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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:18 PM
Original message
TSA to swab airline passengers' hands in search for explosives
Source: CNN

Washington (CNN) -- To the list of instructions you hear at airport checkpoints, add this: "Put your palms forward, please."

The Transportation Security Administration soon will begin randomly swabbing passengers' hands at checkpoints and airport gates to test them for traces of explosives.

Previously, screeners swabbed some carry-on luggage and other objects as they searched for the needle in the security haystack -- components of terrorist bombs in an endless stream of luggage.

But after the Christmas Day attempted bombing of Northwest Flight 253 over Detroit, Michigan, the TSA began a program of swabbing passengers' hands, which could be contaminated by explosive materials, experts say. The TSA will greatly expand the swabbing in the coming weeks, the agency said.

"The point is to make sure that the air environment is a safe environment," Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told CNN. "We know that al Qaeda terrorists continue to think of aviation as a way to attack the United States. One way we keep it safe is by new technology random use of different types of technology."


Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/17/tsa.hands.swabbing/index.html?hpt=T1
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. OMG. Glove bombs! Be afraid . . . be VERY afraid . . .
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
61. How about condoms bombs???
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. latex gloves and GoJo... the terrorists defeat yet another "security" measure
Next?
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. God help you if you fertilized the lawn yesterday
It's getting preposterous.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Or if you or anyone you touch . . .
. . . takes nitroglycerin for angina.
I once got detained because my laptop tested positive for nitro. Three days before, the wife of a man who had a nitro patch used my computer for about a minute.
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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. god help you if you use hand lotions
they are notorious for setting off trace detection equipment......most of them contain glycerin
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Can you imagine how many false positives they are likely to get?
We are exposed to so many damned chemicals on a daily basis....
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. And how many innocent people will be hassled, insulted, etc.,
because of false positives?



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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. Probably quite a few, but I haven't and my hands have been swabbed before every flight since 2001
The only annoyance is that it takes about 5-10 minutes longer to get through security, which I build into my schedule --but since I'm one of those people who always shows up 1.5 hours before a flight, I haven't actually changed my schedule since it was already padded to begin with.

I've had nearly 100% polite and friendly TSA agents for the additional screening. I know there are idiots, like the guy who made that boy in Philly take off his braces and walk --that guy should be fired and possibly charged with something criminal. But generally my experience has been good, oh, maybe one or two mild annoyances --and actually they were when all this security was ramping up rather than recently.

I will say that the one benefit to extra screening is that you don't need to take off your shoes --well I do but only so the agents won't harangue me to do it.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
71. Your hands were swabbed before EVERY flight since 9/11?
How many times have you flown since 9/11?
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. Every single flight I've taken (probably flown 50-75 times since 2002)
Edited on Thu Feb-18-10 01:07 PM by CreekDog
if you can't go through the metal detector without setting it off, that's pretty much how it goes.

except my hands weren't swabbed when I flew out of Montreal, but all US flights they were.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. A Bat Shit crazy Organization
Run by imbeciles
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. No kidding. I've seen them swab kids' toys such as teddy bears - the kind
of toys that end up in kids' mouths.

Imbeciles is too kind a word.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
59. If they swab anything, they most definitely should be swabbing teddy bears.
If you think every third person is a terraist, why would you
exempt teddy bears from searches? They seem like an easy
and obvious vehicle within which to conceal a bomb.

"Hello, I'm Teddy Ruxpin, and we're going to have a blast together!"

Tesha
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Yep, those teddy bears and other plush toys held by
small children who've just been to Disney World are potential weapons of terror.

Ridiculous.

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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Are you serious?
Why do you suppose that a sufficiently-motivated terraist wouldn't
resort to *EXACTLY* that sort of ploy? After all, aren't they planning
on killing everyone on the plane anyway, including all the women
and kids?

Tesha
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. +1
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
64. That could be said about the whole country could it not?
.
.
.

I lived in San Diego for over a year '79 - 80

At one time I dwelled with 2 vets(both under 30 yrs old) from Vietnam

The tales were unbelievable . .

then, not now

(sigh)

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #64
75. Lots of INCOMPETENTS in charge
Snipe Chasing
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proudohioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good old fashioned road trips are starting to sound better and better..n/t
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I had to stop flying 20 years ago because of a chronic sinus condition.
And i don't miss it a bit.
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Chicago dyke Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. no doubt
but really, i'd worry more about drugs. they can swab test for those already, and have been for a while. given how much of our money is exposed to drugs, i wouldn't be surprised to see a few false positive hands in that way as well.
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Stumbler Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
54. Agreed.
I've decided a while ago that if I'm traveling to a destination on the mainland, it'll be by car or train. The only time I'll subject myself to this silliness is when I want to visit Europe, Hawaii or some other destination that can't be reached by car or rail. And thanks to my lack of employment, I won't be planning any of those types of vacations anytime soon.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Right now, my "I'm definitely driving!" radius extends from my home in New Hampshire...
...all the way to Toronto, Pittsburgh, and DC. And I'd give serious thought
to *ANY* destination within the 48 contiguous states and Canada.

Tesha
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Please do not fly on airlines any longer.
That will leave an empty seat in my row, and will help assure a more relaxing flight for my wife and I.

Thank you for your cooperation.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
70. You know what I'd like to see in these threads...

...is for people to include their annual air miles.

Of course, they'd make up numbers, but I'm willing to bet the ones saying "no more flights" don't fly very much.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. Yup. That's almost a given.
I don't fly as much as I used to, but TSA security isn't really that much of an issue for me. I follow the rules and always just pass right through. I marvel, though, at the folks who ignore all the signs and try to get through security without paying attention to anything. They're really annoying, since they hold up the rest of us.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Next up: random body cavity searches.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. +1
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. And just what kind of cheminicals are in those swabs?
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 01:02 PM by RC
10 minutes after take off, your hands start itching and turning red because you have an allergy to something in the swabs.

Just strip us naked, give us something to knock us out and stack us like cord-wood. no need for seats. That's all we are to them anyway.
If the airlines are so worried about their planes, why do they let all those people on them in the first place?
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tango-tee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. Big snort!
RC, I have additional suggestions: First, put us in quarantine for a minimum of three days before take-off. Under strict surveillance. Prohibit all conversation and possibly suspicious looks exchanged among the prospective inhabitants (speak: terrrrrists) of the cattle car, err.... aircraft. Check excrements for traces of explosives (Note to self: Do not indulge in bean burritos before attempting to visit granny). Then drug us so that we will be completely docile before loading. No luggage allowed. Buy your damn toothbrush, comb, shorts and shirt at your destination. And so that our flabby asses, beer bellies and sagging boobs won't insult others' sense of esthetics, provide one-size-fits-all paper gowns.

But then again, by that time nobody will give a rat's ass.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. "randomly swabbing passengers' hands"
"Security experts consulted by CNN said swabbing hands is a good move, and privacy advocates said they support the new swabbing protocols, provided the agency tests only for security-related objects and does not discriminate when it selects people to be tested."

Does this mean four year old boys in leg braces will be just as likely to be swabbed as men whose parents have turned over their names to our government as having terrorist ties and who may be trying to pass themselves off as not having a valid passport because they are political refugees?

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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Of course not. It probably means the four-year-old will be checked *more* often. (nt)
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
53. Explosive babies are no laughing matter if AlQaeda gets em early.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Swab my hands? Sure! Start with this finger first...


Swab away...!!!
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Swab our hands with what?
I have a lot of allergies. I don't want to have to spend my vacation nursing blisters on my palms.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Good question.
I'd rather risk having my hands swabbed than go through a full body scanner but only if I know what, if any. potential adverse reactions are associated with the material in the swab.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. A Q-Tip /nt
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. Somewhere in a cave...
Bin Laden is laughing his ass off.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. Avoid anything containing ammonia
and definately don't go through whistling Ammonia a bird in a gilded cage........
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. Ooof.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. they are killing the air travel industry - no wonder brazil got the olympics
it is too hard to travel here and the more we bomb and kill others the more they will want to retaliate
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. um, it is actually just as difficult if not more so to travel to brazil
check out the visa requirements if you plan to visit there

to pretend that traveling to the usa is more difficult than traveling to brazil (and several other south american countries in its sphere of influence) is dishonest and ridiculous

i jumped thru more hoops and paperwork getting a visa to visit bolivia than family members did when visiting the soviet union -- at the time of the 1980 usa boycott of that nation!!!

the swab is just not that big of a deal and it does catch people who have been handling explosives recently, i'm not aware of the usa bombing or killing anyone in either nigeria or yemen, the kid who tried to bomb us is a mentally ill malcontent, usa's actions or lack of actions have no bearing on why he tried to kill americans (not to mention that plenty of other muslims that routinely take that AMS-DTW flight -- michigan is known for its large muslim population)

we should face the fact that some disturbed people are too mentally ill to care, we can be the best and greatest nation in the world, and some mentally ill seeker of fame could still try to bomb us

the swab is non invasive, doesn't expose you to harmful ionizing radition, and it's quick, what's to hate????

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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
67. "i'm not aware of the usa bombing or killing anyone in either nigeria or yemen"
A US fighter jet has carried out multiple airstrikes on the home of a senior official in Yemen's northern rugged province of Sa'ada, Houthi fighters say, Press TV reported.

The Yemen-based Houthi fighters say the warplane struck the home owned by the governor of Sa'ada province, Hassan Mohammad Manna in five blitzes. There were no reports on possible casualties in the attacks.
http://en.trend.az/regions/met/arabicr/1608732.html

US fighter jets buzzed across the northern border of Yemen today and pummeled the province of Sa'ada, killing at least 120 people and wounding over 40.

"The US air force perpetrated an appalling massacre against citizens in the north of Yemen as it launched air raids on various populated areas, markets, refugee camps and villages along with Saudi warplanes," the northern Yemen-based Houthi Shia fighters said.
December 16,
http://www.examiner.com/x-8131-Sunset-District-Libertarian-Examiner~y2009m12d16-US-bombs-Yemen-kills-120-just-another-day-in-the-life-of-an-empire
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. ...be sure to swab Granny...and that 4 year old
...this organization is stupid.

Once AGAIN...they will be going after the wrong persons...holding
up grandmas and little children.

And what if they TOUCHED something that a "terrorist" (I'm not seeing
this happening in many cities) had touched?

This is more window dressing to make the TSA/DHS just look good...all the
while there continue to be HUGE holes in the security system.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. But office I just got done loading my own shells before I came to the airport!
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Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Is cargo still loaded without any check?
I've heard that's a bigger security hole than unswabbed hands.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Does the cargo need to feel safe? Don't know, just asking.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
49. Seriously? n/t
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. .
nope
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Another safety solution, not just for excessive baggage.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
73. Baggage handlers definitely randomly check luggage for valuables, especially since
... you can't lock it securely any more. Anything I value gets carried with me, but I have had my clothes tossed about (TSA leaves a note if they did it) and my friend lost a $100 computer cord.

And now they're talking about maybe not letting us carry anything at all aboard.

Hekate

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Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Not baggage, but cargo like freight
that some commercial carriers load onto planes that are also carrying passengers.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. All during the "Lost Decade" that was a huge hole in security, & I have not heard differently yet
So I am left with the sinking feeling that there's still a back door for the bad guys. But I don't know for sure.

Hekate

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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. RamboLiberal
RamboLiberal

I dont know what to say... This is just stupid and counter productive by all means if they really want US to have visitors.. Not to say a airline industry in the US.... If not all the other "rules" are killing your turism, and regular industry over there,this wil be one of the big one. If you need to go true that lot of hassle even to visit your country, then many wil just stay overseas.. Or spend money other plases...

This is far worse than the KGB guards of the 1970s USSR, or the eastern block border patrols in the 1980s who was rather paranoid in letting forreigner in to their country - but then at least we know what to expect, and we also understand that most of them was not democratic country..

US is an democratic country is it?... But at the face of it, it look more and more like the opposite, more or more like dictatorship, and like every other of the type forreign travel by air is restricted, harsly in some places..

This is just stupidity. But as many things that have coming out from US, this is just one more stupid thing to be discovered from your government I guess.. Democratic rule or not, it is the same stupidity all around...

And many or most americans would rather let it pass, becouse "it make your more secure" than to say NO to this. And that is maybe the most stupid of it all

Diclotican
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. If past experience shows us anything I think we best be swabbing ball sacks and feet!
Good grief. The glycerin in hand lotion was cause enough to ground my friend. OMG, they said it was on her keyboard and her shoe laces. They confiscated her phone and computer and would not allow her to call the folks who would be leaving to pick her up at the airport. Go figure.
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
81. Actually, I understand that all body orifices are going to be "gently" "respectfully" swabbed by TSA
I hope she got her stuff back.
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meeshrox Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. What about travelers around holidays with fireworks...
forget flying around July 4th or new years!

Not that this is going to foil any plots, jeez! We have very smart people in the government who are supposed to be thinking about ways to protect us...this does not seem smart or protective. It seems counterproductive to me...
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. if this discourages amateur fucktards from shooting off fireworks i'm all for it
in many areas shooting off fireworks is illegal but not enforced and i for one don't object a bit to anything to puts a stop to this dangerous and noisy practice

yes, i've had a firework deliberately tossed at me, years ago we even had some psycho put some kind of cherry bomb (?) in our pumpkin

i've also been a victim of a drive by shooting where the noise of holiday fireworks was deliberately taken advantage of, to screen the sound of gunshots

frankly if you are not a trained professional and you're handling fireworks anyway, my pity for you is pretty darn small

most people who are staying home shooting off fireworks are NOT at the airport and have no legit reason to be, so i don't grok your argument anyway

carrying on fireworks on an airplane is ILLEGAL, holiday or no holiday, and if you're doing that, it's my wish that you be arrested and escorted off my plane, k thnx
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meeshrox Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I was not referring to carrying fireworks on the plane...
But, yes, I do shoot off fireworks when it's festive for a holiday. Suppose I shoot off fireworks and mistakenly wear the same jeans on a flight the next day, do I deserve to be interrogated? Wait, don't answer...I'm already pretty sure what you'll say.

As to your bitterness over people using fireworks in your neighborhood, cannot help you there...do you shutter your house for Halloween, too?

Fireworks and drive-bys have no correlation! Because two events occurred together has no bearing! I'm sorry you were shot at, but it's no reason to be pissed at everyone for having a festive holiday.

Fireworks are only dangerous if you are an idiot and do not respect them!
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
83. "Fireworks are only dangerous if you are an idiot and do not respect them!" ??
Every year I have to help take care of at least one kid who has been seriously injured by fireworks (I work in a Level-I Trauma Center). I suppose you would just consider them idiots, as opposed to just being young? This past Fourth it was two - one with loss of an eye (and other facial damage); one who blew off most of his dominant hand except for the pinkie.

It would not be so bad if people only shot them off on the days they are legal (New Years, and the Fourth where I live) but generally they start weeks before, and end weeks afterwards making sleep difficult for many. Any individual episode of someone shooting off fireworks is generally brief enough that the police do not even try to respond, but each episode seems to inspire someone else to go light off a few of their own (especially true on Friday, and Saturday nights - wonder why that would be?)

Two summers ago in the weeks before the Fourth there was a whole series of damaging fireworks-caused grass fires which finally led to the county-wide banning of sales and use for that year. There was a lot of protest about this (rational) decision - much of it coming from the underfunded volunteer fire departments - which made a significant amount of money by SELLING the damn things.

Fireworks are fine if you live in the country well away from your neighbors, in the city, and other built-up areas, they are a juvenile expression of selfishness. I leave for work at 0500 - don't really appreciate being awakened by fireworks from the large new housing development behind us every night around midnight for a week or two. I appreciate even less finding burn marks on my roof from rockets.

And, no, we do not shutter our house on Halloween, but we would like to shutter the fireworks stands for good.






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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. "American Gulag, now loading at Gate 15"
Just as we have the government that we deserve, we also have the bizarro U.S. airport, now run by one of the most inept government creations of all-time: the TSA.
I assume, as noted elsehere in these posts, that explosive swabbing will be concentrated on elderly women, children under 5, and mothers carrying infants. That and disgruntled, uncooperative, grouchy individuals like myself.
What would happen if everyone just fought back on this crap? Would they shut down the airports?
Of course that will never happen since the masses in this once-great country of ours have essentially sold out their freedom and sense of independence in exchange for some pipe-dream fantasy of security - brought to us by the scowling, howling, latex-gloved, "security professionals" at TSA. If only they were fellow citizens perhaps they could be more empathetic. But they are not! They are better than you, better than off-duty travelling police officers, better than firefighters, better than Grandma. Do what they say and do it now - and smile while you are doing it.
And what about the threat?
You know, the one where you are 11,000 times more likely to die in an aircraft accident than you are in a aircraft disaster involving terrorism. The one where you are 6 times more likely to die from freakin' hot weather than you are from a terrorist attack (and I live in FL!).
This and many mysteries involving the take-over of our aircraft transportation system by the intrepid, barn door closers of the TSA are a fun-filled read away at the link.

http://eyewashstation.blogspot.com/2007/11/odds-of-dying-in-terrorist-attack.html

Another in a continuing series from the TSA fan club.
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
34. Another reason to take Amtrak
We need to invest our money in improving Amtrak. China is taking our money and investing it in real high speed rail, 215 mph for passenger trains and it has met with great success. Train travel is a very energy efficient form of transportation.
And best of all nobody will know if your socks don't match!

Use your brain,
take the train.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. really? i'm amazed that only you are aware of china's transatlantic train system
seems to me if china had all these marvelous trains going across oceans, then more people would know about it

get real

a train system doesn't replace the air network, because the cost of traveling by train over major bodies of water such as, i dunno, the pacific ocean is a pretty large one, is beyond our finances and our technology

might as well tell us to put on a beanie and travel by flapping our ears

i use my brain to do simple math, which tells me that if i can get there overland, my own car is far cheaper than a train plus rental car at my destination, if i can't get there overland, there is no magical train or rocketship that is going to bypass the airport

people don't fly by choice they fly because it's too far to walk -- that is, there is no practical way to get from say nigeria to amsterdam to detroit (the route of the christmas bomber) that is usefully served by TRAIN, that's just nonsense
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
57. I took Amtrak last month and 'Homeland Security' swept the train on the way out and on the trip back
You betcha! Dogs for bombs, questions about drugs for those with alien sounding names. Don't fool yourself, they tried to search one fellows room twice once in Reno and again in Grand Junction. The porter finally told the guys that they had already searched the same passenger's room once on that trip and it looked like they were profiling him.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
35. Everyone knows those dirty terrorists never wash their hands!
Unclean! Unclean!! :silly:

Really, TSA, could you get any more ridiculous?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. washing your hands makes no difference, so it's you who look ridiculous
i've said it before and i'll say it again, if you don't know what you're talking about, take a deep breath and stop talking

gunshot/explosives residue is not removed by washing one's hands

i've been swabbed, many times, and i just don't see the big deal, it's quick, it's cheap, and it does find the residue and i guess if mr. terrorist thinks that a ritual washing of the hands removes the residue it will work all the better
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. First of all, you've never told me I don't know what I'm talking about before.
So there's one strike against you. Secondly, gunshot/explosive residue is not the only thing one can make explosives from. Talk about not knowing what you're talking about!
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. great decision and way more effective than the stupid-ass body scanners
i'm surprised to see so many people hating on the swabs, they're non-invasive, they're quick, and they're far more likely to catch a terrorist than the scanner

i've been swabbed several times, more frequently in europe, and it is just not that big a deal as some of the posters in this thread pretend it is

you are not highly likely to have been fertilizing the lawn the day before you fly home from europe, but by all means if for some reason you're into fertilizing lawns whilst tramping about europe, arrive at the airport early so if you set off the swab, you can be properly searched

honestly, i think some people will not be happy until there is NO screening at all
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. I agree, it's doable, quick and non-invasive.
If you shook hands or put your hand where a terrorist did, I'd like to know where that was.
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Guilded Lilly Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. This isn't in PLACE of body scanning...
it is in addition to all the other measures already used, correct? Swabbing my hands would be no problem IF IT IS ACTUALLY EFFICIENT. IF it actually doesn't throw up a dozen other false alarms or leave something on the hands of children, etc. etc. etc.

But this is an addition to the other processes, yes? Not a replacement?
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Guilded Lilly Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
47. Terrorists know by now that
the TSA is so wrought with overblown, inefficient, and incredibly off the map methods that are very successfully turning the flying public into ground travellers, that potential terrorists don't HAVE to smuggle anyone onboard with any explosives. They can just let the paranoid, badly run and poorly focused TSA go about targeting/harrassing the wrong people. People will avoid aviation at all costs and hit the industry right where it will do the most damage. Profit Margin.

I don't envy the TSA's position, and would much rather put up with a hand swabbing than some of these other outrageous attempts at security...IF IT WERE ACTUALLY EFFICIENT...but frankly, the total horror stories of invasive and poorly directed measures against airline passengers are probably sending a huge message out there that just implied terrorism will work in bringing the airline industry to its knees.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. There could be a lot of false positives
I think these forensic tests are sometimes triggered by chemicals that people come into contact with on a daily basis.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
69. So?

The point is that a positive triggers closer inspection of carry on and checked bags. It doesn't keep you off of the plane. So if you don't have a bomb, you're good to go.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. False positives
Slow down airport procedures.
Put innocent under serious suspicion.
Maybe land innocent people in jail.
Cost individuals and the wider society time and money.

I think anyone testing positive for explosives is going to get more than a little extra scrutiny. In some cases they might easily languish in jail for days or weeks. Even if a bomb isn't found, it would trigger suspicion that they must have been around a bomb. Proving innocence might be difficult and expensive.

Look at how many innocent people have been swept up by the war on drugs.

It isn't trivial.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. They can be inspected and questioned

But if they do not have explosives, they can't be jailed. Tell me what the charge would be on arraignment?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. People get put in jail on thin suspicions all the time
You can be held for a period based on suspicion. A resourceful prosecutor could come up with any number of charges. The Patriot Act has plenty of scope.

Plus, not everyone at an airport is American, so they wouldn't have any rights at all.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Dude, try not to practice law

Being an American citizen has nothing to do with criminal procedural rights unless they are entering illegally. Someone going through security is not entering illegally.

Second, no, you can't be jailed on "suspicion". You can be arrested on probable cause. Having something that triggered the detector, and a search of your bags coming up with no explosive device, results in there no longer being auspicion that you are carrying an explosive device.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
55. GE's trace detection co will make some big money!
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Jkid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
58. Why can't the US Government just outlaw domestic air traffic and be done with it.
The US have practically treated every airplane passenger as a potential criminal.
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Grand Taurean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
65. The TSA needs to be dis banned, NOW!
Edited on Wed Feb-17-10 09:11 PM by Grand Taurean
This paranoid nonsense is destroying the airline industry.
So how many false positives will there be? In turn this means that many people are going to be hauled off in with public embarrassment for no reason.
:banghead:
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
66. Nitro. I carry it I use it. n/t
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
68. Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won!
Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won! Osama bin Laden won!


Way to go Osama...

Stupid fucking USAmerikans...
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
76. And it won't be just for "explosives".......
be damn sure that they will be testing for the chronic, cocaine or drug of your choice....


Just like they do when they swipe the inside of your laptop back today...

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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. No, No, No: We have been ASSURED that it is only for Explosives.
Sheesh - don't you even believe the Department of Homeland Security?

Though a commonly used sniffer is "...capable of detecting and identifying more than 40 explosive, CW agent and narcotic substances" - you can read about a typical model at http://www.spymall.com/catalog/new6.htm - I am sure that Homeland Security (though "Homeland Security" is such an un-American, Germanic sounding, name) will fully respect our Constitutional right to freedom from unreasonable and illegal fish-net type searches.

That aside, it actually does make sense - I say this even though when they swabbed my carry-on one time they found "explosives" - fortunately on that trip 1) I had no explosives (not actually something that I usually carry), and 2) I had almost nothing in my carry-on (I don't recall why - since it is usually jammed).

The best I could think of was that it was a roller that I was also using for work, and that I had kept a spray bottle of nitroglycerin (for treating angina, not blowing things up) in it.

Even so, an unpleasant experience.

So, bear in mind that any nitrogenous substance - ie medicine with nitroglycerin in it, anything (such as cleaners) with ammonia (NH3), fertilizers, and so on will be picked up as as "explosives" by the swab as, my understanding is, that basically it is looking for nitrogen moieties.

Oh. And forget the coke - which is good neither for you, nor for society (given that it is illegal, and is leading to crime lords having great sway over governments) at large.


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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-18-10 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
79. Based on the last attempt . . .
they need to swab passenger's nut sack. Is that permissible on this website?
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