Imam: NYC mosque site is not 'hallowed ground'

[sabra]

Source: AP

NEW YORK — The imam leading the effort to build an Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero says there is a "misperception" that the proposed site is sacred ground.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf said Monday that the location where the center would be built, two blocks from the World Trade Center, has a strip joint and betting parlors nearby. He says it's "absolutely disingenuous" to suggest that it is "hallowed ground."

He also says the location is important, because it will serve as a platform where the voice of moderate Muslims can be amplified.

Rauf make his remarks before the Council on Foreign Relations.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jEincsjPzkZo6_gBr4jVuVlkB_OwD9I72H401

[Bleacher Creature]

1. I disagree.

It is a very important place for those of us that like to purchase discounted outerwear.

[Bonhomme Richard]

11. And Porn. n/t

[dkf]

2. Hallowed ground is in the eye of the beholder I would say.

And I'm not sure if him saying it is not helps any

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. You are problably right about that (though I agree with him)

[dkf]

14. For some time a lot of areas had flowers placed on the side of our roads where a person died.

It got a bit out of hand and I think the Govt had to stop it. But that is definitely hallowed ground to those that were laying memorials.

[David__77]

32. He should have said it is not being treated as "hallowed ground."

I think a house of worship is less unseemly than the other commercial crap there, that's for certain. He made a very good point in that regard though.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. The eye of the beholder can't see two blocks away.

[totodeinhere]

3. Will the "voice of moderate Muslims be amplified?"

Or will it be a front for extremism? That is the question.

[Vincardog]

5. You forgot the :sarcasm: Smilie

[totodeinhere]

16. Oh I thought it was obvious. n/t

[Vincardog]

4. I agree with the IMAM. Hallowed ground my ass. I want to see a clip of someone walking around the

'sacred' block.

[jberryhill]

19. Google Streetview /nt

[burnsei sensei]

6. I agree.

It was hallowed before.
This controversy has profaned it thoroughly.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. He is right..as shown by the Strip Joints and OTB offices next door.

This outrage is totally manufactured by the repukes and tbaggers for political purposes. Much as it pains me, I have to agree with Bloomberg...all the dust will disappear right after the election.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

43. I feel your pain ...

Bloomberg making sense. It makes me want to kick something.

And then my toe hurts.

:hi:

[no_hypocrisy]

8. If it truly were "hallowed ground", then:

1) There wouldn't be replacement commercial construction going on, and
2) the Federal Government would exercise eminent domain to ensure that nothing but parks or a monument would be built on that piece of property.

[Dappleganger]

10. Wrong.

And he doesn't get to make that distinction so he is out of line. BTW, I support his right to build a mosque wherever it is legally allowed but his statement is the one which is "absolutely disingenuous."

[Karenina]

26. Hallowed ground, my ass.

As a New Yorker his opinion is worth more than yours. BTW, ever been there?

[Dappleganger]

35. Yes I have.

Why is his opinion worth more than mine? That is certainly most-undemocratic of you to say.

We went to see the site about four years ago with relatives from my husband's side (his 2nd cousin was there on that day). It was one of the most unnerving experiences I've every had.

[Karenina]

39. He LIVES there.

[Xithras]

36. Why doesn't he get to make the distinction? He's as American as you or I.

Or does his opinion not count because he's Muslim?

A site is only "hallowed" if people consider it so. He's people. He doesn't consider it so. For what it's worth, neither do I (it's the site of a tragedy, but "hallowed"? That's just dumb).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

51. how so?

[corkhead]

12. I am most concerned with how this site has been mistakenly referred to as affiliated with

the hallowed former site of Burlington Industries, the defunct maker of textile products, where it was acually the hallowed ground of the Burlington Coat Factory, a department store that specialized in shoes and outerwear.

[brendan120678]

13. LOL...yes, BCF adverts are always sure...

to include that, aren't they.

[dkf]

17. If someone were to murder you there would your family consider it hallowed ground?

Would anyone? Or would they say oh that was just a crappy former store. It means nothing to me.

[dmallind]

27. So any murder now has a 2.5 block radius of sanctity?

The whole idea of "hallowed ground" is superstitious woo from beginning to end, but at least some people know when it becomes ridiculous superstitious woo..

[dkf]

29. What does it matter if you or I think it's nonsense? It's still real to them.

Being sensitive to bereavement is normal social behavior.

[Xithras]

38. Sensitivity to bereavement normally comes with chronological limits.

The normal bereavement process culminates in the acceptance of the loss and a period of "moving on". When someone is still in the grief process of bereavement nearly a decade after suffering a loss, it's often a symptom of a psychological issue that needs to be addressed by a therapist. I'm not quite sure how you give therapy to an entire COUNTRY, but the bereavement process after 9/11 somehow short circuited.

We've had disasters, accidents, and attacks throughout history. Normally, we grieve our losses, bury our dead, dust ourselves off, repair the damage, and move on with life. With 9/11, we seem to be stuck in "grieving" mode. That is neither normal nor healthy.

[No Elephants]

42. And geographical.

Sorry, but I've had it with 911 worship. And I don't think we're doing the survivors any favors, making it seem that these were the most special deaths in the history of humankind.

OF COURSE, I feel very bad about the casualties, especially the first responders. They were heroes. But so were so many first responders, soldiers, sailors, etc.

People other than first responders were not heroes, but very unfortunate victims doing nothing better or worse that day but going to work, as per usual, at places like Cantor Fitzgerald. Yes, I feel horrible for them, but I also feel horrible for anyone who dies a sudden, untimely death, including my own mother.

Her place of deach is no more or less hallowed than anyone else's place of death including the WTC, but I don't get to make zoning law about it for the rest of eternity. No one gave me a few million when she passed either. . No one gave me a few million when she passed either.

In Massachusetts, they just named a United States Post Office for a 31 year old who had worked at Cantor Fitzgerald. No one mentioned anything else that warranted that kind of honor, besides showing up for work at Cantor Fitzgerald that day.

Time for some perspective, IMO.

[LostinVA]

44. I posted an OP about this very thing a few weeks ago

Fantastic post.

[Nihil]

47. Two good posts there ...

Thanks to both of you (Xithras and No Elephants).
:toast:

[No Elephants]

40. Not under all circumstances. And you have no way of judging what is or is not "real" to someone else

The Center was front pages news all over the Greater NY area over a year ago. It voluntarily underwent a lengthy approval process. No one objected--NO ONE--until Republicans ginned it as an election season issue, another way to use the Muslim bit against Obama. And Democratic survivors seem to feel very differently than do Republican survivors. Seems about as real as Rush Limbaugh.

If my loved one gets killed somewhere, I have nothing to say about how that spot gets used, much less blocks away. Enough is enough.

[dmallind]

48. Since when did "sensitivity" include zoning laws?

What about the sensitivity to the Muslims who died or those who couldn't give a toss one way or the other who dies? Why is it always sensitivity to the most poutraged and biogoted that is needed?

[Karenina]

49. It's predicated on the American backdrop

of white supremacy.

[provis99]

33. so what will you do about the strip joints and betting parlours?

or is their kind of stuff ok on "hallowed ground"?

[RandiFan1290]

41. How hard did you work

to have the mosque removed from inside the World Trade Center after the bombing in 1993? People died there too.

[Karenina]

45. Actually there were TWO prayer spaces in Tower 2

One on the 17th floor and another one near the top 164th IIRC. AND there is a prayer room in the Pentagon which is used daily...

[Codeine]

15. That's why I refer to it as the Financial District Mosque,

never the Ground Zero Mosque.

[groundloop]

18. The Senate needs to hold hearings to determine who's allowed to to delare a site hallowed

I'm confused. Who am I supposed to listen to in deciding if the former Burlington store is hallowed or not. Is a Muslim cleric qualified to decide if a site is hallowed or not? Newt Gingrich? Sarah Palin? Mayor Bloomberg?

The way I'm understanding this is that this former store is about 2 blocks from the World Trade Center site. Then, according to the Teabaggers, everything within 2 blocks of the World Trade Center site is hallowed, or an area 4 blocks by 4 blocks (2 blocks north, 2 blocks south, 2 blocks east and 2 blocks west), or 16 square blocks. How many buildings are in that area? Each of those building must be, according to Teabagger logic, sacred.

[jberryhill]

20. Not Even Honest Abe

"But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. "

[Mz Pip]

21. I don't even consider the actual site

of the WTC to be hallowed ground. What will be going into those newly constructed buildings Financial offices, insurance companies, a couple of ATM machines along with some bank branches, a resaurant with a bar?

Why are those things that are actually being build on the true 9/11 WTC site considered acceptable but an actual place for prayer and reflection over 2 blocks away some kind of sacriledge?

[slackmaster]

22. Who cares?

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

23. Most of the bigots holding this guy responsible for 9/11, pretty much. (nt)

[alp227]

24. Well DUH!

Why are those who claim that Ground Zero is "sacred ground" so much more concerned over that "false religion" of Islam being present nearby than those sinful places known as strip clubs?

[Dogmudgeon]

25. How DARE we desecrate the Burlington Coat Factory!

It's mentioned in the Bible, only the Bible called it "raiment".

--d!

[davepc]

28. The Pussycat Lounge is hallowed ground as far as im concerned!

NY Dolls too!

[Xenotime]

30. Well said! How long before the tea baggers claim all of Manhatten is 'hallowed ground'

[Turborama]

31. They think America is "hallowed ground"

That only "real Americans" are allowed to live in.

[provis99]

34. funny thing about tea baggers commenting on this:

they all look like the type of small town idiot who despises New York and New Yorkers, because that's where the Jews, blacks, and foreigners live. I'd love to ask one what they think of New York before asking him about the "hallowed ground".

[Bragi]

50. Good point

They probably think that the immediate ground zero are is "hallowed ground", while the rest of NYC is an abomination against .

[Jennicut]

46. The WTC plaza area can be "sacred ground" but 2 blocks away is getting

ridiculous. And if it was truly that sacred, would there be another high rise tower building going up? Nope, there would be only a memorial. You know, Connecticut lost 65 or so people that day because of the people that were commuters to work in the WTC. There was a simple memorial built in Westport along the beach and we were able to move on a bit better then NYC has. Maybe instead of trying to rebuild what once was, the city should have simply made it a very simple memorial area. Truly, the almighty buck matters to some the most. The businesses at the WTC found other locations. If there was a total memorial and was designated just in that one area, would we even be having this conversation? It could have been built a long time ago, it has been 9 years! The "freedom tower" was a bad idea.