Snohomish County police officer charged in killing

[superconnected]

Source: Herald Writers

EVERETT — The officer had enough arguing with the drunken man behind the wheel of a white Corvette.

“Time to end this; enough is enough,” Everett police officer Troy Meade allegedly said before firing eight shots through the car's rear window.

Meade, 41, was charged Monday in Snohomish County Superior Court with first-degree manslaughter in the death of Niles L. Meservey.

It marks the first time that a Snohomish County police officer has faced criminal prosecution in connection with a shooting in the line of duty.

Read more: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091027/NEWS01/710279887#Snohomish.County.police.officer.charged.in.killing.

---

This is my town. I'm surprised it's gotten to this.

[superconnected]

1. Ah, This is in WA state - 30 miles from Seattle.

[rgbecker]

2. I hope the officers in my town have a little more patience.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. This is my hometown. I am surprised too.

But..I have been gone since Everett had a pop. of 50,000.
2 of my brothers were on the force back then, one is retired.
Guess a lot has changed since I left.

[Tx4obama]

4. This proves that drinking & driving is dangerous. n/t

[Grassy Knoll]

5. That does it, I'm selling my Vette !

:sarcasm:

[uppityperson]

6. don't know what to write. shaking my head here.

[Soylent Brice]

7. honest question: do they perform any type of psych eval on people before they get to be cops?

[Gman2]

11. Had a pal/friend in high school. He threw wrenches at cats, at times.

Went bashing. Went thru Marines. Wanteed to GLASS all the Arabs. Not friend for 23 years. But. He was caught, psychwise, before he got into law enforcement. So, yes, some are weeded out. I knew one.

[Soylent Brice]

18. that's beyond fucked up. really.

at least he didn't get a badge, but damn.

[era veteran]

12. Anybody that wants to be a cop probably shouldn't

I think they should draft for the police

[Soylent Brice]

19. that's a very interesting idea.

belated welcome to DU

:hi:

[era veteran]

32. THANKS

I have lurked for years but a recent illness & bad weather have made me more active here I love DU I really do think police should be drafted with a permanent cadre of detectives etc There are good cops but it seems the job screws up their mind,

[guyton]

27. also ... POTUS

hah, not just cops.

Anyone with an ego big enough that they really believe they should be President of the US should be committed for their own safety (and ours)

[era veteran]

33. I agree

How much worse would it be if all Constitutional offices were filled by a draft of the citizenry?

[paulsby]

23. several. i had to take

the MMPI, a rorshach (sp?) a stanford binet iq test, and interview with a psychologist for about an hour.

that's par for the course with most agencies.

[bertman]

8. The article says Meade is not considered a flight risk and does not have access to firearms.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This guy lives in AMERICA and they say he doesn't have access to firearms. Cue "Twilight Zone" theme music.

[Schema Thing]

9. manslaughter?

[Are_grits_groceries]

14. That's what I was wondering. nt

[robo50]

53. Self Delete

[SKKY]

59. Unless they're saying he was "provoked", I don't get it either.

[winyanstaz]

10. If you or I shot some stranger 8 times with a gun...just cause they pissed us off...

It would not be called manslaughter.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

13. I too

live in Everett and when I was a drinking man, had a few at that very bar.
Don't understand the policeman's thinking at all...........

[tularetom]

15. Got a grudge against somebody? Wanna waste 'em?

Become a cop and blow them away. A slap on the wrist is all you'll get.

[happygoluckytoyou]

16. if he is SNOHOMISH, he should attend a 12 step program--- he probably wasn't born THAT WAY

[superconnected]

43. He well might have been.

http://www.snohomishtribe.com/

[CBGLuthier]

17. Notice this man refused to talk to cops

Something we have been saying on DU for ages now.

Never talk to the cops. It can not help you. See, even a bad cop knows this fact.

[paulsby]

24. it's a stupid rule

if people didn't talk to cops, far less guilty people would be put in jail.

"stop snitchin'" is a cancer.

[CBGLuthier]

28. Not talking about snitching

I am saying that when the cops start questioning you about anything you should shut up and get a lawyer.

This is advice given by both cops and lawyers but you go ahead and do what you want. I see no reason to help a cop convict me of a crime.

[paulsby]

31. imo, it's OFTEN bad advice

and i've argued against it before

here's a hint

if you are NOT guilty of a crime, but are being questioned, you can ALLAY suspicion and point it towards the right person, for instance.

i personally have been in that situation (when i was in college) and i did the right thing, and they were off looking for the real bad guy

if you are guilty as #(#$(, it is often not in your best interests to talk to cops. but even that's not necessarily true. look at gary ridgway. he cooperated with police questioning during the height of the green river killings (he was a suspect) and he managed to allay suspicions and was never arrested. he was only arrested YEARS later when DNA evidence came into vogue.

if, back in the day, he had refused to talk to cops,. they would have focused much more on him, and probably would have caught him imo

regardless, i've talked to DEFENSE attorneys who have even said that if you are innocent, and especially if it is just field questioning (vs. interrogation at the station), you are often in your best interests to explain away (see: terry stop). the majority of terrys result in no charge/arrest. but they are questioning

[sendero]

40. Only stupid cop..

.... thinks there is a reason to spill your guts to the police. It is as likely to work against you as for you, probably more likely.

While at trial, testimony that someone heard you say blah blah blah is "hearsay" and inadmissable, if a cop says you said it, it is gospel. Cops lie on the stand all the time. I'm not going to talk to them and then have them turn around and lie about what I said.

If a cop thinks you are guilty nothing you are going to say is going to sway them. They all think they are geniuses, most I've dealt with are morons.

Our legal system gives citizens the right to not talk to cops for a reason. A damn good reason.

[paulsby]

46. this is your unsubstantiated opinion

that it is MORE likely to work against you.

ime, and i am talking 20 yrs of police experience, AND experience as a youngster being questioned by cops, the opposite is true

since you have no data, and i have tons more experience, you haven't convinced me

also, people on the outside looking at this issue suffer from selection bias.

you don't see the tons of incidents where talking to the cops helped, because in most of those cases, no charges are preferred, and thus you don't even hear about them

you hear about the cases that go to trial, not the ones that don't

the media doesn't report "the cops in seattle made 40 terry stops last night, only 3 of which resulted in arrest"

you read "the cops arrested 3 in pioneer square last night"

see: SELECTION bias

[sendero]

48. Not unsubstantiated..

... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

I'll take this guy's word over yours any day.

[paulsby]

49. you can take whomever's word you want

i deal in evidence, not arguments from authority.

or authoritah as it may suit you...

i can think of literally HUNDREDS of incidents, just in my experience where people who were suspected of X, and questioned by me, helped themself by talking. furthermore, they helped society by not wasting police resources and pointing us in the correct direction.

here's a simple example.

you lock your keys in your car.

it's 2 am

cop sees you trying to get into a car (he doesn't know it's your car), with a coat hanger.

does he have reasonable suspicion to detain you?

yes.

is he going to question you?

yes

is it in your best interests to explain that you are actually breaking into your own car?

yes

you provide ID, that matches the car registration, and the cop says "have a nice night". in some cases, he may even help you get in, with a slim jim (my agency won't, for liability reasons, but many agencies do).

if instead, you respond to his questions with "i'm not saying anything w/o a lawyer" you are not helping your case, you are HURTING it

you are doing nothing wrong, and can easily allay suspicion

that is one example. there are hundreds more

hth

[treestar]

54. Still, no one should talk to a cop without a lawyer if they think they

might at all be a suspect. Especially if they are innocent.

This is nothing against cops. But that is to solve the crime and it is human nature to want the first person they think guilty to be so.

[paulsby]

58. that is again WRONG

look at the example i gave. at the time you are stopped, you are a suspect for car prowl

but by giving information, since you are innocent, you can allay suspicion and the cop moves on

look at my example.

that's one example of HUNDREDS that i have personally experienced

it's a dumb rule, because i can give literally hundreds of examples where it doesn't apply.

let me give you one more...

i was stopped (felony stop) at gunpoint in california, back when i was a young surf punk. i was driving a green van.

they got me out of the car, proned me out etc.

to make a long story short, a store had just been robbed, and the guy had long hair and was driving a green van. i fit all of those descriptors.

i happened to NOT be the robber, and in fact i had a receipt (and some food) from the drive through i had just gone through to prove i was nowhere near the robbery when it occurred.

and that was it. the cops had the wrong guy, although they were ENTIRELY justified in stopping me at the time, and they moved on to look for the real bad guy.

could i have said nothing, since i was a SUSPECT?

of course.

would it have been the right thing to do ?

no

again, i can give hundreds of examples that show that this policy is dumb

[superconnected]

44. I haven't had a problem talking to cops - usually talking to them solves my problems.

But, I guess it depends what you do.

Of course the guy in the article definitely had a problem dealing with the cops but then he was drunk and arguing. That cop was psycho though.

[Exultant Democracy]

57. I'm far more in favor of Jury nullification, no more convictions on drug charges.

[Euromutt]

20. If I were on the jury, I'd vote to acquit

For everybody who missed it because they didn't read the article: the deceased was drunk driver who was so fucking drunk he was trying to drive away from the traffic stop. If that's not an imminent threat to innocent life and limb, I don't know what is, and I think it's far from unlikely the cop saved one or more people's lives by doing what he had to to stop the drunk, if not that night, then at some future date.

[Mithreal]

21. Forgot your sarcasm tag?

That comment is indicative of being too stupid to drive, serve on a jury, or I might go so far as to say, be an American, no offense. Care to give me your license plate number so I can give a special someone a headsup? I have multiple cops in my family including service in WA state.

And you favor death penalty for this? Please just stay inside your house, don't vote either.

That may have been too harsh, but the devaluation of human life disgusts me.

[Euromutt]

39. "No offense"?

Sticking "no offense" on the end of a pretty damn offensive statement does not actually mitigate its offensive. FYI, I have a clean driving record, and I actually went to some effort and expense to gain US citizenship; I didn't just get it by accident of birth. I might add that the previous administration should be evidence enough that there's no such thing as "too stupid to be an American."

And what exactly would you tell your cop relatives? "There's this guy and he really doesn't like idiots who drive drunk and then try to flee the stop while still hammered"?

You know what devaluation of human life disgusts me? The kind that makes someone think it's okay to get behind the wheel of 3,300 lb., 350 hp motor vehicle and try to drive away when they're caught. DUIs caused 11,773 deaths last year in the U.S. That's devaluation of human life, and if you want to get all self-righteous, maybe people who drive under the influence are the ones you should be getting honked off at.

[Mithreal]

47. Your comments are really not worth my time

but ever heard of sarcasm?

DUI deaths are something to be enraged about but so are people who advocate death penalty in such instances that you chose to advocate. One does not exclude the other. No offense to you, but your comments, yes, those were offensive.

[skoalyman]

22. Good grief just because he was drunk doesn't mean he deserved 8 slugs

and a dirt nape for eternity for crying out loud. He should have flatten the guys tires or shot up the guys engine or broke the guys window out and snatched the keys something beside blowing the guy away.

[Euromutt]

37. The deceased wasn't "just drunk"

He was drunk in control of a 3,300-lb, 350 hp motor vehicle, and actively attempting to flee a traffic stop. He was also headed away from the cop, which would have ruled out trying to disable the engine (if handgun ammo is even capable of that) or snatching the keys (I think if that latter had been feasible Officer Meade would have done it already rather than using his taser). Police don't try to shoot out tires, lest the bullets ricochet off the pavement and strike a bystander. Bullet going in unpredictable directions is also a risk of trying to disable the engine. The safest place to put bullets is in the body of the suspect; safest for everyone except the suspect, obviously.

To give you an idea where I'm coming from, consider this: in 2008, DUIs killed 11,773 people in the United States, 31.6% of motor vehicle collision deaths. That same year, the number of people murdered using guns and knives was 11,381. DUI is not something to be taken lightly.

[WatchWhatISay]

45. So kill the car. Front windshield would work well.

Makes more sense to me

[winyanstaz]

50. Oh I see what your saying...its ok to murder a drunk if they are driving and piss you off. :)

[Euromutt]

51. Nice straw man

If you'd paraphrased my statement as "I'm not going to condemn a cop for employing lethal force to stop a drunk driver before that driver kills a carload of innocent people," then you'd have been in the ballpark. I'm not advocating summary execution for any and all drunk drivers here, but I am advocating that shooting this particular drunk driver was preferable to risking him killing somebody else.

[paulsby]

26. i wouldn't do this, and i've had this happen to me

it does not meet either the WA state law standard, nor my agency's standard (which is more restrictive than state law. no agency can be LESS restrictive) for deadly force.

in my agency, we can PIT a car for suspected DUI if he tries to flee (and i have done this), but you cannot shoot the person unless the standards for deadly force are met

in the case of a drunk driver, which is misdemeanor flight, either the cop or a citizen had to be in imminent danger.

sorry.

i teach firearms to cops, and deadly force is part of the curriculum. that's the law.

[Euromutt]

38. I'm not going to argue what the standards are

You're the LEO, paulsby. However, if you're familiar with the findings of citizen police review boards, you may be aware that citizen review boards have frequently been found to be more accepting of LEOs' controversial actions than internal police investigations are. This is my personal opinion, and not intended to assert what the regs are.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

42. Look at the photo

the car was pinned against a fence and not going anywhere. It seems difficult at best, to justify the actions of the officer.

[maglatinavi]

29. Euro

You are frigging wrong... the cop could have aimed differently to scare the man and or he and the support cop could have run over and shoot warning shots without aiming at the driver... or, shoot him aiming at the arms and or hands without killing him ...His saying "Enogh is enough" is the critical point ... he thought of himself as an almighty being who was pissed of, not an officer of law and order ... he should be charged with homicide... the supporter with assisted homicide...:grr: :grr: :grr: I support the law enforcement people, but detest the abusers and assassins within them ... and the system that condones it to happen :spank:

[treestar]

55. If you were on the jury, presumably you'd listen to all of the evidence first

The other police officers there didn't think it was necessary. Meade used his car to block the driver in. The car was idling. It really depends on what the evidence is.

[Mithreal]

25. This is the kind of thing I would expect to occur in Baghdad.

And I don't mean drunk driving, I mean, extreme use of force.

[maglatinavi]

30. Mithreal

Agree!!! But this is an "occult disease" in our system ... how many times does this happen ...? what about the teen ager tasered to death who kept telling the assassin cop "I am your friend"? I have to stop, I am getting thatychardia just thinking about it...:cry: :cry: :cry: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Mithreal]

34. I keep calling my reps for a strict national standard on the use of deadly force.

Anyone else out there listening, please call your Representatives. We can save lives and end so much needless suffering.

[Vidar]

35. Eight shots into an unarmed man isn't manslaughter.

[Mithreal]

36. Truth

[sendero]

41. Why is this manslaughter..

... and not murder?

[conspirator]

52. This one of the few cases where a taser would be suitable nt

[treestar]

56. Apparently the taser didn't affect this guy very much

He asked the officer why he gave him an electric shock, and then went on to try to drive his car away over a cement curb.