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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:35 PM
Original message
Judge: Pratt can't move jobs (1,000) out of US
Source: AP

By STEPHEN SINGER

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) - A federal U.S. judge ordered jet engine maker Pratt & Whitney to halt its plans to move 1,000 jobs out of Connecticut and to Japan, Singapore and the state of Georgia.

U.S. District Judge Janet C. Hall in Bridgeport issued a permanent injunction, stopping the company's plans to shift the jobs.

The judge strongly criticized the subsidiary of United Technologies Corp., saying it evaded the spirit of its union contract requiring it to make every effort to keep the jobs in the state.

The union, which represents about 3,700 workers, hailed the decision. In its lawsuit, the union accused Pratt & Whitney of failing to comply with the contract that required it to do everything possible to preserve the jobs.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100206/D9DMIS4O0.html
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Pratt understood its obligations, but decisively attempted to evade them.
I'm afraid Republicans are going to kill the unions... they slow down the process of destroying the middle class.
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. I'm afraid elected Democrats are helping to kill unions
It's devastating what's happened to unions over the last several decades in this country.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. One of my Republican relatives is in a union
and all she does is complain about it. She has a secure job with good pay and benefits at 55. She hasn't been unemployed for 25 years, has summers off. No clue whatsoever what her situation would be like if she were in a non-unionized job. Lots of 50-somethings are in the long term unemployed group and will take a big step down in pay when we go back to work.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. what arrogance she has....
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I have a niece who just retired from the county with a good pension and benefits
negotiated by her union and she has always decried unions. I can't understand this myopic thinking.
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. All they see is the dues
taken out of their paycheck and the anti-union propaganda (often from the company they work for). They don't see the higher salary negotiated by the union. To bad paychecks can't be broken up into 2 addition categories. Instead of the standard "wages" have "wages the company wanted to pay you" and "additional wages negotiated by the union"
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
92. That would shock 'em
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
69. I know Many people like that..
don't like any of them...:wtf:
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abelenkpe2 Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. My father in law is the same
He worked as a machinist in Wisconson. He was afraid of the union bosses. Claims they once murdered someone who didn't tow the line. I don't know if the story is true, but he generally did not like the union because of that incident.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
68. what friggin crap.
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 09:12 PM by dotymed
go bust some where else slick. I was stupid enough to listen to your line for over 20 years. I wish I had joined then. You are ridiculous!:thumbsdown
Unions are the only way to get the Money, Respect and Benefits you are willing to fight for. Maybe we should lay down and take what the people or Corporations getting wealthy from our work, are wanting to pay... thats why they go to third world countries. Either level the playing field or repeal NAFTA, etc.. and increase tariffs on foreign goods. If you are too greedy to protect the economy (and people) of America go away please...wrong board.

"heard"... "once" get a job on FOX tee vee
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #26
107. Well that may be understandable....
I mean if your life is in danger due to corruption, you may get a pass.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
119. Lots of these types here-- they elected Raygun
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Teacher? nt
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
52. Yes.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. Then perhaps she might be interested in knowing
what conditions were like for teachers prior to unionization. My parents were teachers for forty years, started before there were unions. They could tell some real horror stories. And their unions had to fight for every single right and decent condition, and constantly fight to maintain them. Today's teachers often have NO idea of how much they owe unions in having any kind of decent working conditions and benefits. And too many alleged Democrats, even pro-union ones, have fallen prey to the smear propoganda against teacher's unions.

And few things pissed my parents off more than anti-union teachers who didn't want any dues deducted from their paychecks and who didn't want to join the unions, but who still demanded all the rights and benefits and collective bargaining gained for them by the very unions they refused to support. My parents' feeling was, okay, don't join and don't pay the union dues, fine. But then don't turn around and demand the benefits that the union negotiated. It's like people who don't wanna pay any taxes but who demand all the benefits that taxes pay for.
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prezpeng Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. anti- union teachers
Had to be Republicans...selfish and greedy
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
102. Teachers can be a special breed....
Even when treated very well like up in the Northeast, many(not all) constantly wail.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. Exactly how do you know how "well" teachers are treated
in the Northeast? My parents spent forty years as NE teachers, and I guarantee you that they and their colleagues were not only NOT "treated well", but they had to constantly fight to get and maintain every single right, benefit and decent working condition they had. And until YOU'VE spent time as a teacher yourself, you have no business whining about their alleged "wailing", because you have NO idea what they deal with daily and what it's like.

Now, if you wanna whine about administrators and parents-then I'm gonna be more on board with that.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. Uh, my experience is with teachers on LI....
75K to start 8-3:30PM workday and 7 months of work days with only a bachelors degree. My cousin's wife is a teacher and all she does is constantly complain. Oh, and now she's completed her masters and soon her doctorate (in education,) all 100% paid for. It truly is horrible :rofl:.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. I don't know where the hell you're getting that salary
info from, but it's nowhere near what my parents were paid or what people I now know in that field are paid. NOWHERE NEAR. And keep in mind that 75k in NY or NJ or similar states is nothing compared to the cost of living.

And try increasing those workday hours while you're at it. Most of them are there before 8 and after 3:30, especially if they coach or advise activities. My dad directed the plays, so he'd be gone from 7 to 5, come back for dinner, then be gone again until 9 or 10, four nights a week and then into the weekends. And that's the case with most of them. And guess what? You don't automatically have everything all laid out for you ready to teach. There's the matter of daily lesson plans, which takes a couple of hours EVERY single fucking day. Then there's grading and organizing, etc. You didn't think all that shit got done on its own, did you? So, you're talking several more hours a day than just the school hours, and that includes several hours each weekend day. And that's not even getting into having to deal with unreasonable parents every single day and the administrators who kowtow to them and who usually don't know what the fuck they're talking about because they haven't set foot in a classroom for years, if ever. Yet, they're the ones paid the huge bucks for basically doing nothing but coddling parents and prostrating themselves before the school board.

And not all districts pay for further education. My parents sure as shit didn't have that perk. And it's a good thing some of the do, otherwise it'd be very difficult for them to afford.

And maybe your cousin's wife complains because she has to deal with you and people like you who have no clue what the fuck they're talking about and who probably wouldn't last more than a week in their own classroom. And people wonder why I didn't follow in my parents' footsteps.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #108
110. Just because your parents had a tough time does not mean that modern..
teachers are the same. And 75K and single is very livable in NY as long as you're not in the city. Probably can't afford a house(but few can), but still very livable.

Also she'll have full pension after 20.

Compare that job to the majority of people who work 60-80 hours a week without school vacations and summers off. It's so horrible! :rofl:

http://www.longislandschools.com/
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. You think they don't work 60 or more hours a week?
You think actual teaching hours are the only hours they work? Did you not pay attention at all to my post? How do you think daily lesson plans, grading sometimes hundreds of papers daily and weekly, and coaching and advising get done? By osmosis? Not to mention dealing with sometimes hundreds of kids a day? I don't know of any teacher who works less than fifty hours a week, quite often more. It would be like claiming that doctors "only" work seven hours a day because those are their office hours, when a lot more goes into it than that.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. 60-80 hours a week back-breaking labor...
not grading papers or parent-teacher meetings (the horror).

They have to make a daily lesson plans?! My goodness, it's worse than slavery! :rofl:

Not to mention that they're jobs are incredibly stable which is a luxury granted to very few in the workforce.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. Ummm.......just because labor isn't physical doesn't
mean it isn't challenging, taxing or breaking. And many of them are NOT secure. There are plenty of areas where even long-time teachers are being laid off or their positions eliminated, hundreds in some larger districts. And try also being held accountable for factors over which you have no control-such as if the kids come to school adequately fed, or are abused/neglected, or are made to do their homework, etc., and try getting the blame for every fucking little thing even when you had nothing to do with it.

Oh, what's the use? People like you don't listen, don't care and have no fucking clue what you're talking about. People like you should just be forced to go off and teach your own children.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Like I said, they're given extremely good jobs with a B.A.
And I am still always amazed to listen to those who moan how their careers are so horrible or how they need a 3 week holiday. Funny stuff. :)
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. You deal with hundreds of kids a week
for months on end and see if YOU don't need a three-week holiday!
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Yes, that is epitome of work-stress. Haha.
No other job compares! :rofl:
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-09-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. Well, if they're hundreds of kids who are
against you and constantly misbehave and don't do their work and their parents don't make them do their work and are hard to control but blame YOU and the parents don't wanna hear anything bad about darling little Jane or Johnny and the admins kowtow to them, there may be just a wee bit of stress involved. But your empathy and concern for those working hard for the education of children is duly fucking noted.

Oh, but I guess it's just sooooooo much less stressful than pushing papers around a fucking desk all day, or being a corporate bankster thinking up ways to fuck people out of their money all day. You know, the ones you love to bow down to and favor and feel sorry for. Gag.
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
95. Almost no one knows the price paid by union members...
Sadly, unions are mostly given passing mention in American history. Ordinary working people organized and fought and sometimes died for workplace safety, child labor laws, decent pay, the five day eight hour work week, overtime, insurance benifits, and so many other things we all take for granted. People in this country have no idea how much they owe the labor movement regardless of whether they are union members. Does anybody really believe that a non-union job would offer any kind of decent compensation if it were not for the labor movement putting pressure on unionized shops?
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #52
101. Makes sense.....
My cousin married into a family where literally every member is a teacher on LI. Aunts, Uncles, cousins, etc. All they ever do is complain about their 75K a year to start and 7 month working year.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. republicans just don't "get" unions.
I have a friend who hates all unions, though she's never been in one and doesn't know anyone who is. She gets her ideas from conservative media, needless to say. Frustrating!
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. The way I would answer her is
Unions are not perfect, nothing is, but they are democratic institutions that serve the members. So if her union is so bad, the question becomes what has she done to improve it? The Union is not the officers and elected leadership, it is the members.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
76. .
:thumbsup:
When we were on strike (california grocery strike UFCW) about four years ago. The ones that crossed the line and went back to work were the first ones to complain about the contract.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #76
83. We here in St. Louis Grocery went out I think a bit before you
but ours ended much quicker as I recall (we were out 25 days during the October Revolution) The ones that crossed or just didn't show up to walk at all (we were technically locked out at my chain although getting management to admit to that is impossible) do complain pretty generally about the union and the contract, but seems they are the first to need to check the contract book when things might not be going their way.


:hi: To a fellow grocery type!
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #83
93. I quit working for safeway in protest of that contract .
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 04:49 PM by unapatriciated
they have since gotten back some of what they lost.
I took a withdrawal card and still support UFCW, still have my UFCW credit card. The only one I carry.

four months on a picket line in the snow (Mammoth Lakes, Ca):hi:
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Hope you landed in a job you like
I've been in the grocery biz since 1973 (produce for the first 20, then grocery and then receiver) so a bit old to jump to something new and after some rough spots coming back (hurt feelings, ruffled feathers) things are not so bad. Got a pretty good store with good bosses (not to sure about the Ivory Tower types :banghead: ) but it's pretty much okay overall.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. I work for TJ's now, took a pay cut at first but am now earning the same as before.
My husband had 20 years with safeway and also quit. He was hired by TJ's first. He now earns more after five years than he did at Safeway in 20 years.
After the strike they eliminated his position as department head and he lost his bonuses.
They are not union but we are smart enough to realize that the pay is great because of the union.
TJ's is a private family owned company so it makes a difference in how they treat the employees.
Our kids were grown so we could afford the paycut at the time.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. Like most Republicans, she
is out of touch with reality.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. How are the Democrats doing so? nt
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. by not making it a top priority to help unions organize when they have
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 04:32 PM by demosincebirth
the power in congress. Pass legislation and let the re pukes filibuster it until hell freezes over. At least they know they done all they can, and who knows, we might just pick off one or two republicans to pass a bill, but they have to try, first.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. Compared to Republicans?
Globalization and the free trade agreements have hurt unions. But the GOP would flat out make organized labor illegal given their own way. The GOP is anti-labor, the Democratic Party is traditionally pro-labor.

Don't you know this?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Of course
That's why the Democratic Senate and the Democratic President wanted to tax their benefits and pitted non-union workers against union workers in the controversy. Good thing they're pro-union.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. I wouldn't characterize
taxing the health care benefits as anti-labor. It was a desperate attempt to find funding for the health care reform bill, one that I don't agree with. There are much better ways to fund health care reform but the Administration apparently doesn't want to hear additional criticism heaped on by the GOP M$M.

But, I stand by what I said. If it was up to the GOP there would be NO unions, none. The stated aim of the Republican Party is to dismantle the U.S. Postal Service. And they have said over and over they want to dismantle the teacher's union.

There is more than a dime's difference, in this instance. I can't imagine a single postal worker or teacher voting Republican but I know they vote against their own best interests all the time.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. The House has perfectly good sources of funding in their bill that does not pit workers against each
other.

If it were up to the GOP there would be no unions.

Democrats seem to be on the track to just keep letting them slip slowly into obscurity.

As for the teacher's unions, have you been keeping up with President Obama's Education Secretary's activities? The Democrats are doing a fine job of ridding the country of unions right now. There may be more than a dime's worth of difference but not a whole lot more right now.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #53
82. I am very discouraged.
Like so many of us I am deeply disappointed in the direction of my party and the country. I know what Democrats are SUPPOSED to be.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. Democrats have mostly been as complicit as Rs in promoting "Free" trade
witness NAFTA. The Ds live up to their scraps and bones function when it comes to organized labor. They mostly do a little better than Rs, but nothing that will really interrupt the downward slide of organized labor, since their Corporate Masters prefer wage-slavery.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
63. While I agree with you in theory, and that's the way it's usually been,
the modern Democrats are nowhere near as pro-labor, especially the Blue Dogs and moderate Dems. In fact, many influential Dems actually support outsourcing and H1B Visa increases, among many other anti-worker policies. The old Democrats would have raised holy hell, as well as recognized that a firm plank of their base was unions. The newer Democrats not only do not recognize any such thing, they often don't even give a damn and bend over backwards for businesses and against workers.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
50. That's because a lot ..
of so called Dems aren't,they are really republicONS in our party their to obstruct. Listen to Evan Bayh. He uses all of the republiCON talking points..
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #50
80. Right. Evan Bayh might as
well change parties so we can better recognize the enemy.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bravo Judge Hall!
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. They'll probably declare bankruptcy to evade this order...
Never underestimate the venality of the profit motive combined with a tablespoon of spite.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
55. The article says the contract expires in December
They can just wait it out
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. Strngly recommend
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R for the Judge.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R for the Judge.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. With someone U trust, U don't need a contract & with those U can't, no contract will ever protect U

this shows they cannot be trusted - at least the judge saw fit to enforce the contract - and now the games begin
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R n/t
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RubyDuby in GA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. I can already hear the assholes here in Georgia bitching about the evil gubment taking away jobs
I really am beginning to despise this state and its right to work idiots and just about everything else around here. They gripe and moan that there are no jobs or no decent paying jobs and yet when people want to get together to make sure they aren't being screwed, they complain that everything in the world that is wrong is the fault of unions. Morans. :rant:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
75. makes you wonder just what Sonny offered to the company to get the jobs to move down here
The levels of ignorance about good paying jobs in Georgia is astounding.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. great. nt
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Let us take the stand that money doesn't matter and start a trade business.
Somebody needs to build the grid, maybe Google?

We need a jobs bank where you put in your labor at costs
and people who need you will trade their hours for your
services.
So an attorney might need a babysitter, a plumber needs
accounting services,
a babysitter needs some clothes, a clothier needs some medical
advice, a doctor
needs a therapist for his kids, etc.  we all trade our hours
to get our needs met.

there are models.  in Basque they now collectively own several
hospitals, factories,
food coops, etc.   we can do it.

lets dump this current economy and move things a different way
fast and show just how
smart and democratic the american people really are.

I'll help!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. This has been done in various places in the US. It works.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. can you tell where?
I have a student looking for a research paper topic; maybe this would be it. Needs a starting point, though.


Cher
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Madison, WI has Madison Hours; check out Wikipedia for a start:
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
70. Wow! Wisconsin is ahead of California on this? WoW!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #70
85. A fluke, I assure you. Wisconsin never leads on anything.
1910-Emil Seidel was elected mayor of Milwaukee, becoming the first Socialist mayor of a major US city, and Victor Berger (also of Milwaukee) became the first Socialist ever elected to Congress.

1932-Wisconsin enacts first unemployment-compensation law in the nation

The conceptual underpinnings of Social Security came directly from the "Wisconsin Idea," the concept that government and academic experts should help solve social and economic problems, that dated from Wisconsin's Progressive-Era administrations. The designers of the Wisconsin Idea and the programs that expressed it, including economists John R. Commons and Richard T. Ely and Legislative Reference Bureau chief Charles McCarthy, were the mentors of Witte and the other principal authors of the Social Security Act.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. Thanks for the information. My mother in law is from Wisconsin.
I should give her a call. 
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #49
86. wow, this is big
Thank you so much.


Cher
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. Actually this is a valuable
concept.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. We can call it a guild and instead of signs we'll use symbols above our shops. nt
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
57. So does an hour for an electrical engineer
Edited on Sat Feb-06-10 07:27 PM by Confusious
Go for the same a babysitter?

Or does the mechanic who has 10 years of experience go for the same as the mechanic with one?

and how are you going to calculate for science, like physicists, whose work doesn't pay of now, but later?

The math and theory for the physics behind the flash drive was worked out 70 years ago, as an example.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
71. You put in your rates and everytime your goods and services are used you get credit to buy someone
elses goods and services.  My guess, but maybe it can be more
equitable because
babysitters can't work 24 hours a day to get their needs met. 
Need to do some research.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. That didn't answer my question............

I understand the concept, I would just like some clarification on what you think is "equitable"

Would be more equitable for the babysitter or the engineer?
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
90. I would imagine they would have the same needs and fees as in our system, but maybe crucial services
for all like housing, food and healthcare could be paid for by
a tax paid by all?  
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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's not Pratt, it's Pratt & Whitney
Just like it's not the Democrat Party, but the Democratic Party

But they're still greedy corporate scum (pardon the redundancy) by any name, and I'm glad to see one judge not wholly-owned by Corporate America
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HBravo Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. This only a temporary win (unfortunately for the workers)
Pratt will move out when the contract with the union expires in Dec. Big Corp. wins again.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. A MADE IN USA Movement is badly needed
Of course, it won't help when a company wants to relocate from a developed state to a Third World state within U.S. borders, but it would help.

Ed Schultz promotes this website on his radio show. I'm sending it to everybody.

http://www.madeinusaforever.com/

Because of geopolitics, free trade treaties, and good ol' fashion quid pro quo, our government can't formalize policies with buy and hire American provisions, but the American people can.

Regardless of GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA or any other free trade treaties, Americans can still pick an item up in a store and put it back down if it doesn't say "Made in the USA." In some cases it's next to impossible to get made in the USA (I doubt many people reading this are seeing it on a computer made in the USA), but it can be done. We do it all the time.

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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. BUY AMERICAN
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prezpeng Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
67. I totally agree
It is needed and I think many....enough will support it
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
81. American labor needs a level playing field!!!!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. fantastic news! they should, and I'm sure many, thanked their union and the judge.
Repubs want the death of unions...
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R!
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. But how else is the CEO and board members going to make millions?
This is so anti-capitalist. They have every right to send thousands into unemployment for their personal gain. That's capitalism in America, isn't it? Gees, those poor board members. Now they'll have to live off the hundreds of thousands of dollars they make today instead of the promise of millions. How will they survive? Tragic.

I mean, it's downright socialist to think that jobs exist for people and not the other way around.


( :sarcasm: - in case you need it )
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
78. How can you be so heartless...
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 06:55 AM by damyank913
Don't you realize this will hold their bonus' to 6 digits. Think of all the yachts that won't get bought. It's a good thing that our corporate welfare system is solvent and active.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. Truthfully, no individual with liquid assets above 250K should be able to leave the US...
And if they do those assets should be taxed at 90%. We must stop the wealth from leaving this country.

Conversely, foreign companies who try to setup shop within the US should have all their profits taxed at 90%.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. That's absurd. So if someone who's retiring sells their house for
300 grand and wants to move out of the country, they should be taxed at 90%? bah.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. Exactly. They've benefitted greatly from living in this country.
And they should be required to spend their wealth in THIS country and not flee elsewhere to lower taxes or whatever.
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ArcticFox Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
60. that's ridiculous
I for one am just waiting until I have enough money saved to leave this shithole. Of course, I hope things change around here for the better before then so that I won't have to leave, but if we keep heading in the direction we've been in for the past 30 years, I'm outta here.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #60
97. And you should be taxed...
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. You DO realize that people in this country have
freedom of movement and should be permitted to have freedom of movement? What right do you have to tell people where they can and cannot go and where they can and cannot live?
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #64
77. they can leave if they want. Just pay the damn exit fee and quit complaining.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #64
98. Yeah, like these people
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. We need a Congress for that and the fascists own the Congress. nt
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
61. WHA??????? nt
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
66. Yeah. 'Cause that'll REALLY bring foreign companies
here and bring their needed jobs, taking away most of their profits. That's the ticket to economic growth!



:sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #66
99. We can be like Venezuela and they're doing well as many attest to here. nt
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #99
104. And Venezuela is a communist
dictatorship, whether the misguided Chavez worshippers here want to admit it or not. No fucking thank you.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. You just haven't seen it up close.
It's paradise and will soon surpass the US in every manner.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. LOL! Damn, you're funny sometimes!
A "paradise" where most of the people remain as poor as dirt? Where Chavez is taking steps to ensure that he's the "permanent" leader and people can't even vote on their own representation any more? LOL.

Then again, if they put teachers under house arrest, give banks free rein to do whatever they want to people regardless of how egregious their actions were, and outlaw medical malpractice, you probably WOULD consider it a paradise. Hell, they'd probably put the doctor who killed my best friend last year and put her through months of suffering before she finally died on a pedestal if you were in charge.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. You've been listening to too much AP and Reuters propaganda...
Venezuelans are living better than ever and poverty is on its way to being wiped out completely.
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damyank913 Donating Member (595 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
79. I can take the socialist rhetoric-but that's communism.
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WriteDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #79
100. No, its for the people...
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. Another activist judge who hates America.
:sarcasm:
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
34. this is the same Pratt & Whitney that
sells parts and airplane supplies to the U.S. military?

WTF is wrong with these folks? Oh, I forgot, Greed rules.
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PacerLJ35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. P&W is also one of the largest producers of civilian aircraft engines
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. Now this is the kind of
judicial activism I can embrace.
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
38. I dug up a few previous stories on this

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-prattsuit0116.artjan16,0,4891235.story

By ERIC GERSHON The Hartford Courant

The near-term employment of about 1,000 Connecticut Pratt & Whitney workers now depends on U.S. District Judge Janet C. Hall.

Lawyers for Pratt and its main labor union delivered final written arguments Friday afternoon to Hall, who oversaw a five-day trial in a union lawsuit attempting to block plant closures that would result in the layoffs.

There were no closing oral arguments at the trial, which ended Wednesday in Bridgeport.

Hall is expected to issue a ruling by month's end. The Machinists union asked for an injunction barring the company from closing, or mostly closing, its Cheshire jet engine overhaul factory and an East Hartford unit before Dec. 5, when the labor contract ends.

A ruling for the union would delay the company's plans, but not forbid them after Dec. 5. In the meantime, the company and the Machinists would undertake new contract negotiations that could end in a strike.

Before the trial's December start, Pratt had said the shutdown could begin as early as Jan. 21 and that both operations would be dark by early 2011. On Friday, a company spokesman said Pratt would wait for Hall's decision "before determining our next steps."

FULL story at link.


Obama Urged to Protect U.S. Jobs at Pratt

http://ow.ly/HDhx

The IAM is calling on President Obama to dissuade Pratt & Whitney from moving more than 1,000 aerospace jobs from Connecticut to low-cost locations in Japan, Indonesia and Georgia.

“We are in the midst of a national jobs crisis and there is no excuse for a company that has thrived for years at taxpayer expense to abandon a state on the brink of economic oblivion,” said IAM International President Tom Buffenbarger in a letter delivered today to President Obama. “We urge you to use the power of your office to persuade Pratt & Whitney to act in the national interest, rather than solely their own.”

On September 21, 2009, Pratt & Whitney announced it would close the Cheshire Engine Center and Connecticut Airfoil Repair Operations (CARO), despite more than $180 million in incentives and savings proposed by the state of Connecticut and negotiators for IAM District 26.

“ Connecticut is just the latest state to be spurned by a major corporation using the recession as an excuse to consolidate operations in low-cost locations,” said Buffenbarger. “Unchecked, this trend will continue to strip industrial states of the high-skill, high-paying jobs that are essential to any economic recovery.”

The letter to the president arrived on the eve of a White House Jobs Summit, a forum for government, business, academia and labor to discuss ways to save and create jobs.

“ Connecticut can’t wait for a summit to turn ideas into action,” said Buffenbarger. “It would take years to create the infrastructure and develop the skilled workforce that exists today at Pratt & Whitney in Connecticut. By all means, we should develop opportunities where none exist, but we must also protect our existing economic heritage when it comes under attack.”


Union Vows Lawsuit To Keep Cheshire, East Hartford Airfoil Units Open

http://articles.courant.com/2009-09-22/news/pratt-plant-close.art_1_pratt-officials-pratt-s-final-decision-union

1,000 Face Job Loss
Union Vows Lawsuit To Keep Cheshire, East Hartford Airfoil Units Open

Pratt's Final Decision
September 22, 2009|By ERIC GERSHON and JOSH KOVNER, egershon@courant.com

The Machinists' union plans to take Pratt & Whitney to court to try to prevent the company from closing its Cheshire jet engine repair plant and laying off more than 1,000 workers there and in East Hartford, union officials said Monday.

Two months after saying it was "evaluating" a shutdown of those operations, Pratt announced earlier Monday that talks with union and state officials had failed to produce "a reasonable alternative," and that the work would be transferred out of state and overseas.

The Cheshire plant, which employs about 800, will close by early 2011, preceded by a 200-employee airfoil repair unit in East Hartford, which will close by the middle of next year.

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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
56. is that the U.S. of A Georgia?
they are talking about moving to in addition to Asia? I can almost picture those folks wanting to work for 8 dollars a day and shunning unions.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
40. Did Hell just freeze over??
Good on the judge!
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
44. Some history
The original Pratt and Whitney Machine Tool Company was started in 1860. Francis Pratt and Amos Whitney started in a basement while working at Colt Firearms.

Pratt and Whitney AIRCRAFT was started in 1929 by Fred Rentshler, who had invented a new radial air cooled engine. The Pratt and Whitney Company leased Fred some space and machinery on Capitol Avenue In Hartford (now an Aetna bldg, there is a pictorial history display of both Pratt and Whitney's in the lobby)

"The Aircraft" bought the rights to use the name, but there was almost no relationship between the two companies since the 1929 start up.

I worked at "The Machine Tool" in west Hartford from August 1979 to December 1983. IT carried on and got bought in the late 80's and the new owners started to turn it around, and then just decided to walk away.

The Aircraft became a much much larger company than the machine tool ever was. The entire machine tool builder business is fairly small and always has been.

What remains of the original Pratt and Whitney is the current incarnation of the Measurement Systems Division. http://www.prattandwhitney.com/index.htm

-90% Jimmy
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. for crying out loud
Now we can't even make our own war machine. Taxpayers now will have to pay for sweatshop labor to kill our fellow inhabitants here on Planet Earth.

Somethin' wrong with that, if you ask me.


Cher
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. At least I know my mother in law still has a job there.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
73. EXCELLENT!!! It's a shame many today fail to see what the unions brought this
country even if not in a union. Many today meekly get screwed while proclaiming their virtues of not being in a union. Unions are the last vestige for hope in USA, Inc. How do workers today think they are going to fight the takeover of government by corporate America?
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
74. Good
Like to see more decisions like this.
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penndragon69 Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
84. You gotta love it !
Contracts for corporate execs are written in stone by the hand of god, so that no matter how badly they screw up, the execs
will still get their millions in untaxed benefits.

But a Union contract......is written on toilet paper that can be used and flushed away at the whim
of these greedy Anti-American elitist TRAITORS.

We are quickly sliding back to being a country of share croppers working for the master.
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
87. Good thing corporations don't have personhood
Otherwise this would be an infringement on freedom of association and travel, or imprisonment.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
88. GOOD deal! Too bad we don't have politicians doing this too. n/t
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
89. I think Unions are a necessary "evil"
Edited on Sun Feb-07-10 02:14 PM by twitomy
Evil meaning it by nature is a adversarial relationship within the company, which is no good as you would want everyone to be pulling in the same direction. But unfortunately they are needed in some cases as management can treat its people like shit. I say if a company is unionzed, it deserved it. I have been on both sides of the equation. My wife as part of a union of RN's that was formed and it really was needed, and my brother the administrator at the another place that has told me of all the union nonsense that drives him crazy. I would hope if I was an employer that I would treat my employees in such a manner that a union would never be wanted.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-08-10 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
118. my, my, maybe the days of sweetheart deals in CT are over
Corps in CT are used to getting tax breaks, land to build on, exemptions from zoning rules, etc. in return for creating or keeping jobs in the state. And usually the corporations ignore their end of the bargain. Maybe times are changing in CT.
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