Mexicans Said to Confront U.S. Agents

[alp227]

Source: Associated Press

Filed at 11:58 p.m. ET

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (AP) -- Pointing their rifles, Mexican security forces chased away U.S. authorities investigating the shooting of a 15-year-old Mexican by a U.S. Border Patrol agent on the banks of the Rio Grande, the FBI and witnesses told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The killing of the Mexican by U.S. authorities -- the second in less than two weeks -- has exposed the distrust between the two countries that lies just below the surface, and has enraged Mexicans who see the death of the boy on Mexican soil as an act of murder.

Mexico's government says the number of Mexicans injured by U.S. immigration authorities has increased this year.

Shortly after the boy was shot, Mexican security forces arrived at the scene and pointed their guns at the Border Patrol agents across the riverbank while bystanders screamed insults and hurled rocks and firecrackers, FBI spokeswoman Andrea Simmons said. She said the agents were forced to withdraw.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/06/09/world/americas/AP-Border-Patrol-Shooting.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[comtec]

1. Oh THIS is going to end well...

do i really need a sarcasm tag?

gods what a cluster fuck and BOTH sides are culpable for this to be honest.

The mexican government and the hicks at the border from our side.

this will not end well, not well at all.

[lib2DaBone]

2. We're winning their hearts and minds.... Drone Love.....

[timo]

3. its a tragedy

that a kid got killed, but I cant help but wonder, why is calderon so pissy that people want to put troops on the border on this side when he has troops on the border on his side??

[clixtox]

4. Maybe because we are killing their citizens in Mexico?

I haven't heard about any USA citizens being murdered by the government forces of Mexico in the USA lately...

Have you?

[Steerpike]

5. mmmmm

I'd say that would be frowned upon

[Ian David]

6. That's a very good point. n/t

[no limit]

9. How many people die on Mexico's southern broder because of the mexican military?

[frylock]

16. idk..

why don't you research that and provide some numbers. now, bear in mind those would need to be US citizens killed by the Mexican authorities for the comparison to work. i look forward to reading your report.

[AlphaCentauri]

28. +1

[timo]

13. yawn

your missing the point Mexico has had their troops on their borders for years...and yeah living here on the border as I do I hear about people dissapearing all the time, but because they are just poor mexican Americans it just isnt newsworthy, not to mention a whole host of other heinous things that the Mexican government does to American citizens, vehicle confiscations, etc.. That kids death was tragic...but he was no saint and neither is calderon or his crooked ass government. and lets not forget clitox he was bitching about us putting troops on the border weeks before this unfortunate incident happened!!

[frylock]

17. he was no saint..

really?! your prepared to make that statement without providing any evidence. the kid threw a fucking rock (allegedly). let he who is without sin...

[cowman]

21. Yeah

and he was also known to the Border Patrol as a coyote and has been busted several times.
While his death was tragic, he took the situation into his own hands when he started throwing rocks at the agents, do you have any idea what injuries a good sized rock can cause? I do because in my 35 years as a paramedic I have seen many an injury caused by rocks, so go cry me a fucking river. The one I have symphathy for is the agent who has to live with this for the rest of his life

[timo]

22. your

preaching to the choir dude

[frylock]

25. the agent is the victim..

that's rich. am i in the i/p forum or wtf?!

[timo]

23. how do you know he didnt?

how do you know he was an innocent sweet little thing????

[frylock]

26. he was alleged to throw a rock

[EFerrari]

35. Video of the incident doesn't show him throwing anything.

[bitchkitty]

27. The most disgusting post ever. n/t

[Old Vet]

29. Then Iam sure you heard about the Rancher........

Who was murdered by illegals on his property, Shit is tense down there. If you had a large ranch on the border you might have a different opinion.

[pinboy3niner]

31. LOL--Mexican troops aren't interdicting illegal U.S. border-crossers

Other reports indicate these Mexican "security forces" were police, NOT military forces.

[martymar64]

39. No, we just have Americans smuggling guns bought here into Mexico

Maybe they should start busting some gringos trying to supply the drug cartels with more weapons.

[Javaman]

7. Why do I get the feeling that this is just the beginning?

Why am I getting flashes of similarities between this and our foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why do I feel that more of these "justified" killings will occur?

Have we entered permanently into an age where all our problems look like nails?

How does that saying go? "when you give up a little freedom for safety, you get neither".

I think it needs to be updated, "when you appease the right and bow down to their stupidity, you lose everything".

[loudsue]

8. Because it's another way we can justify trillions in military spending while cutting social security

Corporo-Fascists rule.

[defendandprotect]

12. Exactly . . .

:)

[Poll_Blind]

10. The U.S. needs to distance themselves from the C&BP agent IMMEDIATELY.

This was a criminal act and not an action the U.S. should be standing behind or defending.

PB

[CreekDog]

19. But they did defend it

:shrug:

[pinboy3niner]

33. An interesting thing about their defense

In the reports I've seen, the Border Patrol said their agent was defending himself against a group of people who were throwing rocks over the border. They DIDN'T say the boy who was shot was throwing rocks. It looks like the ONLY one saying the VICTIM was throwing rocks is the agent himself.

The recently-released video also seems to support witness statements that the boy wasn't one of the rock-throwers. So, even under Border Patrol policy allowing use of lethal force in self-defense against rock-throwers, the agent could be judged guilty for shooting the WRONG kid, if the boy was an innocent bystander.

[EFerrari]

34. That's how I'm reading it, too.

So much for this kid "taking it into his own hands".

[pinboy3niner]

36. Which raises a question: Can Mexico claim jurisdiction & seek extradition?

From another news report:


Jesus Ortega, president of the opposition Democratic Revolution Party, said the Border Patrol agent who shot Hernandez should be extradited to Mexico.

"When a delinquent commits a crime in Mexico that affects a U.S. citizen, extradition is immediately requested and the Mexican government immediately grants it," Ortega said.
<snip>

So when a bullet leaves one country and kills someone in another, who has jurisdiction?

If it is determined that the shooting was a crime and not justified use of force by law enforcement, long-standing legal principle in the U.S. states that the victim's location determines jurisdiction, international law experts said.


More on legal issues involved at link in this OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4422546

[EFerrari]

37. BushCo's president will never allow it to go forward.

[pinboy3niner]

38. Unlikely Mexico would do it, either, if the U.S. prosecutes

It's the Mexican opposition leader who called for extradition, while President Calderon was silent on that point.

[martymar64]

40. Especially if said kid was on Mexican soil

Americans might be better off staying out of Mexico. Some Federales might be looking for a little tit-for-tat.

[defendandprotect]

11. With the violent right wing in charge, there is only an ever increasing violent

future to be expected -- !!


AMEND NAFTA

END THE DRUG WAR

[loudsue]

14. Those two things are actually what the majority want. But those in charge

are making too much money off both.

[defendandprotect]

15. I fear you are right . . .

but, basically, we're fighting organized crime here --

criminals in suits --

other nations have done it -- long road, but they succeeded.

Ironically, this is something Bobby Kennedy warned us about.

But, basically elites are criminals in suits.

[Lagomorph]

24. Voilent right wing?

To whom are you referring? The Border Patrol?

[CreekDog]

18. We're shooting 15 year old boys across an international boundary for throwing rocks?

And since his department's spokesman says it was appropriate, well, I guess it's okay then.

As long as we don't have to be the world's greatest democracy.

[totodeinhere]

20. We already had one Mexican war thanks to President Polk.

If we ever get a President Palin, God forbid, we will probably have a second one.

[krabigirl]

30. The Mexican govt has every right to be mad at that dumb Border agent.

I was sick to my stomach when I heard about the shooting. Have we no shame left?! I think we all know the answer to that one.

[mbperrin]

32. Seems there's plenty of violence from both sides to go around.

From the OP:

Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said its records indicate the number of Mexicans killed or wounded by immigration authorities rose from five in 2008 to 12 in 2009 to 17 so far this year, which is not half over. However, two killings in such a short period is rare.

Meanwhile, the Border Patrol released statistics showing that assaults on agents along the border between El Paso, Texas, and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, were on pace to far exceed totals in the previous four years.

Since October of last year, Border Patrol agents in the El Paso sector have been assaulted 33 times, compared with 39 times in the previous fiscal year. Twenty-nine of those incidents were rock-throwing, compared to 31 such incidents in all of fiscal 2009.

That's what happened Monday night, when suspected illegal immigrants who ran back to Mexico began throwing rocks at Border Patrol agents detaining other immigrants, Simmons said.


Real truth is, these numbers are insignificant on either side when you look at people killed by drunk drivers last year: 50,000(!)

Here, between 33 assaults and 17 deaths, 50 people in all are involved. Hardly an epic ongoing struggle or battle.

[martymar64]

41. Still, you might wanna stay out of Juarez or Nuevo Laredo for awhile.