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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:21 PM
Original message
A dazzling future for solar power?
Source: CNN

Solar power is expected to provide almost a quarter of the world's electricity supplies by 2050, according to a new report published by the International Energy Agency (IEA).

Eleven percent of total supplies are predicted to come from solar panels on homes and offices while a further 11 percent will be provided by central solar power stations feeding clean electricity to populous areas.

...

The IEA expects North America to be the largest producer of CSP electricity, followed by India and North Africa -- which will likely export half of its output to Europe.

With the right policies in place, the IEA says that solar panels on residential and commercial buildings could compete with traditional electricity supplies by 2020 in many regions. By 2030 the IEA anticipate solar panels will provide five percent of global electricity.

...

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/05/12/solar.energy.iea.report/index.html?section=cnn_latest
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good.
Now if we could just do that here.....
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hope we have less centralized and more diverse energy sources
though I am concerned that solar may be held back by the battery component not having advanced
at the same pace. We'll see.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Compressed air in underground caverns will be the battery
I think that smart grid technology will enable load shifting, thus making renewable wind and solar more "usable".
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. First I've heard mention of "compressed air in underground caverns".
Edited on Wed May-12-10 03:38 PM by Dover
Have any links or info on that you can pass along? Thanks.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. very exciting and promising
this would be a good use of coal mines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed-air_energy_storage
Adiabatic storage retains the heat produced by compression and returns it to the air when the air is expanded to generate power. This is a subject of ongoing study, with no utility scale plants as of 2010. Its theoretical efficiency approaches 100% for large and/or rapidly cycled devices and/or perfect thermal insulation, but in practice round trip efficiency is expected to be 70%.<2> Heat can be stored in a solid such as concrete or stone, or more likely in a fluid such as hot oil (up to 300 °C) or molten salt (600 °C).
Diabatic storage dissipates the extra heat with intercoolers (thus approaching isothermal compression) into the atmosphere as waste. Upon removal from storage, the air must be re-heated prior to expansion in the turbine to power a generator. A natural gas fired burner for utility grade storage or with a heated metal mass for a large Uninterruptible power supply. The lost heat degrades efficiency, but this approach is simpler and is thus far the only system which has been implemented commercially. The McIntosh CAES plant requires 0.69 kilowatt-hours (2,400 BTU) of electricity and 4,100 British thermal units (1.2 kW·h) lower heating value (LHV) of gas for each kilowatt-hour (kW–h) of power output.<3> A General Electric 7FA 2x1 combined cycle plant, one of the most efficient natural gas plants in operation, uses 6,293 BTU (LHV) of gas per kW–h generated,<4> a 54% thermal efficiency comparable to the McIntosh 6,455 BTU, at 53% thermal efficiency.
Isothermal compression and expansion approaches attempt to maintain operating temperature by constant heat exchange to the environment. They are only practical for low power levels, without very effective heat exchangers. The theoretical efficiency of isothermal energy storage approaches 100% for small and/or slowly cycled devices and/or perfect heat transfer to the environment. In practice neither of these perfect thermodynamic cycles are obtainable, as some heat losses are unavoidable.

A different, highly efficient arrangement, which fits neatly into none of the above categories, uses high, medium and low pressure pistons in series, with each stage followed by an airblast venturi that draws ambient air over an air-to-air (or air-to-seawater) heat exchanger between each expansion stage. Early compressed air torpedo designs used a similar approach, substituting seawater for air. The venturi warms the exhaust of the preceding stage and admits this preheated air to the following stage. This approach was widely adopted in various compressed air vehicles such as H. K. Porter, Inc's mining locomotives<5> and trams.<6> Here the heat of compression is effectively stored in the atmosphere (or sea) and returned later on.

Compression can be done with electrically powered turbo-compressors and expansion with turbo 'expanders'<7> or air engines driving electrical generators to produce electricity.

The storage vessel is often an underground cavern created by solution mining (salt is dissolved in water for extraction)<8> or in an abandoned mine. Plants operate on a daily cycle, charging at night and discharging during the day.

Compressed air energy storage can also be employed on a smaller scale such as exploited by air cars or wind farms in steel or carbon-fiber tanks.

very technical sounding, but very interesting.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Scientific American: a-solar-grand-plan
Yes, it is a subscription article. I read it years ago when it was free at Sciam.com. The bullet items on the right do summarize the technology.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan

I seriously suggest that one stops by the library on a rainy day to read it. It was compelling.

:bluebox: a massive switch from coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear power plants to solar power plants could supply 69 percent of the U.S.’s electricity and 35 percent of its total energy by 2050.
:bluebox: A vast area of photovoltaic cells would have to be erected in the Southwest. Excess daytime energy would be stored as compressed air in underground caverns to be tapped during nighttime hours.
:bluebox: Large solar concentrator power plants would be built as well.
:bluebox: A new direct-current power transmission backbone would deliver solar electricity across the country.
:bluebox: But $420 billion in subsidies from 2011 to 2050 would be required to fund the infrastructure
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activa8tr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Sure...........there are lots of them
But here's one Youtube I posted a couple days ago.. that talks about how to store wind power, etc..

There are many more, if you Google around.

http://www.youtube.com/user/greenman3610#p/u/0/llIbjC49Fjs
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activa8tr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Here's another link to the second video about wind:
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yah, there'll be a big empty one in the Gulf before long... /nt
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kicked and recommended although I believe for our own good, we need to drop the question mark.
Thanks for the thread, bananas.:thumbsup:
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. If the frequency conversion problem of nanoantennas can be solved,
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. OMG
I love Eddie Izzard!!
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I wonder what he'd have to say about the possibility of getting
solar power at night, too? ;)
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Eddie is so brilliant, we could tap him for more power.
ha, He would ask, ever so sweetly, where we would want to plug in.

I know I went way off the subject. I am so pro-solar and wind power!

I can't even get how anybody with no investments in petro

could not be thrilled to get off the grid.

Have you heard about the hotel that has an electricity generating stationary bike and they offer guests the chance to work off pounds and part of their bill or to add on luxury perks?

I would love to see this catch on.
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I haven't heard of that hotel; sounds like a great idea :)
Now, I have read about a pedal-powered roller coaster in Japan:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/treehuggerstyle.php

Sky Cycle





(I saw part of a documentary about Eddie recently, but didn't catch the name of it. It was a nicely done bio-pic.)
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
13. When will we get those cheap solar cells they've promised for decades? n/t
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. If you buy PVs now, your electricity will be cheaper than nuke and coal in 10 years
...because nuclear plants add hugely to your rate base and because coal will have to pay for carbon credits. Coal may provide expensive electricity at plants that have carbon capture. Somehow, a plant that has an exhaust pipe that goes miles to an underground sequestration well seems ridiculous.
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joe black Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. Won't happen for most of us.
Need to lower the price of solar panels. It would take me 30 years to pay back the cost.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Timeline
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. $2.50 per watt of capacity
400 watts for $1000
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