Quebec student shaken by U.S. border ordeal

[Newsjock]

Source: CBC News

A young woman from Gatineau, Que., says she was strip-searched and stranded in Windsor, Ont., in the middle of the night by U.S. border officials.

"It was a horrible experience," said Nina Vroemen, 20, who was on her way to volunteer at a California organic farm. "There was no need for that humiliation and mistreatment of a young, female Canadian volunteer."

As of Wednesday morning, U.S. immigration officials had not returned calls about the case.

Vroemen, who studies theatre at Concordia University, set off from Montreal on May 5 on a Greyhound bus. She had found the volunteer job in California through World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms, and thought she would explore the U.S. by bus on the way there. She had previously volunteered through WWOOF in Europe.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/12/gatineau-vroemen-border-windsor.html

[Captain Hilts]

1. Heads should roll. We need to hear more about this. nt

[Oregone]

2. She is lucky she wasn't caught without papers in Arizona

Let that be a lesson to you in the Gestapo country

[Brickbat]

3. The strip search is unacceptable.

IIRC, she needed a work permit to volunteer at the farm and it sounds like she didn't have one. But she didn't need to be strip searched for that.

[Xithras]

4. She did screw up very badly.

There was absolutely NO reason for her to be strip searched and fingerprinted, but the original stop was valid.

Under U.S. law, you are not a volunteer if you are working in exchange for room and board. Those things have a value, and U.S. citizens working in exchange for them are expected to pay taxes on their value. Legally, there is no such thing as a compensated volunteer.

She showed up on the border and told the border agent that she was on her way to perform compensated agricultural work in California, but she did not have a work permit or a green card. Legally, the border guards had no choice but to deny her entry.

The stupid thing about this is that, by her own admission, she didn't see this as work. She saw it as a way to travel and meet new friends. In other words, she was entering the United States as a tourist for pleasure. If she had just told the border guard that, they'd have let her through. Once she made it seem like she was coming here for employment, there was no chance of her gaining entry.

[CreekDog]

8. She didn't "screw up very badly" -- you are off base

perhaps she made a mistake.

but screwing up very badly?

i hate to think what you say to your kids when they scrape their knees..."you've made a very serious mistake...we'll see what needs to be done to correct your horrendous mistake"

:eyes:

[Xithras]

14. Actually...

I'm not a very "coddly" parent, and have a low tolerance for stupidity...even from my own children :evilgrin:

But she did screw up pretty badly here. Five minutes Googling US entry visa requirements and prohibitions, or a single phone call to the US Consulate, would have saved her a lot of trouble. A little common sense should have told her that you should never mention WORKING when trying to enter a foreign country as a tourist. While the HHS agents obviously overreacted with the strip search, she DID essentially walk up to them and declare her intention to enter the U.S. and violate the law. What were they supposed to do?

By the way, the word "horrendous" has a finite window of applicability when constructing a sentence. It is of the same root as "horror" and "horrific", and should only be used in situations where those words would also be utilized. A scraped knee hardly qualifies ;)

[CreekDog]

15. So my use of the word "horrendous" was an example of me "screwing up very badly"

uh huh. :eyes:

[Xithras]

19. I only have one thing to say about that.

:P

I was diagnosed with mild ASD nearly 15 years ago, and it comes out in my writing sometimes. Give me a break :dunce:

[CreekDog]

20. .

:rofl:

[pundaint]

17. Stupid girl hasn't learned to lie at borders yet...is that really your point?

Shouldn't the stupid grown-up country be getting it's scared head out of it's ass?

[Joe Chi Minh]

21. it's a weird thing about these threads reporting criminal over-reactions

- in this case, possibly sexually-depraved behaviour - by US law-enforcement personnel of one stripe or another.

Someone posts here, reporting it, then a swarm of other DUers respond, either by claiming it was perfectly justified by the behaviour or even the demeanour of the victim, or, as in this case, admitting the enormity of it, really, in passing, and then going on to write a whole screed about what bureaucratic or security dereliction the victim nevertheless might have been guilty of. The post was not written in order to elicit from those knowledgeable on the subject, the particular applicable regulations, or the lack of wisdom of the victim in breeching one or more of them, but to report an UNFORGIVABLE OUTRAGE!

Just, no sense of proportion or relevance to the very simple issue of the unambiguous outrage by a public servant(s) perpetrated on a member of the public - one that would be quite inconceivable in Europe, for example, in such a context; probably, no other first or second-world country.

[CreekDog]

29. +1

:hi:

[Mojeoux]

27. The strip search was a bad screw up.

Years ago when I came home to Detroit from visiting Toronto, I was were rudely searched along with another young woman . They said they thought we might be commies from Cuba? Then they read aloud from my friend's diary, for sport. After we were searched and deemed to be Detroiters, they kept us there and laughed and mocked my friends private thoughts.

It was gross. It's hard to think of these people with respect. They were paunchy pricks with power.

[ShamelessHussy]

24. sure, blame the victim

shakes-head

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

30. The issue here was probably lack of material ties to Canada

To be eligible for B1 status, which is issued to Canadians at the border you have to demonstrate both the ability and intent to leave the United States. To this end a B1 or B2 recipient must present proof of their ties to their homeland. For instance a lease on an apartment, registration on a car, children enrolled in school etc and above all else EMPLOYMENT.

B1 or B2 (if there is even such as B2 for Canadians) would have been sufficient.

If this chick is some sort of roaming bohemian living out of a duffel bag, that is going to be a pretty big red flag at the border.

And whatever your business traveling to our fine country from Canada, I strongly suggest only entering by air. US Customs is pretty careful about their staffing of "border crossings" in Canadian airports since they don't want to get thrown out on their ass. While land crossings are staffed by the worst bags of shit our fine country has to offer.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. According to this website, International Voluntary Service, Volunteers for Peace, Canadian

citizens do not have to have a B1/B2 American Visa.

http://www.vfp.org/usVolunteer.html

VOLUNTEERS FROM CANADA
All travelers entering the United States must have a valid passport!

ALL OTHER VOLUNTEERS
MUST apply for a B1/B2 visitor visa in advance, through the US embassy in their country of residence.

[Crowman1979]

6. Maybe if our damn US State Department bothered to show people the steps and documents needed..

...in order to work or be educated here, then we would have to do any of these police state tactics. Of course I still believe the strip-search was totally excessive and who ever took part should be fired.

[notadmblnd]

7. Wait a minute. I've crossed that border hundreds of times

The Canadian border officers are on both the Windsor side of the tunnel and bridge. The Detroit border officials are on the Detroit side of the bridge and tunnel. Those are the only two ways into the US from Windsor Ontario. Generally when you leave Detroit you are not asked anything by the Americans, it is when you are entering that you are questioned. When you get to the Canadian side, they generally ask what you are coming into the country for; Casino, Clubs, etc. If she was stopped in Windsor, she was stopped by Canadians because if She was stopped in US the article should have read she was stopped in Detroit.

[Art_from_Ark]

43. The bus arrived at the US border

She was denied entry into the US by US immigration. Thus, she had to return to Windsor, in the middle of the night, apparently without transportation to return to her home town. Thus, she was stranded in Windsor.

[Andronex]

9. "volunteer at a California organic farm"

Sounds subversive! she must be an enemy combatant...

[superconnected]

11. Plenty of Republicans would find her an enemy of the state for that.

Thank goodness she didn't wear a peace sign. She could have ended up in Gitmo as Republicans brain-fried vision of anti-Amerikan.

I'm still not over my republican boss telling me all peace protestor's should be lined up and shot for not supporting the Iraq war and therefore were anti-American.

[Divine Discontent]

13. totally! it SOUNDS like a rethug patrol heard that & thought pothead & for pentup jollies had her

strip-searched.

regardless, sounds a bit much for what she was being so honest in telling.

[harmonicon]

10. she should just be glad she isn't a sci-fi author

... they beat the shit out of them at the border.

[UndertheOcean]

12. Open Borders NOW ! n/t

[pundaint]

18. That's just silly

[MellowDem]

23. I vote that you open your home up first. Anyone who wants to live there, can...

Don't worry, you'll figure it out.

[UndertheOcean]

26. Borders between states are open , and it is working fine. n/t

[MellowDem]

28. Yes, because it is under one federal government...

and until there is one world government, it's going to be impossible to make open borders work. I understand the idea of open borders as an ideal to be strived for, but until then, it's just a dream.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

31. Works just great in the European Union,

A schengen type arrangement between Canada and the US is just common sense, but the Canadian left and American right would never go for it.

[MellowDem]

36. Well, if you mean open borders just....

for America and Canada, but it sounded like open borders period. The most controversial part of something like the EU is that countries give up some of their autonomy to an even larger organization. And in the case of the EU, much of the body isn't directly elected by the people, which is seen as somewhat controversial nad anti-democratic by some.

A glaring problem with something like the EU is illustrated by the situation in Greece right now, where their hands are tied somewhat on what they can do because they are part of the EU. It's why Britain hasn't gone to the Euro yet and why there are the Euro skeptics.

I think the EU is probably the most interesting political "experiment" (it often seems like one) that is going on right now, because it is testing those waters of how to move forward towards a world of greater cooperation and integration. But it does mean having less independance as nation states, and that will be a tough pill for many people to swallow, as nation state's often have different or even competing interests.

It kind of reminds me of the Federalist debates. Except in this case the centrailzed government will have to preside over a much more diverse and complex set of nation states than 13 colonies.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

38. Schengen is just a customs union

The only person to suggest a North America Common Market was candidate Reagan thirty years ago.

[provis99]

16. the comments on the original story's site are pretty revolting.

Calls of her being a communist, taking jobs away from Americans (Mexicans?), saying she was a drug mule, etc. No wonder America is the most hated nation in history.

[MellowDem]

22. Is it the most hated nation in history?

:eyes:

Too bad they didn't take polls on that for, oh, most of history. Or even now. But they did take a poll on how the world views different country's influence as recently as 2010. Here are the bottom five of the 27 participating:

"In contrast, Iran is the least favourably viewed nation (15%), followed by Pakistan (16%), North Korea (17%), Israel (19%), and Russia (30%)" With the percentages reflecting the number of people viewing them as having a positive, rather than a negative, influence. http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/views_on_countriesregions_bt/660.php?nid=&id=&pnt=660&lb=

And this is why all the hyperbole on this site is absolutely ridiculous. My God, a border agent acted like an asshole, the whole nation is NAZI!. It's hard to take this place seriously.

[rockymountaindem]

33. +1

[Fastcars]

25. Couple of things

In the body of the article it says "She was told to take off everything except her jumper and was patted down." Not what I envision when I think of a "strip" search. Wonder what all she had on other than a jumper? Are we talking about a coat and boots?

Canadian Customs does the same thing. I was taking a bus to Canada for a hockey try-out camp and had to take two of the guys helping with the camp back to Port Huron and leave them there. We were told they were taking Canadian jobs. Even though we were going there looking to hire Canadians to work in the States. Border guards on both sides don't have much lee-way once you say the word "work".

Sounds like a tempest in a tea pot to me. Maybe I am missing something.

[ManiacJoe]

32. Failure by WWOOF.

WWOOF should have been providing the needed documentation for the border crossing.

[New Dawn]

34. Another example of USA's "free and open" society.

[The abyss]

35. Breathe easy citizens

<>


<>

<>

All is well.

[kwassa]

37. My squeaky clean cousin was strip-searched at Windsor.

There is no one less likely in my vast extended family to be smuggling contraband. Back then it was about drugs.

This was 30 years ago. I was given shit by a US border guard when myself and friends coming home from college via Canada, in a blizzard at 3 am, same time frame.

[alp227]

39. "They took our jobs" can apply to Canadians too?

Sometimes border patrol and airport security erases the line between reasonable searches and total control. Sheesh. Why strip search her anyway? I have just so many questions.

If Vroemen were a Mexican national at the US/Mexico border (ESPECIALLY in Arizona!!!!) then this would've been much worse. Amirite?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

40. No, interestingly enough...

"Dey tuk er jerbs!" doesn't appear to apply to Europeans, Canadians, Australians, Chileans or anglicized Orientals.

[rockymountaindem]

41. Mmm... you'd be surprised

A friend of mine from Canada who is here for an MA program is getting the boot and has to be out of the country by September. Evidently, try as she might she can't find a way to stay here.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. i'm more talking about public rage than immigration policy

I have heard all sorts of racially tinged immigration arguments over the years from everyone from welders to a CEO but certain groups never seem to come up.