(U.S.) Army General Makes Pregnancy Punishable Offense in Iraq

[RamboLiberal]

Source: ABC News

A high-ranking Army official's new policy making pregnancy among troops in Iraq an offense punishable by court-martial is raising eyebrows, even though experts say he is well within his rights to do so.

According to the Nov. 4 general order of Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo III, a commander in northern Iraq, the punishment would apply not only to the female soldiers who become pregnant, but also to the male soldiers who impregnate them, even if the couple is married.

Cucolo told ABC News that the policy, believed to be the first of its kind, was necessary to avoid losing valuable troops in his 22,000-member command.

"I need every soldier I've got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces during our mission. Anyone who leaves this fight earlier than the expected 12-month deployment creates a burden on their teammates," he said in a statement.

"Anyone who leaves this fight early because they made a personal choice that changed their medical status -- or contributes to doing that to another -- is not in keeping with a key element of our ethos, 'I will always place the mission first,' or three of our seven core values: loyalty, duty and selfless service," he continued. "And I believe there should be negative consequences for making that personal choice. "


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/army-maj-general-makes-pregnancy-punishable-offense-iraq/story?id=9391242

---

This jerk also wants to apply this policy to civilians under his command. I hope the hell his commissary has tons of birth control from the pill to condoms in stock. Personally I think this is a numbskull policy. Nature happens General!

[FreakinDJ]

1. So is a Sun Burn / GI stands for Government Issue

and that is what you are once you take that oath

[atreides1]

4. And they didn't issue a family either

But I don't recall any commanding general saying that he would court martial a soldier for getting married.

I was in for 13 years and was stationed in Arizona, Hawaii, and two tours in the Sinai peninsula. Never saw anyone get court martialed for getting a sunburn.

Besides, the standard is that it has to prevent you from doing your assigned duties.

[Captain Hilts]

25. Yes, I've actually heard of folks being punished for sunburns. nt

[dflprincess]

2. I wonder why the "prolifers"

haven't started screaming about this?

[TwilightGardener]

3. Meh. It's unfair for a woman to become pregnant and go home early

if someone else (maybe even someone else who's got kids or a pregnant wife) has to go in her place. And even if it's purely an accident, that's just a dumb time and place to get pregnant.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. In that case it's also unfair for a man to screw a woman in Iraq too,

unless he's had a vasectomy.

Why limit the policy to those cases where a pregnancy results? Any sex by soldiers in a war area should subject them to immediate court martial, and I mean ANY sex including masturbation.

We'd be out of the country in no time.
:evilgrin:

[TwilightGardener]

23. Hey, the dad-to-be gets punished too--at least it's somewhat equal,

though a bit harsh. Really, ladies and gents, either control yourselves over there or use super-duper protection with back-up protection.

[Gormy Cuss]

26. It MAY be somewhat equal but I'd bet that the women get drummed out and the men get a lesser penalty

because after all, they can still perform their duties all the way to the delivery date.

[brofdog]

83. Actually no, no and no

Seven Soldiers have been punished under the policy. 4 women and 3 men. All 4 women got letters of reprimand. If there is follow on pattern of misconduct these are meaningless.

2 of the 3 men got letters of reprimand. Again, meaningless if you keep your nose clean. The third guy was a senior messing around with a junior soldier and he was married. He got slammed.

Women who become pregnant cannot perform their duties because regulations require they are removed from a combat zone within 14 days of their condition becoming known. Can you imagine the outcry if the Army "forced" pregnant Soldiers to stay in a hazardous combat zone?

[Marthian]

35. Troops in an illegal war

being told by an authoritarian that they better not get pregnant because the corporations need every soldier the Army can enslave. Is it fascism yet? And do you even care?

[PavePusher]

72. Stop playing the fool.

Oh wait... you aren't playing.

[Socal31]

75. Wow...

The holidays bring out the strange ones.

[musicblind]

33. They are applying it to the men who have sex with the women as well according to CNN

If the woman is court-martialed and the man who got her pregnant is a solider then he will be as well.

That being sad, I think this is a horrible horrible horrible violation of human rights. This General comes off as a monster.

[Gormy Cuss]

66. Think about it. If the goal is to retain troops, why would they drum out the men?

The general may have said that it will apply to both but I doubt it would apply equally. The women can't stay in a combat zone when pregnant but the men can.

[musicblind]

74. No I think it would be applied equally as a deterent. They're interest would be to keep soilders

not oppress women. If they let the men go free then other men would think it is okay to just sleep around with women because only the women will bear the consequence. Then we'd have more women getting pregnant. They'd send the men away to set the example that would save more troops in the long run. They may be idiots because this policy violates rights all the way around. But you are putting your pre-existing beliefs that women will be discriminated against ahead of the current evidence in this case. So far the only person to receive harsh discipline from this new rule has been a male. Regardless the decision to deny people the right to get have children when they want just because they are in the military is wrong imho

[BrklynLiberal]

5. This has to be among the most insane things I have ever heard of.

It seems to me to be an excellent argument to allow the govt to pay for abortions.

[WriteDown]

9. Are those abortions going to be mandatory?

Pregnancy of female soldiers is a problem. Either don't allow female soldiers or make some sort of disincentive to become pregnant.

[BrklynLiberal]

15. How about giving all the male soldiers something to make them temporarily impotent?

That would certainly solve the problem....

[WriteDown]

17. Sterile would be more humane....

but the technology doesn't exist. Would you want something that "temporarily" did something of that nature. Seems like it could all too easily become "permanently." The other problem is that female soldiers will get pregnant by husbands, boyfriends, etc. during visits.

[BrklynLiberal]

18. You may be correct. Sterile is more humane.

[Marthian]

36. Vasectomies

are now being performed so that they can be reversed. The general is an ass.

[WriteDown]

41. Uh,,,,

You can try to have vasectomies reversed but there is no guarantee. Like I said, something "temporary" could become something "permanent."

[elehhhhna]

38. LOL, army insurance won't pay for one.

[24601]

6. Until they make infallible birth control, this is unenforceable and

will not be upheld.

[Crzyrussell]

20. Yes it can

Sex is prohibited in the area of combat operations.

People have been getting pregnant so they can go home and it needs to be stopped.

There is nothing illegal about it the prohibition.

[Warpy]

60. Do you know the rape rate there? It's appalling

Upper command doesn't want to hear about it, either. Try proving rape when your superior officers want to make it all go away.

Pregnancy is not always a choice, buster.

[24601]

68. It's allowed for married couples - and the MG has already backed-

down from the threat. Seems that four Senators were willing to make his life miserable for violating the unwritten UCMJ Article prohibiting "Stupid in Public"

From the Article, "Even before the senators took aim at Cucolo's policy, the general had backed away from his threat today to court martial women under his command who got pregnant."

The Source is ABC News, http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-backs-off-threat-court-martial-pregnant-soldiers/story?id=9399604


Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

[Demeter]

7. Fine. Bring Everybody Home

I am in favor of communism on the most basic level--sharing what little I own--to keep even one more soul being sold into slavery to fight corporate wars for acquisition.

This is one beast that needs to be starved until it's small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Since when is the mission to supply Exxon with oil fields?

[WriteDown]

11. In basic communism, abortions would be mandatory...

See Red China for illustration.

[BrklynLiberal]

16. Why is it the woman who always has to bear the burden?

Why don't they sterilize any man who has fathered two children?

Let them temporarily make the US soldiers in Iraq impotent...there..problem solved.
Along with all the other shots they have to take...they could get this little shot that prevents
them from ever even wanting to have sex..at least while in Iraq.

[WriteDown]

19. You tell me?

That would be true communism. So if you have twins and they're killed in a horrible car wreck, then you've had your chance? Once again, please list this drug that makes men temporarily impotent and can be taken regularly with no horrible side effects?. The pill is pretty effective. Most men wish there was a male equivalent. I know I would take quadruple the recommended dose. :)

[Demeter]

39. Your Ignorance of What Communism Is Appalls

and Red China is many things, but they only call themselves communist.

Furthermore, the one child policy was to keep the Chinese from killing off their entire nation by overpopulation, and it was an economic necessity which they are now easing.

Fascism is not communism--small c. It's always and everywhere fascism--just like this policy, the policy of Empire. Not of democracy, small d, either.

[WriteDown]

40. Oh really?

"Furthermore, the one child policy was to keep the Chinese from killing off their entire nation by overpopulation, and it was an economic necessity which they are now easing."

I guess this would be a military necessity then so it would be okay.

[Cal Carpenter]

42. Do you just hope that people reading your posts

are ignorant enough to believe you, or do you actually believe it yourself?

[WriteDown]

43. I simply hope people look it up....

Are you denying there are mandatory abortions in Red China?

[Cal Carpenter]

44. No

I am denying that it has anything to do with "basic communism"

[WriteDown]

45. Fairly basic...

China recognized that people would communally benefit from less population so measures were put in to help the people benefit communally. Very basic.

[Cal Carpenter]

46. Okay, let's play that game. Basic capitalism it is.

The USA recognized that we could kill all the brown people and control their resources for profit! To benefit the owners of capital!

Pretty fucking basic :eyes:

Thing is, US is pretty much capitalist, whereas few people but the Chinese Communists and the western propagandists (eg WriteDown)imply that China's system is anything resembling communism.

[WriteDown]

47. I'm not disagreeing, but you forgot the red people...

That is basic, unregulated capitalism.

China used basic, unregulated communism.

[Cal Carpenter]

48. No, they didn't

LOL, who is supposed to 'regulate' a nation's 'communism' - the rest of the world's capitalists? LOL.

The red scare was a long time ago fella. Move on.

[WriteDown]

50. No they didn't what?

Not sure what you are arguing. Forced abortion was for the communities benefit. Are you disagreeing with this?

[Cal Carpenter]

52. You said:

"China used basic, unregulated communism. "

I said "No they didn't"

:shrug:

[WriteDown]

54. And yet you haven't made ANY argument as to why it wasn't....

I pointed out how it was for for the communal benefit.

[Cal Carpenter]

55. I am appalled that I have to use the important milestone of my 300th post

to simply roll my eyes at you

:eyes:

[WriteDown]

57. Still no argument..

Nice try though.

[Tempest]

64. Put him on Ignore like I did

You'll find the intelligence of the threads increases by 50 points without his comments to slag through.

[Cal Carpenter]

65. Well, if it weren't for my occasional exchanges with

folks like Mr. RedDawn...I mean, WriteDown, I would never have hit the 300 mark :)

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Where does this guy thing future soldiers come from - a stork?

[WriteDown]

10. Probably not actually born on the battlefield. nt

[Skip Intro]

12. It's not a beach party, it's a war. How effective can you be at your job if you can't control your

own sexual urges?

I'm just saying.

[Mithreal]

13. War is about subtracting lives

[noamnety]

14. Surely the commander in chief will overrule that.

(The buck stops where?)

[MichiganVote]

21. Hmmm....Immaculate Erections are Exempt?

[Captain Hilts]

24. I hope paternity is also punished in these cases. nt

[musicblind]

34. They are

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/12/21/iraq.us.soldiers.pregnancy/index.html


But it still doesn't make this okay.

[DebbieCDC]

27. Oh the fundies are gonna love this guy

Interfering with Gawd's business of reproduction.

[Poll_Blind]

28. I think this is bullshit but, really, when you join the military the government OWNS you.

Nolonger subject to the Constitution but to the UCMJ.

PB

[junior college]

29. I agree with the General on this one

Just kidding! I'm not a conservative Republican.

[Rozlee]

30. For those big wigs, it's always do as I say, not as I do

You see, there was once a certain General that was credited with winning a certain war some
years ago. Many people wondered why he never ran for president. I really don't know this guy
personally and you didn't hear this from me, because I never gossip. But, they say a he got a 22 yr
old in trouble. But, y'know, we were just a bunch of gossipy soldiers who believed everything other
gossipy soldiers told us. So, who knows. The one thing that I do know for sure, is that these guys
definitely won't be living the lives of monks.

[Psephos]

53. Just like Congress, who won't force themselves to use the same health plan they're pushing on us

Or like the Carbonocracy who live in giant houses and take limos to give their speeches and fly on private jets to Copenhagen.

I hear you, Rozlee.

[Fearless]

31. How about rape???

[mndnpao]

32. The Task Force Marne Pregnancy Policy

I appreciate the discussion about one aspect of a general
order I have applied here in the combat zone of Iraq. The true
intent of my directive cannot be easily understood from one or
two brief articles, so I would like to clarify my rationale
for the directive.
	In this 22,000 Soldier Task Force, I need every Soldier I've
got, especially since we are facing a drawdown of forces
during our mission. Anyone who leaves this fight earlier than
the expected 12-month deployment creates a burden on their
teammates. Anyone who leaves this fight early because they
made a personal choice that changed their medical status -- or
contributes to doing that to another -- is not in keeping with
a key element of our ethos, "I will always place the
mission first," or three of our seven core values:
loyalty, duty and selfless service. And I believe there should
be professional consequences for making that personal choice. 

 	My female Soldiers are absolutely invaluable, many of them
holding high-impact jobs that are often few in numbers, and we
need them all for the duration of this deployment. With their
male counterparts, they fly helicopters, run my satellite
communications, repair just about everything, re-fuel and
re-arm aircraft in remote locations, are brilliant and
creative intelligence analysts, critical members of medical
teams, in all areas of logistics and personnel support across
this Georgia-sized piece of Iraq north of Baghdad, and much
more. Since I am responsible and accountable for the fighting
ability of this outfit, I am going to do everything I can to
keep my combat power -- and in the Army, combat power is the
individual Soldier. 
	To this end, I made an existing policy stricter. I wanted to
encourage my Soldiers to think before they acted, and
understand their behavior and actions have consequences -- all
of their behavior. I consider the male Soldier as responsible
for taking a Soldier out of the fight just as responsible as
the female Soldier who must redeploy.
	To ensure a consistent and measured approach in applying this
policy, I am the only individual who passes judgment on these
cases. I decide every case based on the unique facts of each
Soldier's situation. Of the very few cases handled thus far,
it has been a male Soldier who received the most severe
punishment; he committed adultery as well. Though there have
not been any cases of sexual assault, any pregnancy that is
the product of a sexual assault would most certainly not be
considered here; our total focus would be on the health and
well-being of the victim and justice for the perpetrator.
	I do not expect those who have never served in the military
to completely understand what I have tried to explain above.
Recently I was asked, "Don’t you think you are treading
on an intensely personal topic?" As intensely personal as
this topic might be, leaving those who depend on you
shorthanded in a combat zone gets to be personal for those
left, too. This addition to a standing general order is just a
small part of our overall effort to foster  thoughtful and
responsible behavior among our Soldiers.  

Proudly serving you,
Tony Cucolo
Major General, US Army 
Commander, Task Force Marne
Tikrit, Iraq

[pipoman]

56. It takes a lot of grit to

come to this venue and so clearly state your position. Whether posters here agree or disagree with your position, they have to respect you for caring enough to respond to this post. Not every Democrat here on DU is without a basic understanding of the importance of your mission.

Thank you General for taking the time to come here. Stick around DU, I believe you could certainly add something to our discussions here.

Stay safe and thank you for your service.

[TwilightGardener]

61. Thank you, sir, for the response, and your service.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

62. Roger that, sir.

I was under the impression that women in the service, when entering a combat theater deployment, were strongly advised to get Norplant put in before they jumped off. At least that is what I understand from my SO, a retired Army mustang.

I can understand the rationale. I can also understand that young, randy people, spitting fire and pissing gasoline in a war environment, are gonna do the nasty, especially when facing death on a regular basis. Something about biological imperatives.

You might re-read the story regarding King Knute for some perspective on that.

Thank you for your service, sir.

[me b zola]

63. Then you must provide females the choice of an abortion

I would like to begin by informing you that this website has a large community of veterans and others who have served in the military reserves. Many others of us have family members who are currently serving in active duty. Most of us do understand how serious pregnancies are during deployment, but we also understand other truths about military culture. My experience is that many military females will never file a complaint when sexually harassed and even raped. To do that would at the very least make a woman's daily life a living hell, possibly ruin her career or even bring her further physical harm.


You must provide females their constitutional right to terminate a pregnancy if that is her choice.

[jmowreader]

67. Dear General Cucolo...

I have read the pregnancy prohibition was part of a larger general order. Would it be possible for your PAO staff to publish here the entire general order?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

37. The general is right, by God!

Sex is a plot by communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

This must stop.

[Swede]

49. He is right.

You're part of a team in a combat situation. But the punishment should be the same for both male and female parents.

[Psephos]

51. The punishment is the same.

The father gets the same court martial as the mother.

[pipoman]

58. See the actual General's

response to this thread (post #32). The guy has stones to come here and post.

[RamboLiberal]

59. General backed down

An Army general in Iraq backed away from his threat today to court martial female soldiers who get pregnant.

"I see absolutely no circumstance where I would punish a female soldier by court martial for a violation ... none," Maj. Gen. Anthony Cucolo III wrote to ABC News in an exclusive statement. " I fully intend to handle these cases through lesser disciplinary action."

Cucolo triggered debate, some of it angry, when his Nov. 4 policy forbidding pregnancy among his soldiers became public recently. His policy statement said violation of the rule could be punishable by court martial, and that it would also apply to the men who get female soldiers pregnant, even if the couple is married.

While legal and military experts said the order was proper, a spokeswoman for the National Organization for Women called it "ridiculous."

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-backs-off-threat-court-martial-pregnant-soldiers/story?id=9399604

[BrightKnight]

69. The most important stake holder is the child and the unintended consequences

could be severe. A woman might choose to abort a pregnancy because of this. Also, a child might be denied a father. The policy drives couples apart.

The baby is the most important stake holder in the situation. Everything should be done to assure the best possible outcome for the child.

Also, abstinence programs do not work. Birth control does work and they should make it easily available to anyone with no questions asked. No general can stop the wind, tides, or babies.

[pipoman]

77. Birth control is readily available,

and in a war zone the overall safety and the mission of the 22,000 soldiers is in fact more important than any one individual regardless of age.

[BrightKnight]

79. I'm not that Spartan but I accept that a thoughtful application of

the current imperfect policy is about as good as anyone is going to be able to do. I can't fault the motivation behind it.

Opening a front in the reproductive rights war is not wise.

[pipoman]

81. I agree

that 'opening a front in the reproductive rights war is not wise'. People in this thread calling for free abortions don't realize the difficulty with that. The only way to remotely keep that sort of policy from becoming 'mandatory abortion' (which would be a complete disaster), would be to mete out the exact same punishment whether the soldier opted for abortion or to have the child.

[eringer]

70. Nothing new about a General behaving badly

This is just too absurd. His General Order makes the situation look like an epidemic. General Tony C. needs to get a life. Sounds like he drank too much egg nog at the HQ party. Time for him to return stateside, perhaps to a desk job in the Pentagon, where he can do little damage. I have attached something to help him get around his soon-to-be new digs.

[PavePusher]

71. Way to be an ass..... n/t

[pipoman]

76. Did you even bother to read this thread?

Apparently not, or you would have seen the General's actual, personal post in response, to which you could have pointed out specific points in his position which are "absurd". Ever been in the military, specifically in a command position in a combat zone? Didn't think so.

[PavePusher]

73. I will note that on EVERY deployment I've ever been on...

birth control was available FOR FREE.

Because the Command staff and the Medical staff understood reality.

If you are too stupid to use it in a war zone, you deserve a big career hammer.

[zanana1]

78. And we're fighting the Taliban WHY? nt

[Paper Roses]

80. As I read this, I shake my head in wonder.

What more insane or unfair things can this government come up with. I have a better solution.

All soldiers of any sex shall not be allowed to unzip their pants except to go to the latrine or to go to bed with their fellow soldiers in attendance. Yea, it's stupid but no more so than this unbelievable edict.

I cannot figure out whether this makes me angry or makes me laugh. How do they even think these things up?

[PavePusher]

82. Seriously?

Do you know anything about the military or current deployments?

Your post screams that you don't.