Saudi woman beats up virtue cop

[IDemo]

Source: The Jerusalem Post

It was a scene Saudi women’s rights activists have dreamt of for years.

When a Saudi religious policeman sauntered about an amusement park in the eastern Saudi Arabian city of Al-Mubarraz looking for unmarried couples illegally socializing, he probably wasn’t expecting much opposition.

But when he approached a young, 20-something couple meandering through the park together, he received an unprecedented whooping.

A member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, the Saudi religious police known locally as the Hai’a, asked the couple to confirm their identities and relationship to one another, as it is a crime in Saudi Arabia for unmarried men and women to mix.

Read more: http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=175779

[neverforget]

1. A righteous beating!

[saigon68]

33. HOLDING HANDS IN PUBLIC

[wizstars]

44. yeah, but they're married..... n/t

[Lucky Luciano]

131. LOL! Good one! nt

[neverforget]

105. Holding hands in public and sweet deals in private. Gotta love the Bush/Saudi

connection.....

[The Damned]

141. Gotta love it!

:evilgrin:

[Canuckistanian]

2. Woohooo!

(She's doomed.)

[proteus_lives]

4. That's what I was thinking.

My first thought was "good for her!" then "Oh shit, she's in so much trouble."

[Ian David]

She was probably in trouble already anyway. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

11. It's double now

The members of the Prevention of Vice and Protection of Virtue squad have NO sense of humor or fair play where women are concerned.

This is the last you'll hear of this woman.

[aquart]

12. She may be dead meat but it ain't the last you'll hear.

I'm thinking Stonewall. I'm thinking Rosa Parks. One day, someone has enough and everyone else wakes up.

[dflprincess]

17. Aren't Saudi women required to cover everything but their hands & eyes in public

or may the face be uncovered?

If she had everything but her eyes covered, the only way she might be identified is if someone can identify the man she was with. Their own rules may come back and bite them in the ass. "Officer she was wearing a black abaya and had brown eyes. I'd know her anywhere."

[pezDispenser]

20. yea, I'm sure they don't have that figured out

:eyes:

[AnneD]

111. I have seen.....

little children find their mothers in a crowded of black veiled head to toe women. It's a mystery to me.

I traveled to the hedonistic state of Dubai. They were lax because of so many tourists in the area. I did learn how to tell differences between black chadors, but I missed out visiting the all womens shopping mall.

She is in big trouble, esp if she gave her name and he his. But when they find them I predict she will be found guilty and assigned punishment but I think it will be greatly reduced.

Society in SA is the very young and restless. The monarchy realizes they must give the population some liberty.

[peace frog]

37. Exactly

When she's charged, tried, convicted and punished, we can expect to see a helluva lot more incidents of Purity Police beatings by average Saudi citizens. As usual, strong-arm tactics will create a backlash they may not be preapred to deal with.

[Mopar151]

19. She should apply for asylum here

And we should grant it. And her friend, as well. The thing that bothers me the most about the Saudi religous cops is haw many Americans would like them to be here (they think).

[LiberalEsto]

68. Won't happen

Our corporate government wants Saudi oil and could care less about human rights.

[ooglymoogly]

96. Yes and then only the race police would ask her for papers please.

Where she might only be fined and put in jail for an indeterminate period. At least, as of yet, she would not face being beheaded; Something we are progressing toward if Clarence has anything to say about it.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

106. that isn't a bad idea,

They might be quite effective in addressing the evangelical republican infestation in public washrooms,

[Starbucks Anarchist]

3. Good for her.

:evilgrin:

[Warpy]

5. It was unknown why the man collapsed?

Bullshit. Those guys carry big sticks with which to beat any woman who dares to show a lock of stray hair or an inch of ankle. I'm sure the guy got a smack in the back of one or both knees.

As for her, whether or not she's sentenced to any punishment, she's going to become the heroine for every Saudi woman with years of resentment built up against those petty tyrants, and that means just about all of them.

I really love that someone finally cleaned the clock of one of those guys and I'm thrilled it was a woman who did it.

[wizstars]

46. DITTO!!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

6. Fuck...... yeah! nt

[Politicub]

126. x2 - screw the morality police

In the U.S. and Saudi Arabia!!

:kick:

[ZombieHorde]

7. I am normally anti-violence, but I think she is awesome. nt

[No Elephants]

23. Self defense is different from violence. It's the religious police who are violent.

[JCMach1]

8. This post is worthless without pics

:)

[Skittles]

9. good for her

[PfcHammer]

10. Your epidermis is showing

[Beacool]

13. Good for her!!!!!!!!

"According to the Saudi daily Okaz, the woman then allegedly laid into the religious policeman, punching him repeatedly, and leaving him to be taken to the hospital with bruises across his body and face."

:applause:

[Odin2005]

14. K&R!!!

[DeSwiss]

15. Ah-Hah!!! Yes!!!

And it is quite ironic to me that on the day that a young Arab-American woman wins Miss USA (basically frivolous by comparison, I know), that another "blow" (apparently several of them) for women's freedom from oppression took place half a world away.

I've been sick as a 'lil puppy all day today, but right now I'm feeling pretty damn good.


- Let's hope that this woman is safe and remains that way.......


K&R

[D23MIURG23]

16. K&R.

[era veteran]

18. It would be fitting if she kicked him in the privates.

Cue Helen Reddy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmifO2sKT7g

[olegramps]

54. Not sure he has and balls.

[Cleita]

21. Amazons unite!

I think it's time for women, who are oppressed in those countries, to show some muscle. I'm all for it. Apparently their men, meaning brothers, uncles, fathers and sons won't support them so it's time they stood up for their rights.

[tavalon]

22. She won the battle but I feel very bad for her, for she will likely lose that

war and maybe even her life. Damn it. I fucking hate the oppression of people. Especially when to fight back can be deadly.

[No Elephants]

24. Remember: We still support this country and we oversaw the enshrining of Sharia law in the Iraqi

Constitution.

Meanwhile, what's up with her beau?

"A member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, the Saudi religious police, known locally as the Hai’a, asked the couple to confirm their identities and relationship to one another.....

For unknown reasons, the young man collapsed upon being questioned by the cop."

[Divine Discontent]

26. never one to fully assume, perhaps he has a heart ailment and it caused him to faint? or he thought

"oh, God, we're dead", and the stress did him in. Ya never know, and he could just be someone that can't handle any stress. point? but I'm happy for the lady to stay strong physically and take down the jerk.

[No Elephants]

25. We need to start a legal defense fund for her.

"Should the woman be charged, she could face a lengthy prison term and lashings for assaulting a representative of a government institution."

Let's call it the Saudi Jane Doe Fund.

Also, fellow web junkies, please note:

“The media and the Internet have given people a lot of power and the freedom to express their anger,” she said. “The Hai’a are like a militia, but now whenever they do something it’s all over the Internet. This gives them a horrible reputation and gives people power to react.”

Post Up!

[skepticscott]

29. You're assuming that

she is even permitted a defense, or at least something remotely resembling what we would call one. I'm not sure what the legal procedures are in SA in a case like this, but it wouldn't surprise me if judgement is simply passed by a group of old men, and she gets no chance to even open her mouth.

[grace0418]

dupe

delete

[grace0418]

120. Money won't help her unfortunately. She'll be lucky if she manages to keep from being executed.

But damn if it wouldn't feel good to do exactly what she did.

[leftynyc]

27. I fear for this woman's life

and that of her friend. Maybe international attention will keep them alive.

[comtec]

28. her friend will be fine... she however is doomed

I'll honestly be amazed if we hear from her again.
she's so incredibly dead i fear.

fucking barbarians.

[get the red out]

35. Cowardly-ass MEN

If the cowardly-ass MEN in those countries would stand up for the women in their lives they might have a chance.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gator_Matt]

48. Give me a break

"That would require them to have a spine and very few men do."

Are you always this sexist? Can't you see that you aren't practicing the fairness that you preach? It would be like me saying in regards to your post "that would require using your brain, and very few women do."

[Name removed]

30. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SkyDaddy7]

31. ALL RELGIONS...

That do not recognize all women as equals to men are PURE BULLSHIT!


Seriously, this is a simple litmus test for the validity of any religion...If women and men are not equal everything else the religion claims it has to offer is PURE BULLSHIT!

[get the red out]

34. +1

If we didn't have secular laws in this country I can only imagine what the fundies would be up to as well. Probably no woman in the south would be safe to walk outside.

[SkyDaddy7]

42. I know!

Just think, right now the GOP is getting ready to jump back in power so they can continue their WAR on our Secular Laws!

Seriously, this is the 21st Century and the majority of folks still feel they have to be attached to Bronze Age Ideas...SAD!

[Deep13]

94. Right! nt

[Zhade]

116. True, but then again, all religions are bullshit anyway.

NT!

[LanternWaste]

147. As are all philosophies, economies and governments...

As are all philosophies, economies and governments-- as they all exist no where but our own imaginations...

[Ron Green]

117. All religions that don't recognize ALL PEOPLE as equal

are bullshit. A religion that does what it's supposed to do teaches equality, tolerance, scholarship and forgiveness. The hard stuff.

[SkyDaddy7]

134. I love your litmus test!!

Its so TRUE! These religions claim all these different things yet they can't even get the basics of humanity right!

...And so many still follow these systems? My only guess it has a lot to do with hurting their parents...Maybe? Well, there is also the Tea Bagger types who would do anything an authoritative firgure said to do without question! That is what is scary about religions they get folks to do some crazy stuff!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

155. Flush the Abrahamic ones.

[newfie11]

32. Hope she doesn't get stoned to death for this n/t

[The Wizard]

38. Religion is a scourge

on humanity. Most want to impose their particular superstition on everyone else.
And how do people in Saudi Arabia meet one another and engage in a normal contact for the purpose of procreating? Oh I forgot, Islamic women are considered chattel.

[protocol rv]

55. I'll trade you a 40 year old for two 20's

And they get dozens of virgins in heaven if they die fighting jihad. On the other hand, all Christians get is to sit in heaven next to Jesus. Can't compare the two.

[The Wizard]

77. The dozens of women

is open for interpretation. Some scholars say the translation means 72 bunches of grapes. I prefer picking my own grapes.

[mzteris]

61. so are many "christian" women...

in this country.

[BlueJazz]

39. If it were up to me, I'd impose sanctions against any country that treats ...

...1/2 of their citizens in such a disgusting manner.
Women have have been Fucked (excuse the pun) so much throughout history and it's time for the world to start acting
like a Modern civilization...not some backward ass savages.

Men need to think.. "How would I feel if it were the other way around?" :mad:

[KansDem]

51. I agree...

We still have sanctions against Cuba (someone want to tell me why again?), but we do business with Vietnam where we lost almost 58,000 troops and "the war." Seems we should promote human rights in the world by imposing sanctions on countries that treat their citizens this way.

Boggles the mind.

[protocol rv]

52. You need the Saudi Oil

You Americans are not aware of your lack of power. This, I believe, is called "Imperial Hubris" by Michael Scheuer, the former CIA analyst. And this is the reason why you find yourselves with a very poor economy, a lousy future ahead of you, and armies stuck in quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan. A little better understanding of the limits of your power would serve you well.

[BlueJazz]

113. We also have plenty of power to enforce our will when the cause is just.

A few well aimed atom bombs...Not Hydrogen...placed in uninhabited parts might ...ah...let the powers in those
"Religous-Nut-Countries" see that the times are are a-changing and treating your citizens like slaves is just going to cost you everything you have built.

[Flipper999]

40. This makes me happy

[Granny M]

41. I wish her well

I hope she's as lucky as she is brave.

[Lucky Luciano]

43. Well done! Encore!! Encore!!

:bounce:

[RainDog]

45. Saudi women should arm themselves

next time, the Morality Police shouldn't live to press charges.

when the war is against women, killing in self-defense is no crime.

[protocol rv]

56. How violent

What do you suggest, numchuks? Or maybe a sock full of coins?

[RainDog]

70. no. a gun. shoot the motherfucker in the face and let him bleed to death on the street

that's what you do when someone thinks they have the right to kill you if you talk to a man on the street.

they started it with the morality police bullshit. it's a war against women. women, hopefully, will defend their lives against this scum.

[protocol rv]

76. Isn't that a tad violent?

Shooting a person to death for inquiring about legal status seems quite violent. Also, where do you think this hypothetical Saudi lady will find the gun and bullets? At "Bob's Weapons Galore" in Riyad? :-)

[RainDog]

79. are you aware of the laws against women in SA?

those laws are based upon oppression.

are you really so naive to think that this person "inquiring" about her relationship with that man would have a second thought about killing her?

are you really so naive that you think people do not have access to arms in SA?

these assholes need to be AFRAID to confront people - especially women.

the violence women have endured for centuries from various religious extremists is repulsive. I'm happy to hear when any of them gets smacked down.

and if anyone in the US wants to impose theocratic b.s. here, I would hope they'd get gunned down in the street as well.

is it violent? yes, it is. but it's self-defense.

[Downtown Hound]

104. I agree with you 100%

To me, it's criminal to suggest that people facing such persecution don't have a right to defend themselves. I think the world would be a better place a thousand times over if these corrupt, hypocritical, oppressive, bigoted, religious institutions faced a little more beating down now and again when they try and shove their bullshit down the throats of others with force.

That is why I love the Greeks.

[leftynyc]

85. Sounds reasonable to me

If I knew someone felt they could beat me without repercussions, I'd have no problem shooting their ass if they confronted me with a big stick in order to beat me into submission. I'm for arming all the women in these shitholes where crap like this goes on daily. What's your suggestion?

[bitchkitty]

84. I doubt they would be able to buy numchuks.

And a sock of coins would be good, but hitting them with a sock of coins would only knock them out, and if she missed...

I think that a knife big enough to cut the motherfuckers' balls off would be much more appropriate.

[Codeine]

118. Mr. Pedantic says

"nunchucks", or even more correctly, nunchaku.

[madmax]

47. A variation of 'papers please.'

'...asked the couple to confirm their identities and relationship to one another, as it is a crime in Saudi Arabia for unmarried men and women to mix.

[peacetalksforall]

49. If the religious police had the equipment of our police, she would have been

tasered at least five times. You get your punishment on the spot.

By the way, has training started for our police in the use of tasers and billy clubs?

I wish we knew what followed for this woman. Did that virtue and vice policeman call in help. Did they cuff her? Did they take her to a jail like ours? Do they have any Defense lawyers? How religious do you have to be to be chosen as the man to lash her?

Does contempt for woman come from the heart or the culture or a book?

Does contempt for Moslems, Mexicans, Black Americans come from the heart, culture, or book?

Does contempt for those who hold contempt come from the heart, culture, or book?

If we have been sent to earth to live and learn to live with each other, have we failed the test of being born?

Nearby, WE are still torturing men.

[protocol rv]

53. Very interesting questions, my friend peacetalksforall

I've given this a lot of thought. I think we're still evolving from a caveman culture. I don't think it's contempt, it's the ability to use power. As it turns out, because men happened to be larger and stronger, they could use this power to dominate the weaker around them. And this applied to women, as well as other men, other tribes, other nations. It is in our nature to abuse our power, when we can. Thus one has to be fully aware of this topic, and exercise self restraint. And this is something most of us fail to do.

It is easier for a weaker person to think "I control my power", but this is merely caused by the lack of even weaker people around, to be lorded over. Which brings up the subject of children, even though parents love them, you'll notice there are many instances of abuse, beatings, and other uses of power, which even the weakest woman will apply once in a while.

Just food for thought.

[peacetalksforall]

66. We always talk about goodness, decency, laws, Sometimes I think it

all boils down to tolerance/intolerance. ... messages passed down .... pied pipers and as you said - power .... I'll call it the arrogances of power combined with the arrogance of superiority.

I'm going to read this all again.

[protocol rv]

74. You got it right

Now we have to sit down and figure out how to control ourselves.

[newtothegame]

50. Post sounds racist. nt

[leftynyc]

86. Really? Why? n/t

[Rebubula]

99. I am...

...awaiting your reasoning behind this post.

I suspect that there will be no valid response.

[newtothegame]

132. Judging other cultures is only ok if they are led by white males. You know this. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

140. Wow. Superintendent Chalmers said it better than I could:

"The stick up that man's butt has a stick up its butt!"

[bitchkitty]

144. Oh, please. Get over yourself. n/t

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ignis]

161. You've made a real impression in your time here. (nt)

[4_TN_TITANS]

57. Girl Power!

As the only male in my house of women, every one of my girls would have challenged such an afront with a resounding ass whooping. But, they have an entire family that stands behind them. This woman probably won't be so lucky.

[tammywammy]

58. Good for her! n/t

[mzteris]

59. "religious police"

:puke:

The AFC and all the other rw fundies would just LOVE to be able to make this country have "religious police".

[JBoy]

82. Two words that don't belong together. Ever.

If your religion can't hold up without needing "police", then it's not much of a religion.

[SteppingRazor]

60. Some people just have no regard for the law.

And those people are awesome.

[meow2u3]

62. K&R for Saudi women's rights!!!

Serves the morals police right! That's what I call an act of civil disobedience. :bounce::bounce: :bounce: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[myrna minx]

63. K&R. While I'm proud of her, I fear for her too. n/t

[YankeyMCC]

64. A violent response is sad

and yet I find a smile on my face when I first read this story.

May she be safe and may the man she punched learned from his bruises.

[RainDog]

72. if you're a woman who has been abused by assholes like these... violence isn't sad at all

it's about freaking time.

[Uncle Joe]

65. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, IDemo.

[gtar100]

67. Saudi Arabia is what America would be like, except in a Christian style,

if the tea-bagger, conservative fundamentalists had their way with making all the laws. Saudi Arabia has this problem in spades Muslim-style because the religious nuts have taken full control. It's good to see people fighting back for their freedom. A free Saudi Arabia would be a wonderful thing in this world.

[protocol rv]

69. The religious nuts have not taken full control of the USA

Sometimes I wonder, why do people like to go overboard so much? If religious nuts had taken full control of the USA, they would be putting non Christians in bonfires, like they did at Montsegur.

Since I don't live in the USA, I must confess I'm not 100 % sure of the circumstances, but I do believe it isn't that bad - yet.

[Nye Bevan]

75. It's an unwritten DU rule.

Any thread describing atrocities like women being stoned to death for adultery, or whipped for kissing in public, must contain at least one reply along the lines of "The RW fundies in the USA would love to do that too" or "The Evangelicals here are just as bad". The Salem Witch Trials are also frequently cited as proof that this kind of thing happens here too (or did happen a few hundred years ago).

[RainDog]

80. Actually, if you read theocracy watch

and note the opinions about what constitutes "godly" law according to the Dominionists, yes, this is exactly what they advocate for females. and homosexuals.

and then there is that bit about fundamentalists going to Uganda to promote genocide of homosexuals by supporting a political leader who advocates this very thing.

the religious right in the US advocates torture of homosexuals to "cure" them of their inborn sexual orientation.

that's not different at all.

[leftynyc]

87. And how many of these dominionists

are in government positions? How many have been elected? Can you even name any that I would recognize as people in any sort of power?

[fascisthunter]

93. I don't think it's that Moronic at all

we all compare to relate. There are fundamentalists in this country, that if given power would do something very similar to what the Saudis are doing now.

And as for power, look at Scaife, the Waltons, or the Moonies... you will find very powerful families and groups in this country that are made up of religious nuts and are presently influencing our government with their bribes.

[leftynyc]

108. There is a HUGE difference

between our fundies and the Saudis. Let me know when ours calls for prison for praying to someone other than allah, let me know when they call for stoning for adultury, let me know when I can get into trouble and stopped on the street for walking with a man I'm not related to. It's very common on this board to make these over the top comparisons that have absolutely no basis in fact. I know plenty of posters say "they would do something similar if they could" but they offer no proof other than "what they know in their heart" which is how sarah palin makes her stupid arguments.

All I know is, I got up this morning, wore what I wanted, left my house without needing a companion male, went to work, dealt with both men and women all day long, will commute home and will spend my evening any damn way I choose. Let me know when Saudi women have that kind of freedom.

[fascisthunter]

121. Oh we are not there yet

"Let me know when ours calls for prison for praying to someone other than allah,..."

Yes, and fundamentalists of every stripe all have the disposition to do those things. Trust me, if they get enough power they will try to suppress and repress Americans, especially the Americans who don't agree with their beliefs.

[leftynyc]

137. Let me know how they

get around the constitution. The lives of women here are vastly superior to the lives of saudi women in terms of freedom. I agree the fundies need an eye kept on them and fought against daily but to compare ours to theirs is over the top hyperbole.

[fascisthunter]

139. I hear ya lefty... it is a bit of hyperbole

but there is room for concern

[leftynyc]

146. Plenty of room for concern

I'll never trust fundies no matter where they come from. I just get sick of every time something is brough up regarding women getting mistreated for religious reasons, people where feel compelled to cheapen the very real and very scary lives these women are forced to lead by comparing it to our fundies.

[gtar100]

135. I hope you have a lifetime filled with such days.

A blog post is not a discertation so you won't get absolute proof from me here. Just look around. For me, my home town just had a nice visit from the Phelps family. They got an earful back at them as well as a public display of acceptance of diversity. But we should all understand the importance of our willingness to stand up for respect and equality and not let fundamentalists get away with the crap they try to put on everyone. As liberals we know to live and let live and show respect for people person but we have bitter enemies out there. And among them are our own forgetfulness and ease of taking things for granted.

[leftynyc]

136. I have no fear of the US turning into Saudi Arabia

The phelps family are annoying and disrespectful but get demonstrated against in much larger numbers than the family itself. My point was these moronic comparisons between the US and saudi arabia have no facts to support them. The people who make them obviously couldn't care less about the saudi women if they make light of how wretched it is to be a woman in a place that treats you like property. They think they're making some brilliant observation but in reality, they're disrespecting the very real problems saudi women have to deal with every day. Our fundies make a lot of noise, theirs are allowed to beat women in the streets.

[gtar100]

158. And let's make sure that the religiously nutty are nothing more

than annoying and disrespectful. But their rise in political power over the last 40 years means to me that liberals and progressives have not done enough to advance the quality of liberal cultural ideas and understanding. If we give up or fail to assert ourselves at the right times in the right places, religious fundamentalism is what we inherit. And that is a deep, dark pit as we have witnessed time and again throughout history. You can ignore my point and call it moronic if you want, but I've spent my entire adult life with the idiocy of fundamentalism asserting itself in public life and I'm just plain sick of it. Not because it's just annoying and disrespectful, but because it's dangerous.

"They" - being me - do not take lightly what is going on in Saudi Arabia. The conditions there are absolutely wretched for women. It should be stated over and over. The assholes there who use their religion to indulge their sadistic and pedosexual disorders need to know there is a world of people surrounding them who condemn their actions.

[jeff47]

100. Lots.

Here's one: http://www.governor.virginia.gov/

[leftynyc]

107. That's his website

Where is proof he's a dominionist? And since there are "lots", some links shouldn't be too hard.

[RainDog]

115. are you familiar with Jeff Sharlet's work in The Family?

that book came from this article:

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525

Sharlet notes that these people, who HOUSE and "provide spiritual guidance" to members of Congress talk about using "Stalin and Hitler-like tactics to achieve their goals... these are the good christians who think they deserve to make laws in this land.

theocracy watch looks at the takeover of the republican party

http://www.theocracywatch.org/taking_over.htm

there's Max Blumenthal's book, Republican Gomorrah, that also talks about dominionists and The Family.

http://www.republicangomorrah.com/excerpt.php

The "third way" is a group Palin is involved with that also advocates for theocracy.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

Chris Hedges talks about his ethics professor at Harvard Divinity noting we live in an age in which we have to fight against "Christian Fascists."

http://www.theocracywatch.org/chris_hedges_nov24_04.htm

He was not a man to use the word fascist lightly. He was in Germany in 1935 and 1936 and worked with the underground anti-Nazi church, known as The Confessing Church, led by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Adams was eventually detained and interrogated by the Gestapo, who suggested he might want to consider returning to the United States . It was a suggestion he followed. He left on a night train with framed portraits of Adolph Hitler placed over the contents inside his suitcase to hide the rolls of home movie film he took of the so-called German Christian Church, which was pro-Nazi, and the few individuals who defied them, including the theologians Karl Barth and Albert Schweitzer. The ruse worked when the border police lifted the top of the suitcases, saw the portraits of the Fuhrer and closed them up again. I watched hours of the grainy black and white films as he narrated in his apartment in Cambridge.

He saw in the Christian Right, long before we did, disturbing similarities with the German Christian Church and the Nazi Party, similarities that he said would, in the event of prolonged social instability or a national crisis, see American fascists, under the guise of religion, rise to dismantle the open society. He despaired of liberals, who he said, as in Nazi Germany, mouthed silly platitudes about dialogue and inclusiveness that made them ineffectual and impotent. Liberals, he said, did not understand the power and allure of evil nor the cold reality of how the world worked.

http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/12/04/theocracy-imposing-faith-into-politics-in-the-us-and-abroad/

Since Obama was elected president, the religious fascists in this nation have claimed he is the anti-christ, a socialist, a communist, a fascist... all war words for the religious right. They do not believe he has the right to govern EVEN THO he was elected... because they, themselves, are totalitarian assholes.

We see the erosion of women's rights, even under Obama, under the influence of the religious reich in regard to rights to privacy in reproductive decisions.

Are you familiar with Mikey Weinstein, in the Air Force? He started a group to PROTEST the incursion of evangelical fascism in the air force... it was so bad he had his life threatened by these assholes.

Weinstein calls the religious right a THREAT.

We are not at war at all with Christianity, or even Evangelical Christianity. Half of my own family is Christian. We are, however, at war with a small subset of Evangelical Christians who go by the long technical name -- premillenial, dispensational, reconstructionist, dominionist, evangelical, fundamentalist Christians.

The leaders are well known: Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, John Hagee, and the list used to include Ted Haggard, before he had some career issues. Basically, they believe that it’s their inalienable right to push this weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ. Either you’re with us, or if you’re not with us, we or our version of Jesus will eradicate you.

You can add Palin's name to that list. I almost wish they would attempt a coup because I'd love to see them all hanged as traitors.

[leftynyc]

138. I agree these people need

to be watched and fought against. What I don't agree with is that, right now, our fundies are as powerful as the saudi clerics are. To compare the lives of our women to those in saudi arabia is ignoring the very real problems those women have. All those names in your second to last paragraph are seen as jokes by the overwhelming majority of Americans (sarah included). You can argue that our fundies MIGHT try to turn us into a theocracy - that doesn't change the fact the saudi arabia IS a theocracy (a monarachy really). Don't minimize what these saudi women have to deal with every single day. That's my point.

[fascisthunter]

81. not it's not a rule... but I guess it bothers you

enough to claim it does

[leftynyc]

88. Happens on every thread like this

I've been around here a long time and every shithole that treats their women like crap gets compared (moronically) to the US.

[Ter]

103. It will never be that bad

I know of no leader calling for the death of non-Christians. Even are most extreme nuts like Pat Robertson don't support that. Saudi Arabia is far, far more intolerant.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

156. Ann Coulter said we should kill atheists didn't she?

[Ter]

102. I think that's a bit too far

I don't hear anyone on the Christian Right calling for socializing (such as a walk in the park) for married couples only. Hell, even 120 years ago in the most Bible Belt states you didn't have to be married to go for a walk or to the store. You just couldn't have sex.

[robertpaulsen]

110. Exactly. Just take away the separation of church and state, then wait 20 years.

If they can get away with butchering the English language by calling their Middle East counterparts Islamofascists, then they should be required to call themselves Christofascists.

[woo me with science]

114. Just like someone was arguing that if given power PETA will force legislation

outlawing all eating of meat and keeping of animals as pets.

Yeah, they haven't done it yet...but they WANT to!

[robertpaulsen]

122. If you take away the separation of church & state, you get a de facto theocracy.

I'm not sure what you have to take away to get a PETAcracy.

[woo me with science]

127. Nobody is arguing establishing a theocracy.

However, it is insulting and outrageous to equate the current status of women in Saudi Arabia with what the fundies *might* do someday in the US.

[robertpaulsen]

145. Yes they are. Check out the links on post 115.

Why do you find it "insulting" that I pointed out that Islamic and Christian fundigelicals are birds of a feather? How does that negate the current suffering of women in Saudi Arabia? Why is it so "outrageous" to ponder what *might* happen if these sexist racist religious xenophobes had their wishes fulfilled regarding the separation of church and state in this country?

And why do you have a bug up your ass about PETA? :)

[woo me with science]

148. Oh please.

Regarding PETA, your knee jerk tribal allegiances prevent you from recognizing an analogy, apparently.

As for why it is insulting to women in Saudi to equate what they face with what American women face from fundies, let me know when the government here is sanctioning stoning of your wife and daughter for having sex outside of marriage.

Sheesh. :eyes:

[robertpaulsen]

149. Miss the smile? Do your "knee jerk tribal allegiances" prevent you from recognizing a joke?

So, you presume to speak for the women of Saudi Arabia and what they find insulting? From all the way over in Washington DC?

Tell me more about my knee jerk tribal allegiances. You seem to know them so well. :rofl:

[woo me with science]

151. Oh boy!!

You have convinced me!!!! You are right!!!! A Saudi woman about to be stoned would DEFINITELY take your side on this!!!!! She will KNOW the Baptist women are going through the EXACT SAME THING she is!!!!!!!! I bet when they are burying her in the dirt and throwing rocks at her head, she will REALLY be thinking of the Baptist women! And feeling sorry for what they are going through!!!!!

And yes!! When I made fun of the people who say PETA will ban meat and take away all the animals, you are right, I was REALLY making fun of PETA! Ha ha ha! Even though I made fun of the people saying that about them! YOu are the ONLY one who figured out what I really meant! Because you are so smart!!!!! I PRETENDED to make fun of the people saying that about them, but the SECRET MESSAGE was really against PETA, not them!!!!! Because it was a BIG SECRET!!!!! I think it is called reverse psychology and it is very CLEVER! Like YOU!

Because YOU are the only one who figured it out!!!!!!111

YOu must be very smart!!!11111



:yourock: :headbang: :fistbump: :yourock: :yourock:

[robertpaulsen]

154. No, it is you who have convinced me.

Never again shall I read about the evil deeds perpetrated by religious fundamentalists in countries where there is no separation of church and state and wonder, "Could the religious fundamentalists in this country commit the same evil deeds here if they were successful in their quest to remove that separation?" Never again shall I post such an outrageous scenario on the internet, because some Saudi woman buried in the dirt might log on to DU and read my heretical ramblings as rocks are being thrown at her head and shout, "I'm insulted!" With such risk at causing offense, we should all just ignore The Family and all the other Christian Fascists in this country as you have, and just focus on those evil Islamic Fascists in other countries whose mindset bears absolutely no similarity to any other religious fundamentalist group in America. Because as long as Christian Fascists aren't stoning women at this very instant in history, what's there to worry about? It can't happen here!

And way to double down by dissecting that PETA analogy! I never knew until you spelled it out for me how Chris Hedges was philosophically analogous with PETA-haters like Rush Limbaugh! Yeah, now I totally see the equivalency! Perhaps if you explain it to Francis Schaeffer the way you explained it to me, he'll stop wasting time harrassing those poor right-wing Evangelicals, who just want to save souls the way PETA wants to save animals. Besides, there's an Islamic Menace that's more important to focus on!

[woo me with science]

159. Oh my.

Do you have template arguments on index cards? Did any of that have anything to do with what I actually wrote? I keep getting an image in my mind of this argument. I am talking to you, but you are blindfolded and facing slightly to the right of me. You are shaking your fists in the air at nobody and spouting...about Rush Limbaugh? First you accuse me of having a bug in my ass about PETA, and now you have me on the side of...Rush Limbaugh? :rofl:

I would try to explain the analogy to you a third time, but I am not in the mood for a treatise on Sean Hannity, as I try not to pollute my brain with any menton of right-wing talk radio rot. I will point out gently, though, that you STILL have not comprehended the analogy, which was fairly simple and had nothing to do with attacking PETA. I would try to explain it a third time, but I worry that I will hit the "on" button for another canned tirade. Mentioning Saudi Arabia triggered the equivalency with fundie Christians, mentioning PETA triggered Limbaugh, apparently. I am tempted to mention Walmart or Olive Garden, just to see what comes out.

Enjoy your terror and outrage, my friend. I don't think the Baptists will be stoning anyone soon, but I will keep alert for that. FWIW, I have written my share of posts expressing dismay and anger at the role of the Christian right in US politics. But some of us are capable of being outraged by the dog status of women in Saudi without the knee-jerk and disingenuous attempt to equate the two.

[robertpaulsen]

160. "Did any of that have anything to do with what I actually wrote?"

Note to pot from kettle: You're still fucking black!

Translation: No, there never was a problem on my part with comprehending the analogy. You're quite right about it being "simple". I've got a better word:



You are shaking your fists in the air at nobody and spouting...about Rush Limbaugh? First you accuse me of having a bug in my ass about PETA, and now you have me on the side of...Rush Limbaugh? :rofl:

Of course you're not Rush Limbaugh. Within the context of the analogy you created, Chris Hedges, Frank Schaeffer, me and anyone else who dares to express that Evangelicals would like to do to America what the Wahhabi have done to Saudi Arabia is Rush Limbaugh. Because we're just like Limbaugh, Hannity and any other right-wing knee-jerk who attacks PETA. Do you see now how your analogy is failing? Why I tried to deflect such an attack with a joke? "Did any of that have anything to do with what I actually wrote?" :eyes:

Enjoy your terror and outrage, my friend. I don't think the Baptists will be stoning anyone soon, but I will keep alert for that. FWIW, I have written my share of posts expressing dismay and anger at the role of the Christian right in US politics. But some of us are capable of being outraged by the dog status of women in Saudi without the knee-jerk and disingenuous attempt to equate the two.

No outrage here, just a bit puzzled. Can you show me one post where I have tried to "equate" what the Christian Right is doing with what Islamic fundamentalists are doing? Because I've only tried to make a comparison between a worldview mindset as it relates to intent, as far as I know. Can you point out where I have personally said Baptists will be stoning anyone soon? I believe I intimated that such actions would be contingent upon the Christian Right eliminating the separation of church and state, which is their stated intent, and even then we would have to wait at least 20 years. Did I say otherwise? There's a word to describe your attack if I didn't:



But if I did, feel free to clarify. Your own "canned tirades" are quite edifying. :popcorn:

[Ignis]

162. OT: Just to debunk the usual FUD regarding PETA:

PETA does not secretly want to outlaw the consumption of meat, nor does it secretly want to outlaw the keeping of animals as pets.

Despite their PR antics and the tin ear used in many of their campaigns, all PETA does in the legislative arena is to work for the passage of anti-animal cruelty laws and the improvement of regulations regarding the care, transport, etc. of animals.

You know...just like that dastardly Humane Society! :wow:

But I swear, hearing some DUers talk about "The Secret PETA Agenda" is like listening to rednecks talk about "The Secret Jewish Agenda" or "The Secret Gay Agenda."

:banghead:

Love 'em or hate 'em, let's at least tell the truth about 'em!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7407539&mesg_id=7407842

---

ETA: WMWS: I realize you're being sarcastic in this analogy, but keep in mind that we've heard the same thing repeated without sarcasm over and over again on DU. Please understand that I'm not attacking you, but rather the environment in which your analogy is allowed to be made plausible.

:hi:

[MilesColtrane]

71. DOWN GOES HA'IA! DOWN GOES HA'IA!

[JBoy]

83. LOL. He's gonna feel that in the morning.

[Diclotican]

73. IDemo

IDemo

That is just one thing to say, RECPECT for that woman, who deared to do, what no one else want to do... The religious cop, should stop harrashing everyone... And maybe look little into themselfs, and their actions, instead of bullying everyone, as they have been doing for so many year...

This is just one woman but might be the start of something bigger, to not just humilitate the cop, but in fact beat the crap out of him...

Diclotican

[Taverner]

78. Somethings going on and you don't know what it is...

Do you...Mister Jones...

[miyazaki]

89. The coward men would fall apart without the women.

They should all go on strike. Women treated like second class citizens and worse
in these countries has to come to an end sometime. Make it happen faster.

[BrklynLiberal]

90. Good for her!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[femrap]

91. May the women who live under

oppression display their righteous anger with more and more ease.

Wanna beat the Taliban? Arm the women. Arm the women of Darfur so they may gather wood. Where's the NRA on this issue???

[mainer]

101. I've always felt that arming women in these countries was a good first step

Teach women how to use those weapons. Organize women as guards for other women. When a woman steps out of the security of a refugee camp to gather firewood, be sure she has an assault rifle.

[femrap]

125. I thought I would get

crap for mentioning this idea, but I don't think there is any other way for these women to survive. Hell, UN reps were raping these women.

[pundaint]

92. So we blow up Afghan civilians so the Taliban wont come back and abuse women, but

the Saudi's who financed 9/11, and abuse women, and teach their children to hate America in their schools are our best buddies?

[protocol rv]

109. I didn't know that

I thought you had invaded Afghanistan to conquer it, suposedly to get to Osama, it has nothing to do with abuse of women. Otherwise you gringos would have invaded Saudi Arabia first. :-)

[Deep13]

95. Hit him once for me.

I can only hope she does not end up suffering for this.

[ejbr]

97. Rosa Parkesh n/t

[Jester Messiah]

98. Here's hoping others follow her example!

There are more women than there are "vice" bullies. Kitchen knives, rolling pins, bring whatever you've got to the party, and send those bastards home scared, or in bags.

[asdjrocky]

112. This really makes me smile.

Women kick ass.

[superconnected]

119. While it's nice to hear a woman fighting back she is now facing a prison sentence and state beating.

I'm going to guess, in her backwards society, that she is a bit mentally unbalanced to do this when it means a prison term/beating.

[IDemo]

124. People who have been considered heroes in many cases have faced that or worse

Maybe she actually has an independent mind, rather than an unbalanced one. Maybe she recognized that the so-called "religious police" represent a violation of her basic human rights and dignity and chose to act in the only way available to women in that society, short of fleeing the country.

[superconnected]

143. She's best to flee the country. And she best stop beating people up.

That's not the way to promote change. I fear for her. And don't think for a minute I'm pro-saudi arabia on this. I'm not.

[Pushed To The Left]

128. I love it when the religious right gets humbled! n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

129. Um...is this really supposed to be a good thing? How does violence address the plight of women in

Saudi Arabia. Are we sure that the real purpose of this story is not to portray Muslim women as violent and hot headed? Sort of like all the "fiery latin" temper bs the GOP threw at the last Supreme Court nominee.

How do we know that she was not beaten into submission and then the police decided to charge her with resisting arrest the way they do in this country?

[Withywindle]

150. That's not the the prevailing stereotype of Muslim women in the West.

The dominant stereotype is "brainwashed and subservient." This *counteracts* that particular stereotype.

Violence is not a good thing, but *resistance* is. There's a big difference.

[Jester Messiah]

157. It addresses it in the same way that a scalpel addresses a tumor.

Sometimes it's the right tool for the job.

[Arugula Latte]

130. I hope she got in a good extra hard kick to his balls.

Yes I do.

[Jennicut]

133. I am glad she stood up for herself but feel terrible about the punishment she may get.

Lashings and a prison sentence. It is just really wrong.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

142. Seriously, is there any chance this woman can be smuggled out of the country? -nt

[Old Troop]

152. When I was in SA, they were called the Matawa and were hated

by just about everyone. Rumor on the street had it that they had pleasure palaces in remote areas and screwed and drank to their heart's content. They worst thing I saw relating to them was a Matawa whack a young girl with his cane (a kind of reed-like thing)and her western diplomat father apologizing abjectly to the old man rather than defending his daughter.

[gaijinlaw]

153. An Awesome display of Awesomeness

She is my new hero. No matter what happens to her, this was absolutely the right thing to do. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.