Dems Break Ranks Over Whether to Give Davis Recall Competition

[Nambe]

Gannett Co., Inc.

The Democratic unity behind Gov. Gray Davis may be starting to splinter in light of October's recall election.

Some Democrats are breaking ranks. They're concerned they could lose control of the statehouse, some are now pushing to place an alternative Democrat on the recall ballot.

"Placing all of our chips on a bet that Davis can beat the recall is a high risk gamble, and I'm not prepared to take it," said Rep. Cal Dooley, D-Hanford. "If there is going to be a second question on the ballot, we should have a strong democrat to give people a choice."

Polls show Sen. Dianne Feinstein is the most popular Democrat in California, but she is personally opposed to the recall, having been the target of a recall herself while serving as San Francisco mayor. She says she won't run. Party leaders say they're maintaining unity. ---


Very Good Voter’s Guide

[gulliver]

1. The recall law seems unfair to the incumbent party.

You can't vote "No" on the recall and then also for a Democrat just in case it doesn't go your way. The "No" vote makes your choice of replacement moot. At least that's how I understand it to work. Can that be right? Does the recall law have a bug in it besides the obvious fact that abusing it is so easy (as Republicans have shown).

[Code_Name_D]

3. I agree

The whole think stinks. But you have to play the game in this case. (all though the repugs are not above changin the rules mid-stream, perhaps we should consider the same thing.)

[Jack Rabbit]

6. Wrong! Please read this. It is important.

No one needs to vote any particular way on the recall question in order to cast a vote for a replacement candidate. One may vote to retain Davis as governor on the recall question and still vote for the candidate of his choice in the replacement election.

I will vote No on the recall question. I will also vote for the liberal/left (or, if necessary, centrist) candidate most likely to deny Darrell Issa and his ilk the governor's office. I urge all to do the same.

[mitchtv]

7. i will vote no

and maybe even vote the green(puke subsidiary) candidate on that you can be sure

[Andromeda]

12. Are you sure?

If you vote no on the recall then isn't it the same as voting for Davis, again? If you voted for the liberal or moderate candidate, another Democrat besides Davis, wouldn't that nullify your vote against the recall?

In other words, how can you do both?

[Aaron]

15. It's two seperate questions and you vote on each

The first is do you want to recall Davis * Yes or No
The second is -IF- Davis is recalled, who do you want to replace him * Repug candidate 1, Repug candidate 2, Savage, other, other, Camejo (Green Party), other, other.

Thus far it looks like no Dem's are going to be on the ballot to replace Davis. So, vote against the recall question, then for the most progressive candidate in case the recall passes.

With the candidate field as it is right now your ballot would read:
Recall Davis? No
Davis' replacement? Camejo (Green)

At least that's how I understand all this from watching PBS/NPR/Other posters here.

[Jack Rabbit]

20. Exactly right, Aaron

After seeing that post last night, I started thread in General Discussion putting out the word.

Please keep it bumped up for a couple of days. Allowing the misconception to go uncorrected palys into the hands of the far right.

[dwillison]

19. When the vote is no to a recall, that is a vote for the incumbent.

Giving the option of then voting for another, in this case,
Democrat, would be giving the voter two choices for a single position.

[TahitiNut]

24. Deceptive half-truth

In any election, a vote for one candidate can be thought of as a vote against other candidates for the same election. In almost every election, however, the requirement for winning is the same for all candidates.

In the recall election, however, due to the separation of questions on the ballot, only Davis is required to achieve a strict majority of votes to be 'elected' (again) as Governor. All other candidates, appearing on the second ballot question, are merely required to obtain a plurality of votes. (In my strongly-held view, this is clearly a violation of 'equal protection' and should invalidate this election if challenged in the courts.)

Facts:

• Voters can vote on either or both questions on the recall ballot.
  While the election law was written to require a vote (either 'yes' or 'no') on the first question (to recall) as a condition for voting on the second question (replacement), that requirement has been struck down by a Federal court as unconstitutional.
• There was never any requirement to vote 'yes' on the first question in order to be allowed to vote on the second question. Never. This 'urban legend' reeks of reichwing disinformation designed to defraud voters into voting for a recall they wouldn't otherwise desire.

[Code_Name_D]

2. The Repugs are trying to exploite the weakness of the DLC.

I think it's foolish to place your eggs in one basket. However, one cure to this, is to place some one to the left of Davis (that shouldn't be heard to do.) And that will end any fucher recales for fear they may pick up some one even more librial.

[PartyPooper]

4. I've been a fan of Dianne's for over thirty years.

I was living in San Francisco before and during her tenure as mayor. I have a lot of affection and respect for her.

I don't believe she wants to jump in. Why should she? The mess in Sacramento is really a disaster. She can do more to serve her constituency by remaining in the Senate.

If it's Riordan, Issa, and Davis...I think Davis will retain his job.
God, I hope I'm correct.

:evilgrin:

[Jack Rabbit]

5. Putting a strong Dem on the ballot

Entering a strong Democrat like Feinstein in the replacement election in no way needs to be seen as undermining Davis.

Davis is unpopular. However, this is a recall election, not an ordinary election. The first question is: Should Davis be recalled? Underscoring that question is one of what is the proper reason for recalling the governor.

The Recall, Referendum and Initiative were reforms instituted in 1911 to allow the people to take law making and the unpleasant business of removing a corrupt officer into their own hands if the politicians do not act. They are good reforms if used properly.

However, we should not lose track of the historical reason for the Recall. It means we must ask ourselves not whether Davis is doing a good job or if any of the replacement candidates can do a better one, but rather: Is Davis guilty of malfeasance? If one cannot honestly say that he is, then one should vote No on the question of recall.

That is a very different question from whether Davis is a good governor or the best one we could have. In an ordinary election, simply preferring one candidate to current officeholder is sufficient reason to remove the incumbant. This is not an ordinary election. It should take something more to remove Davis.

In an article on DU's home page this morning, it is argued that those driving the recall have not made their case against Davis.

[w4rma]

8. Can Davis run on the ballot, himself?

If he loses the recall, but wins the election, then that just means he would be recalled then reelected.

[Jack Rabbit]

9. No

The target of a recall cannot be a candidate to replace himself.

[w4rma]

11. Source? Law? Are you making an unfounded assumption?

Just because you think that's how a recall *should* work, doesn't mean that's how the recall law *does* work.

[Democat]

13. I have read Davis can not be on the ballot

3. Can Davis run on the recall ballot as a replacement candidate, too?

A. No. Davis is one of the few registered voters in California who can't run in the replacement election. One of the others is former Gov. Pete Wilson, who's a victim of term limits.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/07/27/MN55660.DTL

I wonder if he should sue for the right to be on the ballot. If he was on the ballot, and Democrats came out to vote, there is no way he could lose.

[w4rma]

14. The article sites no reason why Davis can't. It just says he can't.

"No. Davis is one of the few registered voters in California who can't run in the replacement election."

And that's all. No explanation about why, which tells me that the author of the article doesn't know why, either.

I think he should run on the ballot and let the Republican Party sue to try to get him off of it.

[Aaron]

16. I've got a feeling that could turn out electing the runner up

A nefarious court could diqualify Davis post election, like the USSC ruled against Gore, so the next biggest vote getter would win. My guess is that second-place vote getter would be a Repub. Although, like you, I'd like to see the statute that says Davis can't run, if such exists.

[Democat]

17. Here is the California Constitution

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 2 VOTING, INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND RECALL


SEC. 15. (a) An election to determine whether to recall an officer
and, if appropriate, to elect a successor shall be called by the
Governor and held not less than 60 days nor more than 80 days from
the date of certification of sufficient signatures.
(b) A recall election may be conducted within 180 days from the
date of certification of sufficient signatures in order that the
election may be consolidated with the next regularly scheduled
election occurring wholly or partially within the same jurisdiction
in which the recall election is held, if the number of voters
eligible to vote at that next regularly scheduled election equal at
least 50 percent of all the voters eligible to vote at the recall
election.
(c) If the majority vote on the question is to recall, the officer
is removed and, if there is a candidate, the candidate who receives
a plurality is the successor. The officer may not be a candidate,
nor shall there be any candidacy for an office filled pursuant to
subdivision (d) of Section 16 of Article VI.

http://www.igs.berkeley.edu/library/htRecall2003.html

[w4rma]

34. That convinces me, Davis can't run

without that part of the California Constitution challenged and judged somehow unconstitutional according to the U.S. Constitution.

[Democat]

10. We need a single strong Democrat on the ballot

If we don't, then a Republican can win with 10% of the vote, but the Democrats will need 51% to win. It doesn't make sense to not have someone on the ballot.

[Atlant]

18. Agree! McAuliffe's "strategery" is no strategy at all.

Agree! McAuliffe's "strategery" is no strategy at all.

(Getting a single Dem on the ballot, though, would require a certain
amount of Democratic unity; that may be the failure of this idea.)

Atlant

[Jack Rabbit]

21. Those who support McAuliffe's strategy fail to point out this

Those who support McAuliffe's strategy fail to point out that it takes just as much discipline to run no candidate at all as it would to run one only.

The Democrats stand to lose the California's governor's office over this folly. They should allow Feinstein to run and put the word out: No on the recall -- Feinstein for replacement.

That way, even if the recall does pass, Issa is left with an insufficient return on his investment.

[VermontYankee]

22. What happens with Feinsteins senate seat?

Man that paragraph B above is confusing. Can anyone translate it?

I understand now why McAuliffe doesn't want another candidate. Anyone who votes no to recall cannot cast a vote for replacement?


What if Davis resigns? Might he?

If its Feinstein,What would happen with the senate seat?

[Jack Rabbit]

23. If she becomes governor

If Davis is recalled and Feinstein wins the replacement election, she will resign her seat in the Senate, assume duties as governor and appoint a replacement a new senator.

The new Senator will server until a election is held in November 2004, when a permanent replacement will be chosen. The winner of that election will face re-election again in 2006, when Feinstein's senate term is due to expire.

[mitchtv]

31. THANK YOU JACK RABBIT for part2 of your

excellent rundown on the bums running against Davis.The commentary deserves to be widely read in TODAYS' DU HOME PAGE

[mitchtv]

32. THANK YOU JACK RABBIT for part2 of your

excellent rundown on the bums running against Davis.The commentary deserves to be widely read in TODAYS' DU HOME PAGE

[mitchtv]

33. THANK YOU JACK RABBIT for part2 of your

excellent rundown on the bums running against Davis.The commentary deserves to be widely read in TODAYS' DU HOME PAGE

[Aaron]

36. You can vote against the recall and for a candidate in case of recall

So your ballot should look like this:

Recall Davis? No
If Davis is recalled who do you want to replace him? Camejo (Right now the most progressive candidate running AFAIK) If Arianna Huffington announces I think she becomes the preffered candidate for Dems but so far she hasn't.

[mitchtv]

26. those who support Dooley's position fail to poimt Out

Dianne , having survived her own recall , is dead set against it and is Davis' closest ally, doesn't want the job. Any one who thinks that they will get a better deal with Dianne is , simply dreaming, If anything , she is as conservative if not more so on some issues.

[mitchtv]

29. the srongest democrat is Davis

feinstein is not interested. They are cut from the same cloth she and Davis. Don't you guys realize that any Dem on the ballot WILL siphon off votes for Davis? and since it will be seen as an attack on the primary winner; they(whoever that is), will not get allthe Dem votes. and an addition to validating the recall, they will lose.

[Jack Rabbit]

37. I don't think so.

Davis has a 23% approval rating. This is strong?

Voters are disenchanted with Davis in spite of ideology, not because of it. It is quite conceivable that a voter will rejct one centrist because he does not believe that one cuts the mustard and accept one perceived as more able to govern.

Finally, it would not necessariy be an attack on Davis nor would it validate the recall. It would be very easy to imagine Feinstein (and very difficult to imagine anybody else) asking voters for their support as a replacement candidate while urging them to either reject the recall or to at least consider more carefully the proper reasons for voting Yes. That would educate voters. Davis would stand a much better chance if voters get that kind of message. If she's giving it as a candidate, it can't be ignored. Also, because she is so well known, she would get more free media than would a Bustamante or a Sanchez.

[tlb]

38. If Davis is the strongest democrat then write off California.

I still think Nancy Pelosi hit it when she suggested Leon Panetta. At this point however I am resigned to the California dems betting all their chips on Davis.

I sure wouldn't.

[David__77]

25. only Bustamante can fill that role...

I think Bustamante can put his name on the recall ballot, as a stand-in for Davis, without legitimizing the recall.

People who want another name on the ballot don't realize that the strategy against this thing must be to delegitimize it and make it seen as a circus. Adding a name lends legitimacy. This is not a general election. This is a right-wing power play.

[mndemocrat_29]

27. Bustamante would be great

He or Feinstein or Arianna or Willie Brown or any of the Democratic House would be fine or the constitutional officers. Just one of them has to be on the ballot so that we have a safety net.

[slackmaster]

28. I think Bustamante is the only logical Democratic choice

Feinstein probably doesn't want the job. If SOMEONE doesn't run the Reps will take it for sure. I don't see Davis surviving the recall.

[mitchtv]

30. I think he will survive

but he surely won't if the party thinks they can do better mid stream.I think Cruz is our best bet. DiFi doesn't want it, and will not dignify it by running,as she has survived a recall herself as mayor of SF. As always I ask "who will be the kingmaker?" Davis won the primary. who will stop 300 dems from answering the call? please, answers needed.

[slackmaster]

35. It's OK to be optimistic but a wise person always has Plan B

It's easy for DiFi to pontificate about not dignifying the recall when she's happy where she is. If Democrats fail to come up with at least ONE suitable candidate for Question #2 we're asking for trouble.