House Votes to Expand Definition of Hate Crimes

[Divine Discontent]

Source: NYT

WASHINGTON — The House voted by a wide margin on Thursday to expand the definition of violent federal hate crimes to cover those committed because of a victim’s gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

Democrats and advocates hailed the 281-to-146 vote, which put the measure on the brink of becoming law, as the culmination of a long push to curb violent expressions of bias like the 1998 murder of Matthew Shepard, a gay Wyoming college student.

“Left unchecked, crimes of this kind threaten to ruin the very fabric of America,” said Representative Susan Davis, Democrat of California.

The hate-crimes measure was approved as part of a broad $681 billion Pentagon policy measure, a strategy that infuriated House Republicans who accused Democrats of employing a form of legislative blackmail.
<snip>

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/us/politics/09hate.html?hp

---

praying it goes through all the way

[Ian David]

1. Obama will probably sign it at the Human Rights Campaign dinner. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

2. I hope not.............

it'd better be in the rose garden! I want roses dammit!

[FreeState]

90. He wont - it wont have Senate approval by then n/t

[Divine Discontent]

3. here goes 3/4ths of the GOP congresscritters again, with their though police BS!

Boner, of course ---
the Republican leader, called it radical social policy. “The idea that we’re going to pass a law that’s going to add further charges to someone based on what they may have been thinking, I think is wrong,” he said.

Rep Todd Akin of Missouri - '“We believe this is a poison pill, poisonous enough that we refuse to be blackmailed into voting for a piece of social agenda that has no place in this bill,”.



And notice how they put it in the pentagon bill - love it! You want your billions for weapon production mass killing machine bullshit, you're passing civil rights!!!

[ThomCat]

14. We get that thought police bullshit here too, unfortunately.

x(

A whole lot of democrats think hate crime legislation creates thought crimes and are against it. It's because of friends like these in our own part that we don't have LBGT rights as a plank in our party's platform. :(

[paulsby]

84. bull

i support gay marriage.

i 100% support equal rights for gays, to include anti-discrimination laws, adoption rights, etc.

but i do not support hate crimes legislation in general.

so, if that makes me not an advocate for GLBT rights in YOUR mind, then so be it.

just remember. *i* support gay marriage. obama doesn't.

[bluestateguy]

4. Why do Republicans vote against our troops?

Disgusting.

[tomm2thumbs]

26. the GOP hates the military and hates our country- they used to say 'America, Love it or Leave it'...

... but now they just stick around and try to kill off our military make America less of a country. It is so sad what the GOP is doing to our great country. They should be ashamed. Then they should leave.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

6. It is not just about murders. There are many other hate crimes

Crimes that are committed because a person is a member of a certain group send waves of fear through those communities, and often that is the reason the crime is committed. A simple crime against a person is not a hate crime, a hate crime is a hate crime. If you want, we could throw some Christians to the lions until they get the point.

[NaturalHigh]

7. Frankly, I think that there are many here...

who would love to throw Christians to the lions. I think Christians and fat people are about the only people whom one can make fun of with impunity.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Well considering that people can be fired or evicted

simply for being gay in most of our states, I'll gladly trade a bit of joshing for the legal standing of Christians. Talk about impunity! They can walk right up and say 'we found out you are gay so you are fired.'
Not very worried about hurt feelings in that sort of context.

[ThomCat]

25. You're kidding right?

:eyes:

I'll agree with you about overweight people. But Christians? Christians are the most protected, over-privilaged group in our society. Christians don't face even a fraction of the grief that Atheists and Agnostics do. Or disabled people. Or Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered people.

What is the Christian version of "That's so gay?" or "That's retarded?" There isn't one!

I am very sick of Christians sitting at the top of the heap, looking down on everyone else, but whining constantly about not being treated well enough.

[jemelanson]

73. Maybe the response to Christians when they do something very

"un-Christian" is to look at the and with a straight face say calmly... how very christian of you.

[justiceischeap]

83. You forgot teh gays...

Christians, fat people and teh gays.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. So of course you are opposed to all laws that address crimes

in the special and related class of terrorism? That is, you say there is no terrorism, just large vandalism and murder. Why is there a special class for those crimes? Why is murder not always the same, in that many states have degrees of murder, and various circumstances that make it 'worse' such as laying in wait, kidnapping in the commission, etc. Some murders are not subject to the death penalty and some are. Why is that?

[AlienGirl]

18. Intent is always a consideration. Were you in a pre-law program, or LE track? nt

[Divine Discontent]

70. I feel for the teachers that had to deal with you in class - my God, they earned their pay!

Look, you barely functional illiterate, you get the fact that a murder should be treated as a murder - and yet, you are unfortunately ignorant in not comprehending that without specific guidance, equal justice under the law has not been rendered fairly in favor of GLBT victims time and time again, and therefore is your REASON why they need protected.

I would have demanded that you be silenced by the teacher after mere moments of listening to your blathering foolish rationale, or I would have transferred if you would have been allowed to usurp class time with such ignorance.

[TxRider]

85. But they are still crimes, as in -already- a crime

This whole "if left unchecked!" thing is bogus. We already have laws against these things.

Political grandstanding if you ask me.

[NaturalHigh]

8. "Hate crime" is a legal way of saying...

that one group matters more than another. I think it usually involves the group one party is trying to get votes from in the next election cycle.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

19. Hate crime legislation is not racist.

:eyes:

If someone hates black people, and murders black people because of it, he's threatening the entire black community. He is delivering a threat to the all of them. He is harassing all of them and delivering a threat that any of them could be next. That is what makes a hate crime different from a murder where there is only going to be one target.

I'm sorry you don't get it. That just shows a total lack of understanding on your part about prejudice and violence and how it has always been used to terrorize entire communities. Just because you don't understand, and clearly don't care, doesn't make hate crime legislation wrong. You're the one that is wrong.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

30. You said you were in a CJ program--law enforcement, or pre-law?

The curricula for each of those emphasize different aspects of the legal code.

Tucker

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

53. Did the DA explain what a "protected class" really is?

It is not, as most people think, a class of people. It is a class of characteristics.

Tucker

[ThomCat]

60. Just as important,

It would be nice if the DA explained WHY there are protected classes.

Though, no amount of explanation in the world will get through to someone who is over-privilaged who just refuses to understand or empathize with the perspective of the people in minority communities who have been terrorized.

[AlienGirl]

67. In my experience, it's not the truly over-privileged who most defend majority privilege

It is usually the precarious strivers and the almost-theres, the people who feel screwed over but can't figure out by whom, people who are afraid of losing whatever thin rind of advantage they believe themselves to have.

Tucker

[ThomCat]

69. That is true.

That is where class almost always becomes a huge issue. Poor and lower middle class white people have historically been the buffer between wealthier white people and minority communities. So bigotry tends to be strongest and most blatant in poor and lower middle class white people. :(

[ThomCat]

31. Terrorizing the entire community IS a second crime.

Historically, violence against a minority community, violence based on bigotry, was used to terrorize the entire community.

Back when the typical form of violence was lynching, for example. That wasn't just a murder. It was a way of sending a message to all black people in the area. It was a way of terrorizing all black people in the area. That is what a hate crime is. It is committing violence in order to send a message of hate to the entire community.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

56. Our legislators chose

to call a crime compounded by the second crime of community threat and harassment the greater crime of "hate crime." If you don't like the way they chose to do it, run for office (probably as a republican) and try to change the law.

Most of us understand what our legislators where thinking and why they did it this way, and we agree with this approach. If you don't, then that is your problem. It is a problem that only straight white men usually have, who have no experience or concern about prejudice. It shows.

[TxRider]

87. But that is already illegal is it not?

[TxRider]

86. He's just making the point that it's already illegal.

A murder is already illegal. Why do we need another law to make it illegal all over again.

It doesn't stop hate, it doesn't make hate illegal, all it does is label what is already criminal to be criminal under yet another law...

[Divine Discontent]

24. from "preferance" to "racisim", you are making yourself as transparent as this

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

33. Never understand what?

:(

[Divine Discontent]

39. "SOme people will never understand" - your ignorance is breathtaking!

You DO realize that people can be fired for merely being GAY??? For what they do with their partner, consensually, in their own bedroom, they can be FIRED! You don't get fired for being Christian and doing whatever sex you want, heck you can even hire prostitutes and wear diapers and still keep your senate seat! Cheat on your wife, keep your senate seat! Run off to see your mistress in South America? Keep your governor's job! If Christians are fired for being Christian, there will be hell to pay. Your arrogant anti-Gay attitudes are not welcome here - because the same should apply to Gay people. Go crawl back under the bigot-rock from whence forth you came! "Yeah, I'm foward assist, and I'm anti-equal rights and against laws that would make sure the law is applied fairly, and I'm proud of that arrogance!"

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Divine Discontent]

66. nice way to deflect away from the FACTS in the text. You prove your bias against GLBT people

[Romulox]

13. Bullshit. We have been punishing people differently for the same act based on mental state

Since the dawn of Anglo/American jurisprudence.

"Mens rea"--look it up.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

27. Intent is considered any time there is legal capacity.

That's why manslaughter and murder are sentenced differently, even though the victim's just as dead in either case.

Tucker

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

34. The malice (intent) is what makes the difference. As the additional intent of threat...

...makes a crime a hate crime.

Tucker

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

36. You seem to be the one that needs to go educate yourself.

Intent is exactly the issue here. If the intent was to do more than just commit murder then that is important. If the intent was to target a member of a community because he or she is a member of that community, then the whole community is the target, and the whole community is the victim. The intent was to harm the community. That intent has to be taken into account.

A Murder charge alone doesn't take that intent into consideration.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

43. No, I'm not wrong. Though if you still don't get it then you are

obviously still failing. :eyes:

I hope you don't consider yourself an ally of the civil rights movement.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

49. Where do you get that from

that any of us don't consider ourselves American? Projecting that YOU don't consider us American? :wtf:

[Divine Discontent]

82. I searched that bigots posts, guess what I found?

one said several days ago, "here's one for you liberals" - that should have gotten him canned then, but no one saw it I guess, but in another gun thread (his name was 'forward assist' which is a button on a rifle!), he said this - "I work for the government/military and I own personal firearms and if they think they can force me to relenquish my firearms and to also take the firearms of my fellow Oklahomans then they have a rude awakening."


great, the nutjob has weapons! And let me guess, he's in the national guard!

[AlienGirl]

50. You can consider yourself a bus stop, doesn't mean the bus is gonna stop... nt

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

44. "You're failing" is not a valid argument in a debate. This isn't GLP.

We usually don't assume that the one who can make the most bare assertions has "won."

Tucker

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

58. What are your credentials? We don't accept just anyone as a "teacher" here. nt

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

63. You aren't qualified to teach. There are people here

Far more educated and experience that you. You should listen and try to learn something.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shaniqua6392]

76. I should hope a teacher does not make such horrible grammatical errors!!

Why are we arguing with the newbie who just signed up on DU yesterday to start trouble?? See ya later. Bye. :crazy:

[ThomCat]

29. In a hate crime, two crimes have been committed.

First is the murder, or assault, or whatever the primary crime is.

Second is targeting, threatening and harassing an entire community. Apparently you don't think that terrorizing minority communities should be a crime. :eyes:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

37. Where's your law degree from, again? nt

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlienGirl]

62. Make sure they offer a money-back guarantee! nt

[Divine Discontent]

71. ROFLMAO!

[Divine Discontent]

64. then please...

for God's sake, take some English classes and go spend a lot of time at this site

http://www.spelling.hemscott.net/#top

[ThomCat]

65. Still in college, no doubt taking undergrad classes

at the lower levels, and you think you know everything.

There are lawyers here, professionals, activists, and a whole lot of people who already graduated from college, and from grad school. Don't think that because you are "taking some classes" you're qualified to "be the teacher" here. :eyes:

You're in over your head, and showing nothing but arrogance.

[AlienGirl]

68. There's a reason "sophomore" and "sophomoric" are so close! nt

[ThomCat]

42. Clearly you don't understand prejudice, or care too.

Do you really think that Lynchings were just Murder? Do you really think that Gay Basherings are just Assaults?

You really come across as a deliberately dense white guy who doesn't care if minority communities are terrorized by bigots.

[Divine Discontent]

48. from your mouth to God's ears, ThomCat!

his ignorance is breathtakingly typical of what you just described. As a white, Christian, and Gay person myself - this 'forward assist' asshat is the type that gives Christians a bad name.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Divine Discontent]

61. "ridiculas", "sentance" - youa REALLYA likea lettera A, doncha?

"Wether he like the victemor a certain group doesnt matter!!!" - and this gem needs framed!

Would you stop embarrassing yourself, please? You have shown yourself to be unwilling to accept that the law is not being applied the same, and that without this becoming law, we would still have people knowing that sentences and perhaps even being convicted are less likely because in many states, being Gay is considered a bad thing that one can lose their job for, or be beaten and killed - and therefore, why should they receive any protection?

Thanks for reminding all of us, that we cannot let up, dare we let simpletons, like yourself, continue to dictate to us that Gay people don't deserve equal protections that they are NOT getting at this time in so many different ways.

[ThomCat]

16. No, that isn't what it's about at all.

Hate crimes recognizes that when you attack someone because they are gay, or because they are black, you are not targeting just one person. You are targeting the entire community. You are sending out a threat to the entire community that you are out to get them, all of them, and that any of them could be next.

It is because hate crimes target the all of us in the community, not just the one victim, that hate crime laws exist.

In a typical murder case the one victim is the only victim unless you are dealing with a serial murderer, and those are rare. But hate crimes are common. So this means that if a murderer is targeting lots of people, the chances are he's targeting a minority community because of bigotry.

Unfortunately, members of the majority rarely understand the fear of being targeted because you are a member of a minority. Nor do you often care. So we have to deal with B.S like what you just posted.

[AlienGirl]

17. No; it has to do with intent

A hate crime is a crime that's committed with intent both to commit the crime AND intimidate a class of people who share characteristics with the victim. That's what makes it different from "ordinary" crime: the additional intent.

The laws protect all groups equally, by the way; anyone who has a race, an ethnicity, a religion or a lack of religion, is protected.

Tucker

[Divine Discontent]

20. hello! please educate yourself. as you are not educated on this at all.

hate crimes legislation makes sure the REAL "complete idiot" doesn't get off lightly for simply "just beating up a fag" as too many in too many states would equate it to. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't aware this happens, and that legislation is required to make sure people are tried properly based on the actions that precede the firing, attack, or murder of another human being, merely because they're a Lesbian, Gay, Bi or Transgendered.

[Romulox]

12. The Cracker Barrel beating brings the reality of hate based crimes into focus. Support. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

22. the gop INVENTED legislative blackmail so they should recognize when they see it /nt

[Zoeisright]

40. About time.

[Odin2005]

74. WOOHOO!!!

This disabled person is :woohoo:

[ladywnch]

75. while I am glad this may finally become law I can certainly understand

rethugs being pissed that amendments being attached that have nothing to do with the primary bill. I think it should be a banned practice. But they have ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM TO BITCH about it. They've done it for years (as have dems) so spare me the furor and fake self righteous indignation about it.

[MountainLaurel]

77. Do we know which 15 Dems votes against it? n/t

[FreeState]

88. Here they are...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-770


No AL-2 Bright, Bobby
No AL-5 Griffith, Parker
No CA-13 Stark, Fortney
No CA-51 Filner, Bob
No IL-2 Jackson, Jesse
No ME-2 Michaud, Michael
No MI-14 Conyers, John
No MN-7 Peterson, Collin
No NC-7 McIntyre, Mike
No NC-11Shuler, Heath
No OH-10 Kucinich, Dennis
No OK-2 Boren, Dan
No TN-4 Davis, Lincoln
No VT-0 Welch, Peter
No WA-3 Baird, Brian

---

Im guessing Kucinich voted no for other reasons than the Hate Crimes legislation - he was a co-sponsor of the Hate Crimes Prevention Act in the past. (Dont know about the others).

[WriteDown]

78. The dream police, they live inside of my head.

The dream police, they come to me in my bed.
The dream police, they're coming to arrest me, oh no.

[bhikkhu]

79. Very good - I never understood why it took so long to pass

or rather how anyone could oppose it and still get re-elected.

[DainBramaged]

80. It is a shame something of this significance is tainted by foolish comments and necessary deletions

How fucking sad. This is important news. And those of you who don't think so, why not imagine how it would feel if someone came after you hating you as a matter of fact, because you are purple, what recourse would you have?


This will pass the senate and become law finally. And you scumbags who think it's 'mind control' (what a fucked up way to describe legislating AGAINST hate) can then go fuck yourselves.

[Divine Discontent]

81. hear hear!

[FreeState]

89. +1

I get so tiered of people saying they are against Hate Crime Laws but they only state so when its attempted to add GLBT persons to the law. The same people never work to overturn current laws - only when the gay issue comes up does it become an issue. Tells you something if you ask me.