Obama internet 'kill switch' proposed

[panzerfaust]

Source: Guardian (UK)

US President Barack Obama would be granted powers to seize control of and even shut down the internet under a new bill that describes the global internet as a US "national asset".

Local lobby groups and academics have rounded on the plan, saying that, rather than combat terrorists, it would actually do them "the biggest favour ever" by terrorising the rest of the world, which is now heavily reliant on cyberspace.

The proposed legislation, introduced into the US Senate by independent senator Joe Lieberman, who is chairman of the US Homeland Security committee, seeks to grant the President broad emergency powers over the internet in times of national emergency.

Titled "Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act", the bill stipulates any internet firms and providers must "immediately comply with any emergency measure or action developed" by a new section of the US Department of Homeland Security, dubbed the "National Centre for Cybersecurity and Communications".


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/obama-internet-kill-switch-proposed-20100618-yln6.html?autostart=1

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[no_hypocrisy]

1. This is Joe Lieberman's idea. Not Obama's.

[panzerfaust]

4. It is good to know the mind of God?

Irrespective of who's idea it might be (and I doubt that any of us are all that intimate with the thoughts of either President Obama or of Joey) it is not a good one & would (will) be yet another way in which America's Presidency can be a threat to democracy not only in our country, but the world.

[drm604]

11. Of course it's a horrible idea,

but the headline is misleading as hell. That's not your fault, you're just following the rules for Latest Breaking News, but it does need to be pointed out that there's no reason to believe that Obama supports this idea in any way.

A more objective headline would be something like "Presidential internet 'kill switch' proposed".

[dgibby]

5. Agreed.

I see no evidence in the article of the President's involvement in this, other than the fact that the bill would give the power to shut down the net to the POTUS, but that's generic, not specific to Obama.

[Art_from_Ark]

9. Well, considering that Obama has supported FISA,

indefinite detainment, the Patriot Act, ad nauseum, I can't see him vetoing this bill if it makes it to his desk.

[dgibby]

21. No argument there.

I was only commenting on the misleading headline.

If it ever gets to his desk and he doesn't veto it, then I'll criticize him, but not until.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. no shit. horrible title. misleading, stupid

and more.

[yurbud]

64. How often has Obama criticized anything Lieberman has said?

[Chulanowa]

86. How often has he had to?

Lieberman pretty much punches himself in hte face every time he opens his mouth, after all. We don't need the president to tell us the guy is an asshole to know that he's an asshole.

[Catherina]

79. Lieberman, Obama's mentor. Obama will support this n/t

[Jamastiene]

2. Should have known Lieberman was behind this.

Has he EVER done anything good? Or is he just a turd all the way?

[Frank Cannon]

19. I absolutely loathe that little motherfucking troll

I cannot believe that piece of shit was ever a candidate for Vice President.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. One has to wonder why he was chosen for the ticket

Sometimes, the President- Vice Presidential ticket has been a clash of personalities

William McKinley- Teddy Roosevelt
FDR-- John Nance Garner
Eisenhower-- Nixon
Kennedy-- Johnson
Gore-- Lieberman?

[corpseratemedia]

59. +100

[KamaAina]

69. Actually, I could believe that

if it had been for the repukes. And it nearly was. :puke:

[bemildred]

3. What a dumb ass. nt

[leveymg]

6. Five minutes after you first learn we've started bombing Iran, click . . . black screen.

Of course, it will be a VERY different Internet and America when they turn it back on. Hope you don't expect DU or any of your favorite progressive sites will still be there . . . Of course, you'll be able to get your news-like product from CNN, AP, NYT. Nothing will change there . . . this is a free country, after all!

[whatchamacallit]

31. +1

[mbperrin]

50. Yes, citizen, this is a free country, now move along, nothing to see

here.

AND enjoy the new choco ration!

[tclambert]

7. And what happens when a Bush-like Republican becomes President?

Or worse, Cheney-like? President Boehner, say. He has control of this kill switch? The Internet would be off more than on. Censorship would become the rule.

Bad, bad, bad idea.

So, how long 'til it passes?

[Chulanowa]

24. Why do you think Lieberman wants this?

He's not playing for our team anymore.

("Our" being "sane, rational mammals")

[Chisox08]

29. Traitor Joe was never on our team.

[glitch]

61. They've already seen the damage transparency can do (wikileaks, gaza flotilla)

The LAST thing fascists want is freedom of information.

[tomp]

66. yeah, democrats would never misuse govt power. nt

[Iowa]

67. What happens?

"And what happens when a Bush-like Republican becomes President?"

When it comes to civil liberties, that's pretty much what we have now. The future you speak of is already here.

[AndyA]

8. Um, no. Bad idea.

Communist China, anyone?

[area51]

55. +1

Also like China, our govt., like theirs, allows businesses to make defective products that kill and injure people. Also like China, their population has no right to health care, just like us. I suspect at least in these two incidences, it's because each country is overpopulated, and each of our governments don't have a vested interest in keeping their populations alive and healthy.

[cosmicone]

10. I don't think they can do it even if they want to ...

Root servers and DNS servers are now located all over the world. Obama may be able to shut off US based infrastructure but rest of it will go on.

Most large organizations already have mirror servers around the world so that a shutdown in the US won't affect their world-wide business.

[bemildred]

12. Exactly. nt

[drm604]

13. Exactly.

It may be feasible to shut down US backbones but it would be economically disastrous to do so.

A lot of phone traffic now goes over the internet so he would also be cutting off phone service to a lot of households. He'd also be cutting off financial transactions and, if I'm not mistaken, control of parts of the electrical grid, and who knows what else.

It's a terrible idea from anybody's viewpoint (other than our enemies), but that's to be expected from Lieberman.

[LiberalFighter]

45. This needs to get out to the voters in CT so they understand how senile the geezer is.

[canetoad]

53. I wish him good luck with that

Here's a map of DNS root servers (probably a bit old, I think there are more servers in Asia now).

[matt819]

25. Exactly - and that's frightening

These clowns are proposing ideas that have no connection with how the real world works. They don't understand the technology and the fact that millions of small businesses depend on the internet for their livelihood - selling products/services, processing payment, etc. Even as a trial balloon, this is utterly idiotic.

[snooper2]

36. They can't...I'm laughing just thinking about it

They call our company, hey, could you shut down the intertubes real quick

Us, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I guess Holy Joe doesn't know that there are "other" types of traffic on the Internet other than the Iranian porn sites he vists. We'll just tell all our VoIP customers, yeah, sorry we had to take our entire network down. Holy Joe's idea :rofl:

I guess they could shut down the peering centers but that still wouldn't do the trick, just be a pain in the ass.

[mwooldri]

57. Not. Possible. At. All.

Can't just kill the Internet. You kill the Internet, you kill regular phones and cell phones too. If the ground based Internet is killed then amateur radio operators can easily set up an alternative, if very slow, network to get information in and out of the USA. Unless those operations are forcibly shut down. Foreign powers can steer satellites to point over the USA and people can get satellite dishes pointing at these satellites to relay traffic through these, so satellite dishes would have to be banned too. Any domestic broadcaster, especially television broadcasters, can quite easily insert a data stream... and partner with another television station the other side of the border and have them send a data stream... so domestic television stations on the borders would have to be controlled by the military. oh and Blu-Ray discs can be mailed, smuggled over borders... it would be essentially hard to stop the Internet without turning us into a state akin to North Korea... and even then information does come in and out of North Korea, as it did in Nazi Germany.

I'm more afraid of some foreign power trying to find the under-the-sea fiber optic cables and deliberately breaking them than any US government "Internet Kill Switch".

[boppers]

83. Know your RFC's.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149

[mwooldri]

87. Memo from Dick Dastardley - "Get The Pigeon!" nt

[Egnever]

77. Agreed I dont think its possible.

Joementum doesn't know shit about the Internet though so it doesn't surprise me he would come up with such an ignorant plan

[FatDave]

78. Of course not.

The key phrase is "highly distributed". The damn thing was built to withstand full scale nuclear armageddon. Packets will route right around the US outage. Maybe a little slower, but not horribly so.

[Blandocyte]

14. So they'd install a knife switch in the power cable

that runs electricity to the internet, right? Is that 220 volts, 221? :rofl:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. You think HAL would mind?

[pinboy3niner]

20. I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

:evilgrin:

[I Have A Dream]

15. This is appalling.

:wtf: Are we trying to alienate everyone who may not already hate us?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. I suspect that outside of the US, remnants would

still survive. Only US servers would be affected. After all, it was designed to survive a nuclear attack in several locations.

Now, imagine the emotional impact on a nation as wired and intertubed as ours. Everything would stop. No ATMs, no credit card purchases, no banking, no telephone, no information. Rumors would spread faster than if Orson Wells had designed and scripted it. Given the hatred of government, even if the Govt came out with a "statement" would anyone believe them? I doubt it.

[Nihil]

30. The only way that it *wouldn't* survive outside the US borders ...

... would be if instead of just a "kill switch" on the US root servers,
it deployed a "poison pill" on the non-US root servers ...

Mind you, that wouldn't be a domestic action, it would be the first
offensive blow in a global cyberwar and, as noted upthread, the impact
of it on any country affected would be so severe as to justify any act
of retaliation that they wished to perform.

So, on the whole, not a particularly good idea ...

[KamaAina]

70. The Internet is designed to route around damage

up to and including nukes.

Keep in mind, it is also designed to interpret censorship as damage and attempt to route around it.

[I Have A Dream]

89. The article says the following...

"Unfortunately, too much of the core of the internet resides in the US - let's put it this way, they cannot shut down machines in Australia, but they can completely isolate us and shut down certain core functions like the DNS ... they can render the internet fairly useless for the rest of the world," he said.

In your opinion, do you think that this is a misrepresentation on this person's part?

[bemildred]

91. Yes, it is a misrepresentation on that person' part.

The rest of the world will get along fine without us. Isolating the US is sort of like shooting yourself in the foot. DNS will survive.

[Myrina]

38. I'm sure Joe's trying to head off the Wikileaks Massacre video ...

... what better way to still be able to tell America "we don't do stuff like that" than to be able to make sure none of us sees any evidence to the contrary?

:shrug:

[glitch]

62. So am I. And other videos of atrocities coming out.

Let's see now, who has been committing atrocities lately, and on whose behalf?

[redqueen]

22. "Obama" internet kill switch?

Did Obama tell Lieberman he wanted this? Why attach Obama's name to it?

[Chulanowa]

26. Quick formula for getting recs

1) Find bad news
2) Attach the president's name to it
3) Get recs out the wazoo
4) Fantasize that people think you're cool

[jonnyblitz]

68. LBN posting rules require you use the EXACT title used in the

article. stop embarassing yourself with your idiotic paranoia and learn the rules of this forum, asshole.

[Chulanowa]

75. A quick search on Teh Intarwebs reveals the same story in several places with more accurate title

Can't imagine it would have been hard to find one like "Internet 'Kill Switch' Proposed For President," or "Internet Kill Switch proposed for President to shut off Internet," or "Lieberman Proposes Internet "Kill Switch," or "The US government's internet 'kill switch'‎," or "PCNAA Bill Would Give President an "Internet Kill Switch," or "US senator defends plan to give president emergency Net authority‎"

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Is it your opinion that Obama would veto such a bill?

Funny you'd use the phrase 'attach Obama's name to it' because that is exactly what will have to happen for this to become law, correct? So you claim that Obama will not sign? Has he said so, or are you merely speculating?
Obama's name gets attached, the President sings a bill into law, you do know this, yes? So at a certain point, he will either attach that name or refuse to do so. Veto or sign.
Do you think he'd veto this, and if so, why do you think so?

[salguine]

41. Obama has certainly signed on to some monstrous shit since he's been in office. I can

easily imagine him going along with this.

[Barack_America]

43. Yes, apparently the law will also make Obama President forever!

[high density]

23. Lieberman internet kill switch proposed

Who writes this garbage?

[Richardo]

27. Another crap idea from Lieberman

Thank you, Guardian, for spinning it like it's Obama's idea.

[burnsei sensei]

28. Their logic is taken here from mere

science fiction--
He who can destroy a thing controls a thing.
This is just a petty power grab from an empire that knows it is in decline.
Now, when are we going to get back to all those commitments we mistakenly made 70 years ago?

[Beacool]

32. Terrible bill!!!

I hope that it doesn't get out of committee.

x(

[conspirator]

33. The internet is too dangerous for them the elites. I don't know how it still exists n/t

[superconnected]

42. You have an excellent point. It is a wonder it's gotten this far.

[1Hippiechick]

51. Internet will have to go underground. n/t

[Javaman]

34. Nice to know that freedom of speech has a kill switch. nt

[treestar]

37. In the first place, any President would have that power

Another irony is seeing all the demands that BP be nationalized due to an emergency.

Makes it a question of how this would be different (from the POV of those demanding BP nationalization).

[Occulus]

56. Comparing BP to the internet makes me certain you don't know jack about one of the two.

I'll leave it to other readers to decide which subject that is.

[okieinpain]

39. the answer for this should be "NO" n/t.

[superconnected]

40. Against. And my what false reporting to make it look like Obama's idea.

[LiberalFighter]

44. That scumbag is only 68 years old. So likely to run for re-election.

He's up for re-election in 2012. And hopefully the voters in CT are not happy with him.

[lunasun]

46. UK sure is drumming up alot of crap about Obama since the BP spill. eom

[grahamhgreen]

48. Definite over reach. No & WTF EPIC FAIL.

[Arkana]

49. Wow. Really misleading headline there.

And I suppose if a piece of scummy, authoritarian legislation was going to come from someone supposedly on our side, it would be from Holy Joe.

[pscot]

52. NO!

Joe just wants to get back at the netroots.

[w4rma]

54. LIEberman really does have Emperor Palpatine's mindset. (nt)

[liberal N proud]

58. Want to see an economy and country come to a screeching halt?

Pull the plug, everything stops. EVERYTHING!

:dunce:

[fascisthunter]

60. China

so much for Freedom

[glitch]

63. Not shutting it down, probably (although you can't tell with idiots) just blocking certain websites

You know, the way China does.

[tomp]

65. a couple of things:...

1) if it's a national asset, how come it's private? how about shutting down bp ecoterrorism instead?

and 2) only a fascist would think of shutting it down.

[Ter]

71. If he shuts it down under martial law

Hello states seceding.

[harry_pothead]

72. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY57ErBkFFE

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

74. I find it kind of hilarious that anyone thinks this is even remotely doable. (nt)

[IndianaGreen]

76. Oh, just great! Treat us all like Iran treats its citizens.

Censor the internet the same way China does!

:puke:

[Hosnon]

80. Why? Under what scenario would the survival of the U.S. depend upon

shutting down the internet?

This is silly.

[IOKIYAL]

81. You Honestly Think Joe Proposed This Legislation for a Democratic President?

ha!

[autorank]

82. You just know they'll pass this

They can't resist. They dig it, all that power.

Any Senator who voted for war funding should be removed.

Any Senator who voted for FISA should be removed.

Any Senator who voted for Bush tax cuts should be removed.

These votes all represent a criminal conspiracy to deceive and defraud citizens.

[lfairban]

84. I may have spent too much time at the ACLU, but . . .

. . . isn't this a more or less obvious violation of the first amendment?

Congress shall make no law . . . , abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press. . .

Sorry, I didn't read the, "in time of war or national crisis" exclusion.

In other news, Lieberman's office expects after conquering cyberspace, it will introduce legislation that will lay claim to all of space outside a 100 mi. international border, including, but not limited to the moon, Mars, Venus, the rest of the planets, the sun, the galaxy, and the universe.

[Uncle Joe]

88. Lieberman should be expelled from the Senate for violating his oath of office

to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.

[anAustralianobserver]

85. Real Transparency is coming to politics whether politicians are in tune with it or not.

[kgnu_fan]

90. Obama administration has motivation to do it

"Americans Have a Right to Know"

By Ray McGovern, Daniel Ellsberg and Coleen Rowley

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25758.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8592613

[New Dawn]

92. Fascism is on the march in the USA.