Toyota Concedes 2 Flaws Caused Loss of Control

[Omaha Steve]

Source: NY Times

By NICK BUNKLEY

DETROIT — Toyota said Wednesday that its investigation of about 2,000 vehicles reported to experience sudden acceleration found evidence that sticking accelerator pedals and interference by floor mats — the subjects of two big recalls — did indeed cause some of the incidents.

It is the first time since the recalls that Toyota has acknowledged that its internal review, which is continuing, had found sudden-acceleration complaints to be valid. The carmaker did not disclose how many of the incidents were caused by the sticky pedals and floor mats.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 3,000 complaints about sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles and is conducting its own examination of them. The agency said in a statement on Wednesday that it had reached “no conclusions” about the causes.

A Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said the company’s investigation involved inspections of the vehicles and downloading data from onboard recorders if a crash occurred. Mr. Michels said the investigation found sticking accelerator pedals in a small number of vehicles and a larger number with floor mats that interfered with pedals.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/business/global/15toyota.html

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Steve Hockstein/Bloomberg News

A technician displayed a modified accelerator pedal, left, and the original recalled pedal.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. To have them admit anything isn't much...but it is a start. (nt)

[Atman]

2. We wouldn't buy this line of crap from the DOD investigating itself...

There is no reason to believe a word of this self "investigation" by Toyota of itself. Toyota, like the Department of Defense, is a for-profit corporation (okay, not exactly like the DOD, but I couldn't resist). As such, it is chartered for the sole purpose of returning profits to shareholders. And when you grow as big as Toyota, the bean counters and lawyers call most of the shots in order to protect the company from shareholder lawsuits. Toyota has shown to be acting more like BP than the responsible, respectable company so many loyalists make them out to be. They were/are looking out for the bottom line, nothing more. That's what giant corporations do.

BTW, I'd love to know how they downloaded information about sticking floor mats.

EDIT TO ADD: I obviously read this differently than the first responder. I don't see any real admission of fault from Toyota at all. These excuses -- floor mats and pedals -- are the same line they've been repeating since the beginning. That is, the cheapest for them to repair. I don't see anything about the claims of faulty software and/or electronics, a far more likely (and costly) explanation considering the drive-by-wire design share by virtually all of the vehicles in question.

[pipoman]

3. The difference being

I haven't seen any of the literally thousands of independent engineers, mechanics, accident investigators, insurance companies, government agencies, or activist groups who has offered any explanation what so ever regarding a cause for these alleged reports. Certainly the person or group who isolates the cause would be not only a hero but a rich hero, yet alas, still no definitive cause. No group or individual has yet been able to recreate this phenomenon. Why? Because exactly like the Audi issue of the 1980's, the incidents which actually happened were mostly driver error, or carelessly allowing the mats to float around the floor area of the car. Many of the claims are no doubt bandwagoneering..

[Atman]

4. Here's the flaw in that argument, playing out in my office this very day...

They set us with Microsoft Entourage, which I hate but is actually better than Mac Mail for keeping track of ongoing workflow. So, for the past six weeks, two of the four art directors (me being one) have experienced repeated crashes with Entourage. Sometimes six or eight times in a day.

So, the IT guy as been in repeatedly, and been monitoring our computers continuously, and even has spent the last three days on one of the problem computers trying to replicate the problem. He can't do it. Neither mine nor my colleague's computer has experienced a problem since he's been in the office. This isn't the first time.

So what should he do? Leave and file a report like the one you point to, where there apparently isn't anything wrong because it didn't go wrong while he was there? That's the nature of SOFTWARE problems. They won't happen when you want them to just by sitting there waiting for them. That's why I call bullshit on this Toyota "investigation" and your defense of it.

.

[pipoman]

5. I'm defending nothing

I remember the Audi issue which ultimately after over a year turned out to be driver error. This issue is Audi II. Virtually every single make and model has reports of "unintended acceleration". The difference in your issue and this issue is that there are thousands of people spending hundreds of thousands of hours to no avail. Maybe your issue is user error? My understanding is that for this to occur the software controlling the speed control and the software controlling the brakes would have to malfunction simultaneously. I don't buy it.

Right now we will have to agree to disagree. If some electronic or mechanical issue is isolated I will be the first one to admit I am wrong, will you do the same if a report from TSA decides this is a driver error issue like the Audi issue was?

Have you looked at this report ranking vehicles with unintended acceleration reports? How would you explain this phenomenon?

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nhtsa-data-dive-3-117-models-ranked-by-rate-of-ua-incidents/

[creeksneakers2]

6. WSJ -Early Tests Pin Toyota Accidents on Drivers

The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that the throttles were wide open and the brakes weren't engaged at the time of the crash, people familiar with the findings said.


The U.S. Department of Transportation found that throttles were wide open and brakes not engaged on Toyotas involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration, said people familiar with the matter. Mike Ramsey discusses. Also, Joe White and Ashby Jones discuss the U.S. Court ruling striking down certain FCC rules against broadcast indecency.
The early results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyotas and Lexuses surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html?mod=WSJ_business_LeadStoryCollection

[Omaha Steve]

7. USA Today: Feds, Toyota deny they said what nobody said they said in acceleration fracas

There was another story about this in LBN last night. You must have missed that?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/07/feds-toyota-deny-they-said-what-nobody-said-they-said-in-acceleration-fracas/1

Jul 14, 2010

The government says it hasn't concluded that Toyota unintended acceleration cases all are due to driver error -- stomping the gas pedal instead of the brakes. Thing is, nobody said the government had reached such a conclusion.

And Toyota emphasized it wasn't claiming that all the complaints about unintended acceleration were due to so-called pedal misapplication. And in that case, too, nobody has said the automaker made such a claim.

Those denials of allegations not made shows how sensitive the unintended acceleration matter remains. They came Wednesday in the wake of media coverage about leaked information from the government probe showing evidence that in some cases the drivers did err.

Toyota has recalled 7.7 million vehicles in the U.S. to fix problems with gas pedals and floor mats that the automaker and the government agree can be blamed for some runaway cars and crashes.

But that doesn't cover all the acceleration complaints Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are sorting through. The obvious question: Whose fault were those other cases? Toyota's for a vehicle issue? Drivers for jamming the wrong pedal in a panic?

NHTSA, a unit of the Transportation Department, said Wednesday that its engineers continue to investigate, with help from the National Academy of Scientists and the space agency, NASA.

NHTSA noted that it didn't make public any information -- though nobody has said it did.

FULL story at link.

[Blandocyte]

8. So the faulty software in the "black boxes"

didn't record the faulty throttle control software failing? Could that be the case?

[sendero]

9. This isn't over...

.. this is just a story, it was not gas pedals or floor mats that cause some of these accidents.