Home Depot Holy War (Florida man Fired for wearing God pin at hardware store)

[sabra]

Source: NBC Miami

Florida man Fired for wearing God pin at hardware store

Trevor Keezer said he wasn't on a crusade, he was just wearing a button to work.

The Okeechobee man says his love of God and country got him fired from his Home Depot job, after he wore an American Flag pin on his orange apron that read "One nation, under God...Indivisible."

Though Keezer, 20, wore the pin to work for over a year and a half, he said the button brouhaha didn't begin until he brought a bible to work to read during lunch breaks.

"That's when I was told it had to come off, or I would be sent home. So they sent me home for six straight days without pay. And then today they terminated me," Keezer told WPTV late last week. "It never crossed my mind to take off the button because I'm standing for something that's bigger than I am. They kept telling me the severity of what you're doing and I just let God be in control and went with His plan."

Keezer, a cashier, said he was wearing the pin to support the troops, including his older brother Steven, who is heading to Iraq in December for his second tour, while also expressing his Christian faith.

Read more: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Home-Depot-Holy-War-65982167.html

[T Wolf]

1. Asshole fundie deserves to lose his job. Boss makes the rules, morAn. nt

[CBGLuthier]

4. on the other hand, why is he an asshole to you?

Just curious. What about this article tells you this man is an asshole?

[ejbr]

20. +1 from an agnostic n/t

[ElboRuum]

23. He gets sent home 6 times and then is fired...

...and has the nerve to sound indignant.

[bc3000]

25. He is an asshole because he is complaining as if someone else is at fault

He chose to be fired for wearing a pin. Now he should suck it up and find a job that will let him wear his pin if it's that important to him.

[Posteritatis]

47. Wonder how this site'd react if the pin was something politically acceptable to DUers. (nt)

[Mudoria]

73. Then it would be an entirely different attitude..

[DemBones DemBones]

79. Like a Muslim wearing the hijab and

praying on her lunch break. Everyone here would support her freedom of religion but not a Christian's.

[Zhade]

127. Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhh I'm bein persecuted!

Such ridiculous bullshit.

[Occulus]

89. Depends on the employer.

Do they have a company policy of "no pins or decorations on the uniform"?

I know I can't wear political pins or symbols during a campaign, and I'm also limited to one bumper sticker. I also can't advocate for the election of any particular political candidate while on the property, and depending on the context off the property.

[jmowreader]

166. No, not really...

DU's token former HD employee checking in:

I have a VERY hard time buying that this man was fired for wearing that pin. I've seen lots of overt expressions of faith on people's aprons, shirts and other garb. Moreover, no one would complain--especially in Florida, where Christianity is strong--about him reading the Bible on his lunch break. Hell, at my old store if he would have pulled out his Bible he probably would have found himself in an impromptu Bible discussion group. Lots of Christians work for that company, which goes without saying because they have over 300,000 associates and about three-fourths of the American public is at least vestigially Christian.

Off the top of my head, I'd say he was either disrespectful to a customer or he decided to go to a weekend retreat without getting time off first.

[liberalhistorian]

93. Exactly, that's precisely what I was just trying

to point out in my earlier post. The hypocrisy on this thread is so thick that it would take two knives to cut it.

[ronnie624]

84. I'm wondering the same.

I lived at the foothills of the Ozarks for 19 years, and I knew many hillbilly fundamentalists. Some of them I considered my friends, and they were among the kindest most generous people I've ever known. I would never dream of denying them their simple expressions of religion or patriotism.

That being said, there are times when I can't help but find belief in gods and demons and such to be one of the more bizarre aspects of human behavior.

[Skittles]

87. because

he thinks that because he has to follow the rules others hate God and America - hello: ASSHOLE

[SemiCharmedQuark]

145. Because he claims he was standing up for God, unafraid of the consequences

And then when the consequences happen, he sues.

[CBGLuthier]

150. Where in this article does it say he is sueing anybody?

I just re-read it. Can you find for me the part that mentions a lawsuit?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

157. It's in another article about this...HERE:

"Keezer's lawyer, Kara Skorupa, said she planned to sue the Atlanta-based company. "

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_13660703

[CBGLuthier]

158. which explains nothing

He was called an asshole within seconds of this OP.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

146. +1 from an atheist n/t

[marshall]

65. I wonder how similar cases are treated at this store

Are rainbow flag pins allowed? NHS? Is there a ban on all jewelry?

[liberalhistorian]

92. How do you know he was a "fundie" just because he wore

a religious pin? I'm a Christian and will often wear pins or buttons expressing myself and I'm certainly no "fundie." As long as he's not shoving his beliefs down customers' throats or proselytizing on the job, then what's the fucking problem?

And would you say "moran, the boss makes the rules" if he were wearing a liberal political pin or something similar? Something tells me you'd be all over this boss if that were the case. Double standards are bad and wrong for our side as well.

[Bill McBlueState]

112. as usual, people confuse "fundamentalist" and "evangelical"

Regardless, nobody should be pushing his religious beliefs at work.

[liberalhistorian]

116. How is simply wearing a pin "pushing his religious beliefs?"

Unless he's trying to proselytize the customers, I don't think simply wearing a pin is pushing your beliefs.

And whenever a Muslim or other religious person is given grief at work or in general for wearing the symbols or clothing of their religion, this place immediately jumps to their defense. But let it be a Christian and the double standard is quite obvious.

[TrogL]

133. Wearing a Christian pin is proselytizing

Otherwise, why bother wearing it.

In a store, I will go out of my way to avoid a cross-wearing employee. I'm tired of being ambushed. I just want to buy my hammer and go bang nails.

[Zhade]

128. Evangalism is a fundamental aspect of being a christian.

Their mythology clearly calls for them to try to "save" people (from rationality, I suppose).

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

102. *sigh*

So he's an asshole for wearing a pin to work for a year and a half with nobody saying anything until he brought his bible to read during his own personal lunch hour? No proselytizing is mentioned in the article, so just who's the asshole here?

[CBGLuthier]

2. Maybe HIS plan is for him to find another job

Sounds like god does not want him working there.

[mac56]

3. ding ding ding we have a winnah!

:applause:

[mitchum]

7. Nicely done

[Narkos]

5. Amazing given that HD is owned by a radical Repug. n/t

[ozone_man]

48. Ayn Rand was an atheist.

Republicans are atheists too. I would go so far as to suggest that any staunch Republican cannot be a follower of Jesus' moral principles, which are essentially socialist.

[Narkos]

66. True, but cultural conservatives, of which the Pugs

are beholden to, don't read Rand. They like libertarian economics, but it stops there. BTW, Bernie Marcus is not an atheist.

[WriteDown]

6. I imagine the reactions would be a tad different on DU if this was...

a Muslim headdress (sp?).

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

49. Who are "you people?" (nt)

[mac56]

13. Not necessarily.

It's all about reasonable workplace accommodations, worked out between employee and employer at time of hire.

[WriteDown]

16. I am just referring to the recent thread about France and muslim headdress.

This guy sounds like he was over-the-top, but not sure why the vehemence toward Christianity as opposed to some of the other choice religions.

[SoCalNative]

18. Not to worry

some of us detest all religions equally.

[kristopher]

19. Perhaps because here

Perhaps because here, in the United States, we have to cope with an American Taliban that sports a cross, not a crescent. No other "choice religions" seem to spawn such insanity so not sure what that part of your post means.

[leftynyc]

114. What fucking nonsense

I'm no fan of the fundies but I don't see them hanging gays from cranes and beating (or outright killing) women who show some ankle. Calling them the taliban is nothing but bullshit. You don't think rioting because of a cartoon is insanity?

[TrogL]

134. No, they simply kill them in back alleys or rape them outside schools

[spoony]

148. What?

Care to explain what the hell you're talking about?

[leftynyc]

151. Really?

The taliban was the GOVERNMENT of Afghanistan...the gays getting killed in Iran are being hanged by the GOVERNMENT. The assholes beating women who aren't covered properly are GOVERNMENT employees. Are you understanding the difference yet? Or are you still going to push that moronic comparison?

[mitchum]

14. That would depend if the headress was emblazoned with the motto "One Nation Under Allah"

[YOY]

30. +1.

Want to wear a Cross? Groovy. Want to wear a yarmulke? Great. Want to wear a Burka? OK.

Want to get political about it? Not good.

[jwirr]

34. Thank you because I am wondering what happened to our great

love of freedom of speech in this country? I am betting that if the man took this to the SCOTUS he would win. It is a form of speech just like a peace sign necklaces used to be. Think of all the jewelry that is made with various religious and other symbols. We wear them everywhere.

Now if he was preaching his ideas on the job I think that is different because he is not doing the job he was hired for. For that he should be fired.

I dislike fundies as much as the next DUer but what are we going to attach next? Bumper stickers? Wedding rings? Yes, Muslim scarves - we are not France? Headings on business letters? There are so many ways that we express ourselves that it would be worse that the PC police.

[Tesha]

40. You have no freedom of speech in your workplace.

Home Depot can control the uniform they wan their employees to wear
and, apparently, an acceptable uniform *DOESN'T* include a button meant
to provoke debate and bad feelings on at least the part of some customers.

Sorry...

Tesha

[ldf]

75. "we are not france"...?

your are implying that being like france is an insult?

:shrug:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

147. He works for a private company

where freedom of speech is more of a slippery slope. Home Depot tried to give him another button to wear but he refused. This may have nothing to do with his freedom of religious expression and have everything to do with what you are allowed to wear as part of your uniform.

[bc3000]

31. That's a completely different scenario

Now, if one of these fundie churches interprets the Bible to say that all members must always wear their God pin, then you might have a real comparison.

There's a difference between dress required by the religion, eg a yamaka, and wearing a hat, pin, or t-shirt that says "Hey Everybody, I'm a <insert religion here>".

[YOY]

33. There's a little more than that.

Once you start getting political about it? Not good.

[Lagomorph]

58. I don't see too many Muslims around here...

but I've never been angry about the women who wear burkas or the Seihks with their turbans and knives, nor the christian crosses, et al. After living through the 60's & 70's and walking through airports full of mooching monks, I find all this censorship and religious oppression kinda disgusting. I was told by the police and government officials to shut up and mind my own damn business and now I expect people to do the same.

[mrbarber]

70. Actually, there was a story awhile back about a woman who got fired..

From Abercombie and Fitch for wearing a Muslim headdress.

The sentiment was the same. Leave your faith at home, it's not up to employers to accommodate you.

[proteus_lives]

76. You hit it on the nose.

There would be 100 posts demanding the boycott of Home depot.

Don't stress, DU without hypocrisy would be like eggs without bacon.

[ronnie624]

86. What about your own reaction?

Your claim that DU is some sort of monolith with a predictable opinion on all issues is nonsensical.

There are a number of posters - myself included - who would allow him to wear his silly little pin if we actually owned Home Depot. But the real owners of Home Depot are entitled to establish their own policies in regard to the company's employee dress code.

[KakistocracyHater]

140. I've never seen support for that here, I have seen comments that stated

such a woman should not be forced or coerced into wearing Muslim "headdresses". Pleaase provide a link to any DU thread that supports your claims.

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. He refused to wear the company buttons

And insisted going on with his overt display of religionism despite company rules against that. I'd have just fired him outright since it's clear he has no sense. Surely there's a nice handicapped person waiting in the wings looking to replace the man anyway.

[msanthrope]

56. Refusing to wear flair will get you fired every time. n/t

[Tim01]

165. One button is not enough flair to express yourself. You do want to express yourself? nt

[get the red out]

9. I wonder...

I wonder if "reading the Bible at lunch" was really screaming the Bible at his co-workers while they were trying to eat? Can't help but wonder.

[mitchum]

17. Even if he was just reading the bible at lunch...

he was probably making a real mess in the breakroom. Y'know, between the chewing and his lips moving as he was reading...

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

83. Well, I spell "clever" as c-l-e-v-e-r...

but you can spell it P-O-S if you care to.
Thanks, brother!

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spazito]

38. That's where my thoughts went as well...

Was he attempting to hold a bible reading session in the lunch room by reading the bible aloud and refusing to stop doing so when asked? Mere speculation on my part but, given he raises the lunch time bible reading as the 'final straw', it strikes me as possible for sure.

[krabigirl]

10. Hmmm..tough one. I think heshould be able to wear it, but not evangelize to others.

He should be able to wear his pin and read his Bible, if he leaves other people alone about their beliefs. That's the problem, though. Most fundies are "called" to evangelize, which makes this a problem at work.

I wouldn't like to be fired because I brought a book about Buddhism to read at work at lunch, or if I wore a peace pin. sigh.

[mac56]

12. That's why I bet there is more to the story

than we know.

[ElboRuum]

22. The question is...

If your boss pulls out the employee handbook and points to the section where it said that your peace pin is a violation of the dress code, asks you to take it off, and you refuse, would you not expect some sort of disciplinary action to be taken?

[krabigirl]

88. Of course, but I think it's silly.

[Dappleganger]

98. Not if I'd been allowed to wear that pin for over a year and a half already.

Why does it all of a sudden break the rules after that much time, except for religious discrimination when a bible is read on a person's lunch hour?
BTW, no proselytizing is mentioned in the article (and yes, there ARE fundies who don't try to do that).

[ElboRuum]

107. Well, I've never credited today's media with thoroughness.

Besides, the way the media is owned these days, I wouldn't be surprised if that was edited out because it might cast a negative light on his actions.

Tinfoil hats... there are never enough. That's why I always buy Reynolds Wrap in 200ft quantities.

Anyhoo.

What probably happened is this:

1. He began to get preachy with his co-workers.
2. Complaints were lodged.
3. Manager uses the company policy of no personal buttons as a convenient method of disciplinary action. Note, whether your boss lets you get away with small dress code infractions or not is immaterial... so long as there is pen to paper saying you agreed to the terms and conditions of your employment, that courtesy you are being afforded is not a right. If it proves deleterious to the workplace, even in the longer term, it can still be enforced.

Short answer, up to a certain point, this minor dress code infraction bothered no one and so was overlooked, but some event that we don't know about from the article may have happened to which the button was a convenient avenue of discipline.

[raccoon]

111. Good thinking! You may very well be right. nt

[HelenWheels]

36. If the boss says no pin

then take it off.

[Epiphany4z]

11. suspects there may be more to the story

will wait and see...isn't it almost time for the put christ back in christmas campaigns?

[Taverner]

124. Exactly my guess is he was a bible thumper on a convert or die mission

[LiberalFighter]

15. I guess the kid thinks he has rights as an employee. And religion trumps employer rights.

They did offer a selection of pins for him to wear in support of the troops. He didn't like the selection because none of them had god included with country. What a immature ding-wad.

Home Depot also has a policy of not permitting non-company buttons. They have that right. Sometimes we don't like it but it is their right.

The kid said, "I want to be a voice for the rest of the Christians and for the citizens of this country to stand up for the country."

My response to that... he shouldn't had gone to work for Home Depot or any company. Instead, he should had joined the ministry or military.

[rocktivity]

21. Unless he was reading his bible ALOUD on company property during his lunch breaks

I can't imagine why Home Depot would care. And if his button was in violation of the company dress code, he should have been told so a year and a half ago.

I suspect there's more to this story than we're being told.

:shrug:
rocktivity

[SemperEadem]

50. I'll bet he was told the day he went to his employee orientation

at the company where I work, I was told on the first day of orientation what the dress code was and that if I didn't adhere to it, I would be sent home without pay. When I signed on the dotted line to work here in exchange for a paycheck from them was when I agreed to abide by their rules.

Being sent home 6 times was direct insubordination, and Home Depot had a right to terminate his employment. He knew what the rules were and he chose to violate them to get some victimization publicity and be on fux noose tonight--just in time for the holiday season and the fake war on xmas.

[ngant17]

91. this is standard operation procedure in business

especially where you are a cashier and you have to deal directly with the public as part of your job. Probably you could have gotten away with it if you were mostly a truck driver or you worked away from public scrutiny most of the time.

He who owns the gold make the rules - the golden rule.

I don't have a problem with the rightwing HomeDepot defended their business policy any more than I would have an issue with the same problem occuring at Lowes where I tend to shop more often (more Democrat friendly).

I would like to see a union in the building supply industry and workplace to represent people in his situation but even moreso for the politically-liberal Lowes in Florida, but this would be asking too much for a right-to-work state.

[caraher]

24. Poor guy...

just trying to express himself with a little "flair:"



Maybe the employer has a right to dictate this, but seriously, just let the guy wear it. Next thing we'll all hear about religious oppression in "Obama's America" from the usual suspects, even though it's between this guy and Home Depot.

[jeff47]

28. Problem is this is literally a slippery slope

Problem is if Home Depot lets this guy wear his pin, then they have to let all the other employees wear their pins. And having worked at Home Depot, I can assure you that many employees would chose to wear pins that weren't in the best interest of Home Depot's corporate office.

Things like pentagrams, and "buy union". Both equally despicable to the suits.

[hack89]

63. They let him wear it for 18 months. nt

[GOPNotForMe]

64. That's still a metaphoric slippery slope...

This is a literal one.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-eYZYh2mvh8/Sj2JAzgBK2I/AAAAAAAABBc/k93uVHo0i0A/s320/slippery+slope.jpg

:)

Bottom line: Florida is an at-will employment state, so you can be fired for any reason without warning and you are shit outta luck. Crappy law, and I, as an agnostic-leaning-toward-atheist, still feel for the guy.

[8 track mind]

45. I loves me some office space! n/t

[SacredCow]

26. The employer sets the rules- logical or not.....

Anybody recall the woman (maybe Muslim? I don't remember the details) who was irate because she got fired from some grocery store for refusing to scan or otherwise handle pork products? It's pretty fair to say that a checker for a grocery store will, at some point, have to scan some bacon. Therefore, if touching the pack of Hormel was a problem for her- then she should have never applied for the job in the first place.

This scenario isn't so clear and obvious, but the simple fact is that an employer can make whatever rules they want (on the fly, even, so his claim of having worn the button for a year prior is irrelevant).

What's most funny about this is how the Fundies are all for (currently, or sometime in the past) EVERY single kind of discrimination EXCEPT when it comes to their religion.

[YOY]

27. RW Corporation.

Let the RW Corporation duke it out with "Christians" who need to advertise their faith and their politics as loudly as possible.

[BlueJazz]

29. I'm an Atheist and it wouldn't bother me what he wore to work...just as long..

...as he didn't try to "Save" anybody.

[Garbo 2004]

32. Likely there's more to the story that isn't discussed in the article. The article features

primarily what the employee claims, which may or may not be accurate. Likely the employer's reps may not want to say much publicly for legal reasons.

[Sinti]

35. I wonder if they let other people wear non-work related pins, or bring books to read at lunch.

They say they don't, but what they say and what they do are not always the same thing. I also wonder if the guy wasn't proselytizing - a lot of Christians don't understand why they can't try to force conversions wherever they go. No matter how often you say, no, I'm not a Christian, they fear for your soul and try to "save" you - I feel the need to save them also from the death cult so I understand and often try to "save" them right back.

OTOH, if others are allowed to wear extra-corporate decorations on their uniforms he'll have a case and I, for one, would support his right to free expression if he's being singled out - it's the best way to protect everyone's right to free expression.

[dugaresa]

37. i remember working with a "promise keeper", who would conduct meetings at lunch

around lunch time, all these guys who were friendly with him would scurry for cover because they were all such big babies and didn't want to tell him. "NO, we don't want to go to your stupid lunch meeting"

Now the company didn't care because our operation was not public, but he drove all the other folks nuts.

I remember one guy, who was actually a friend of his, hiding behind my door once to avoid detection. The Promise Keeper guy eventually figured out that people wanted to chit chat and have lunch and not have a sermon every day.

[appleannie1]

60. His name wasn't Chuck by any chance?

[beachmom]

39. There may be more to the story, methinks. A co-worker of mine wore "Jesus loves you" pins

and nobody batted an eye. During the Clinton years.

[southernyankeebelle]

41. I think the company did the right thing because there are people who

don't believe in god. What next he brings his bible and then he wants to start preaching to people on his and their lunch hour holding bible studies. Who next a Jew, a Muslim, a Catholic, a Budist and on and on. The problem christians forget there are other religions and they will want the same thing. This is a place of business. Its nice the man is a christian but leave it in your car, home or church and don't bring it to a business. I am a believer. I remember one time I was working on a military base in a recruiting office. My boss walked by my desk and saw a Guidepost on my desk and he told the SGT to tell me to put it away that it didn't have a place in the office. I did. Guess what I lived and moved on as soon as I could.

[Hepburn]

42. If NO pins are allowed at the job....

...then his pin is not an exception to the rule.

From the article:

"Home Depot told WPTV that the company doesn't allow non-company buttons, but that it has a proud history of supporting the military and has its own buttons for employees to wear."

~~Ibid.~~

So my Wiccan pentacle pin would be outlawed at work just the same and so would my secular scottie pins. I see no problem.

[twitomy]

43. Sounds like HD needs a Union

to fight against the obvious intolerance.

[xc8mip]

44. clear case of religious discrimination

"he wore an American Flag pin on his orange apron that read "One nation, under God...Indivisible."

I think this is offensive only for some sort of anti-American element .If his job as casher was OK court for sure will reward some serious money

[provis99]

53. dead wrong. It is clearly NOT religious discrimination.

The company policy is no pins except for what the company gives you for company related business. Meaning you can't wear any of your own pins, no matter what they say. It would only be religious discrimination if the company had said, all religious pins are allowed, except for certain religions.

[xc8mip]

59. Typical example of discrimination.

guy was doing his job as casher properly ,I don't see how small dime size pin could possibly interrupt with that .As for what HD says ....they still live in America

[Abq_Sarah]

62. When he is on company time

He needs to adhere to company rules. HD isn't paying him to advertise his thoughts and feelings. He's free to do that the other 128 hours a week.

[TommyO]

104. HD can dictate what their public-facing staff can wear

They can dictate the shoes, pants, shirt, smock, and even the pins that their cashiers can wear.

[Dappleganger]

97. Did you even read the article??

He wore the pin for over a year and a half and nobody said a word until he brought a bible to read during his own personal lunch time. That's definitely religious discrimination.

[Zhade]

71. Completely wrong, of course. This is the OPPOSITE of discrimination.

Religious people don't get a pass just because they're religious. The rules are clear.

[Dappleganger]

99. Read the article again.

He was allowed to wear that pin for over a year and a half and nobody breathed a word until he brought his bible to read during his own lunch time.
Yes, that's religious discrimination.

[ElboRuum]

108. Correlation is not causation.

Just sayin'.

[TommyO]

103. So, it is anti-American to not want somebody else's religion shoved in our face?

[Raster]

164. No where NEAR religious discrimination. It is a clear case, however,

of a religious zealot assuming incorrectly that the rules don't apply to them because of their religious beliefs.

Fire his ass.

[dmr]

46. I don't fault Home Depot

From the article:

Home Depot told WPTV that the company doesn't allow non-company buttons, but that it has a proud history of supporting the military and has its own buttons for employees to wear.

Keezer said those buttons weren't to his liking.

"You can't have country without God," Keezer said. "Every pin they showed me had no 'God' on it or anything."

I'm an old lady, all the jobs I've had through the years my employer dictated how I presented myself to the public or work area. Shoot, I remember that we couldn't wear slacks to high school/work. It was dress or skirt.

This young man was the face of Home Depot. If wearing that pin (and none of us has seen it), was meaningful to him, he could have easily pinned it to his t-shirt, or somewhere out of sight while on the job.

The store has pins employees can wear to honor those in the service.

I could be wrong, but seeing that he is only 20, most likely he is living with his parents, and doesn't have the worry about the never-ending household & grocery bills. It's easy to stand on self-principals when you have less responsibilities in the world.

I've a 20 year old son, I'd tell him either abide by his employer or find another job - but to find the next job first.

[ozone_man]

51. "wearing the pin to support the troops"

Supports my general belief that this is a crusade; part economic, part religious warfare. God and capitalism going hand in hand since the crusades.

[provis99]

54. but remember why Robbie Knieval said he jumps over cars on a motorcyle.

He does it to support the troops. Seriously.

[ozone_man]

69. Good point.

I may have overstepped my line of reasoning ;) ... People can do just about anything to support the troops. It is a knee jerk reaction (Crusade analogy) of mine, when God and Iraq war/support of troops are connected. I think even GWB said in an interview that God told him to invade Iraq.

[Gedankenaustausch]

52. in this country you're guaranteed a right to free speech and freedom to worship

but, this, like all rights granted to us, comes with a price. I think it sucks for the guy, but there is a price for freedom of expression. I think it sucks for the Home Depot manager to make this decision as well. But, this is they way it is supposed to work.

No one said your right to freedom of expression would be easy, they just simply said you have the right.

[dysfunctional press]

125. not in the workplace.

your freedoms are for your own time.

[Gedankenaustausch]

135. no

you have the right, but your employer also has the right to fire you for it. But there is no restriction of your rights in the workplace. It is however policed, if you will, by the possible punishment from the company, but you have the right to express whenever/wherever. It's just expressor beware if you will.

[dysfunctional press]

137. ...

:eyes:

since you can be fired by your employer for doing so, you obviously have NO GUARANTEE of free speech in the workplace.

[Gedankenaustausch]

139. we differ slightly

look I think we both agree on the same thing, just disagree slightly on semantic things.

[dysfunctional press]

142. if someone were an usher in a crowded theatre...

(i'll bet you know where this is going)

would they have the right to scream "FIRE!"? (assuming there is no fire).

i understand what you're saying- but the fact is- if you DID have a guarantee of 'free speech' in the workplace- it would mean that you couldn't be fired for exercising it.

most workplaces won't let you bring guns in, either.

and what the amendment actually says is that "congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech"...it doesn't expressly say that free speech is guaranteed everywhere at all times.

but laws abridging speech DO exist. libel, for instance.

[KT2000]

55. when I see a fish

in a yellow pages ad or on a business' signs, I try not to do business with them.
I have learned in my community that they will usually charge me more than other businesses, those that do not sport the fish sign.
I imagine they give preferential rates to their fellow fish people and must make it up on those who are not fish people. This is a sentiment shared by many in this rural area.

Symbols are meant to elicit responses - the kid should do his eliciting on his own time - not time paid for by Home Depot.

[spoony]

95. Any other groups you avoid dealing with en masse?

I've found that usually if a person dismisses one group there are others.

[KT2000]

123. No

the fish is a symbol expressing that the person or business belongs to a clique. It is to inform others in that clique.

[buffalowings]

57. Lowes

Did someone say he used to work for Lowes? Or is it that Lowes is now going to hire him? Home Depot used the Bible belt and spanked him all the way to Lowes. It's hell out there!

[appleannie1]

61. Bet his lunch observances included saying a blessing over everyone's food.

Have worked in the public. Most stores do not want you wearing things like that pin because they cater to everyone, not just Christians and therefore do not want to appear as if they favor one religion over another. Besides, he was warned and he chose to ignore the warning. So he had to pay the price. My feeling after reading the last paragraph is that he is on a crusade and wanted them to fire him to gain notoriety for himself.

[Gman]

67. Too many people on both sides, left and right don't understand

that you can't eat or pay bills with principles.

[Psephos]

159. But you can sleep. n/t

[baldguy]

68. My boss have no business judging My personal religious beliefs.

If they don't interfere with my job, he's got nothing to say about it.

[Zhade]

72. But if the employee IS violating long-standing policy, as this one was, HE'S in the wrong.

NT!

[baldguy]

74. And if the policy is discriminatory?

Just because a policy is long-standing doesn't automatically grant fairness, correctness or legality to it.

[Zhade]

80. Irrelevant, since this ISN'T discriminatory. It's not like other religious iconography is allowed.

You're wrong on this.

[baldguy]

106. So, discrimination is OK if you aren't picky about who you discriminate against?

Sorry, but it isn't. There's no reason why, as a prerequisite of employment, that anyone should be forced to deny any aspect of their faith if it doesn't interfere with their job, and adopt someone else's idea of what is acceptable.

That's what religious freedom is all about.

A Mormon can wear his magic underwear, a Jew can wear his yarmulke, a Christian can wear a cross, etc etc. These things don't effect his ability to do the job - move stock, assist customers, & run a cash register.

[dflprincess]

120. A yarmulke and "magic underwear" are different than a pin or a cross

those items are required wear for some people (and, of course, no one sees the underwear). Buttons and jewelry are not required wear.

I'll bet what we're not hearing is that he began to be obnoxious in the breakroom when he started bringing his Bible in. Religious freedom gives you the right to worship as you choose, it does not give you the right to try and force your beliefs on others.

[baldguy]

121. Who are you to say what is required and what isn't?

And since there's no indication in the article that Mr Keezer was lying when he said he wasn't engaged in proselytization, there's no basis for you to say he was.

[dflprincess]

122. I am not aware of any main stream denomination that requires

a person to wear a cross or a crucifix (or a button especially one like this guy was wearing) at all times the way an Orthodox Jew is expected to wear a yarmulke or a Morman wears a garment (I believe that is the correct name for "magic underwear"). I was raised Catholic and in grade school we were encouraged to always wear a scapula (I don't know anyone who did after the first week they got one) but that was under our clothes as well, there were no rules about always displaying a religious symbol.

No, there is nothing that says the guy was prostelytizing and I did make it clear I was speculating. Home Depot, I suppose for legal reasons, is staying fairly quiet I just can't quite imagine why they'd fire the guy for reading the Bible to himself at lunch time. If they did, then he may have a case, but if he was inflicting others with his beliefs, he should have been fired.

[Zhade]

129. This guy is not entitled to a job at HD. He knew the rules when he took it.

Once again, you're completely wrong about this. He has every right to wear his pin -- at another job that allows it.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

144. If it is written in the employee handbook that you aren't allowed to wear X Y or Z he does.

[proteus_lives]

78. Spewing venom at the religious.

Business as usual on DU.

[Zhade]

81. Come down off the cross, your alleged lord and savior needs that spot.

Always whining about persecution when in fact there is none -- how very christian of you.

[proteus_lives]

82. Who said I was a Christian?

I was just remarking on a trend that often occurs on this site.

And what's with venom from you? I never said anything about persecution, I just don't understand the spite and bile. I just think that that posters like you are very two-faced sometimes.

Feel free to disagree.

[Zhade]

130. Two-faced my ASS. I'd make the same argument regardless of the religion.

And I didn't call you a christian. Try reading comprehension next time.

[proteus_lives]

141. ASS.

You're on the right track there.

Admitting it is the first step.

[Zhade]

154. LOL, that's the best you've got? Pathetic.

NT!

[MidwestTransplant]

85. That Indivisible talk will get him hurt in Texas and SC. Anyway I bet Freeper/Faux are FREAKING

about this.

[spoony]

94. I love the smell of big-tent tolerance in the morning.

Lol.

[Zhade]

131. Yeah, enforcing the rules equally suuuuuuure is intolerant.

LOL is right.

[Raster]

160. I'm a Satanist. I worship the Lord of Light, the Fallen One. May I wear my pin to work?

I wear it in support of the troops.

I would also like to read my Satanic Bible on my lunchbreak in the lunchroom. Will that be permitted?

[Dappleganger]

96. The company allowed him to wear the pin for over a year and a half!

Then when he brought a bible to read on his own lunch time, he was then told to remove the pin or go home.

I sense a nice lawsuit coming Home Depot's way which will be lost. If the pin was truly unacceptable then it would have been an issue for them from day one. I think he's being religiously discriminated against.

If someone brought a Koran to read during lunch that's their business as long as they aren't proselytizing (and that issue wasn't raised in the article). We need to remember the Constitution is for ALL of us, not just SOME of us.

[TommyO]

105. Perhaps it was a customer complaint that made this an issue

You don't know the full story, so you assume it's a case of religious discrimination.

[apnu]

110. Yeah, this wouldn't be an issue if the company enforced its own policies. They didn't.

They deserve to get the lawsuit that's coming their way, but then since the employee was in violation of the company's dress code he should have been fired long ago.

Frankly, both he and the company are getting what they deserve.

[Nihil]

115. Shows that they were being more than tolerant then doesn't it?

If the "wearing it for 18 months" claim is accurate then all it proves
is that Home Depot have already been extremely tolerant to someone who
is deliberately and knowingly breaking the company rules.

Was it the same supervisor for all of that time?

Did he change positions (e.g., from warehouse/shelf-stacker to cash-desk)?

There are a whole host of totally justifiable reasons for Home Depot
to act in the way that they did without any bullshit about "religious
discrimination".

> Then when he brought a bible to read on his own lunch time, he was then
> told to remove the pin or go home.

And the rest? As in "he was told six times to remove the pin or go home" ...

Anyone with a brain can recognise that repeatedly & deliberately disobeying
the company rules (regardless of how sensible, reasonable or flexible they
are) is a move which ends in dismissal.

Personally, I think that giving him six chances showed more tolerance than
he deserved.

[FlaGranny]

100. I wouldn't be surprised

if he was preaching to the customers in line. I find it hard to believe he would be fired for wearing the pin or reading a bible during lunch break.

[apnu]

109. This is fucked up from top to bottom.

If the company has a policy that states a certain dress code (including pins) he has to follow along with it, however the company wasn't enforcing its own policy by letting him wear his own pins and refusing to wear other buttons or pins the company provided and required him to wear. So both the fundie and the local company are hypocrites.

Secondly, the fundie is full of crap, an orange ribbon isn't a "support our troops thing" that's a yellow ribbon, its been that way for longer than he's been alive. So he wasn't supporting the troops as he says with the pin, he's going out of his way to promote religious interaction with our government. The guy's a liar, intentional or not, he's still a liar.

An finally, the manager of that store is should be hug up by his own tie-wraps for a good day by punishing someone who's reading a book, on break, away from the customers. Unless the company has a policy of no book reading in the break room, they fired him on false grounds.

The fundie should never have been allowed to wear that pin, he should have been warned and written up long before this for failure to follow the company's dress code. And then fired for continued violation. This issue would never have come up.

And the store should be sued within an inch of its life for such gross double standards and worker's rights violations.

They're both guilty of fraud.

[Coventina]

113. At the HD near me, there's a guy who works there (in paint)

who's name is apparently "God's Power", because his apron reads: Hello, my name is: God's Power.

So, I suppose Home Depot should not have hired him? Since his name is religious?

:shrug:

[NoodleyAppendage]

117. Maybe your gOD will pay the bills for you...dumbass. n/t

J

[Doctor_J]

118. This sounds pretty fishy

Sounds like a bit of BS that Fox and Hate Radio will spread for a couple days, then it will turn out to be a bunch of crap. Don't forget, we're approaching the War On Christmas season.

[tammywammy]

119. If the article is accurate

HD gave consent when they allowed him to wear the pin for 18 months without a warning. Also, he's allowed to read whatever the hell he wants to during lunch. Unless it comes out that he was preaching, so far HD looks at fault in this.

[dysfunctional press]

126. god's plan was for him to get a different job.

why is he second-guessing god?

[spoony]

132. Few hours late for that one.

Please try a more original snark.

[zonkers]

136. Whats wrong with showing a little flair?

[The Straight Story]

138. Good - he might have scared some weak minded person and made them run screaming

Seeing such a display of one's beliefs can seriously harm others.

[Erebus67]

143. The employer can set the rules for attire at work., end of argument.

An American Flag pin with "One Nation Under God" on it I hardly see as a religious symbol. It's the flag of the country and a quote from the Pledge of Allegiance. My father worked for Home Depot for a long time and their rules on what you can wear are very clear. Home Depot doesn't allow ANYTHING displayed on your clothing except for work related patches and pins. Employees can earn patches for different accomplishments that they can display on their aprons. Vendors are allowed to give the employees pins with the vendor's company logo and such, which can be worn on their aprons. Nothing else is allowed.

My guess would be that this guy had quite a few pins and such and the flag pin merely went unnoticed. What went on in the break room is really vague. If he was reading quietly to himself I don't see any issue. My father is a very religious person and he always some religious book with him that he reads when he has time. No one ever said boo to him about them all the years he worked there.

Regardless of all of that. The company is free dictate your attire at work up to and including requiring you wear a uniform. If you don't like that you are free to work somewhere else. It doesn't matter if it's a religious, political, personal or and other kind of symbol or statement. And as long as you are free to get a job elsewhere that perhaps will let you wear whatever you want it should remain so.

[xc8mip]

149. Naked and bended forward

would you like such dress code?

[mr_liberal]

153. It could have been one of those "one nation

UNDER GOD" pins where the under god part is much bigger than the other words too. People in the religious right like to yell that part, and that may be what the pin is suppose to symbolize.

He's very likely a christian conservative that is making a political statement with the pin, which could offend customers and lose business.

Then he brings a Bible to work as well. Sounds to me like purposely trying to cause problems.

Theres also probably more to the story where he has proselytized other employees, etc.... All we know is whats in the article. I doubt he'd be fired for just wearing a pin.

[DuaneBidoux]

152. It sounds to me like this whole thing was handled badly from all sides.

Home Depot will surely get some very bad press out of this. It is hard for me to understand why anyone who brings their Bible to work and reads on their own time should be fired.

On the other hand it doesn't sound reasonable to fire someone if you didn't want them to where their pin if you didn't even ask them to remove it.

I'm fairly sure that we are getting a small portion of this incident reported to us.

The other thing to do, of course, is ask any believer how they would feel if they had to face a clerk that had an anti-god pro-atheism button on their shirt. Mostly I think this story is a non-story, but nontheless a gift to the wingnuts.

[Zhade]

155. He wasn't fired for reading his bible.

NT!

[truebrit71]

156. 'At Will' state...too bad..now if he was in a Union then he might have stood a chance...

..as it is, not so much...

[robcon]

161. Home Depot management:... fucking assholes.

n/t

[Hekate]

162. HD apparently has a policy of "nothing personal" on the apron. That's where he went afoul of policy

But to let him wear it for 18 months (through Bush and into Obama's term) and then ding him for it was just wrong. As for reading the Bible on his personal time (lunch), that should have nothing to do with anything, and I hope it's just a coincidence.

Hekate

[lynne]

163. Say's he wore it for 1 1/2 yrs before anyone said anything -

- so the corporate policy for acceptance had been set. Unless Home Depot can come up with a documented reason for termination for a reason other than wearing this pin, they're screwed as they set the precedent by allowing him to wear it for 1 1/2 years.