MINNESOTA: State wants buying limits on food stamps

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Fri, Mar. 12, 2004

MINNESOTA: State wants buying limits on food stamps

BY PATRICK HOWE

Associated Press


More than a year after Gov. Tim Pawlenty first proposed the idea, the state is asking federal permission to ban people from using food stamps to buy candy bars, soda and other so-called junk foods.

If the U.S. Agriculture Department approves the plan, Minnesota's welfare program would be the first in the nation to impose its own restrictions on the food recipients buy with their benefits.

The change wouldn't take effect for at least a year. It would have to pass the Legislature, where some anti-poverty activists oppose it as a mean-spirited intrusion into the cupboards of the poor.

In a letter sent Monday, the Human Services Department described the effort as part of a broader statewide effort to improve eating habits.
(snip/...)

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/politics/8164844.htm
(This may be a free registration site)

[izzie]

1. Are they sure this is a first?

My daughter was once on food stampers for 2 or 3 months and the rules were wild and I even had to sign a paper I would not eat her food, as she was living with me. I have also heard other say banana's as they did not come from this country, could not be bought and many other things.

[LosinIt]

2. A million years ago I worked in a grocery store and if memory serves

foodstamps couldn't be used for soda/soft drinks/pop and not juice drinks only juice. This is NY state and perhaps I am hallucinating, also I don't think they could purchase candy. I know they couldn't get paper products which I didn't really understand because although that wasn't food, everyone needs tp and feminine hygiene products.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I've been told that there are many food stamp restrictions

I've been in lines where food stamp recipiants have seperated their groceries into what was allowed/not allowed. Didn't think junk food was allowed then, and I know that paper products weren't.

[havocmom]

25. the WIC program provides for certain food products

Is it possible WIC vouchers were used in the instances you mention?

WIC program wants to assure that pregnant women and children in the program (and they do have a lot of hoops and interviews to go through) get milk, eggs, cheese, certain cereals (they do not allow highly sugared cereals), infant formula and juice (which also has a list of approved, not sugary ones).

WIC is different from food stamps.

In Montana, food stamps can be used for any food product in the grocery store except any prepared food from an in-store deli or any soda fountain drink. Canned or bottled soda is allowed. Beer and wine not allowed.

Most computerized scan-type cash registers can be programmed to tally what is allowed under the state's food stamp laws. Separate totals are shown so the cashier/customer knows how much actual cash is needed.

With the use of WIC vouchers, items must be separated from the rest of the purchasers' items. The WIC items are rung up as a separate sale and there are some details the cashier has to check. Vouchers are only good for a certain period of time, I assume to help teach and assure food budgeting. They have to be signed by the user and they are for a certain limited amount of $$. The cashier has to write in the actual amount of the sale. The store does not necessarily get the full amount of the voucher, just the actual amount of the items within the amount allowed on the voucher.

[dflprincess]

88. No it isn't the WIC vouchers

it's food stamps. As one of the posters above, I too worked in a grocery store while I was in high school and college. As was said food stamps could be used to buy anything edible (except prepared deli items - you could buy sliced meat). The hitch then was that you could only buy food made/grown in the US...except coffee. As I recall, most the people using stamps bought pretty wisely - rarely did you see someone buying a whole lot of junk food. Personally, I think this is mean and stupid and just another way for Pawlenty to show his contempt for the poor. Everyone needs an occasional cookie or dish of ice cream and I don't care if they use their food stamps to buy it.

[cleofus1]

4. hurmmmm

This might just be a good idea. Better they use their stamps to buy healthful foods. Those anti-poverty activists should choose their fights more wisely. Sounds like they're having a knee jerk reaction. In a news report it was said that hershey bars are a no-no but kit kat bars are ok (becouse they have flour in them).
So let's not get whipped up into a frenzy on this. Some people could use a little restraint on the consumption of junk foods (me included).

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[UpInArms]

29. eeekkks!

that is what I weigh - 100 pounds -

you could lose an entire person :D

[cleofus1]

31. yes dear

I often have

[BadGimp]

43. lol...some times the truth is just the truth

:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

my problem is people tell me I'm beautiful:

[cleofus1]

44. mmmmmm

you are a looker

[Occulus]

42. deleted

Nevermind.

[Skittles]

19. I find this attitude very arrogant

I eat OK but sometimes I like a candy bar. This is nothing more than another attempt to humiliate poor people.

[cleofus1]

22. i love to humiliate everyone

not just poor people. And if you really need a candybar get a job.
or buy a kit kat

[Skittles]

24. *censored*

nt

[cleofus1]

27. he ehe ehe

Let me know how you really feel. Is it a constitutional right for fat poor people to buy candy. Can a responsible government agency regulate that. And is this reasonable function of government? As a fat person who is also a diabetic...I say yes it is reasonable.

[Skittles]

50. *censored*

not worth it :puke:

[Serendipity36]

23. I agree

All the time I hear that the US has a huge obesity problem. Here in california the democrat state legislature tried to pass an obesity tax on soda in schools and use the money for health care.

The US is one of the very few nations where many of the poorest of the people are also really obese.

I fail to understand how we can fight obesity while condemn those who are planning on fighting obesity. It seems hypocritical.

I pay close attention to consumer food advocate groups and know that junk food is loaded with very unhealthy additives. I wished that lawyer in California would have proceeded with his lawsuit against Oreo cookies.

[Bunny]

39. Why don't you refer to it as the

Democratic state legislature? Not democrat, with a small d. Capitalize it and ad the IC.

Sorry, pet peeve, but if you stay on this board for a while,you'll find out that it's something you'll probably want to start doing.

[bobbieinok]

47. aren't many of the 'fat poor people' fat because of cheap foods

high in calories - bread, macaroni and cheese, etc???

I always thot that the reason young Italian women in movies were so beautiful and slim and the older ones 'heavy-set' was the result of years of childbearing and cheap food.

welcome any and all corrections - obviously know little about nutrition

[cleofus1]

54. often times

You can eat what you want al long as you excercise...When I was young I ate a very High carb high sugar diet andI was thin as a rail well into my 30's...now that I am more sedentary...well lets skipthat part.

[BiggJawn]

69. There's something to that.

Fatty foods are cheap. You can get a nice lean steak for $4.94 a pound, or 50% "lean" ground cow for $1.69. You can get fresh grean beans for $1.79 or a pound can of Frijoles (with lard) for 79 cents. You got 3 other people at home to feed and not much $$$ to do it with.

What you gonna do?

And a coupla candy bars because it's a "small pleasure" you think you deserve. After all, you work 40 hours a week, even if it's only for $5.35 an hour, right?

Nutrition education's only part of the solution.

[Zhade]

59. We seem to have a problem with priorities.

There is a gang of criminals, liars, and traitors occupying the White House illegally, invading and occupying other countries against international law based on lies...and we argue over whether or not people should be allowed to use food stamps to buy candy.

Big-picture, people. Throw the murderers in prison first, THEN argue about the candy!

[cleofus1]

61. you are making too much sense

you will have to leave now...(jokes)

[alittlelark]

86. You do make an awful lot of sense

FIRST THING TO DO AFTER KERRY STORMS THE W.H.......figure out how many candy bars a poor person should be able to purchase/consume.

Then, but only then, we will send the entirety of our current administration to the Hague - after we sign that world court thingie....

[RainBoy]

93. oh puhleeze.

it's a beatiful thing to fantisize about such things but Kerry has a long way to get elected and many, MANY hurdles. bushpappy was over 20 points behind Dukakis in '88 within several weeks of the election and bushpappy beat him. Don't mean to bring that up but we mustn't set ourselves up by believing this will be an easy victory.

I do happen to agree with Miss Serendipity that we should limit the crap people buy with food stamps. I don't mind my tax dollars helping feed poor people but I really care about my tax dollars needlessly funding health care for those who don't take care of themselves properly and that includes eating healthy. We have a major health issue on the verge of blowing up in our faces with obesity. We shouldn't enable people with food stamps to live an unhealthy lifestyle. That's not freedom, it's a form of oppression in a way. I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility when it comes to behavior we can control regardless of what it is. Society should not be forced to compensate people who engage in behavior that makes them an even greater burden on society. It's a waste of our public resources. People who can afford to pay for their own health care bear the burden of their bad behavior but when people on government assistance do not. I end up paying for it and so does every other tax payer. Also, resources are finite. When more is spent needlessly on one person it takes those resources away from others. It's a matter of consideration of the public assistance gives to others. There's nothing like the feeling of giving someone who leads you to believe they are starving some money and watch them buy booze or drugs to get loaded. It makes me feel my generosity was betrayed.

[Sugarbleus]

5. Maybe food stamp programs..

differ from state to state??? In California...........way back when I used them--1970's, the only thing we couldn't get was booze; there was one other thing, but I can't remember what it was--it wasn't candy or coke. Of course anything that wasn't edible was also a no-no;those types of things had to be purchased with cash.

I understand not allowing someone to waste so few F.S. bucks on booze but the rest of this new plan is extremely condecending and insulting to those that have to use them! *I just heard on my radio*, that the program you speak of is making "distinctions"...one cannot buy a Hersheys bar BUT they CAN buy a kit kat bar---> because the kit kat bar has FLOUR in it!!??!!

Now that both of you mention the do's and don'ts of the current Food Stamp program.............I'M PISSED OFF. These types of "control" over the mostly powerless/needy people IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! How DARE they?! Treating people like they were children and moreover SLAVES? What if that mother with children wants to throw a modest birthday party for her kids and wants some soda to go with it for the day; for example??? How BLOODY embarrassing for that person!

What the FxxK is up with this weight/food thing lately?? It's discrimination at it's worst. GIVE THE PEOPLE MORE money so they can AFFORD to buy greater quantities of food and more variety without going broke. First they throw people off of AFDC when mothers probably should have the choice to stay home with little babies or get HELP to go to school etc, now this. :grr:

I went to a nutritionist class tonight with others. The dietician was a TOTAL snob! I shop at a middle to low cost grocery, this little shrew probably never ever darkened the doorway of the place I shop. She went on and on about buying this type of food and that, and shopping at this type of store and so forth. I thought GET REAL. I have to cook for EVERYBODY and I can't afford those places and that type of stuff--maybe some but not all of it. Jeeeeezus!

This society is getting meaner, more shallow, and discriminatory by the day! Thanks for the heads up on this issue. I'm going to bookmark this thread.

[Lindacooks]

81. Well, Minnesota is now officially a mean state

No more liberal oasis, no more "Minnesota nice". The politics in this state have sunk so far that I am now ashamed to say I have been born and raised here.

This bill has one purpose and one purpose only: to demean poor people. Period. Repukes have NO concern for the poor's health and well-being. They are just nosy bastards who think they have a god-given right to butt into everybody's business.

[philosophie_en_rose]

7. People on welfare deserve some respect.

People on public assistance are attacked either way. Either they are fat slobs that are too stupid to choose their own groceries or they are welfare queens that eat filet mignon, etc. Food stamps usually have to last for a month. I don't blame anyone for choosing to buy the cheapest foods available.

Obesity is a dire problem, but it's not going to be solved by restricting foods. Some people need extra calories. Some people don't. However, the question for most people that use food stamps is whether they are going to have food all month or not. And even more nutritious foods can lead to obesity without exercise. What's next? Enforced exercise camps?

I work in Washington with low-income people. It's just a waste of time to focus on this issue. Poor people aren't the only ones that eat unhealthy food. They are just the ones that can't afford gym memberships and plastic surgery.

[tlcandie]

28. Thank you philosophie_en_rose!!!

Posters like you make my day!

When this country starts getting their priorites right by making available food that is actually nutritious (not chemically saturated/radiated till its dead, etc.) and making the cost where every day people can have the same healthy food choices, then they can stop picking on those less fortunate!

What about counseling them on making wise choices and how to cook healthy on a low budget and little time? Hell we could all use this!

This country needs to make HEALTHY, ORGANIC foods a priority pronto for EVERYONE not just a few!

Until then let's not point fingers and separate people because of their choices!

Isn't the best way to make changes positive rather than negatively pointing the finger, denying, and blaming? Gheesh!

[gottaB]

9. Surely General Mills is pleased

We need two separate programs, one called "Corporate Welfare," the other called "Don't let people starve because hunger causes all kinds of social problems so even if you don't care about the suffering of others, the eradication of hunger is in your own long-term interest, citizen."

One could argue that there's an enlightened self-interest to be served by Corporate Welfare, but you'll never hear that argument as long the pigs at the trough hide behind the poor and other convenient scapegoats. If you think about it for like 5 seconds or however long conscience dictates in this accelerated post-Wobegon world of ours, well, besides being contemptable it's an index of the utter disenfranchisement of the poor, and by extension, well, it doesn't bode well for the health of our republic.

Opponents of this scapegoating proposal need to be asking about like Frosted Flakes and Cap'n Crunch and ice cream and all that. Let's see what this is really all about.

And what about beef, which may have deleterious health effects. Does the Governor think foodstamps should mandate fish and chicken consumption, and strictly limit the intake of beef?

grrrr.

[ikojo]

10. At the risk of Godwin-izing the thread, this obsession

Americans have with body image and weight is reminiscent of Hitler and the Nazis obsession with the ideal German physique. I would not be surprised if mandatory weight camps, especially for kids, were to emerge.

[catmandu57]

14. Most people using food stamps

are quite good at budgeting, and using the stamps to get the most out of them. Sure, there are people who will buy junk, but they'll get awfully damn hungry later, and hunger is a good teacher, I know, I've been there.

One of the bitches I have with this argument of people buying junk on the public dollar is that they are being bombarded with advertising all day every day.
Companies that spend big bucks figuring out how to get people to buy, don't care if their crap is puechased with fs, green money, plastic or paper.

The point is they're good, and resistance can be lower with people using fs, especially younger, and people who haven't had nuch experience with budgeting.

If you/ve ever had to shop with children, how do you deny them one treat?, just one splurge, a candy bar or the cereal that they've seen the commercial aimed right at them 100 times a day? It's awfully damn hard.

I can pretty much tell you if you see someone buying junk with fs they have'nt been using them long.

[kimchi]

56. Off topic, but..

Last night my 16 month old daughter found a Nemo balloon on a stick, conveniently located at her level. When I tried to put it back in the rack she had a screaming fit; so I bought it for her.

I asked my husband afterward: How lucky are we to be able to afford that balloon? I can't imagine the stress one feels in not being able to buy their child a treat. I know how the child feels: because I've been there. My parents were too proud to get government cheese--so we ate potatoes, potatoes, mac and cheese, and somemore potatoes. Luckily my mother canned vegetables. On saturday and sunday we had real meat; not hotdogs. I spent HOURS in the five and dime deciding how to best spend my $2.00 allowance each week. At 7, I was adding purchases in my head; including sales tax. I knew better than to ask for something in the grocery store because I knew the answer: "I don't have enough money."

Give the poor some credit. They aren't all ignorant, selfish queens, even though that stereotype keeps getting promulgated, even on this progressive board.

[cleofus1]

63. teach your children well

teaching them that they can get what they want crying and making a scene is just not good child rearing. I try to say no at least half the time. The other half I'm usually broke...and no I don't drink or go out withtheboys.

[kimchi]

89. I'm tryin' cleofus1 !

She just started this whining thing. Noone ever tells you it is really the "Terrible 1 1/2s"!

I rarely give in to her; but my husband was already checking out when I had to return something...I chased her for a while before I gave in; I was in a hurry.

[AlienGirl]

87. I've been thinking the same thing

This whole culture seems to be heading down that road in so many ways.

Tucker

[cleofus1]

11. ok ok...flame me but

You guys sound like a bunch of self counscious fat bodies. It is healthy to eat good food. If you need a lift, try some carbs. Don't buy soda...buy juice...and if you really need a jones kit kat bars are still OK.
I'm not saying we shouldn't feed the poor...but just becouse you are poor does not mean you are above being regulated (as I am and companies are and political parties are etc.)
If you disagree I respect that...but when you start name calling I find my respect for you personally fall down a notch or two.

[TacticalPeek]

12. Eat the rich.

:silly:

[cleofus1]

16. drroool...

They are fat and tasty....

[shugah]

13. concern about health and nutrition of the poor is fine

but this type of BS has nothing to do with concern for those that live in poverty. it is indeed, simply "mean spirited" and i'm sure it has it's basis is in the good old "and all she bought was steaks for her and junk food for the kids, and then walked out in the parking lot and got into a brand new cadillac" urban legend.

the real myth about food stamps is that people who receive them actually receive enough to eat for the month they are supposed to cover, much less "eat healthy." i'm sure that most food stamp recipients have to budget a candy bar. pretty sad, really, that a parent should have to agonize about spending 55 cents to get a treat for their kid.

but, for some reason, there are people in this country who think that being poor is not punishing enough - they want the poor to live in some bleaker existence than they already do. poor people have no right to buy their child a candy bar!! and they certainly should never have any treat them self. that's their lot- suffering.

[bicentennial_baby]

17. I agree

I think this is wrong. Further punishment and stigmatizing of the poor.

[Design8edGrouch]

72. I couldn't agree more

These people who want to restrict the kinds of food bought with food stamps don't care about health it is just punishment for being poor. They forget that these kids don't get Mickey-D's or movies or trips to the local amusement park. Can they imagine what it must be like to be a poor kid taking her lunch to school and when lunch time arrives not having any of the treats that the other kids have. "LUNCHABLES" or fun and have great kid appeal but they are too expensive for the poor kid, but a candy bar may help that child feel like she is one of the group, The ice cream man comes down her street and the other kids get an overpriced treat. Shouldn't she be able to run home and get a generic frozen treat. These people have no experience in being poor but wanting desperately to fit in.

[GOPisEvil]

15. Food Stamp FAQ, direct from the USDA.

Question #9 deals with what can be purchased. A vague answer, though.

What's needed is increased nutrition education, so people know what to buy and how to buy and prepare it. Sounds basic, but not all of us grew up with June Cleaver for a mom.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/faqs.htm#9

[keithyboy]

18. I just can't wait until the children of the poor are healthier and smarter

than the rest. Once the conservatives find out that this might make these children a lot more competitive and lot more healthy, they will give up this battle. Just think if they fed the imprisoned a better, healthier diet they might get released and become doctors and lawyers and politicians and unseat the scroundrels. Look at the ones who educate themselves already without the benefit of good health and good food. Don't worry, as soon as they find out that this might benefit the poor they will stop it.

What make you think poor children should be able to eat candy anyway? Isn't that reserved for the wealthy?

end of sarcasim.

[wellst0nev0ter]

20. Good Thing That Poor People Do Actually

Irresponsibly spend all their money on junk food, or else I'd really be pissed.

Oh wait, they don't.

Not only does this further piss on the dignity of the poor, but it also forces them to spend more money on the same amount of food.

Thanx Pawlenty for effectively reversing the flow of the Mississippi :eyes:

[cleofus1]

21. OK I'm a confused guy

How does this force people to spend more money on the same amount of food? And if food stampers don't spend their money on candy and such...isn't this just the sound of one hand clapping.

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. It's Simple, Really

Healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy food, and in the end a poor person has gotta eat.

[mike1963]

97. I'm sorry but you are grossly mistaken (on at least 2 points)

First, there is no such thing is "healthy" food. Edible food has no "health". Food may or may not be "healthful", however.

Secondly, let's consider a few comparisons. You can make a very HEALTHFUL salad with half a head of lettuce (~40 cents), a tomato (~20 cents), a bit of onion and a couple of olives and a radish (15 cents maybe) for 2 people...that's about 37 cents per person. That amount will buy a doughnut.

Add 2 ounces of julienned ham (another 40 cents) and a dime's worth of mayo and you have a pretty good lunch. Or get another doughnut.

Which choice is more "healthy?"

[Kool Kitty]

49. When I was receiving food stamps,

candy was the very last thing on my shopping list, believe me.

[loftycity]

26. Pawlenty doing PR those items have been on the No list for 15 years.

[toopers]

30. Ok, I am confused?

How does limiting which foods a poor person is allowed to purchase with other people's money degrade that person, or further punish or stigmatize the poor? I think it would be much more stigmatizing to actually have to use food stamps.

In regards to the exercise issue, I have lost 50 pounds in the last year an have not exercised a bit. I have just reduced the amount of what I ate. I don't think I have eaten healthier. When you are on food stamps you should be buying the items that you need for sustenance, not desserts and candy bars.

[shugah]

32. why?

When you are on food stamps you should be buying the items that you need for sustenance, not desserts and candy bars.

why is it up to you what people on food stamps eat? because it's "your money?" do you have some kind of faith based initiative mind set or something? take care of the damn poor, as long as they do what is expected and demanded by your standards?

it's not "other people's money." it is the money of our society as a whole.

additionally, why should having to use food stamps be stigmatizing? i mean really, is there something wrong with being poor? poor people should be looked down? poor people don't need anything extra to make existence pleasant or bearable from time to time? they've got generic cheerios why the hell do they need something that tastes good? greedy goddamn poor people.
:eyes:

[toopers]

33. Since when is the money I work for society's money?

I guess you believe we all work for the government and that the government is nice enough to let us keep some of the money we earned?

I was brought up by my parents who said, "a borrower nor a lender be". I did not say that using food stamps should be stigmatizing. I said that "I think it would be much more stigmatizing to actually have to use food stamps", as opposed to not being able to buy a candy bar.

[shugah]

36. no, i pay taxes

and ideally, those tax dollars help to make all of society a better place for everyone within it. making the lot of those who are less fortunate more unbearable by policing their eating habits does not, to my way of thinking, make it a better place for everyone.

i was brought up by a parent who encouraged me to read shakespeare, and just so you know - polonius' advice to laertes is one of the most hypocritical passages in any of the bards great plays ;-)

[toopers]

52. Yes, I pay taxes too.

However, those taxes that I pay are my tax dollars, not society's dollars. Again, how is not eating a candy bar stigmatizing someone? My mother often told me I could not have candy. I guess I am lucky I don't need daily counseling!

[cleofus1]

34. yesiree bob

I like to think my tax dollars pays to feed and give medical attention to those who need it. But regulating food stamps is not unreasonable. Eating candy is not a matter of pride.

[shugah]

38. spending your food dollars

in the way you choose is a matter of dignity- it is degrading and condescending to tell a person they are too poor to make their own decisions. sorry if you don't see it, and hope you never have to attempt to live on food stamps!

[cleofus1]

40. I am a product of the middle class

only becouse my father worked his hands till they were bloody...and my mother worked in factorys making toys that she could not afford to buy for her own kids. We had a house and a car and clothes and most of the time food to eat.
but only becouse of the hard work and sacrifice of my parents.
I've been poor in my life...no money to eat...stealing stuff and taking drugs...but I changed and now I work my ass off for my wife and kids. So what? Being poor and hopeless is not a matter of pride...and buying a candy bar is not anyone's right...

[Skittles]

51. are you inferring poor people are lazy?

this is not about YOU. EVERYONE'S EXPERIENCE IS DIFFERENT.

[cleofus1]

55. no i am not inferring anything

please forgive me for sharing...i realize you must hate me by now...but try to take what I say with a grain of salt and understand that i can only speak from my own expericance...which is extensive. I'm native american and i've have many friends family and aquaintances that havelived in poverty and that recieved food stamps. i do not believe for a minute that restrictions such as this would cause them unreasonable discomfort. many poor people work very hard...i know i have and so many others that i know. but whether or not you can buy sweets with food stamps is not a heinous act.

[kimchi]

57. and I am a product of the working poor class

And my father worked his ass off too, for very little money, and my parents reared 6 children, including myself, whom they adopted.

Just so you know; not every poor person feels hopeless. And most people have to swallow a lot of pride to even accept food stamps. I'm beginning to think my parents did the right thing in not signing up; seeing as how the stigma of being poor hasn't changed in the last 30 years. It was bad enough having to wear clothes from the GoodWill that were out of style; but hey, at least I got a candy bar a few times a month.

:eyes:

[toopers]

58. So, what's your point

Sorry, I missed it.

[kimchi]

90. That's okay; I'll try to be more clear this time.

Most poor people work just as hard as middle class; and usually much harder. They aren't poor because they are lazy. I'm just sayin'.

[cleofus1]

65. hopeless?

I feel there is always hope aslongas you are alive...it is not a matter of being poor. it is your self image...

[AlienGirl]

82. SELF-IMAGE AGAIN

When did "not having a good self-image" become a moral failing and the Source Of All Your Problems?

Tucker

[toopers]

53. BS - It is not a matter of dignity . . .

It is a matter of necessity, that should be short lived. Let's see, the individual doesn't have enough pride to not accept food stamps and use them, but they have too much pride to not eat a candy bar. Hysterical!

[preciousdove]

60. Welfare as you knew it is gone, ,gone, gone.

People on foodstamps today have genuine impediments to self sufficency. They had them at Jamestown and provided for them and they will have them forever. How we deal with the least of us defines the values of our society. Persuit of happiness is mentioned prominently by the forefathers.

This is simply a psychological campaign to dehuminize and allow the government to take away freedoms by crimminalizing bad behavior and keep us busy with this nonesense so we can't making them deal with the destructive crimminal behavior in our government and corporations.

A shared piece of chocolate goes a long way to ease bad days at school and on the playground when clothes, and lifestyes are used as weapons. And yes fruit would be better but chocolate is cheaper, not totally unhealthful and foodstamps no longer cover a balanced diet full of healthy foods. The only way I would agree to this is to raise the amount of foodstamps people get so they can buy healthy, fresh, lean foods.

Minnesota used to be progressive and our quality of life even for the poor was good enough to keep crime and other failed society ills low.
We have been going down the wrong road for some time because of ignorance and rampant fundementalisim. I think Street Smarts, Howard Stern and Jerry Springer is a showcase for what America has become.

updated for spelling

[RobinA]

62. It's Not Up To Anybody

what people on food stamps eat. It's up to somebody what people can spend food stamps ON. What they do with other money is their business.

I work with poor people enough not to buy into this "noble poor person" meme. Some people on food stamps are great at budgeting and can stretch a dollar like I cannot believe. Other poor people will buy an X-Box before feeding the kids or paying the electric bill.

People on food stamps are just like people not on food stamps. Some are smart about it, some people satisfy themselves for the moment. Some sell food stamps for drugs and let the children go hungry.

I'm totally in favor of limiting the junk food stamps can buy. Milk is good for healthy kids, Milky Ways are not. Some poor people can make that decision for themselves, some cannot. Just like non-poor people.

[cleofus1]

67. amen

i agree

[noonwitch]

35. It will be hard to enforce in states that still use the actual stamps

In Michigan, we have "bridge cards" that electronically track the benefits for the month. If any states are still using the stamps, people will still be able to use them at any stores that use non-computerized cash registers, for whatever the merchant wants to accept them for.

[Bandit]

37. How about Cocoa Puffs?

There are many types of sweets and beverages. Do the "New Age" Beverages meet the soda definition? Or how about Teas? Talk about a bag of worms.

[cleofus1]

41. and oh yes

no one gives you dignity. You give it to yourself.
And eating candy will not give it to you.

[SoCalDem]

45. The whole point will be moot soon, anyway

The stigma with food stamps was always the "book of stamps" itself.. There was no disguising what people bought with them.. More and more states are going to the "card" system.. It looks exactly like an atm card.. The register sorts out what is eligible and what is not.. There is no way at the end of a transaction, for anyone to even know what was bought with food stamps and what was purchased with cash..

Even people on food stamps need shampoo, toothpaste, paper products, pet foods (should poor people not be allowed to have pets either?), and the assorted things that people buy at the grocery store, and those things are prohibited from food stamp use..

With the card system, there is no more of the cashing of a one dollar food stamp for a pack of gum, so they can get 75C cash back. The card only deducts the exact amount, and leaves the rest for a future purchase..

Legislatures intended food stamps for people who were hungry.. I have no problem with disallowing junk foods. Potato chips are not a necessity, nor is soda pop. If the people using stamps want to buy these items, they still can...just not with their allotment of food stamps..

[ConcernedCanuk]

48. Personally I Think the "food stamp" idea is insane - -

.
.
.

I lived in CA for over a year in the 70's, and people would just sell their food stamps for 25 - 50 cents on the dollar to get cash to buy whatever they wanted, beer, - whatever

I know they have a slightly different system now, but people can still sell their food for cash to get, whatever . .

Here in Canada, welfare recipients just get the money, and spend it however they want

- most use our food banks to supplement their diets as well

in my city of 50,000 people, there are about a dozen food banks, and if one knows the schedules, etc, they can pretty well survive food-wise just on the food-banks - "survive" being the important distinction. It supplies considerably below a "balanced" diet . .


Just to give you an idea of what a single person on Welfare in Canada gets, they get 195 a month "basic" plus their rent, up to 325 for rent, or a total of 520 a month

Rates increase for both rent and food for those with children or "mates"

We give our people at least enough credit that they will keep enough money to survive anyways !!

Food Stamps is just plain insulting !!

That's my opinion anyways - -

[preciousdove]

64. Most people on food stamps do not do this...

You cannot punish all people on food stampa for the ones misusing foodstamps anymore than you can punish all people who run companies for the crimes that other companies management commit.

(Actually the Martha Stewart trial proves that you can but I am hopeful that that will turn around on appeal).

[cleofus1]

68. poor martha

She is someone who i like.

[slappypan]

66. could this be more petty

I suppose you will be able to buy a big bag of white sugar or a tub of margarine (hydrogenated oil, one of the most unhealthy substances there is), but not a candy bar. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[cleofus1]

70. becouse

you can bake and or cook with those items...or maybe you just don't cook...

[slappypan]

74. it's the exact same stuff, chemically speaking

It's "junk food" whether you bake the sweets at home or buy them in a bag. Cooking at home does not magically confer health benefits on unhealthy substances.

[toopers]

75. you need sugar to make dough

It is essential in getting the yeast to rise for bread.

[slappypan]

76. frankly I don't care what they do with it

Still not convinced any greater purpose is served by micromanaging people's food choices. Either we give them money for food or we don't.

[toopers]

77. Well, I do care what they do with my money

If that means that can't buy candy bars and potato chips - or micromanage their food purchase - that is fine.

[shugah]

85. i fear you simply do not "get it"

but don't feel all alone - there are many in this country who think just as you do. wouldn't your life be simpler if there just weren't any poor people? they're always trying to get at your wallet so they can eat candy, aren't they? :eyes:

my sincerest wishes that you never have to attempt to survive on public assistance. :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. All of the above debate aside,

this is Tim Pawlenty we're talking about. In the six or seven months I've been back in Minnesota, I've learned to look at ANYTHING Pawlenty proposes, no matter how good it sounds, and think, "Okay, where's the catch?"

Chances are that this proposal is NOT directed at better nutrition for the poor. The way to accomplish that would be to take the approach that the New Haven Food Co-op took back in the 1970s: offer free classes in cooking nutritious meals with cheap ingredients.

I bet this proposal came about because some rich contributor of Pawlenty's saw someone paying for a Snickers bar with food stamps and was out outraged that "his" tax dollars were going to pay for someone else's modest indulgences.

This is just my guess based on what I've observed about the present-day Minnesota Republican party.

[hyphenate]

73. Well,

I'm currently on food stamps, and boy is it a life saver. Actually, we don't get "food stamps" here, but the EBT card. When you run it through at the end, there is less stigma, because it works the same as an ATM card. It will automatically separate out the non-food items and bill the EBT for food only.

I don't buy much meat, as I don't eat beef or pork, only seafood and poultry. Usually, I will buy ground turkey to make spaghetti sauce or meatballs. Chicken breasts are cheaper if you buy it in bulk, so when I can, I buy that. On the other hand, if I want fish, I have to only buy a little to "treat" myself, because fish is very expensive, even here in Massachusetts. Tuna fish is another story: I try to buy it when it's on sale, because I can always throw together a casserole or tuna salad on a moment's notice.

I have always bought mainly for one, but when I was younger, I learned to cook in bulk. So I make huge pots of soup and stew, store them in storage bowls and freeze some for later. I also buy whatever happens to be on sale when I go to the grocry store, like pasta or canned soups or prep mixes. I don't eat a heckuva lot of junk food, but I usually buy candy at Target when I have some pocket money, because it's often more expensive than at the grocery store anyhow, and if there has just been a holiday, most stores will have chocolate on sale, often up to 75% off, from the previous holday (Valentines Day was great to shop after--all kinds of great chocolate for sale!)

The last two months I even managed to have some stamps left at the end of the month. Since I buy mainly foods that can be prepared, it saves a lot of money over TV dinners, for instance, even though I have to cook, because I like to cook.

TV dinners, for one, has a lot of extra junk in them that makes them both costly to your health and costly to your pocketbook. There is a high content of salt in them, as well as saturated fats and trans fatty acids. I grab one on occasion, but I could never make a steady diet of them. They also cost a lot more than buying real produce, real meat and good carbohydrates.

If I can live on the amount of food stamps I get a month, there is no reason why most families can't do it as well. Personally, I see nothing wrong with buying cake mixes or some treats, but I do see a lot of people on AFDC being more lazy than they should be, buying things like TV dinners and other prepared food because they're too lazy to cook. That's a bigger problem than simply buying junk food--not caring enough to look at the list of ingredients on products and determining what is unhealthy and what is not. We all have our "comfort foods" which aren't healthy. What really needs to be done, rather than try to control what people eat, is to have a mandatory videotape or class for the FS recipient, to help them better choose foods to make or prepare for their families. By teaching them about food choices and preparation, they're giving people better tools to make decisions with, and at the same time, helping to educate the public in general about what is and what isn't good to buy and eat.

[uhhuh]

78. Hmm

"My money", "My tax dollars".

Why should the poor be able to decide what they do with "my money"?

Why should you?

It could be said that people who get food stamps earned them by performing the necessary tasks and meeting the requirements for getting them. I would say that it is their money after that.

When you go to work, you are earning your money by completing the necessary tasks for your job and meeting the requirements. if you were told that to "earn your money", that you would be instructed how to spend it, how would you react?

Why can't the company decide what you get to eat?

Companies like Walmart have a mandatory cheer that you have to say before opening. Do you think it would be degrading to have to give a " Go G.W! cheer before work?" Would you just do it and accept it a a fair part of your job?

It could be said that we are all, in fact, on welfare. The goverment is the sole determiner in the areas of fair wages, occupational safety, and freedom from discrimination. If you think your companies' owners and managers wouldn't just love to pay you minimum wage or less for what you do, and that they respect and value you as a person, you are sadly deluded. They will pay what they can get away with. The government has rules on what the limits are.

I am not saying that it wouldn't be nice for poorer people to make better food choices, but so should most people. I think it's as fair to restrict their choices as it is to restrict the choices of those who think they earn their own money.

I think a more fair solution to solve the obesity ills of society would be to criminalize unhealthful foods. I don't agree with it, but it would be more fair. Would all of you like to be told that YOU can't buy a candy bar anymore with the money the government lets you "earn"?

[toopers]

79. Just out of interest . . .

what has the food stamp collector done to earn my money, other than not be able to provide for himself/herself, or family?

Many businesses have job requirements that extend beyond work. For instance, most companies will not allow you to do things that would bring about a negative image on the company.

Some companies do not allow their employees to smoke, at all.

If you don't like the rules I can leave. If I do something wrong, the company can fire me.

I can't stop paying taxes because someone misuses my tax payment.

[uhhuh]

80. sure you can

If you don't like the way someone misuses your tax payment, you can go where you feel you would be treated more fairly. There is no requirement that you live under this tax system. You can go where you want. Remember, you are a wage "earner"!!!!

What heve you done to "earn" your money? You do what is required of you. What is currently required of welfare recipients is to fill out the proper forms, and be in the proper income range for the benefits.

Are you saying that because you think what you do is "harder" than that, that you should decide how they spend their "earnings"?

"If you don't like the rules I can leave."

I don't like the rules....

[yardwork]

83. Many of the poor don't have access to healthy foods.

Few grocery stores are located in low-income neighborhoods. Many poor people don't own cars. Rural areas don't have public transportation.

A lot of poor people eat at convenience stores because that's all they have. There was an article in our local paper about this. A woman said she had to choose between buying all her family's food at the convenience store, or walking four miles each way (eight miles total) along a highway with her toddlers to get to a grocery store that sold fresh vegetables.

We all know what is available for sale at convenience stores.

People need to look at the big picture before they judge others, imo. And our government policies need to look at the big picture, even when the facts don't fit in TV soundbites.

[mike1963]

96. I'm not "supposed" to know this, but what the hell...

I work on the DHS computers here in Oklahoma and it isn't too hard to find out some information...(this might cost me a job) - in the 2 counties I can look at, 94% of people getting food stamps have cars.

Which implies they can afford gas to run them. This is not a moral judgment, it's a simple fact.

Edit: I looked at some more files...one does not have to be destitute, or even seriously poor to get food stamp benefits. I have no problem helping people get nutrition, but can't really see any rationale for giving them free candy.

[RainBoy]

98. Oh bullshit..

Don't make excuses for people's behavior problems like that. You act as if the only food in poor neighborhoods are twinkies and soda. Puhleeeze.

Convenience stores? Hahahahaha!!!! food there cost almost double than at many regular supermarkets.

[AlienGirl]

84. Notice the unmentioned assumptions in this move?

It's as if there's an *assumption*, completely to be taken for granted, that large amounts of food-stamp money goes to "luxuries" like candy. In other words--work under the base assumption that the poor are lazy and taking advantage of the system. It's the old assumptions about the "undeserving/unworthy poor."

And since glorification of the body and fitness is such a big deal right now, suggesting that the "unworthy poor" are using charity to become unfit is much like suggestions in previous times that the "unworthy poor" were using charity for sinful purposes.

Only the churches have changed, with the new object of worship being Physical Fitness and the new moral virtue being exercise and nutrition, while the new sin is candy.

And as before the poor person is assumed to be sinful. It's Calvinism redux.

Tucker

[rucky]

91. I work in a grocery store

i hate to say it, but alot people (about 50%) use their EBT money almost exclusively for junk. maybe they really are in need, maybe they aren't... if they are, they are in need of some nutrition education AND some tips on how to stretch their dollar (shopping the peremeter of the store). I feel bad saying it, but that is definately what I have observed & I won't make any further judgements from it.

[preciousdove]

92. I bet you buy in a grocery store too.

So you are saying that the majority of the junk food in your store is purchased by people with EBT cards? I am guessing not.

Now think about having a clerk or the person behind you checking out what you buy every time and deciding that you are doing it wrong because they are vegan, non-dairy, low carb or low fat advocates. Or perhaps you visited the doctor too many times last year as opposed to the national average and you must be eating wrong. Would you want someone to tell you by law what you could and could not eat?

It is like the impression that African American's commit more crimes in relation to their populating another popular "observation" that causes people to be pulled over for "driving while black" or being followed in stores.

Yes people should be encouraged to eat well but making buying candy a crime is not what government and aid should be about.

Just my observations.

[RainBoy]

99. Learn to comprehend what you read

befire you flame others.

The person you responded to

1) never said anything about the majority of junk food is bought by welfare people. I read it as a lot of people use EBT cards to buy junk food.

2) never eluded to african-americans anywhere. If you are referring to blacks I find that remark absolutely condescending. For one thing, my best friend 10 years ago was an african-american. She was born and raised in south africa and became a naturalized US citizen. Oh yeah, she's whiter than Frosty the Snowman too.

3) never even mentioned anywhere that buying a freaking candy bar as a crime. Some idiot lawyer in california last year tried to sue to prevent kids from buying Oreo cookies because of a health issue.

Now, as I stated before it's not government money feeding people who use EBT. It's my tax dollars feeding them. I don't mind helping people feed themselves but like hell if I want my tax dollars being used to feed people in ways that make them require more of my tax dollars for health care related issues such as obesity, etc as a result of their dietary irresponsibility.

You need to understand that. Have we not discovered that the deep pockets of government social programs are not actually that deep? It's more difficult to help all people in need when there are some out there who live and behave irresponsibly and require extra funding to pay for health care expenses as a result. I have a real problem with that and it's about time to we did something about it. People on public assistance need to show some respect for the money WE ALLOW THEM TO HAVE. It's not their money. It's our money. We worked to earn it and they ought to be thankful to get it. I call welfare 'AID', not 'Benefit', and most certainly not 'entitlement'.

As long as working people like me are getting up and out there every day to earn the tax dollars that welfare people get and since we will be paying their health care bills I say that does give us a RESPONSIBILITY to ensure that welfare people are using our hard earned money wisely and efficiently. And I'd say that ensuring that welfare people eat right to prevent future expensive health care issues is definitely our right and responsibility as long as people like me are going to be the ones paying their bills.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike1963]

94. I'm not an expert, but I service a lot of the POS terminals we use here in

Oklahoma and I do see people using the "Access" cards (credit-card-like replacement for the old paper ducats) to buy a lot of Twinkies, Pepsi, Fritos and such. Now, I'm not passing any moral judgment on them (hell, I chomp on a handful of corn chips from time to time) but it does seem to me that they're wasting a lot of resources. In this state, there are few restrictions on what food 'stamps' can be used to buy - most anything that isn't pre-cooked (and is edible) is approved.

I guess I'd rather they would allow them to be used for common medicine instead of cookies and cake if it came down to a choice...and of course it's perfectly acceptable to buy the absolutely worst "food bargain" with them, that being bacon (which, if you figure what you get after cooking costs about 14 bucks a pound) -

This part of the country is host to some of the fattest people I've ever seen, and a LOT of them are using food stamps to buy ...well, crap.
Flame away...

[ScottInFlorida]

95. Sounds like a good idea to me...

Looks like Minnesota is onto a good idea.

For the life of me though, when was it okay to buy junk food with food stamps?

Seems to me that if you're getting something for free you shouldn't complain about what you can use it for.

What's so mean spirited about being "pro-good-nutrition"?

Regards,

S>

[bleedingheart]

100. As a kid my parents got food stamps

My dad was on a 9 month lay off and we got food stamps and my mom used them to buy food. Now I can tell you that my mom bought mostly healthy stuff but I do recall that she also bought us treats sometimes so I am not going to demean people on foodstamps. Life can be cruel enough to the poor why do we have to heap more grief upon them?

[CoupdEtat2000]

102. Whe all else fails start hounding the poor more.

As far as I'm concerned a soda and a damn candy bar is a fricking necessity if you are unemployed and having to rely on food stamps.

How damned important is this anyway?? Eating habits my ass.

[JCMach1]

103. This is ludicrous... why not just let them buy bread and

water... (full sarcasm mode)

If a candy bar will give them a few seconds of pleasure while they worry about being evicted, or even finding a job, then frankly they deserve it.