Offering teachers bonuses for student growth didn't raise scores, study finds

[denverbill]

Source: Washington Post

WASHINGTON — A study released Tuesday found that offering teachers annual bonuses of up to $15,000 had no effect on student test scores — a result likely to inflame debate about performance-pay programs sprouting in schools nationwide.

The study suggests that teachers already were working so hard that the lure of extra money failed to induce them to intensify their efforts or change methods of instruction. The experiment, in Nashville, Tenn., public schools, calls into question a key aspect of market-driven initiatives to improve schools that have become the vogue in some education circles.

"Pay reform is often thought to be a magic bullet," said Matthew Springer, a Vanderbilt University education professor who led the study. "That doesn't appear to be the case here. We need to develop more thoughtful and comprehensive ways of thinking about compensation. But at the same time, we're not even sure whether incentive pay is an effective strategy for improving the system itself."

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Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_16139066

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Imagine that. Surprise, surprise. I thought all teacher got into the business to make oodles of money.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YvonneCa]

4. Most do. MOST are not bad teachers. That spin is just...

...to make the case for reform.

As tp 'silent reading'...in mt distirct itwas district-wide and ENFORCED, even when teachers sais it was unproductive. I'd be careful about stereotyping allteachers based on such limited experience.

And welcometo DU. :)

[EstimatedProphet]

5. Yours should have done their job

But then it is difficult to teach people that are genetically stupid.

[mediaman007]

2. What did they think they were going to get?

Next they will try to bribe students to get good grades. Students will get good grades, make money and still fall short on the tests.

The wrong people are working on a make-believe problem. The problem is not education. The problem is poverty. When teachers analyze results, they always find a direct correlation between low scores and free and reduced lunch participants. Poverty is the elephant in the room. Until students have a pre school life experience that gets them ready for kindergarten, results will continue to be poor.

[bread_and_roses]

13. exactly. this "reform" is just a diversion from the real problems

which our administration is studiously avoiding.

[mbperrin]

14. Thank you!

This is exactly the problem.

[Igel]

16. They find a number of direct correlations.

Thing is, there are a lot of variables that mostly function as stand-in for others.

Race is important. But that's because blacks/Latinos are disproportionately poor. Ah, so it's poverty. Well, yeah, but poor people tend to have lower educational levels. So it's really the educational level of the parents? Well, yeah, but most people with sucky educations didn't much like school or had really disruptive environments. So it's back to the parents and to poverty? Yeah, but . . .

I discount race of 99% of the correlation. White communities with the same kind of SES issues as black communities "look" the same when it comes to test scores, graduation rates, college attendance. There are differences for Latinos, but factor in English as a second language and there you are. It used to be different.

The poverty/education tie is harder to unravel, until you look at *how* lower education levels by poor kids are locked in place. Then it turns on culture and to a great extent that's education: Educated parents treat their kids differently from how uneducated parents treat their kids; educated parents have different expectations not just in what they say but in what they do. Poor PhDs are different from equally poor high-school graduates and their kids are different. Moreover, educated parents have fewer kids--leading to lower poverty rates if you hold family income constant, and skewing the numbers so that it looks like poverty is more important than it is.

Race, poverty, culture, education are all linked in the US in ways that they're not in many other countries. Each contributes to the overall outcome for students, but in how the students do in isolation and how they interact with the curriculum and school discipline codes. For example, it's been pointed out that much of public school culture has traditionally reflected white middle-class values, so non-middle class students and non-whites might be expected to do worse; the language used in schools is standard American English. Etc.

[Francesca9]

3. The point of higher pay is to attract different people

When the pay goes up, some people will look twice at teaching that now do not.

This will lead to more competition for jobs. IF the selection is done well, only then might higher pay help.

[groundloop]

6. HOWEVER, your argument totally ignores the other half of the equation - STUDENTS

If students aren't prepared to learn, they won't learn (and won't perform on standardized tests). And by "prepared to learn" I am including all aspects of what can affect their ability in the classroom - coming to school well nourished, getting enough sleep, getting help with schoolwork at home, parents encouraging students to do well, parents setting a good example, not being overwhelmed by external worries, etc. etc. etc. And it's pretty darned obvious that a lot of this relates to students socio-economic condition. The greatest teacher in the world won't be able to work miracles on kids who have a crappy home life, unsupporting parents, and who are sitting in the classroom hungry.

[Francesca9]

7. Most students can learn

I've discovered that effective teaching helps the D & C students the most. The top students need an effective teacher the least.

That is just my experience, maybe there are lots of schools where none of the students can be helped by effective teachers.

[jsamuel]

9. then just raise the salaries

no need for merit pay if the goal is to attract better teachers

[denverbill]

11. Well, considering that most conservatives think teachers are overpaid already,

I don't think that's going to happen.

The current mantra among conservatives and neo-liberals is that teachers will work harder to do a good job if they get extra money. The results of this clearly show that getting a bonus didn't matter. Teachers teach the same way and put in the same level of effort every year and try to do a good job. Bad teachers will rarely become good teachers because of a possible bonus, and good teachers won't become great for a little extra cash.

If you want to hire nothing but great teachers, make the base salary competitive with engineers or lawyers or think tank economists. Make high school kids WANT to grow up to be teachers. I know a lot of bright kids go into teaching for the love of teaching, but a lot of other bright kids reject it outright because it's a hard job that gets little respect and won't make you rich.

[BillH76]

15. No it isn't. Merit pay does not apply to new hires.

So the "different people" have to apply for teaching jobs on spec--hoping that they can teach better than experienced teachers. And what would give them that idea? How could they possibly know, unless they are already teachers, in which case merit pay won't improve their performance?

[Igel]

18. Yes, but it hasn't panned out right.

Wages have gone up in many areas, with no obvious consequence.

There's the counterargument that the pay increases still don't make teacher salaries competitive with private sector salaries. On the other hand, getting that bio major to go into teaching instead of grad school, applied scientist, or med school is not going to be cheap.

[harun]

8. Maybe if we gave teachers summers off they wouldn't be working too

hard to care about incentives?

:hide:

[zogofzorkon]

10. Thinking of children as a product to meet some test score is more

likely the cause. There was a time when schools offered a vocational track.... there was a time when plumbers. electricians, lathe operators and auto mechanics were taught the basic skills of there trade. Now there are no mfg jobs, most new construction relies on undocumented non union workers, and labor in general is scorned. There are however the same proportion of children who can tear down and rebuild an engine blindfolded but have no desire, and perhaps no ability, to read short stories, no where Haiti is or find the area of triangle.

On the other hand if Wall Street is any indicator the teachers' certainly deserves a performance bonus; if they manage to totally destroy public education, an even bigger one.

[bemildred]

12. Ya think?

Maybe the "improvements" are not, and money won't change that.

[BillH76]

17. Good thing they did this study. But it will be ignored. (n/t)

Still, we know.