has Been--and Must Continue To Be--That Public Funds Should Not Be Spent on Services Provided Offshore. Throughout my Administration, procurement procedures have been in place that restrict the purchase of offshore services. Despite these requirements, federal stimulus funds were recently used to purchase services from a domestic company which ultimately provided some of those services offshore. This incident was unacceptable and has caused me, through this Order, to redouble my commitment to ensure that public funds are not expended for offshore services.

4. Additional Steps Will Ensure that Public Funds Are Not Spent on Services Provided Offshore. In order to ensure that the State of Ohio makes no expenditures for services provided offshore, I hereby order the following:

a. No Cabinet Agency, Board or Commission (Executive Agency) shall enter into any contract which uses any funds within its control to purchase services which will be provided outside the United States. This Order applies to all funds in the custody of an Executive Agency, be they from state, federal, philanthropic or private sources. It applies to all purchases of service made directly by an Executive Agency and services provided by sub-contractors of those providing services purchased by an Executive Agency.

b. This Executive Order will be personally provided, by the Director, Chair or other chief executive official of each Executive Agency, to the Chief Procurement Officer or other individual at that entity responsible for contracts for services.

c. The Department of Administrative Services, through Ohio's Chief Procurement Officer (OCPO), shall have in place, by August 31, 2010, procedures to ensure all of the following:

i. All agency procurement officers, or the person with equivalent duties at each Executive Agency (APOs), have standard language in all Executive Agency contracts which:

(a) Reflect this Order's prohibition on the purchase of offshore services.

(b) Require service providers or prospective service providers to:

(i) Affirm that they understand and will abide by the requirements of this Order.

(ii) Disclose the location(s) where all services will be performed by any contractor or subcontractor.

(iii) Disclose the locations(s) where any state data associated with any of the services they are providing, or seek to provide, will be accessed, tested, maintained, backed-up or stored.

(iv) Disclose any shift in the location of any services being provided by the contractor or any subcontractor.

(v) Disclose the principal location of business for the contractor and all subcontractors who are supplying services to the state under the proposed contract.

ii. All APOs are ensuring that all quotations, statements of work, and other such proposals for services affirm this Order's prohibition on the purchase of offshore services and include all of this Order's disclosure requirements.

(a) Any such proposal for services lacking the affirmation and disclosure requirements of this Order will not be considered.
(b) Any such proposal where the performance of services is proposed to be provided at a location outside the United States by the contractor or any sub-contractor, will not be considered.
iii. All procurement manuals, directives, policies, and procedures reflect the requirements of this Order.

iv. All APOs have adequate training which addresses the terms of this Order.

5. Exceptions. Nothing in this Order is intended to contradict any state or federal law. In addition, this Order does not apply to:

a. Services necessary to support the efforts of the Department of Development Global Markets Division to attract jobs and business to the State of Ohio, including incidental services for the support of trade missions, payment of international staff, and services necessary for the operation of international offices.

b. Academic, instructional, educational, research or other services necessary to support the international missions of Ohio's public colleges and universities.

6. I signed this Executive Order on August 6, 2010 in Columbus, Ohio and it will not expire unless rescinded.

__________________________________

Ted Strickland, Governor


ATTEST:


_________________________________________
Jennifer Brunner, Secretary of State

[Botany]

118. FYI Jenny Brunner

Sec. of State J.B.,

Way to go! Now that is how you do things. Keep the Jobs and Money @ home.

Tell Ted thanx next time you see him. Nice to see your name on the order too.

tom

Thanks, Tom.

Jennifer

Jennifer Brunner
Sent via my mobile device

[ChromeFoundry]

26. Humm, not seeing the part...

that states that we have to send state government jobs overseas.

This ban does not deny any locally-established foreign-owned companies that will do the work here from bidding on these contracts. Take for instance the recent TATA bullshit deal that Gov. Ted allowed, and the 400 L-1 visa holders working right here in Ohio. They are a locally-established supplier.

[leveymg]

38. It doesn't say that outsourcing is mandatory. Just that gov't can't discriminate in the granting of

contracts for most goods and services.

[pampango]

40. India never signed the Government Procurement Agreement. ""Currently, forty WTO Members are covered

by the WTO Agreement on Government Procurement. These comprise: Canada; the European Communities, including its 27 member States; Hong Kong, China; Iceland; Israel; Japan; Korea; Liechtenstein; the Kingdom of the Netherlands with respect to Aruba; Norway; Singapore; Switzerland and the United States."" No India.

http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/gproc_e/overview_e.htm

I think Canada is the only country with which we have mutually nondiscriminatory access to state/provincial and local procurement contracts.

"The recent 2010 Canada-US Agreement on Government Procurement (Canada-US AGP) is a ground-breaking development in government procurement in North America. For the first time, the provinces in Canada have agreed to be covered by an international trade agreement on government procurement."

"The 2010 Agreement

Three main elements

• Permanent market access for Canadian companies to sub-federal US government procurements that are subject to the WTO-AGP. Thirty-seven US states are already covered by the WTO-AGP. In exchange, US companies get permanent access to provincial and territorial markets (except Nunavut).

• Temporary commitments: Canadian companies will be exempt from the “buy American” provisions of the Recovery Act with regard to seven US infrastructure projects in all 50 states. In exchange, US companies receive access to certain provincial/territorial agencies and municipalities not included in the WTO-AGP (to 30 September 2011).

• A commitment to explore the scope for a long-term government procurement agreement between Canada and the US. The Canadian and US governments have expressed the hope that this would result in commitments beyond those in the WTO-AGP and the NAFTA.

http://www.whoswholegal.com/news/features/article/28544/canada-us-agreement-ground-breaking-deal-heralds-major-changes-provincial-contracting/

Per Public Citizen:

"U.S. Appendix I to the WTO AGP lists various exceptions, notes which U.S. states are exempt from the rules, and sets monetary thresholds (i.e. projects below these funding thresholds are exempt from WTO rules).

http://www.citizen.org/trade/article_redirect.cfm?ID=18343

Even if some (most?) states are covered by the AGP-WTO, that doesn't help India since it never joined. It has never tried to join, I assume because it doesn't want to offer nondiscriminatory access to its own procurement contracts.

[Vincardog]

46. Was Ohio a party to that agreement? While Indian officials have objected to his actions, they have

admitted they do not have a case

[pampango]

51. India wasn't even a party to the agreement. n/t

[leveymg]

53. Please See Response 49, above, and link.

There's an annex to this WTO agreement that lists the U.S. states covered. Ohio is not among them. My error.

http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/gproc_e/appendices_e.htm#taipei

[DeSwiss]

54. I think you're mistaken......

From the article: "Strickland said in his letter to Kirk that while Indian officials have objected to his actions, they have admitted they do not have a case in the World Trade Organization (WTO) because his executive order does not violate any trade agreement with India."

- If they had a case, you can bet they'd be pressing it......


on edit: spelling

[Greyhound]

69. One of our race to the bottom advocates!

Thankfully, and to quote President Eisenhower, "Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

[leveymg]

71. Not one bit. I'm saying don't overlook the primary source of the problem and blame scapegoats.

Please see post #61, where I explain that, above.

[pampango]

75. Or "you negotiate, sign and comply with agreements until you negotiate changes or withdraw

from an agreement." I think that Obama's strategy for dealing with international problems is to negotiate until agreement is reached, sign, then live up to the agreement. This is a big change from Bush's "cowboy diplomacy" which gave the US the right to ignore international agreements or parts thereof, if they were not consistent with whatever he wanted to do.

Kind of makes it harder to pursue a foreign policy based on international negotiations if other countries get the idea that we are going to unilaterally ignore the parts we don't like after the fact while expecting them to live up to the parts they don't like.

[Greyhound]

80. And here's the other.

The state of Ohio can neither negotiate nor withdraw from this agreement, and if they were to wait for this administration to do so our great-grand children would be living in maquiladoras and looking for stray pets and rodents to eat.

It may well be the states that have return this nation to some semblance of sanity since our central government is obviously never going to mess with the global parasites.

[pampango]

88. Interesting thought. Kind of applying the theory Arizona uses in immigration to trade agreements.

"If the federal government won't do it, we'll do it ourselves."

[Greyhound]

105. As misguided and specifically directed at the wrong people as it is, yes.

Another example of people reaching the limit of their patience. Arizona has been screaming about this issue for 30 years while the federal government has ignored them, now the crazies have money and a microphone and they're using them.

This is why I say that we will get change but it will be to our great detriment that our side is not directing that change.

[leveymg]

87. If you have the most to lose, it makes sense to comply with the rules of the game

Also, in trade negotiations and treaties, few things are left to chance. Most of these agreements don't contain many unintended loopholes. It's very significant that Annex 2 to the U.S. Exceptions has (I count) 12 U.S. states that are fully exempted from the Agreement on Government Procurement, of which Ohio is the first to assert its apparent right to assert this power over state contracts.

Nonetheless, I believe our energies that go to hounding the Indians would be better spent trying to come to grips with U.S.-based companies that have been strategically moving their operations offshore for three decades. The MNCs account for most of the recent jobs eliminations, and that is more strategic than cyclical.

I would suggest that the U.S. has an un-exercised trump card in current and recent amendments to the U.S. Tax code. Not many Americans are even aware of the revisions signed into law a few weeks ago -- HR 1586, foreign tax credit reform -- that close some of the loopholes used by multinationals to shift assets and evade U.S. taxes. Smart, vigorous enforcement is a powerful potential incentive to force these corporations to shift operations back to the U.S., recapturing lost jobs that would otherwise be offshored. Application of dormant anti-trust powers is another lever that could be used.

[avaistheone1]

122. Did you read this?> >How to Make an American Job Before It's Too Late: Andy Grove

Andy Grove, is A senior adviser to Intel, was the company’s chief executive officer or chairman from 1987 until 2005.


.snip
Offshore Production
Consider this passage by Princeton University economist Alan S. Blinder: “The TV manufacturing industry really started here, and at one point employed many workers. But as TV sets became ‘just a commodity,’ their production moved offshore to locations with much lower wages. And nowadays the number of television sets manufactured in the U.S. is zero. A failure? No, a success.”
I disagree. Not only did we lose an untold number of jobs, we broke the chain of experience that is so important in technological evolution. As happened with batteries, abandoning today’s “commodity” manufacturing can lock you out of tomorrow’s emerging industry.
Our fundamental economic beliefs, which we have elevated from a conviction based on observation to an unquestioned truism, is that the free market is the best economic system -- the freer, the better. Our generation has seen the decisive victory of free-market principles over planned economies. So we stick with this belief, largely oblivious to emerging evidence that while free markets beat planned economies, there may be room for a modification that is even better…

Financial Incentives
The first task is to rebuild our industrial commons. We should develop a system of financial incentives: Levy an extra tax on the product of offshored labor. (If the result is a trade war, treat it like other wars -- fight to win.) Keep that money separate. Deposit it in the coffers of what we might call the Scaling Bank of the U.S. and make these sums available to companies that will scale their American operations. Such a system would be a daily reminder that while pursuing our company goals, all of us in business have a responsibility to maintain the industrial base on which we depend and the society whose adaptability -- and stability -- we may have taken for granted.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-01/how-to-make-an-american-job-before-it-s-too-late-andy-grove.html

[happyslug]

84. In a letter to his brother about Social Security and other items

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/ike.asp

Copy of Actual Letter the quote is from:
http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/presidential-papers/first-term/documents/1147.cfm

[Romulox]

97. Aren't you one, too???

"This strategy of brow-beating consumers into supporting our oppressors (i.e. Union Made US Cars) won't work" (parenthetical comment mine)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9179850&mesg_id=9180611

How else to interpret the above? :shrug:

[Greyhound]

101. I would hope that you interpreted it as a call for union members to direct their

efforts on forcing what remains of their leadership to take actions to eliminate the cause of their problems, rather than generating more prejudice against them with people that have no control over how the unions are getting screwed.

The UAW's problems are not due to GM's (former?) lack of sales*, they are due to the UAW's (and others as well, but this was the salient union in that thread) complete absence from any movement to break the hobbles that make their member's power irrelevant. Union's only have one tool at their disposal in negotiating with ownership, that being the right withhold their labor and force losses on the owners. Taft-Hartley eliminated this, but when was the last time you heard any high level union executive even talk about how they were taking steps to rid us of this abomination?

When union members become so focused on nothing beyond keeping their own jobs at the expense of their brother's and sister's, they end up playing right into the owner's hands, and we see the results, shrinking membership, reduced standards, and open hostility toward the organization from the very people they should be working to benefit. Labor is superior to capital but the unions seem to have lost sight of this.

Now you can accuse me of an isolationist view and we can debate the merits of that, but I'm diametrically opposed to the race to the bottom.



*Remember when GM was turning record profits year after year and instead of investing those profits in making better vehicles, improving working conditions, and innovating their industry, they bought mortgage companies, department stores, financial services companies, etc.

[Romulox]

126. No. I read it as a rather defensive excuse for not supporting labor.

One that would work if applied to ANY union, by the way.

[Greyhound]

127. Well that's too bad because; 1. I stated that UAW was used because of the OP

but that all were following the same path to failure and...

2. that this strategy of attacking people that have nothing to do with the problems of workers only results in more ill will against unions.

But hey, knock yourself out, keep playing the rigged game that can only end one way.

[Romulox]

128. What you just posted is called a "justification". The point is, you don't stand with workers.

And then you want to point your fingers at others regarding a "race to the bottom"? It's so hard for me to understand why people such as yourself aren't more embarrassed by blatant hypocrisy. :shrug:

[Greyhound]

129. Just like the doctor that tells you that you have to stop eating too much and excersise

stands in favor of heart disease (or stands against good health).

Union members are allowing the disease to keep spreading while the more and more of the body dies.

My BIL is an ignorant boob that is obscenely proud of the fact that after 15+ years in construction he is making a whopping $18 p/hr with no benefits and has never been in a union. Why does he hate unions so much? Why aren't the unions out there showing him how much better off he'd be with them? All he knows is that the guys he knows that do belong to the union aren't getting more than he is, but they are paying their dues. He sees no benefit.

Even if nobody bought non-union built cars, GM would still be screwing you, as we've seen. As long as it is legal for them to get around unions, they will. And they'll happily pocket all the financial benefits of doing so.

But you'd rather yell at customers.

[AdHocSolver]

125. Time to get rid of WTO, and NAFTA, the IMF, the World Bank, and the Fed. nt

[ChromeFoundry]

28. K & R (big-one) n/t

[avaistheone1]

32. Strickland for President

:kick: :patriot: :kick:

[Populist_Prole]

33. First good news I've heard today

...And yes, I'm sure all the corporate media and chamber of commerce types will be railing about how the governer is against capitalism blah blah blah

[herbm]

37. Send Walmart to India and keep jobs here. Bravo, Ohio. "Right shoring" jobs is offshoring jobs.

[Kermitt Gribble]

39. Go Ted!!

Now we need 49 other states to follow Gov. Strickland's lead.

[emilyg]

42. Good.

[JDPriestly]

43. This is an important first step.

I'm not sure about the legality of this, but it certainly demonstrates how Americans feel about outsourcing, hiring from abroad, and the next topic which will be -- too many imports.

[JVS]

As much as it pains me to say this as a Steeler fan: WAY TO GO OHIO!

[Guilded Lilly]

47. grin...

proudly born and raised in Pittsburgh, but a multi-decade resident of the Buckeye State...I I hear you! :)

[OnionPatch]

67. I grew up in eastern Ohio

and everyone I knew was a huge Steelers fan, so the fan base definitely extends beyond the PA border.

[Raschel]

44. Yay Ted!

[Guilded Lilly]

45. As an Ohioan who backed Strickland bigtime...

this is not a surprise at all. Strickland has been one of the few politicians that have given me continued hope.

He is well loved around my part of Northeast Ohio.
He is passionately supported here as well.
There ARE brilliant liberals/progressives/Democrats in Ohio who have made bigtime noise and blue-tinged changes in the last few years here.

Peace,
Lilly

[DesertFlower]

50. good. nt

[DeSwiss]

55. K&R! n/t

[JohnWxy]

57. RECOMMENDED! We're in a depression for christsake. Spend the money at home!

[davidwparker]

58. K&R

[EnviroBat]

59. And to think that asshole Kasich is still leading in the polls.

What the FUCK is wrong with this state? I hate it here!

[bulloney]

85. Plus, Rob Portman is leading Lee Fisher in the race for Voinovich's Senate seat.

Portman was USTR and OMB director under Bush II. In this age when you can be disqualified from a job for smoking pot 30 years ago, this guy could be our next U.S. Senator with a background that includes record budget and trade deficits under the worst administration in the last 100 years, if not the entire history of the U.S.

I'm with you EnviroBat. We're still feeling the effects of the worst recession since the Great Depression, brought on by policies supported by these clowns. Yet, they're holding comfortable leads in their respective races. And it's not like Ohio has been immune to the effects of the current recession.

[OhioChick]

62. Go Ohio!!!!! K&R!!!! n/t

[florida08]

63. See Obama

this is how it's done.

[saigon68]

70. Nah he's too busy being bi-partisan w/ Boner

[Mnpaul]

66. Minnesota told the WTO to go f themselves

and required all US flags sold in Mn to be made in the US. The WTO didn't dare challenge that. Good for Ohio. Don't surrender your sovereignty to these a-holes.

[w4rma]

72. I don't remember voting for any of these WTO agreements.

Why should we, a democracy, adhere to these arbitrary rules made by people I never had a say in electing?

[pampango]

81. It would be nice to vote on everything. None of us voted on a peace treaty with Germany and Japan,

membership in the United Nations, the Social Security Act, etc. They all seemed to happen anyway.

Our agreements with the WTO, like those with the UN, are the result of negotiations. (There is not some small group of evil foreigners who meet secretly in Switzerland, come up with rules to screw the US, then forces us to sign and abide by these nefarious rules.) The WTO (it was GATT in its early days) was the brainchild of FDR and Truman to promote international trade, so many of its provisions originated with American Democrats. It has been renegotiated several times since then and there are pending negotiation underway right now.

Many on the far right want us to withdraw from the UN because it infringes on our sovereignty. It limits our freedom of action. The WTO infringes on our sovereignty also in the sense that we agree, as do the other members, to follow certain rules in our dealings with each other. It limits our freedom of action.

[MikeW]

100. Ohio was not one of the states listed in the WTO agreement

states and what they agreed to are listed individually in those documents.

[ProudDad]

93. But Bill Clinton told us this was great stuff for the "economy" (n/t)

[ej510]

73. If only the federal Government will folow suit!

[Capt. America]

74. Sadly, he will lose this fall. Ohio is a GOP state that elects Dems only when Rethugs screw up, see

Bush and Taft.

[lafayettelonewolf]

124. Not so fast, Capt.

We need to get out the vote EVERYWHERE!!!! And I mean EVERYWHERE. This is what the Repigs want us to do...panic! Panic, worry, scared...shall I go on? This is all about getting the truth out as to what the GOP will do if they win big in November. But we all have the power to stop it from happening. We need to organize, mobilize, and strategize. That's how we beat them back in '06 & '08. You just gotta remember: Rome wasn't built in a day and none of us was born last night.

[lark]

90. K&R x 100000

God I love this, someone showing some common sense about helping the working people - I JUST LOVE IT!!

:pals:

[ProudDad]

92. Now THAT's what we're talking about!

and even if it were against GATT or WTO -- FUCK 'EM!

They don't have a freakin' army, fuck 'em!

Well, other than the USAmerikan Imperial Legions :shrug:

[Steve20]

95. good move

[burnsei sensei]

96. Amen.

There's a sharp state looking out for its enlightened self interest.
I wish enlightened self-interest was more popular.
But then, it's kind of like honesty.

[markmyword]

98. Ohio no longer outsourcing jobs.

It's about time that someone stood up for the American workers
and said NO MORE OUTSOURCING OF AMERICAN JOBS. These aren't
jobs that an American company is outsourcing, these are STATE
jobs being shipped overseas.

THANK YOU Governor Strickland for standing up for the Ohio
workers.  EVERY Governor in this country should be doing the
same thing. Where are the House and Senate on this issue?
Every politician should be behind Governor Strickland. 

[laughingliberal]

99. May he be the first of many! Get to the polls and elect progressives at the State & Local levels!

Yes, we can build a progressive movement from the ground up!

[Little Star]

102. This is good talk to hear. Hope more states do the same!

[indimuse]

103. KNR! n/t

[mother earth]

104. Ohio rocks! This ought to be a given, why aren't all states, and

all corporations on board with this during these economic times? Don't they love their country?

[zbdent]

106. ironically, the "Save Our Jobs" rally recently held in Canton Ohio

featured a bag full of goodies ... manufactured NOT IN THE USA ...

Big surprise was that the "Save Our Jobs" rally was funded by ENERGY GROUPS ... and bussed in all kinds of "employees" who were told to attend or be fired ...

[Omaha Steve]

108. K&R

[Faux pas]

110. EXCELLENT!!!!! :) :) :).....

[Divine Discontent]

111. Tell your Ohio friends! Strickland is honorable, the old paid-for hack against him is free trade,

neo-con, tool of the GOP...

Kasich... BLECH!!!! I met him, he's just as annoying in person.

[McCamy Taylor]

112. Does this mean all other state governments ship jobs overseas?

[lovuian]

114. God Bless that man

He is a true an American

[bertman]

116. 'bout time. Rec. nt

[scentopine]

117. Well done, Gov. Strickland! -nt

[colsohlibgal]

119. Proud Of My Governor

Way to stick to your guns, Ted. He's way too republican lite for me over all, but I applaud him on this matter.

[Waiting For Everyman]

123. I am impressed. Finally, someone with a spine. 'Common sense' is exactly right.

This is actually encouraging to me. Somebody somewhere did something right. I think outsourcing government jobs should be CRIMINAL.