Documents: Toyota boasted saving $100M on recall

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP



By KEN THOMAS

WASHINGTON (AP) - Toyota officials claimed they saved the company $100 million by successfully negotiating with the government on a limited recall of floor mats in some Toyota and Lexus vehicles, according to new documents shared with congressional investigators.

Toyota, in an internal presentation in July 2009 at its Washington office, said it saved $100 million or more by negotiating an "equipment recall" of floor mats involving 55,000 Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles in September 2007.

The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota - Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements.

The documents were turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and obtained by The Associated Press on Sunday. The presentation was first reported by The Detroit News.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100221/D9E0RUSG1.html

---

Smoking GUN with 6 spent chambers!

[Zynx]

1. Jesus. This just keeps getting worse.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PSPS]

2. Another dismal legacy of the bush junta

[Walk away]

3. Because regulations are bad.....

more business profits at the expense of people's lives are good! Maybe we can do the same for banking and health care.....oh wait, we already do!

[jody]

4. What did you expect from the government of a corporate state?

[boomerbust]

24. Bad news

For the Alabama non union gang.

[jody]

61. What do union or non-union workers have to do with a design defect? n/t

[Kingofalldems]

5. Special Prosecutor needed on this one

[Wilms]

6. Something like Ford and the Pinto.

Now all we need is for Toyota to get away with it and the allegory will be complete.

[Mopar151]

28. This is much larger than the Pinto.

The problem with Pintos occurred in a specific type of multi-car crash. Toyota's troubles are multiple, both in type and year, and cross model lines - and Ford's Pinto issues were handled correctly, once the issue was turned over to the engineering and service orginizations within Ford. And they were not the only make with this issue- I personally did dozens of recall retrofits on Chevettes, and the Chevrolet pickup gas tank fire issue was much more extensive.

[Wilms]

41. I was referring to the "Ford Pinto Memo"

Pinto Memo

The following figures are drawn from the 1968 memorandum written by and circulated amongst senior management
at the Ford Motor Company concerning cost-benefit analysis of retrofitting the Pinto before sending the car into the marketplace.


Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires


Expected Costs of producing the Pinto with fuel tank modifications:

* Expected unit sales: 11 million vehicles (includes utility vehicles built on same chassis)
* Modification costs per unit: $11.00
* Total Cost: $121 million
(= 11,000,000 vehicles x $11.00 per unit)


Expected Costs of producing the Pinto without fuel tank modifications:

* Expected accident results (assuming 2100 accidents):
180 burn deaths
180 serious burn injuries
2100 burned out vehicles
* Unit costs of accident results (assuming out of court settlements):
$200,000 per burn death*
$67,000 per serious injury
$700 per burned out vehicle
* Total Costs: $49.53 million
(= (180 deaths x $200k) + (180 injuries x $67k) + (2100 vehicles x $700 per vehicle))

http://www.calbaptist.edu/dskubik/pinto.htm

[Mopar151]

47. Ugly, no doubt.

but I stand by my statement about Toyout's problems - in part, because of examples like the Pinto and some of GM's "prizes" - because Toyota's executives did this repeatedly, and with the weight of history against them.

[BeatleBoot]

7. The "cover-up" continues.

Pathetic.

[Gman2]

8. I am a process engineer, and this type of collusion goes on all the time.

[boppers]

11. +1 eom

[No Elephants]

81. Govt agencies, paid for with taxpayer $$, are supposed to protect consumers.

Lobbyists, paid for with corporate $$, are supposed to protect corporations.

Congress, also paid for with taxpayer $$, is supposed to decide the balance, with the ultimate goal of benefiting business to be benefiting the taxpayer.

Instead, lobbyists, Congress and government agencies, two of which are paid for with taxpayer $$, all work to benefit business, with the untested assumption being that everyhing that benefits business benefits America.

We pay for Congress and the Executive Branch, yet we need lobbyists, too.

Shameful.

[ingac70]

9. kicking.

[jmowreader]

10. I can just imagine the board meeting

"If we get away with this, our reputations, our company finances and our brand will be only slightly damaged.

"If we DON'T get away with this, our reputations will be shot, our company will be bankrupt and no one will ever want a Toyota again.

"On the OTHER hand, seppuku was abolished in 1873."

[JNelson6563]

12. Hoo-boy.

This is getting ugly.

[Gman2]

19. What makes it ugly is: ISO 900X certs. They can be used to hang you.l

[TwentyFive]

13. How does Toyota compare with Ford, GM and Chrysler?

The real news story is horrible track record of domestic cars are far worse. Exploding gas tanks, engine fires, flimsy roofs & rollovers on the domestics killed thousands...Toyota is not even a blip on the radar. Yet, who'd know, based on the media accounts.

[blue_onyx]

16. Nonsense

The denial shown by Toyota loyalist is shocking.

[madrchsod]

17. toyota has had problems for years

they screwed together their cars better but they have made some big mistakes. engines that had to be recalled because of sludging,piston slap,and front suspension alignment problems. a couplr of years ago they had to recall autos and trucks because of sub standard suspension parts.yet they demand perfection from their suppliers( i worked for one)...which raises the question-where was their receiving quality control?

i drive a 94 camry and it is a nice car. but the piston slap is noticeable at 140,00. i had a 92 honda with 250,000 and the engine was as tight as a drum. in fact the accord was a better all around car than the 94 toyota.

[Kolesar]

45. My friend's Toyota Matrix wrecked the first set of tires at 10,000 miles

due to an alignment problem. They were severely cupped; I have never seen anything like it, myself. Once the "front end" was realigned, the problem went away.

$400.00 was spent replacing tires that were certainly not due for replacement.

[Mopar151]

48. Sadly, American roads are getting so bad

The car coulda been perfect from the showroom, and gotten beaten up that badly on the street! And there are some AWFUL OE tires out there. I was a dealership alignment tech 30 years ago- I never saw a Uniroyal PR6 or Firestone 721 that was truly round. My friend the lightbulb engineer drives Hondas - he says "The key to happiness with a Japanese car is understand that the OE tires are only intended to protect the rims in shipment."

[Codeine]

59. My Matrix was notorious

for eating tires. Moot point after I wrapped it around a tree, but still. . .

[ingac70]

21. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrwmgwJM0Bs

[Mopar151]

29. You have this backwards.....

Toyota has gotten away with this stuff before, in spades. it's not just defects - it's ducking the whole recall/notification process.

[fasttense]

79. This is the 1st poster I have read to quote the I love Toyota everyone else is bad too RepubliCON

talking point on DU.

I've heard this talking point on the TV and radio. I guess it's like a virus that spreads.

We Must defend all corporations to the bitter end because....

This is the free market at its best. Killing people for fun and profits.

[madrchsod]

15. the bigger they are..the harder they fall.

their 50% profits from the us market is taking a big hit while ford and gm is kicking their ass with better automoblies

[Blue_Tires]

18. this is getting damn near Ford Pinto level of scandal

[depakid]

20. Not quite, but it's sure going to cost them a lot more in the end than their bean counters "saved"

Pretty major write off of good will to boot.

[ingac70]

23. They've killed more people than Pinto. n/t

[Mopar151]

30. It passed the Pinto issue in scope years ago.

see my post on the Pinto issue upthread.

[defendandprotect]

22. Obviously, a change in thinking/principles at Toyato -- giving up success for failure . ..!!

And quite an opening for US auto manufacturers -- how lucky!!!

hmmm..

[hogwyld]

26. The Domestics may have an opening...

But I am wholly confident that they'll find a way to flush it down the toilet...

[defendandprotect]

27. IMO, they want to flush hybrids/electric cars --

GM and oil industry -- perfect together??

[Mopar151]

32. Toyota has been burying their problems

and bypassing the recall process for a couple decades. Their ideal was to fix the problem without the owner's knowledge, while it was in for routine service - and it happened a lot.

[alp227]

25. And that $100m is gonna get flushed fast in PR, legal settlements, repairs, etc.

A saving to regret. K&R.

[joeglow3]

31. So, when will the lovers of foreign car companies here finally admit they are wrong?

I have defended the US made cars here for years, saying the US cars have eliminated the quality gap and, in MANY cases, surpassed foreign automakers. I have always been shocked how many people throw the American made cars (and their employees) under the bus. Is there anyone here who will try to argue US made cars now?

[Mopar151]

33. Plenty of 'em, sad to say

Many Toyota owners took pride in their ability to buy the "right" car, with the best reliability ratings. And many of the problems on older 'Yotas bypassed the inital owners, and clobbered the 2nd or 3rd.

[Lugnut]

40. You won't get an argument from me.

We have purchased mostly GM vehicles for the past 40+ years. We've had some crappy ones - '77 GMC Suburban and '79 GMC Sierra - that needed extensive body work due to substandard bodies and paint finishes. The engines and drive trains were solid while the bodies were less than acceptable but we needed the trucks to tow a 29 foot travel trailer.

We tried one '90 Dodge RamVan and an '85 Ford Escort wagon that were both disappointing. The Dodge was an exceptionally reliable vehicle but the paint flew off it in sheets. The Escort was also reliable but the tranny blew at 70,000 miles.

I'm now on my second Buick. The first one was a LeSabre and I'm currently driving a 2002 Century. It's fuel efficient, reliable and the body is still is great shape. The other half finally sold his '79 Sierra and bought a new Chevy S-10 in 2001. It too has been a dependable vehicle that can easily get through a foot of snow and has had no mechanical or body problems.

Since we no longer own a travel trailer we both opted for smaller vehicles for fuel efficiency. GM's offerings have worked well for us.

[Mopar151]

50. Our '04 Freestar ("Vanna") has been excellent

Especially since we bought the extended warranty, so the torque converter failure was only an inconvenience. We had an '01 Malibu ("Ivy") that was a very good car as well. When Mom's VW was possessed by stealthy demons and the rust monster, we hookek her up with an '03 Malibu (same color, even) from the same folks. We use a dealer with a huge wholesale leasing business. They sell the top 30-40% of lease returns on their lot, wholesale the rest... Though Vanna is a local trade, from Mrs. Mopar's co-worker.

[depakid]

49. American car manufacturers produced crap for DECADES and dug their own graves

So I think someone else here is long overdue for a reality check... which, considering that they now own two of the big thee- they might want to bear in mind.

[Mopar151]

51. And they've been digging their way out since the early 90's n/t

[depakid]

52. LOL- yep, that's why they went belly up

producing such fine vehicles.

One would hope that they've learned their lesson this time. We shall see.

[joeglow3]

53. I am damn happy with our 2005 Town & Country

We went to an individual we trust to purchase a 2005 minivan last year. The 2 choices were the T&C and an Odyssey. They were both fully loaded and had about 28,000 miles. The T&C was about $14,000 and the Odyssey was about $19,000. I told the guy I was willing to puchase either, but wanted to know what I was getting with the extra $5,000. He flat out told me I was getting the perception of an ignorant public that is will to pay more for a company that produced a superior product 10-15 years ago.

We went home and did some research and sure enough, the T&C rated higher than the Odyssey in the JD Power and Associate ratings. Thus, we could pay $5,000 more for a less reliable car without the Stow N Go feature (which we LOVE).

The problem is we have a public that is lazy, unwilling to do their own research and willing to make huge decisions based on what gets reported to them. The foreign automakers knew this and made billions off of these ignorant sheep. Fortunately, the piper is calling know.

However, you are right about one thing. The corporations should know how ignorant and easily manipulated the general public is.

[Mopar151]

56. It has more to do with healthcare costs

Which cost mare than the steel to build the car.

[Romulox]

58. Says Mr. Thank GAWD it passed!!!!! Love your hard hitting "free market" analyses!

:rofl:

[depakid]

62. Still having difficulty rejoining the reality based community, I see

[Mopar151]

65. You ever drive a '70's Toyota after the 1st owner?

How about a Fiat 128? Or a Mazda Rotary (fast, great fun, burned gas like a Corvette and oil like a tramp steamer)! Remember Yugo's? Or the Renault Alliance, or LeCar?

[Romulox]

57. You can tell who drives a Toyota by the rationalizations.

How do GM's travails make Toyota's malfeasance any less reprehensible? And how do they make your car any safer? They don't.

Please get the recall work done ASAP! Keep calling if the line is busy! :hi:

[depakid]

66. You can tell who has a personal stake in the big 3 by watching those who jump on the bandwagon

while ignoring the long history of problems in their own backyard.

Speaks not only to credibility- but also to integrity.

[Mopar151]

68. Do you care to elaborate on that?

Or are you still stuck on the moral superority of coal-by-proxy vs. petroleum?

[Romulox]

70. "History" isn't going to make your car safer. Please get the recall work done!

And I don't have any stake in the big 3, save some Ford stock bought on the cheap, so guess again, Mr. Thank GAWD It Passed! :hi:

[CatWoman]

34. kick

[kpete]

35. Documents: Toyota Boasted Saving $100M On Recall

Source: Associated Press

Feb 21, 2010 4:30 pm US/Eastern
Documents: Toyota Boasted Saving $100M On Recall
WASHINGTON (AP) ―


New documents shared with congressional investigators show that Toyota officials boasted saving $100 million by successfully negotiating with the government on a limited recall over complaints of sudden acceleration.

The documents were turned over to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and were obtained by The Associated Press on Sunday.

In an internal presentation in July 2009, Toyota said it saved $100 million by negotiating an "equipment recall" of floor mats involving 55,000 Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles in September 2007.

The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota-Safety Group."

Read more: http://wcbstv.com/topstories/toyota.recall.savings.2.1509206.html

[xultar]

36. So the people who died since then, what'd they win? Which repubs were there?

[Brickbat]

37. I'm glad Toyota is finally, FINALLY being unveiled for what it is.

I know there are some apologists who will refuse to see. But I hope many people realize that Toyota is not the squishy, unicorn-fart company people like to tell themselves it is.

[divideandconquer]

38. Subaru advertises that they are "built with love", sounds like they are built by santa's elves

They're really owned by Toyota:(

[Cirque du So-What]

39. Well, 16.7% of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru's parent company) is owned by Toyota N/T

[Brickbat]

46. Somebody, and I'm sorry I can't remember who, said a few weeks ago that the Toyotas were being

recalled just because workers "wanted to give them one more hug." It was the funniest thing I'd ever seen on DU.

[schrodinger_I]

42. German cars all the way!

I am on my 6th BMW and second Mercedes. No serious safety or reliability issues to speak of.

[Mopar151]

54. Unless you count the E-36 body roofs

That, according to friends in the BMW club, fold up in a light rollover. And if your'e laying out boodle for an E-30 M-3, check the known to be fragile rear suspension, and verify the mileage - oh yeah, a cylinder leakdown test might be nice. A "reman" long block is is about $8000 +install. Let us know how that maintainence cost is treatin' ya.
And I LIKE Bimmers. If I hit the powerball lotto, I'll be lookin' for a 750 with the V-12.

[Oldtimeralso]

43. I had a nightmare last night.

I saw myself driving a Ford Pinto on a very narrow one way road with canyon walls on both sides and saw in my rearview mirror a Toyota coming at a high rate of speed.

[WriteDown]

55. Was there a Ford Explorer on Firestone tires up ahead?

:rofl:

[Kablooie]

44. And of course our government approved it.

Looks like they got conned by the Bush administration.
Fell right into their trap.

[Romulox]

60. Is this satire? The Devil made Toyota do it?

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

63. Companies do like that profit margin...

Companies do like that profit margin-- and who better to pass the costs onto. Just one more example of one more multi-national's regard for people worldwide...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

64. "Kill Toyota"

Right or wrong, that's clearly the word on the street.

[Romulox]

71. LOLOL. This is so dumb! nt

[Generator]

67. Two words:Cheap Priuses

If that doesn't wet a liberal panty, there is no hope for you people.

[Mopar151]

69. Stereotype much?

Some of us care where stuff (like lithium, sumarium and cobalt) comes from, and who (indentured Malaysians or fairly paid Americans) makes it.

[Generator]

75. It was funny

something lost here of course. Why do I waste time on you people? People that need sarcasm smiley to have fun. Blah.

And actually I AM hoping the cost of the prius goes down as I am probably going to be stuck with my old Corolla forever.

That was my first thought. CHEAPER Toyotas! Yeah. I can have my own opinion that isn't boring and a stereotype, thank you very much. Your offense is the stereotype. Not me. I didn't even start driving until over 40 so I am liberal stereotype. I hate SUV's, so there!

WHY? Where is the fun? Where is the humour? Goddamn it, that was good joke. wasted again.

Oh I know-Toyota's not funny. 34 people died in 10 years because of this problem and it's the outrage of the fucking year on DU-that many were killed on the weekend in Afghanistan supported by our peace loving prez, but never mind. Toyotas-the real killer. Pardon me while I call your reality a joke.

[Mopar151]

77. Larry the Cable Guy of DU

When you have to say it's funny - it's not. The Toyota issue has a lot more to it than deaths/million miles. Toyota has successfully evaded recalls and manipulated consumer perception for decades.
Most manufacturers have foisted a godawful car or 3 on the market at some time, FWIW. You want guffaws from a car guy, talk about the Renault Alliance - Motor Trend Car of the Year decal in the back window, flames shootin' from under the hood....
And how many times must I shout from the mountaintop - HYBRIDS ARE NOT THE ANSWER FOR EVERYONE! TDI Diesels outperform them in many situations, and I expect similar results from the new direct injection engines from Ford.

[c brand]

72. And the Big 3 never boasted about their savings for noncompliance?

[Romulox]

73. Not in the last 30 years or more, no. Welcome to 2010. nt

[LanternWaste]

74. Word on the street is that...

Word on the street is that historical precedent is irrelevant in auto threads; unless it happened in the last American news cycle, it either didn't really happen or simply doesn't apply anymore.

[Romulox]

76. ANOTHER Toyota owner with hurt feelings looking to point fingers. How unusual!

:silly:

[Nihil]

78. FWIW, that applies to far more than just the car threads. (n/t)

[DainBramaged]

80. It amazes me you gravitate towards these threads like a moth to a flame

:eyes: