Senate Panel Clears Health Bill With One G.O.P. Vote

[Merryweather]

Source: New York Times

The Senate Finance Committee voted on Tuesday to approve legislation that would reshape the American health care system and provide subsidies to help millions of people buy insurance, as Senator Olympia J. Snowe, Republican of Maine, joined all 13 Democrats on the panel in support of the landmark bill.

Democrats, including President Obama, had courted Ms. Snowe’s vote, hoping that she would break with the Republican Party leadership and provide at least a veneer of bipartisanship to the bill, which Mr. Obama has declared his top domestic priority. Ms. Snowe was a main author of the bill but she had never committed to voting for it.




Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/health/policy/14health.html?hp

---

Olympia Snowe's just killed her career with the GOP. The wingnuts will be lighting their torches and sharpening their pitchforks as we speak. What are the bets on her pulling a Specter?

[WriteDown]

1. Here comes change. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

2. But not for the better.

It's all over.

[Fearless]

4. Anything is better than nothing.

[Ms. Toad]

5. I don't agree that anything is better than nothing

But I do agree that the bill passed out of the finance committee has much needed changes to insurance regulation - and through mandatory access, premium parity, and subsidies will make health care accessible to far more people than can currently access it. It is far from perfect, but it is also far better than nothing.

[bluethruandthru]

34. We don't need to be handing out subsidies to insurance companies!

I'm all for subsidizing those who can't afford coverage...but I do NOT want those subsidies going to for profit insurance companies.
After handing over a good chunk of my paycheck each month to an insurance company...the last thing I want is a chunk of my tax dollars going to them too! If subsidies went toward a public option..that would be fine.

[Ms. Toad]

65. The bills subsidize people who can't afford coverage - not

the insurance companies.

While I would prefer the portion of the subsidy that exceeds what is needed to pay for health care end up back in the government's pocket, I would rather it end up in the insurance companies' pockets than not being available to provide health care to the people who need it most.

While I support a public option, I will oppose a bill that eliminates subsidies unless there is a public option - because it cuts off people who need access to care merely because some portion of the subsidy ends up being profit to an insurance company.

Push comes to shove, I am probably not even in favor of creating a system in which people who can afford to pay for health insurance have their choice of dozens of insurance providers, while people who can't afford it are limited to the public option.

[Oregone]

6. Careful what you wish for

An easy to please populace can be please with shit pie

[mvd]

7. I'd rather pass a good bill piece by piece than pass a bill..

that has no public option but mandates for non-employers but not employers. And without enough price controls.

[Fearless]

23. Exactly!

[mvd]

52. Thanks! I'm not for passing the Baucus bill, but..

many people could use subsidies and getting rid of pre-existing condition denials now. We could pass those easily if we need more time for a good bill.

[Fearless]

72. Agreed.

[graywarrior]

40. Like medicare and ss

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. Eloquently said!

[rhett o rick]

22. I hope you dont really mean that. A bad bill could turn the public against reform. nt

[Fearless]

24. Tell that to the millions who will now be able to afford health care...

Something is better than being dead. We will continue to work, but it must be done as others have said, piece by piece. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was Syracuse.

[rhett o rick]

30. Please, I am honestly interested in how millions will now be able to afford health care?

I dont believe that any bill with out a strong public option will do that. With out a strong public option, millions will not be able to afford health care. A weak reform bill will not save any lives. It will turn the public off on reform.

[Fearless]

78. This bill will make it possible for 20-25 million of the 45+ million who don't have insurance...

To get insurance... It does not solve the problem with overpricing of insurance or drugs. That needs to be taken up next. However you cannot honestly believe that 20-25 MILLION people who now have a chance at life if they get sick is in any way anything but a step in the right direction.

[humbled_opinion]

35. LOL

How do you know they will be able to afford it?

This piece of crap forces people to buying into something from the existing Insurance corps.... and even a PO will have a potentially substantial cost to individuals. So riddle me this Polyanna....

How do I afford to pay for something that I am not paying for now?

When does the government get to decide that having Insurance is more important that feeding my kids?

or did you forget to tell me that the government is going to mandate that my employer actually give me a raise to cover the costs of the coming mandated (taxed) insurance?

or did I miss the debate where lower income people are going to get all this handed to us for free?

Nothing and I mean nothing in this bill is acceptable to me.

[Fearless]

79. Have you read the bill?

[humbled_opinion]

84. Yes I have

and all of my issues with it are true. Mandated insurance should be a non-starter but now that our leaders have bent over the question is will they be able to get it out of there?

[Fearless]

85. Unappreciative of the sodomy joke.

[tblue]

47. A bad bill will also cost the Dems the majority.

Who among us is gonna work their butt off come next election? For this? The Dems in Congress defy us at their peril.

[Fearless]

80. I'd like to think that's true...

Historically, it never seems to happen. It's our carrot, no matter how tiny, and the majority of the base will follow it until we can find a bigger one.

[ixion]

25. not necessarily

from what I'm seeing, it's going to be worse. Mandatory insurance serves ONLY the insurance companies.

[Fearless]

26. Read the rest of the article....

It's a step in the right direction to increase subsidies. A poor living person is always better than a poor dead one.

[laughingliberal]

67. A poor living person may, indeed, be better than a poor dead one but...

few people are going to choose health insurance over shelter or food and the last premium I had finally put us in the position of making that choice.

[Fearless]

73. And a 20-25 MILLION people will no longer have to choose between

Food and health.

[katty]

36. yep, Mandatory insurance? Insurance co's doing happy dance

[Fearless]

74. It's a step.

[Fading Captain]

41. Fuck that. That mentality is stupid.

eom

[Fearless]

75. Fuck that... your mentality is stupid... Nuh-uh... Yah-huh... Etc...

:eyes:

[TankLV]

71. NO - NO IT'S NOT!!!

If THIS is the "bill" then we should all demand they vote NO!!!

[Fearless]

76. This isn't THE BILL... There is no THE BILL and never is for anything...

Social Security used to cover people on average for the last FOUR years of their lives. It wasn't nearly as expansive as it is now. It didn't give people health care either. But through years of progressive fighting we have gained these things. Very very few things happen all at once. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will health care equality/equity.

[CreekDog]

15. You are cryptic and not all that convincing

:eyes:

[demwing]

17. Wow. The sky is falling. Look at that!

wait...that's birdshit. My bad.

[rhett o rick]

32. No the sky isnt falling. It already fell. And I propose ts anyone saying "my bad". Nothing

personal. I just hate that expression.

[demwing]

51. yeah well so what

nothing personal to you either, I just have no patience for doom and gloom

[rhett o rick]

57. Touche. I have no patience for polly-annas. nt

[demwing]

68. #1 - Pessimists often mistakenly think they are realists

#2 -Just because a person doesn't join in on the open swim at the pool of the moribund doesn't make them a polly-anna.



Hey, polly-anna? Why so fucking cheerful?

[rhett o rick]

81. Sorry, polly-anna wasnt called for. But look around. Americans homeless, out of work

no health insurance. How is saying that we are in terrible shape being pessimistic? Maybe you feel that 20% unemployment should be viewed as 80% employment. And 1 million children living on the streets really means 50 million children have homes. And is it pessimistic to have doubts that we will get even a reasonable health care bill? What I've seen so far is garbage.

[demwing]

82. Don't think I've been under a rock, or in an ivory tower

Don't tell me I don't understand the health insurance crisis. I just lost a 9 year old son to cancer this year, and am 250 THOUSAND dollars in the hole.

Don't tell me I don't get the jobs crisis. I was unemployed between April and October, and underemployed now, making ABOUT HALF OF MY FORMER SALARY, and am paying rent only with the help of my rich, republican, racist aunt - whose expects me to listen to her fucking anti-Obama garbage as a courtesy for her "generosity."

and don't tell me you've given up on a health care bill that hasn't even been penned yet. It doesn't even exist, and you have quit already.

Finally, despite all the reasons I have to be depressed, do not think that I agree that "in terrible shape" means the same as "the sky has fallen." The world offers enough reason to grieve. Why invent a false doom?

[rhett o rick]

83. My greatest sympathies for the lost of your son and your financial situation.

I have not given up and wont. But I do get discouraged when it takes months and months to just try to get Congress to do what is obviously right. I agree that the final bill hasn't been penned yet, but I am not happy with what I've seen so far. We are miles away from where we should be. And the insurance industry has tens if not hundreds of billions to fight against a decent bill.

But if you can find something positive to believe in, i should be able to also. I will not give up, just get determined to fight harder.

[24601]

86. My deepest condolences on the death of your son n/t

[happygoluckytoyou]

43. SHE WINS ---- SNOWE... a republican with a heart... as rare as a bush with a brain!!!

[AusDem]

62. i thinks its all bull$hit

snowe did it to keep herself relevant in a state that doesn't support the general republican viewpoint, as well as in the debate at large.

unfortunately while people are too busy trying to woo snow for the final bill, real reform may miss out. She's kicked the "bipartisanship" bucket further down the road, where what really needed to be done was to take a $hit in that bucket, ask the republicans to hold it, and then run like hell to a public option.

stupid of dems to fall into this trap. fingers crossed that the final bill has some teeth.

AD

[EFerrari]

3. That's all right. The wing nuts have no chance of being in power again

for at least the next six years. And looks like Snowe knows that.

[TrogL]

9. What makes you think they're going to give up that easily?

When a schoolyard bully (yes, I've know plenty) feels his power slipping away, he reacts badly.

[EFerrari]

14. They won't give up, maybe ever. But they won't be in power

because they've made themselves hateful to most Americans, imho.

[april]

8. this is BS

[groundloop]

10. How's this for a possible scenario

Olympia stays with the Greedy Obstructionist Party until health-care reform has been signed into law, allowing the President to point to her "bipartisanship". Then shortly after that she announces how the Greedy Obstructionist Party no longer shares her views and she bolts.

[high density]

11. Now a real bill can start taking shape

We know the Baucus bill is shit, but passing this hurdle is a positive development to the end goal.

[debbierlus]

12. Fuck Olympia Snowe and her vote: She is against a real public option

There is no bravado for her in this vote...

There is no risk.

This is pathetic.

Headline should read: Olympia Snowe Gives Bogus Bipartisan Cover to Insurance Written Wet Dream Bill

[goclark]

13. Kick

[endless october]

16. no public option, no dice. n/t

[demwing]

18. Jesus christ on a fish

can we just get over this? the bill will have aa PO.

[Skinner]

19. I'll take her vote.

Obviously this bill ain't perfect. Far from it. But it would be a significant improvent over the status quo.

I wish it had the public option. Maybe there is still a chance in conference.

[SteppingRazor]

21. I'm not convinced this bill is a significant improvement, though.

By mandating insurance for most Americans, and making government subsidies in purchasing such insurance as low as they are in the final bill, the Baucus bill appears to be a giveaway to the insurance industry. Millions of new customers, with very few mechanisms for keeping costs down long-term, means huge profits for insurance companies and little long-term benefit to most Americans, especially those who already have health insurance.

I hope a strong public option gets into the bill either via merging with the HELP Committee's bill, or else in conference with the House. Otherwise, I worry that this bill could actually do more harm that good for the majority of Americans.

[Joe Chi Minh]

37. I think I would go without my tablets and eat more carefully, just to spite

the big corporations! Trouble is, my boycott seems to be taking a long time to take effect.

[alp227]

27. "Still a chance in conference?" I say flood the phone lines

nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. This bill worsens the situation

It's the Massachusetts plan, which forces people to buy really expensive insurance with high deductibles, and yet the premiums prevent them from buying any actual medical CARE.

I'm already in that situation myself. I have seriously considered dropping my insurance because I could have bought full health CARE with what I've paid to the damned insurance company since 2003. My deductible is so high that I would actually go bankrupt if I were hospitalized, with or without insurance.

This bill is no help at all. It is pure corporate welfare.

[Mr. Sparkle]

20. I just realized, the one time we dont need Olympia Snowe, she votes with us. n/t

[humbled_opinion]

28. This is a piece of crap.

Without a public option this bill is punishment to the American people. It will be interesting to see the progression of this bill. However, in its current state I will never support it in fact I will fight against it.

[makeanoise]

29. and big corporate health care smiles!

Thanks a lot DEMS,
you have just lost your future elections,
you have not guts, thus you will have no glory.

And big corporate health care smiles while putting more money into the pockets of OUR Representatives.
Thanks a lot, thanks for letting the American people down, no wonder Republicans call you wimps, you've earned that title....

[lovuian]

33. Be proud democrats

you reap what you sow

[fascisthunter]

38. no public option?

yet the government will force us all into private insurance? WTF!?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gatorboy]

42. You tell'em...

Insane.... Crazy guy!

[Joe the Liberal]

44. "provide subsidies to help millions of people buy insurance"

That's it? No public option? and the whole thing written by a republican too? Wow and I thought the democrats were running the show, some "reform" this is.

Let me guess this so called "landmark bill" won't even take affect until years from now right? Just watch, years after this so called "reform" is implemented we'll be back at square one all over again with millions still without health care and millions more who still can't afford it, what a joke.

I hope I'm wrong, someone talk me down.

[DutchLiberal]

46. Why did they need 'Republican support' anyway?

Did you see Republicans seeking "Democratic support" when they were in power?

No! They pushed their agenda through; and Democrats should do the same!

[jwirr]

48. The end? If I am not mistaken there are now three senate committees

that have submitted bills to the full senate. Now they have to create one bill out of the three. Do any of those three have the public option? Again I think that two of them do. The next argument is to force this committee to reconcile with the other two and keep the option in.

So we do not stop fighting we press on. Also the Obama people are going to be a part of this reconciliation between the three committees. This is no time to quit. The closer to the House bill the Senate can stay the better.

[pink-o]

53. exactly! This is not the final word, it's just what the finance committee proposes. n/t

[laughingliberal]

69. Actually, 2 Senate bills, 3 House bills nt

[wroberts189]

49. One republican vote. nt knr

[NecklyTyler]

50. We don't need Republicans to govern because we are the majority

Kick the pukes to the side, and let's get on with rebuilding our country

[JBoy]

54. Wish Snowe had voted no. Would have made Baucus look more like the shit he is.

[stlsaxman]

55. This is an Olympian Snowe Job! Thanks for NOTHIN', Max!

[GinaMaria]

56. Individual Insurance policies are more profit

for the insurance companies than group or employer based insurance. With a group, the risk is spread and cost is lowered. With an individual the risk is all on them and cost is higher. Individual markets has been the new strategy for Insurance Companies to improve profits. They would prefer employers stop covering employees. That they have a bill to mandate all of us to buy individual insurance with taxpayer subsidies... I think Insurance Company CEOs just peed a little bit from all the excitement. They no longer have to 'work' toward this new strategy. The government mandated it for them.

It's not too late to stop them, but this is going to be a bloody battle to the bitter end.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

58. One day we might get proportional representation

many parties in coalition is far more healthy than a 2 party system. I'm all for collaboration especially something important as healthcare for all.

[Geek_Girl]

59. Hopefully this bill can morph into something better.

nt

[thincaboutit]

60. Healthcare reform needs a “Parody Option.”

Check out “Healthcare Fighting (King Fu Mix)” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nc1VwJOb9Y

[bluerum]

61. Too much money for the insurance companies. That's all it is. A giveaway.

'According to an analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the Finance Committee bill over 10 years would reduce the number of uninsured Americans by 29 million.'

'It would still leave 25 million people uninsured, about one-third of them illegal immigrants.'

[StreetKnowledge]

63. Who Gives a Flying Fuck What Snowe Thinks?

If the GOP throw her out, make her sit as an independent, not caucusing with ANYONE. She's the main writer of the bill - but won't commit to voting for it? Yeah, she's trying to cover her ass nice and well, isn't she?

The Baucus Bill, complete with mandatory buying private insurance and the fucking Max Tax, is not only an absolute joke, it is a fantastic, incredible ripoff of Americans. Max, Olympia, you want to find somebody who suffered from the machinations of Insurance companies? Talk to ME. I paid $825 a month for health insurance for ten years, and when a drunk driver sucker-punched my car and resulted in me spending two days in the hospital. My bill - $21,250. How much my insurance company covered?

ZERO.

Yep, that's right, I got refused coverage. Why? Because I have a form of autism. And they knew about that because I told them that on the fucking application. But that was an excuse to not cover extensive leg injuries caused by a car accident. Nothing of what happened to me had anything to do with my (very mild) form of autism, it was a drunken driver who ran a red light in downtown Seattle. But that still was excuse to not pay. And when I considered suing them, my lawyer said that I ought to sue the hospital, which had done wonders to stop me from needing my left leg amputated, because I would get nothing out of the insurers. (That was the last time I EVER spoke to that lawyer.) I was lucky, though, I had an option. My option? Go back to Canada where I was born and spent that first eighteen years of my life.

Which is exactly what I did. My family helped pay that bill, and when they did, I quit my job, sold my condo in Seattle and moved to Vancouver, and then was transferred to Toronto, where I was born and raised. I get to see my family more out of the deal, because my brother now works in a Toronto suburb as well.

Three months ago, I needed my appendix removed. It took four days, was beautifully done and I paid absolutely nothing.

If America is to advance, if America is to truly be the best it possible can be, the fuckers, the worthless pigs, the animals of the health insurance industry who are now trying to stop people from getting better, because it will eat into their bottom lines. To those attacking the professionals, don't - these people get shit on the insurers, too, and they also have to deal with them worrying about their bottom line first. They bust their asses to get the job done, to save people's lives, and often they don't give a fuck if you can pay or not. They are our allies, because they have to put up with the same crap we do.

Having seen the differences in health insurance systems between the two nations - America's system is worse than rotten. And considering the cost of it, the fact that they are not the best nation in the world when it comes to healthcare is pretty sad. A public option is better than nothing, but what is really needed is single-payer. Put these worthless, egg-sucking, neaderthal sons of bitches out of business, or force them into another industry. And as for the Senators trying to stop healthcare reform, they must, I repeat MUST be tossed out of office - and that's after being thrown out of the party. I don't mind big tents, but Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, Mike Ross and the rest of those trying to shut down health reform MUST be expelled from the Democratic Party for this. So, our majority goes from 60 to 55. Always invoke cloture on bills, and fuck the GOP. I doubt any of them will get elected as a Republican......and if they do, or they caucus with them, they immediately make it clear whose side they are on.

The Public Option MUST pass. Otherwise, this is turning health reform into an bank for the health insurance industry. And if President Obama wants to waver on this one as he has done or force us to be "good soldiers" as Rahm Emanuel arrogantly told progressives to do, then we need to find somebody to mount a primary challenge against him in 2012. I know that will get a few "WTF?" responses. But we, us progressives, elected the man, and he has forced us to suck it up and accept him being more worried about the fuckers on the other side.

Barack, the other site is trying to get somebody to KILL YOU. We went to bat for you, raised money, knocked on doors, made sure that you could get elected. Remember "Change We can Believe In", Barack? Get off the pot, Mr. President, unless you want to lose the battle - and possibly your job and any hope we have of really having health care for all - to the people who call for you to be impeached, have a military coup against or killed. The GOP means nothing now, they hold no levers of power, except what you and Harry Reid give them. Pelosi isn't taking any shit in the house, now you need to tell Reid to get this through, OR ELSE.

You want to be re-elected, Barack? Pass real health care reform. Otherwise, us progressives are gonna get to the point, like we did with Clinton, where we are gonna stop voting for you and stop supporting you. But where some moderates would still vote for Clinton, you aren't gonna have that luxury. If we en masse decide you ahve failed us, you WILL lose Mr. President. The Republicans won't give you any ammo.

Put up or shut up. And that goes to all Democrats. Enough with the assholes who make money on people's suffering. It's time that the people put those worthless pieces of shit in their place.

[Loge23]

64. No public option = no reform.

Period. End of sentence.
How can we expect any meaningful reform of this cartel without any competition?
This bill stinks. Let's hope for some action in Congress.

[MUAD_DIB]

66. Maybe Olympia's hubby Jock McKernon, the former Dem Governor of Maine

could help to convince her to switch parties. :D

[TankLV]

70. So we will now make THIS bill more like ALL THE OTHER more LIBERAL bills, right?!!!

watch while they bring all the other COMPROMISED bills to match this MOST CONSERVATIVE and DRACONIAN bill...!!!

If we get NO "Public Option" I'm TOTALLY AGAINST THIS FUCKING SHIT PIECE LEGISLATIVE GIVEAWAY TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!

[Indy Lurker]

77. The Senate Finance Committee bill is important

because it sets the "Right" side of debate. Everything else is to the "Left" of this bill. The final bill will be somewhere in between.

It would have been truly amazing if the most conservative committee to produce a bill had the public option. This would certainly result in a bill that was much farther to the left.

[DireStrike]

87. I wish we could pass it with zero republican votes.

And preferably with blue dogs/dlc/whatever voting against it as well.

Now THAT would be a good bill.