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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:37 AM
Original message
STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday October 8
Source: du

STOCK MARKET WATCH, Thursday October 8, 2009

Bush Administration Officials Under Indictment = 2
Financial Sector Officials In Prison = 6

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON October 7, 2009

Dow... 9,725.58 -5.67 (-0.06%)
Nasdaq... 2,110.33 +6.76 (+0.32%)
S&P 500... 1,057.58 +2.86 (+0.27%)
Gold future... 1,044 +4.70 (+0.45%)
10-Yr Bond... 3.18 -0.08 (-2.31%)
30-Year Bond 4.00 -0.06 (-1.55%)




U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
NASDAQ FUTURES..............................................S&P FUTURES


Market Conditions During Trading Hours



GOLD, EURO, YEN, Loonie, Silver and US$



Handy Links - Market Data and News:
Economic Calendar    Marketwatch Data    Bloomberg Economic News    Yahoo! Finance
    Google Finance    LayoffDaily    Bank Tracker    Credit Union Tracker

Handy Links - Economic Blogs:
The Big Picture    Financial Sense    Calculated Risk    Naked Capitalism    Credit Writedowns
    Brad DeLong    Bonddad    Atrios    goldmansachs666

Handy Links - Government Issues:
LegitGov    Open Government    Earmark Database    USA spending.gov









This thread contains opinions and observations. Individuals may post their experiences, inferences and opinions on this thread. However, it should not be construed as advice. It is unethical (and probably illegal) for financial recommendations to be given here.

Read more: du
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Market Observation
Hang Time
BY CHRIS PUPLAVA


As we entered this year after the collapse in the markets in the fall of 2008, who would have thought it possible that the S&P 500 would put in a major low and then go on to advance by more than 50%? Granted the S&P 500 underwent a mini bear market (20% + correction) within the mamma bear that began in 2007 as it plunged roughly 25% from the start of the year into the March lows, but a 50% rally in just six months is quite the feat. The S&P 500 was incredibly oversold at the March lows and was due for a rally, which stands in stark contrast to the present condition in which we are entering severely overbought territory. The question to ask now is, how long do we hang out at these overbought levels, and/or will the markets become even more overbought? Essentially, what’s the hang time before the markets return back to earth?

Similar to the gravitational force that causes objects to return to solid ground is the 200 day moving average (200d MA) for many financial markets. The mean reverting phenomena so prevalent in finance is also present in terms of financial assets with their 200d MAs which tends to act like gravity, pulling an asset towards it when it stretches too far. This concept was highlighted in April of this year (Possible vs. Probable: "So you're telling me there's a chance!") as support for why the S&P 500 would rally as it was significantly below its 200d MA. At the March lows the S&P 500 was 36% below its 200d MA, marking the most oversold condition since the Great Depression, clearly in rare territory.

So after a more than 50% run up, where are we today?

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm



The question I have for Mr. Puplava is one about the baseline for establishing the "average". Yesterday here we discussed the psychology of stock valuations and the apparent indifference to P/E ratios, dividends, etc. If this analysis of the 200 day moving average is based on irrationality in pricing, then how does that reflect in his summary analysis? Just wondering.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. Today's Reports
08:30 Initial Claims 10/03
Briefing.com 550K
Consensus 540K
Prior 551K

08:30 Continuing Claims 09/26
Briefing.com 6050K
Consensus 6105K
Prior 6090K

10:00 Wholesale Inventories Aug
Briefing.com -1.2%
Consensus -1.0%
Prior -1.4%

08:30 Trade Balance Aug
Briefing.com -31.0B
Consensus -32.9B
Prior -32.0B

http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/Calendars/EconomicCalendar.htm
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Initial Claims @ 521,000 - last wk rev'd up 3,000 - (seasonally adjusted numbers)
8:30a Total U.S. jobless claims 9.36 million

8:30a U.S. extended benefits up 68,000 to 3.79 million

8:30a U.S. continuing claims fall 72,000 to 6.04 million

8:30a U.S. initial jobless claims fall 33,000 to 521,000

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-initial-jobless-claims-drop-33000-to-521000-2009-10-08

The number of initial claims for state unemployment benefits fell by 33,000 to a seasonally adjusted 521,000 in the week ending Oct. 3, the Labor Department reported Thursday. It's the fewest initial jobless claims since the first week of January. The number of people continuing to claim regular state jobless benefits fell by 72,000 to 6.04 million in the week ending Sept. 26, the lowest since late March. The number of people collecting extended federal benefits rose by 68,000 to 3.79 million, not seasonally adjusted. Including those federal programs, the number of people claiming benefits of any kind in the week ending Sept. 19 was 9.36 million, not seasonally adjusted, down from 9.42 million in the previous week.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oil rises above $70 in Asia as US dollar weakens
SINGAPORE – Oil prices rose above $70 a barrel Thursday in Asia amid a weakening U.S. dollar and mixed crude inventory data.

.....
A slide in the U.S. dollar has helped bolster oil prices, which are traded in the American currency. The euro rose to $1.4767 on Thursday from $1.4687 the previous day, and the dollar slipped to 88.23 yen from 88.60.

Investors were also mulling mixed signals in Wednesday's crude supply numbers from the Energy Information Administration. Gasoline inventories grew by 2.9 million barrels last week and distillate fuel supplies grew by 700,000 barrels, both bigger increases than analysts expected.

But crude supplies dropped by 1 million barrels, while analysts had expected a gain of 1.9 million barrels.

.....
In other Nymex trading, heating oil rose 2.13 cents to $1.80 a gallon. Gasoline for November delivery gained 1.89 cents to $1.74 a gallon. Natural gas for November delivery jumped 7.0 cents to $4.97 per 1,000 cubic feet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/oil_prices
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Gold at fresh record, equities buoyant
LONDON (Reuters) – Gold hit a fresh record high on Thursday as the dollar struggled, while emerging market stocks climbed to their highest level this year.

European shares opened more than 1 percent higher ahead of interest rate decisions from the Bank of England and European Central Bank.

.....
Spot gold topped $1,058 per ounce to mark a record high for the third session in a row. It has primarily been driven higher by the weakening dollar, which makes the dollar-denominated metal more attractive to investors.

.....
The currency has been hit by a combination of expectations that U.S. interest rates will stay low for some time and a belief that the global economy is on the mend, easing the motivation behind last year's flight to dollar safety.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091008/bs_nm/us_markets_global
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Bah Humbug! This Is Your Dollar Devaluing Realtime
It's not that gold is up so much as the dollar is in the toilet.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. When the market declines

I'm thinking the dollar will go back up some, when the market declines. I don't think it is quite worthless.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
39. Our theme for today...
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 09:53 AM by AnneD
From McKenna's Gold

Ol' Turkey Buzzard
Ol Turkey Buzzard, Ol Turkey Buzzard
Flyin, Flyin high,
He's just waiting
Buzzard just a-waiting
Waiting for somethign down below the dive
Old Buzzard knows that he can wait
Cause every mother's son has got a date,
A date with Fate.. With fate

He sees men come, he sees men go,
Crawling like ants on the rocks below
The men will steal, the men will dream
And die for gold onthe rocks below
Gold, Gold, Gold, they just gotta have that gold
Gold, Gold, Gold, they'll do anything for gold


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Couldn't Be More Appropos!
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Asian markets advance as company earnings eyed (European markets too)
HONG KONG – World stock markets gained more ground Thursday as investors awaited decisions on interest rates from Europe's two leading central banks and eyed company earnings for clues about the health of the global economy.

.....
The advance in Asian and European equities came after a mixed finish on Wall Street, where traders were reluctant to place major bets ahead of quarterly reports from U.S. companies.

.....
European markets rose ahead of the decisions, with Britain's FTSE 100 up 1.1 percent, Germany's DAX gaining 1.4 percent and France's CAC-40 climbing 1.6 percent.

Earlier in Asia, Japan's Nikkei 225 stock average rose 32.87 points, or 0.3 percent, to 9,832.47 and Hong Kong's Hang Seng added 251.31 points, or 1.2 percent, to 21,492.90.

Elsewhere, South Korea's Kospi climbed 1.1 percent and India's Sensex was 0.7 percent higher. Australia's index jumped 1.6 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091008/ap_on_bi_ge/world_markets
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. Alcoa’s Faster-Than-Forecast Layoff Savings Yield Surprise Profit
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 05:05 AM by ozymandius
Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Alcoa Inc., the largest U.S. aluminum producer, cut jobs and raw-material costs faster than analysts projected in the third quarter, producing a profit when most had estimated a net loss.

Of the 16 analysts in a Bloomberg survey, all except one projected less than break-even. The average estimate, excluding certain items, was a loss of 9 cents. Instead, Alcoa posted profit of 4 cents a share. Sales, which dropped 34 percent from the previous year, also beat analysts’ forecasts.

.....
Alcoa, which posted losses in the past three quarters, cut 19,000 jobs since June 2008 as the global recession depressed demand and prices for aluminum. By the end of September, Chief Executive Officer Klaus Kleinfeld completed 83 percent of the $2.4 billion reduction in annual costs that he pledged in March to achieve through the end of next year for items including raw materials and transportation.

Net income in the third quarter fell to $77 million, or 8 cents a share, from $268 million, or 33 cents, a year earlier, Alcoa said in a statement yesterday. Sales dropped to $4.62 billion, still surpassing the $4.51 billion analysts projected.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=aqF87MO26ieI



Congratulations to Alcoa. If not for cutting 19,000 jobs in one year, there might be no reason for people to buy their public shares. But then the pool of people who are able to buy Alcoa stocks has shrunk precipitously, as well the number of people who can well afford to buy refined aluminum products.



:sarcasm: - of course
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Po_d Mainiac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
51. Sales $ up due to increase in Al price...shipments off..
Shipments are off by 58,000 metric tons Q to Q :wtf:

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091007006308&newsLang=en

looks like a weed from here
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. I-Believe-in-Strong-Dollar Turns Relic as China Begs Stability (a.k.a.: Talk Is Cheap)
Oct. 8 (Bloomberg) -- More than a decade after former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin made the “strong dollar” national policy, currency traders say the same words coming from the Obama administration have little meaning.

Timothy Geithner, the current Treasury secretary, has tolerated the greenback’s 12 percent slide from its peak this year in March as measured by the Federal Reserve’s trade- weighted Real Major Currencies Dollar Index. While he said as recently as Oct. 3 that “it is very important to the United States that we continue to have a strong dollar,” the last time the U.S. intervened in markets to support its currency was 1995.

The weaker dollar may boost America’s exports as the economy recovers from the deepest recession since the 1930s. The risk is that it may also drive away America’s largest creditors just as the Treasury relies more than ever on foreign investors to buy the bonds financing Barack Obama’s stimulus spending. The dollar’s share of global currency reserves fell in the second quarter to 62.8 percent, the lowest level in at least a decade, the International Monetary Fund in Washington said on Sept. 30.

“Since the dollar has been weak and weakening for years, Geithner was using a code phrase, a carry-over from the Bush administration,” said David Malpass, president of research firm Encima Global in New York. “It means that the U.S. approves of a constantly weakening dollar but doesn’t want a disruptive collapse,” said Malpass, the former chief economist at Bear Stearns Cos. and deputy assistant Treasury secretary from 1986 to 1989.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aPoUCijvAfCk



Secretary Geithner can supersize his coded messages cheaply and easily at this time of year. Halloween season brings plenty of clown makeup and clown wigs at the dollar store. Perfect for public policy statements.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. So now they are destroying our retirement savings....
with inflation. It wasn't enough to steal from us with their financial wizardry.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. I go with a different definition of inflation

I consider inflation when there is a lot of money flowing around, and just about anyone can get anything with credit.

Deflation is when money tightens up, and buying things on credit is difficult. More people buy things using cash during deflation.

So, to me, we are in a deflationary period.


If you think about it, prices can go up and down, during either inflation or deflation. It depends on supply and demand too.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. U.K. Faced ‘Bank Runs, Riots’ as RBS and HBOS Neared Collapse
Oct. 7 (Bloomberg) -- A year ago today, Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc and HBOS Plc were close to collapse, causing a chain reaction that could have ended with riots in U.K. cities, security analysts and economists said.

.....
Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling, Bank of England Governor Mervyn King and Financial Services Authority Chairman Adair Turner met at 5 p.m. on Oct. 7, 2008, and readied a 250 billion-pound ($398 billion) rescue for the banks in the 16 hours before they opened for business the following day. In response to a Freedom of Information Act request from Bloomberg News one year on, the Treasury declined to say if it had a contingency plan for the two banks, then or now.

Releasing such information would probably “have a destabilizing effect on financial markets,” damage the government decision-making process and cause commercial harm to the banks involved, the Treasury said in a letter.

.....
“If RBS hadn’t been propped up as it was, in practice it would have been nationalized the following week,” former Bank of England deputy governor John Gieve said in a Bloomberg Television interview. “If RBS, HBOS, Lloyds had gone down, that would have had huge contagious effects throughout the rest of the world.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aMfETcYI2t7Y



Another example rendered here of the aspects of behavioral psychology in economics.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Consumer credit dives for 7th month
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Consumer credit pulled back for the seventh straight month in August, led by a steep decline in credit card usage, a government report said Wednesday, as unemployment soared and cash-strapped consumers continued to limit spending.

The total amount of credit outstanding fell by $12 billion, or a 5.8% annual rate, to $2.463 trillion in August, according to the Federal Reserve.

Economists predicted total borrowing would dwindle by $10 billion in August, according to a consensus survey from Briefing.com.

.....
Revolving credit, which includes credit card debt, tumbled $9.9 billion to $899.4 billion. That's a 13.1% decrease from the previous year.

Nonrevolving credit, which includes auto and student loans, fell by $2.1 billion, or 1.6%, to $1.563 trillion.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/07/news/economy/consumer_credit/?postversion=2009100715
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Wells To Increase Credit Card Interest Rates To Beat Change in Law
from Naked Capitalism:

Wells Fargo is hardly alone in treating credit card customers badly. Whenever I run a post on credit cards, I get a raft of comments and e-mails about various bank misdeeds, which generally involve rate increases when the borrower is current and has not suffered a fall in his credit score. The other common complaint is a cut in credit lines for no apparent reason (well, save that the banks are trying to please Wall Street).

But consumers are nevertheless, correctly, galled. Banks are getting massive subsidies via the TARP, super-low interest rates, and a host of rescue facilities. And what do they turn around and do? Gouge customers, typically the ones who already have balances and thus are least able to pay higher charges.

Wells is either clumsy or brazen enough to implement its rate changes so as to merit coverage in Bloomberg. Although I have received similar complaints about Chase, Bank of America, and Citigroup, they apparently put their increases through surgically enough so as to keep them largely out of the media.

From Bloomberg:
“This is something we’ve been contemplating for quite a period of time,” Kevin Rhein, group head of card services for the San Francisco-based bank, said today in a telephone interview. “We had just reached the point that we don’t think we can offer credit cards at the current pricing and keep credit flowing.”
Bloomberg story

a bit more at the link above...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Morning, Ozy! Good Morning Boys and Girls!
It's a cold morning to be crawling around throwing papers...38F and lots of stars in a clear moonlit sky. Venus is up, dominating the east. No frost, but I am so grateful for the insulation in the attic (at last).

My little Saturn hit 210K miles this week. Should I buy new tires or a newer car for the winter?

If I had the time to look, I'd have an answer. Without a local paper worthy of the name, it's CraigsList or whatever on line, which takes me a lot longer and leaves more frustration. Not that I don't find car buying frustrating, by definition. The Saturn was the easiest ever, since a neighbor and parent of the Younger Kid owned it, and had been keeping it in good shape for his daughter, who decided she didn't want it. That was nearly 100k ago! How time flies when you're throwing papers.

I'm down to 3 times a week. It's amazing how much less gas I use.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. If the car is still running good, go with the tires.
A cheap set will get you another 40,000 miles. I've got to get a new set for my car soon. I figure that will get me another 3 years out of the car.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I Am Inclined that Way
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 06:15 AM by Demeter
The difference between cheap and expensive is only 100 bucks, and expensive would get me two years on the tires...

When you have no good choices, it's hard to decide. The car runs, but it wouldn't be said to run well, at least not by the mechanic, who has already told me he's married already and does not want to be married to my old Saturn. When the mechanic refuses to fix the car, it's time to get a new car. The Saturn's problems could be cured by a new engine...but the rest of the car is not worthy of the investment.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. I'd go with the tires, too.
1. They're less expensive than buying another car.

2. If/when the car finally gives out, you can always take the new tires off and replace with baldies before you get rid of it.

3. My 2000 Blazer has 160,000+ miles. Since I got it four years ago, at 115,000, I've put in a new fuel pump, transmission, radiator, and a/c. put all new tires on it when I got it, then replaced just two this summer. Some people have asked why I put that much into repairs but others understand -- it's still a helluva lot cheaper than buying another car. Besides, I like this one.



Those of us who can't afford new cars with warranties and who don't have a resident mechanic are generally a lot less inclined to give up the clunker whose rattles and pings we know. Right now, I'd be terrified to get another car that might have all kinds of problems I couldn't diagnose. I'll stick with this one, thanks.


Tansy Gold, who is NOT a mechanic
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Always a tough choice.
You can get two years on the tires, but can you get two more years out of the car? Throwing papers you must do a lot of braking, and you probably drive on the side of the road and the shoulder a lot, just the place they shove all the snow they plow off the road. For Michigan in winter you definitely need good tires, good brakes, a good heater, and good gloves.

I once bought super cheap tires, and they wore out in no time. I told my tire guy I'd rather go with a little better tires, and he fixed me up with much longer lasting tires for a mid-range cost.

We had a Pontiac Trans Sport minivan with 200K+ miles on it that suffered a cracked cylinder head. We hemmed and hawed for a while but decided it was worth fixing it and driving it for several months before getting a new car. Part of our calculation, though, was we have a few friends who have cars in worse shape, and we could pass the old Trans Sport on.

You need reliable transportation, something like a $5,000 used car or better. That's a lot compared to new tires.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. I'd go with the tires
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 06:40 AM by DemReadingDU
I assume the old Saturn is paid for. Why get something newer if you have to make car payments? Unless you have cash to outright buy a newer car. A newer car also brings higher insurance. I'd go with the tires.


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I'm Afraid to Put $400 in Tires
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 07:03 AM by Demeter
and find the engine blows right after.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. See my #28 above
You can always take the tires off and either sell 'em or put 'em on the replacement car.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Don't Know What the market for used tires is, but it's possible
The thought of driving in snow without enough tread is a chiller, and a time-limiting one.

Thanks for helping me think it through, everyone.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. Whatever you do. DO NOT BUY RETREADS!!!!!
About 20 years ago, I was laid off, and selling Kayak swimming pools. I had to travel all over the state. I bought some retreads for my car, and I was having a blowout, on the freeway about once a week.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'll second that....
I will buy rebuilt parts for many things on my car-but never ever buy retreads. Way too dangerous.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. tough decision

Engine can be replaced too, but then you are without a vehicle.

Well, I have to go with spouse to take his vehicle for some kind of brake job, and need to bring him home. Vehicles are a pain sometimes.

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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. Demeter.....
what does your mechanic say? Get it checked really well. It will be money well spent. Maybe you can nurse it through the winter and you can start saving now. It is hard giving up a trust worthy friend- and Saturn's can be good cars. I tend to patch mine until the expenses tally up more than it would cost me to get a new vehicle.

When we were broke, we had 1000K cars so I wasn't too sentimental. The last car was a 2500k. I fear that the transmission is going out-thus our search for a newer vehicle. There are plenty to be had and a couple of thousand cash in hand can get you a good car. We have upgraded so Hubby and I both have good reliable paid for cars. We bought well and our 1000K cars got and kept us out of debt.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. That's My Goal
It's just that this whole gall bladder fuss blew my schedule out of the water, and I'm still dealing with it, otherwise, I would have been looking already. I'm thinking of trading the Kid in for a dog. Maybe a stuffed dog.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. The Fudd is not on the market.
He is well stuffed though.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
59. Who declared it car repair day? I just had Sears put a new battery in mine.
It was having trouble starting mornings. They replaced a corroded battery terminal, too. Maybe that's why the battery went bad. It wasn't completely dead, but I want a good battery before the weather gets really cold.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
62. Unlikely a blown engine
If your engine is in good shape, get the tires. I come from a long line of mechanics, although just an amateur myself, they've taught me to look for the following in evaluating your engine. First, is it making any noise? Not rattling or pinging (higher pitch noises are generally inconsequential); I mean do you hear any low pitched knocking or grinding? Those types of noises would be a serious hint at looking for a newer used car. Next, how much oil is your car burning? If you eliminate leaks, as long as you're only running through less than a quart per 1000 miles, your engine probably has a lot of life left. Next check your car's exhaust. Is it mostly clear, or dark and sooty, or worse white and oily smelling? Bad exhaust could be a sign of significant engine wear or a worn head gasket (this would be coupled with an internal coolant leak).

Finally, if you are really worried, you could go to a local mechanic and have him do a compression test on your cylinders (should cost no more than $50) and this would give you an excellent prognosis on your remaining engine life.

For tires, I'd recommend Costco and a set of the bargain Michelin, XT radials. I've bought two sets for two cars and they are very quiet and very good traction. Or a little less nice and a bit cheaper, some Goodyear Traction TA's are also nice.

I've never bought a new car in my life and have bought or helped others to buy more than a few with over 100k miles that lived a much longer life span. I'm trying to get my '95 Subaru up to 300K (currently at 225K)!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Oh, I've Got the Mechanic's Opinion
He calls the newest noise the car's "Death Rattle". It's burned oil forever--it's a Saturn, after all. The pistons are okay, but I wouldn't buy green bananas for it, assuming it ate bananas. And my Volvo blew the oil seal and the mechanic refused to do anything--it was at 300k more or less. That's what worries me most.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. Depends on how the body is holding up
If the frame's solid and the skin is tight, get the tires. If the engine or other parts of the drive train die, then junkyards are your best friend. You'd be amazed how long you can keep third world transportation going, feeding off the bodies of the dead in junkyards.

Just get retreads. Or get decent tires from a junker.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Saturns are Fiberglass--Impervious to Rust
a fully loaded shopping cart careening unrestrained, however...

I know. It's just that a 15 year old car is pushing it for spare parts. The Junkyard stuff is just as old as the original car, and just as worn, and GM is killing the brand....
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. The junkyard stuff can be relatively new
if the car was owned by somebody with bad enough luck to total it within its first 5 years.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dilbert Updates the 9-5 Plotline
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. What Recession? By Les Leopold
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23641.htm



October 05, 2009 "Alternet' -- It's great to know that during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, the wealth of the 400 richest Americans, according to Forbes, actually increased by $30 billion. Well golly, that's only a 2 percent increase, much less than the double digit returns the wealthy had grown accustomed to. But a 2 percent increase is a whole lot more than losing 40 percent of your 401k. And $30 billion is enough to provide 500,000 school teacher jobs at $60k per year.

Collectively, those 400 have $1.57 trillion in wealth. It's hard to get your mind around a number like that. The way I do it is to imagine that we were still living during the great radical Eisenhower era of the 1950s when marginal income tax rates hit 91 percent. Taxes were high back in the 1950s because people understood that constraining wild extremes of wealth would make our country stronger and prevent another depression. (Well, what did those old fogies know?)

Had we kept those high progressive taxes in place, instead of removing them, especially during the Reagan era, the Forbes 400 might each be worth "only" $100 million instead of $3.9 billion each. So let's imagine that the rest of their wealth, about $1.53 trillion, were available for the public good.

What does $1.53 trillion buy?

It's more than enough to insure the uninsured for the next twenty years or more.

It's more than enough to create a Manhattan Project to solve global warming by developing renewable energy and a green, sustainable manufacturing sector.

And here's my favorite: It's more than enough to endow every public college and university in the country so that all of our children could gain access to higher education for free, forever!

Instead, we embarked on a grand experiment to see what would happen if we deregulated finance and changed the tax code so that millionaires could turn into billionaires. And even after that experiment failed in the most spectacular way, our system seems trapped into staying on the same deregulated path.

Instead of free higher education, health care and a sustainable economy, we got a fantasy finance boom and bust on Wall Street which crashed the real economy. We have our 400 billionaires, and we have 29 million unemployed and underemployed Americans. We have an infrastructure in shambles. We have an environment in crisis. We have a health care system that would make Rube Goldberg proud. And we have the worst income distribution since 1929.

I hazard to guess that each and every Forbes 400 member could get by with a net worth of $100 million. I don't think that would kill their entrepreneurial drive or harm our economy--in fact it would be a major boon to the economy to step back from the edge of such massive concentration of wealth. The real problem is getting there form here. A wealth tax that kicks in when you become worth more than $100 million would be a good start. The Eisenhower tax rate on adjustable gross income over $3 million a year would help as well.

And please let's not call it socialism, now that we've placed the entire financial sector on welfare to the tune of over $13 trillion in subsidies and guarantees. (By the way, the yearly budget outlays for means tested programs for low income citizens is about $350 billion per year. So Wall Street's welfare is about 37 times as large as welfare for poor.)

So if narrowing the income/wealth gap isn't socialism, what is it? It's the America that thrived in the 1950s and 1960s. It's the America that created a middle-class and vowed never to let the financial gamblers return us to another depression. It's an America that put its people to work and built an infrastructure that was the envy of the world.

Where's Dwight David Eisenhower when we need him?

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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. $1.53 trillion by Festivito's thinking would be about $5,000 per American
or $15,000 for a family of three. I'm so glad my $5,000 is making the super-rich infinitesimally more wealthy.

The problem with trying to do anything about this over-concentration of wealth is that the super-rich kinda by definition really, really like money. They will fight like hell to keep it. And they can afford to spend many millions in lobbyists' fees and campaign donations to buy the influence they need to keep the rest. We can appeal to their "better nature," but if they like money that much, what are the chances they have much love left over for less fortunate people?
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Something Much less than Zero
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
17. Cure Millions of Leprosy -- or Just Give Hank Paulson a Tax Break?
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175122/matt_bivens_pox_americana


October 05, 2009 "Tomdispatch" -- There are many possible responses to the news that we have committed more than four trillion public dollars to Wall Street.

Mine is a roar of admiration.

Four trillion dollars! Holy hell! I didn't even know that was possible!

U.S.A.! U.S.A.!

After all, the cost of World War II in inflation-adjusted dollars was $4 trillion. This bailout thing is just getting started, and already we've burned through that.

Without even noticing.

Certainly without rationing sugar or collecting scrap rubber or any of that nonsense.

Who's the Greatest Generation now, baby?

Admit it. You feel it too. Just imagine someone snatching your laptop off a table and throwing it, Olympic-discus style, hundreds... and hundreds... and hundreds of feet. Sure, you'd be upset (and stuck with the bill). But however briefly, you'd feel admiration for the physical feat: Look at that thing fly!

So it goes with our bailouts, wild tax cuts, and war budgets. The money in play is staggering, but everyone acts like that's something to mope about. Where's the excitement?

Often, after reading an incomprehensible dollar figure, I'll Google "What does a trillion dollars look like?" to get myself fired up. One example of where this takes you shows a million dollars (pathetic, wouldn't fill a grocery bag), a billion (interesting, I could fit it in a truck), and then a trillion. (Wow, it spreads for acres! Look at that tiny human included for scale!)

It turns out that the United States can pick up that sort of weight and just smash it down on whatever the hell we want. Like Optimus Prime with giant square green paper fists. Slam! Slam!

Yet we've committed not one trillion dollars to the incompetent and/or corrupt, but more than four trillion dollars. That's according to a report to Congress from special inspector general Neil Barofsky, the overseer of the bank bailout program.

Technically, Barofsky adds, Wall Street's IOU to you and me is at about three trillion dollars these days, since some of it's been paid back. Relieved? Don't be. As these tsunamis of public wealth pour out, ignore the slosh and focus on the order of magnitude. The entire Gross Domestic Product -- the number reflecting all wealth generated in this nation for this year -- is only $14.1 trillion. So whether the sum of our money that's now their money is $3 trillion (1/5th of all wealth generated in America in a year) or $4.7 trillion (1/3rd of all wealth generated in America in a year), it still means that, for a big chunk of the year, every single one of us was working for Goldman Sachs et al.

Barofsky's report also suggests that Wall Street's tab might ultimately work out to $24 trillion, which would be $80,000 per American, or $320,000 for a family of four. But that's, like, totally the worst-case scenario. (Still, wouldn't it be impressive? I envision huge, five-foot-cubed, shrink-wrapped pallets of dollars dropping from the sky onto my neighborhood, smashing houses, crushing cars, killing beloved pets, blasting craters into asphalt streets. Yeah!)

Smallpox and Bikinis

And yet could we employ this financial muscle in a more constructive way?

For an illuminating example, consider how we dealt with smallpox. That airborne virus, with its fevers reaching 106 F and signature pus-filled skin eruptions, was the greatest killer of man ever known.

In the 20th century, smallpox killed more people than all of that bloody century's wars combined.

In fact, if you tally the worldwide death tolls for World Wars I and II, the Korean and Vietnam wars, the Iran-Iraq war and the Mexican Revolution, the civil wars in China and Russia and Spain, and all the other wars of the last century, from Afghanistan to Zaire, the total is less than one-third of the smallpox death toll.

And that's just a single 100-year period, for a disease that disfigured Egyptian pharaohs, allied with Hernando Cortes to rout the Aztecs, left a young George Washington scarred, later stalked his Continental Army, and left Abraham Lincoln pale, weak, and dizzy as he delivered his Gettysburg Address.

And yet, in the 1960s, smallpox was targeted by visionary public health experts -- and in just 10 years it was gone. An excellent new book by D.A. Henderson, the doctor who led the effort, tells the story: Smallpox: The Death of a Disease.

This was a signature achievement, up there with defeating the Nazis or walking on the moon. To track down a virus in every corner of the planet, encircle it with vaccinations and kill it… I began to wonder how many five-foot-cubed pallets of Benjamins the world had brought to bear. After all, this was mankind's greatest killer -- the Joker to our Batman, Lex Luthor to our Superman. The amounts of cash flung about must have been awe-inspiring.

Chasing down the cost of the 10-year eradication campaign was not easy. Eventually, Dr. Henderson himself steered me to a 1,450-page official history of smallpox maintained as a PDF in a sleepy corner of the website of the World Health Organization (WHO). The answer, hidden away on page 1,366: $300 million.

Three hundred million?

Not trillion? Not even billion?

Such a tiny sum of money for such a tremendous feat? It's like hitting a home run at Fenway Park using a chopstick for a bat.

The price paid to defeat humanity's greatest foe wouldn't cover a 24-hour day of Iraqi combat operations. In Wall Street bailout terms, there's no way to even talk about sums this tiny. To do that, we have to go the level of overcompensated individuals. So, sure, $300 million could eradicate history's greatest killer of humans -- yet the same sum wouldn't cover the bonus pool for the executives of the insurance company AIG after its great meltdown. It's less than what just one man, Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld, pulled down over the past 5 years.

It's even more striking if you remember that this was a price tag for a worldwide program whose cost was shared by multiple governments; and also a total cost over a 10-year period. To think about it in annual budgeting terms, it works out to $30 million a year. Which is approaching the ridiculous. Hell, the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue for 2006 featured a blond in a bikini of diamonds worth $30 million.

We Fight Over There So We Don't Have to Fight Here

These are sad economic times, sadder still when you consider the tsunamis of wealth going to waste: four trillion dollars for Wall Street welfare queens; somewhere from one to three trillion for anyone affluent enough to own a top hat and a monocle; another trillion or so (and counting) for our current military escapades abroad.

But it's also just damned exciting. Because, frankly, it's a helluva lot of money we have to play with! Even now, at one of our darkest economic hours, we could be performing miracles with the spare change left behind the national couch cushions.

If you're an engineering type, you might prefer that those miracles involve shoring up our creaking national infrastructure. Good! Go write your own article.

I'm a doctor so I'll stick with medical possibilities. Since the smallpox triumph, public health experts have been inspired to target other diseases for eradication. One is polio, a virus known for paralyzing a minority of its unluckiest victims, among them former president Franklin D. Roosevelt; two others are Guinea worm and leprosy, plagues dating back to the Bible.

The World Health Organization and the volunteer service organization Rotary International have spent two decades tracking down and vaccinating billions of people against polio. They calculate that they've prevented the paralysis of five million children worldwide.

Just this May, a 10-day frenzy saw the immunization of more than 222 million children in Africa and Asia. It was possible to watch the campaigners' march through Africa on Google Maps. Among the foot soldiers in that vaccine war: Ali Mao Moallim, who more than three decades ago became the last person on Earth to contract wild smallpox. (Others have caught smallpox in the laboratory since.)

Think about that: inoculating 222 million children in 10 days. For comparison, there are only about 80 million children in the entire United States.

Imagine inoculating every child in America in 10 days. In 10 days, we couldn't even get every voter in Florida to figure out whom they chose for president.

Not so long ago, polio roamed the globe, and each day would paralyze 1,000 children. Today, there are only some hundreds of cases each year, mostly in underdeveloped areas of Africa and Asia.

The entire 21-year slog has so far cost five billion dollars. By comparison, Wall Street executive bonuses last year -- not salaries, but bonuses, for a single year that saw the whole mess collapse and the taxpayers handed the broom -- came to $18 billion.

If you look at the polio campaign costs on an annual basis, it's about $240 million a year, or less per year than it has cost to occupy Iraq per day.

The United States has been polio-free since 1994. But if the polio campaign falters, the virus could return. This, unlike Iraqi military operations, truly is a case of having to fight them overseas so as not to face them at home.

And why would the polio campaign falter? Because there are huge demands on the public purse and we must spend judiciously; otherwise, Wall Street CEOs would have to pay for their own $87,000 area rugs and $68,000 credenzas. (What's a credenza? I had to look it up. Turns out it's that sideboard thing you only see in the movies, where Wall Street villains keep their decanters of fine whiskey for toasting the paralysis of small children.)

Casting Out the Fiery Serpent

Consider another life-saving success-for-pennies program that's evolving right now, in fact racing against polio to be the next public health triumph. We are on verge of eradicating Guinea worm, a parasite believed to be the "fiery serpent" that torments the Hebrews during the Exodus. Go read your Bible, it's in there.

A female Guinea worm matures in its victim's gut, growing two feet long. Then, over a year marked by cramping, nausea, and fevers, it burrows out of the intestines, down through a leg, and to the skin surface. A blister forms accompanied by a burning sensation -- hence the "fiery serpent." The agonized victim immerses the leg in water for relief; on cue, the worm releases a cloud of larvae. Others drink downstream, and the cycle repeats itself.

Treatment involves digging into a blister to seize the worm's head, then extracting it over days to weeks by wrapping it around a stick -- a therapeutic image that some argue may have inspired the Rod of Asclepius, the physician's symbol of a snake coiled around a staff.

Guinea worm still plagued millions when former President Jimmy Carter organized a charitable foundation and challenged his advisers to suggest a disease to stamp out. They nominated Guinea worm: Humans are its only host, so if the cycle is broken in people, the parasite will be gone.

Thanks to larvicides, nylon water filters, and education, we are almost there. Today, there are fewer than 5,000 recorded Guinea worm cases in six African countries. The total cost of this 23-year campaign to date has been $225 million. Or less than $10 million a year.

This sort of chump change is so small, you can't even talk outsize salaries; you have to focus on the tax breaks on those outsize salaries. So, consider that the following celebrities have saved the following estimated sums each year on their taxes, courtesy of Bush-era tax cuts: movie producer Jerry Bruckheimer, $5.8 million; L.A. Laker Kobe Bryant, $1.6 million; rapper 50 Cent, $6 million; real estate mogul Donald Trump, $1.2 million.

Imagine a sort of a Congressional reverse earmark -- one that canceled the Bush tax cuts only for Bruckheimer, out of punishment for Armageddon and Pearl Harbor -- and steered the resulting millions to disease control efforts. Really, would any of these men notice the slightest changes in their lives if they returned to paying Clinton-era tax rates?

When Curing Millions of Leprosy is "Failure"

But wait. Aren't some of these public health campaigns wasteful failures? Sure they are. Let's look at one public health failure: The drive to eliminate leprosy.

Caught early enough, leprosy can be cured today with the antibiotics dapsone, rifampicin, and clofazimine. Over 25 years -- courtesy of Novartis pharmaceuticals and the Japanese Nippon Foundation -- these medicines have been handed out for free, and have cured more than 14 million people of the disease. They work so well that the WHO now recommends integrating the world's 250,000 known leprosy patients into primary-care settings, just like those with any other illness.

Treatment is so effective, in fact, that several years ago the WHO launched a campaign to eliminate leprosy entirely. Ultimately it sank 15 years and about $200 million into the project. (I cannot find a link for the $200 million figure, provided to me by WHO officials in e-mail correspondence.)

But there's a logistical nightmare when trying to eliminate leprosy. Other targets such as smallpox, polio, and Guinea worm exist in one reservoir only: sick humans.

Not so with Mycobacterium leprae, a bacterium that attacks skin and nerve cells. Even today, we don't know everywhere this bug lives. It has been found in the oddest places: in armadillos in Louisiana and Texas, in the noses of healthy people in some parts of the world, and even in some soil samples.

Such a bug was never an easy target. Even so, in 1991, the World Health Organization vowed its "elimination" -- and then defined "elimination" to mean less than 1 case per 10,000 people. At such a low background level, it was hoped, the disease might dwindle into irrelevance. It hasn't worked. That 1-in-10,000 target was arrived at via politics and hopeful thinking. It was achieved worldwide in 2000, putting the WHO in the risible position of claiming "elimination!" and then seeking more money to, like, eliminate it some more.

The organization was bitterly criticized. Earnest, indignant treatises have been written noting that there is too little money to go around, and accusing the WHO of risking the credit of the more promising drives against polio and Guinea worm.

So, the anti-leprosy push was a $200 million failure.

Because it didn't eradicate leprosy.

It only cured 14 million people.

Of leprosy.

For half the price of an Alaskan bridge to nowhere.

Oddly enough, $200 million is reportedly the tax deferral enjoyed by former Goldman Sachs CEO Henry Paulson -- he of bailout infamy -- when he joined the Bush cabinet as treasury secretary.

So there you have it, finally: For $200 million of public money we can take a walk in the footsteps of Jesus Christ himself, curing millions of leprosy. A truly inspiring future is, as always, easily within reach, if we choose it.

Or we can just give Hank Paulson a tax break. Maybe throw in a credenza by way of thanks.

Matt Bivens is in his intern year at a Harvard-affiliated emergency medicine residency at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. He is a former editor of the Moscow Times who lived for years in Russia, and who covered the war in Chechnya for the Los Angeles Times. His journalism has appeared in Harper's, Playboy, the Nation, and many other publications.
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tclambert Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
60. Cure leprosy? There was a guy who tried that once, and the Republicans of his day crucified him.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. Bernanke's Remedy: Pump More Blood Into a Corpse By Mike Whitney
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23639.htm


October 05, 2009 "Information Clearing House" -- Credit is everything. Without credit expansion there's no recovery because there's no pick-up in overall demand. But credit growth is going backwards. The banks have tightened lending standards and the pool of credit-worthy applicants has vanished. Bank lending is off 14 per cent since October 2008. Private credit is presently decreasing at a 10.5 per cent annual rate. The situation is getting worse, not better.

From the UK Telegraph:

"Both bank credit and the M3 money supply in the United States have been contracting at rates comparable to the onset of the Great Depression since early summer, raising fears of a double-dip recession in 2010 and a slide into debt-deflation...

“Similar concerns have been raised by David Rosenberg, chief strategist at Gluskin Sheff, who said that over the four weeks up to August 24, bank credit shrank at an ‘epic’ 9pc annual pace, the M2 money supply shrank at 12.2pc and M1 shrank at 6.5pc.

"’For the first time in the post-Second World War era, we have deflation in credit, wages and rents and, from our lens, this is a toxic brew,’he said. (Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, "US credit shrinks at Great Depression rate prompting fears of double-dip recession", UK Telegraph)

Foreclosures, delinquencies and defaults are all up. Foreclosure activity is currently at 300,000-plus per month and rising. A huge shadow inventory is being kept off-market to maintain prices. The drip, drip, drip-effect of excess inventory dumped onto the market will keep housing in the doldrums for a decade. Homeowners are unable to borrow on underwater homes. Everything points to a long-term slump in spending.

Corporations are finding it harder to roll over their debt, bank loans are defaulting at a historic pace, and commercial real estate is imploding. Credit destruction is unprecedented, massive and ongoing. The capital hole is bigger than the Fed and bigger than the Treasury. It can't be plugged with liquidity alone.



For now, the government can fiddle GDP with $800 billion infusion of stimulus, but what happens when the political will for more deficit spending dissipates? What happens when foreign investors demand the Fed stop writing checks on an overdrawn account?

The Fed has fixed nothing. The banks are still underwater, output is at record lows, and unemployment is climbing towards 10 per cent. Fed chair Ben Bernanke's multi-trillion dollar rescue programs have kept a wobbly system upright, but nothing more. The economy's underlying problems are still the same. The Fed's quantitative easing (monetization) program has sent stocks surging, but done nothing to stimulate the economy. That's because equities bubbles have negligible impact on aggregate demand; there's no knock-on effect. The real economy is still flatlining while Wall Street parties on. Bernanke's plan has been a total wash.

The government cannot deficit spend forever. Eventually, GDP will have to depend on wage growth and credit expansion. Given the political and institutional bias against labor, (and opposition to wages that rise with productivity) the only way to fuel the economy is through credit growth. And there's the rub. Households have lost nearly $14 trillion in wealth since the crisis began and are in no position to resume borrowing at pre-crisis levels. Consumers are cutting back on spending and paying down debt. They have no other choice.

This is from Bloomberg News:

"Americans plan to refrain from boosting their spending even after the biggest drop in consumption since 1980, signaling concern about the direction of the economy over the next six months.

“Only 8 per cent of U.S. adults plan to increase household spending, almost one-third will spend less, and 58 per cent expect to ‘stay the course,’ a Bloomberg News poll showed. More than 3 in 4 said they reduced spending in the past year.

“Underscoring consumers’ austere attitudes, 77 per cent of respondents said they have cut back on spending during the past year, 59 percent said they have made a bigger effort to pay off debts and 48 percent have put more money aside as savings." (Bloomberg News)

Savings are up and spending is down. The economy is headed into a long-term funk; the "new normal". The Fed's sleight-of-hand programs and Obama's stimulus elixir haven't changed the prevailing downward trend. If anything, they have made matters worse. Consider this from Janet Tavakoli, author of "Dear Mr. Buffett" in an interview with Max Keiser:

"Regarding the outlook, my analysis is grim. I am not a doomsayer, I follow the cash, and so far, I’ve been correct, and the government has been wrong. Here’s the situation. We are at greater risk of a total meltdown due to a deflationary collapse than we were in 2007. After the greatest Ponzi scheme in the history of the capital markets, we’ve seen history’s greatest fiscal and monetary expansion, but it hasn’t worked. Debt levels of consumers and business exceed the capacity to repay." (Janet Tavakoli On The Edge With Max Keiser)

The Fed has done nothing to restructure the financial system so the same problems which killed Lehman and thrust the global economy into a tailspin, persist today. When the stimulus runs out and the Fed ends its $1.25 trillion purchase of (Fannie and Freddie) mortgage-backed securities and $300 billion in US Treasuries, interest rates will rise, housing prices will tumble, and the economy will nosedive. Bernanke will be forced back to the printing presses, the only hope for reversing the deflationary spiral. This will trigger the next crisis, a run on the dollar.

This is from an article by Alice Schroeder of Bloomberg News:

"In all the talk of inflation because the Treasury is printing so much money versus deflation because it may not print enough, there is one type of inflation that is rarely discussed. This is the mega-inflation caused by a sudden currency devaluation. Currency is like any financial innovation, an obligation secured by assets. When the obligation is perceived to have increased far beyond the level justifiable by the assets, which in this case make up a country’s economy, a bubble has formed......Right now, the American economy is worth less than the value implied by the market value of its obligations." (Gold Tells You U.S. Bubble Hasn’t Popped Yet: Alice Schroeder, Bloomberg)

The system crashed because it was built on the false assumption that an unregulated shadow banking system could generate an infinite amount of credit without sufficient capital. This proved to be wrong. Capitalism requires capital. The trillions of dollars in loans, complex debt-instruments, off-balance sheet operations and derivatives contracts were all stacked atop a tiny scrap of capital which eventually collapsed beneath the weight of the debt. This system (securitization) which created the mess, cannot be restored. It required a strong currency, artificially low interest rates, and credulous investors who were unaware of the inherent risks of illiquid assets. Those conditions no longer exist, nor have they for more than two years. Even so, the Fed continues to pump blood into a corpse hoping for some fleeting sign of life. This is why an even bigger crisis cannot be too far off.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. Break the Banks: Why don't any of the Obama administration's financial reforms help middle-class Ame

By Eliot Spitzer


The Obama administration, which has spent much of the past year bailing out banks and protecting the markets, has done shockingly little to help the middle class that has borne the brunt of the financial meltdown. Two acts are particularly revealing. First, the administration failed to go to the mat to give judges the power to reform mortgages in the bankruptcy context. The administration barely winced as the Senate caved to the banks on this critical issue, risking no political capital to protect one of the few reforms that could have totally transformed the mortgage crisis. As the foreclosure wave continues, and as adjustable-rate mortgages hit reset points that are going to cause havoc for millions of additional families, this failure of political leadership by the administration stands as one of the early warning signs that things were amiss.

The second act is the recent—equally difficult to understand—concession to the banks, allowing them not to be required to offer what are called "plain vanilla" mortgages and other products to consumers. These products are simpler, more understandable, less ridden with fees, and less prone to long-term risk than most of what banks try to sell consumers on a regular basis. These are the very products consumers need.

Trillions of dollars of taxpayer infusions—direct cash, loan guarantees, capital purchases, policies to keep banks' cost of capital at virtually zero—have kept the banks afloat. It is amazing that the administration didn't leverage these infusions to negotiate these two simple policies that would have made banking more sensible for the middle-class Americans whose tax dollars have bailed out the banks.

The administration's failure on these two policies is symptomatic of its larger failure of vision when it comes to banking reform. The administration has spent more time worried about the musical chairs of regulatory jurisdiction than it has asking fundamental questions about what banks should be doing, what we should expect in return for the vast sums we have invested in the banks, and how discomforting it is that the banks—in an effort to forestall these very questions—are already trying to assert that things have reverted to normal. It's worth recalling that the greatest impact of the New Deal was not the money spent on particular programs but, rather, the fundamental restructuring of the banking and securities sector that President Roosevelt imposed over the objections of business leaders.

Among the advisers to the White House, only Paul Volcker appears to be asking the tough questions. Volcker is asking what banks should be permitted to do if they want to have explicit federal guarantees on deposits and implicit guarantees that they are too big to fail. Unfortunately, Volcker does not seem to have a central role in any of the critical decisions.

The administration also hasn't asked whether the banks are using the capital we have given them in ways that will generate the economic recovery we need. The administration may believe that guiding bank investment through limits or obligations would not be good policy. Yet most thoughtful observers agree that even if a precise return to a Glass-Steagall separation of investment and commercial banking may not be wise, some constraints on how banks with federal support deploy their capital are absolutely necessary.

Too many banks refuse to reform mortgages and refuse to lend to midsize companies yet simultaneously pursue the activities that do little to create jobs but do much to generate the type of paper profits that fueled the last bubble: proprietary trading, highly leveraged private-equity deals, and foreign investment. These activities are not the fuel for domestic job growth that federal dollars and guarantees should provide. They are also more likely to lead to significant losses that will once again require taxpayer intervention.

For 50 years, under a regime of careful constraints on how and to whom banks lent, we avoided a meltdown of the sort we have just suffered though. The least we should now expect is a serious conversation about where banks should be active and how we can avoid rebuilding the same system that just collapsed.

The message we should be sending is clear: If banks want to participate in the high-risk activity that generates outsize bonuses but also outsize risk, they must do so only with their own capital, separated from guaranteed deposits and a taxpayer backstop to their debt and borrowing capacity. Unfortunately, this message is not being sent. If, after all the fuss of supposed banking reform, we do not redefine the relationship between banks and their customers and redefine what banks do with our capital, we will have failed. We will get neither the real economic recovery we need nor the assurance that another round of bailouts will not be necessary in the near future.



Eliot Spitzer is the former governor of the state of New York.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2231088/
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
22. Barack Obama got many campaign contributions from Goldman Sachs
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/25/michael-moore/barack-obama-goldman-sachs-campaign-contributions/

Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore has a new film coming out — Capitalism: A Love Story — and he appeared on Comedy Central's The Colbert Report to promote it.

The show's ironically conservative host, Stephen Colbert, defended capitalism and the bailouts of late 2008, which led to a mock debate between them.

At first, Wall Street was actually angry about the bailouts, Colbert claimed. "Because it might come with strings attached," he explained. "But they forgave Obama when he didn't add any. Now all is forgiven."

"That's why you like Obama so much now?" Moore asked.

"I don't like Obama so much," Colbert said. "On this, I do. And your film is helping me like Obama, because you're a critic of his. You think he's in the pocket of guys like Goldman Sachs."

"I point out in the film that Goldman Sachs is his No. 1 private contributor," Moore answered. "But I voted for the guy. I'm still hopeful that he's going to do the right thing and side with us, and not Wall Street. But the jury's out on that."

We'll let you draw your own conclusions on their debate. We wanted to check Moore's statement about Obama's contributors and the financial services firm Goldman Sachs.

Obama made a big deal during the election that he didn't accept money from federal political action committees or lobbyists.

But laws require individuals to disclose their occupation and their employer when they donate to federal political candidates. We checked with the Center for Responsive Politics, a well-respected nonpartisan group that specializes in analyzing campaign data. Their numbers include contributions from employees and their immediate families.

Their analysis of the 2008 presidential campaign found that University of California employees were Obama's top donor, giving a collective $1.6 million. That system is run by the state of California, and hence is a public employer.

No. 2 was Goldman Sachs. Goldman employees gave Obama $994,795.

Obama's next biggest donors were the employees of Harvard University, Microsoft, Google, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Time Warner, the law firm Sidley Austin, and Stanford University. View Obama's complete list and amounts here. Incidentally, Goldman Sachs ranked No.4 on John McCain's list of employee contributions, at $230,095.

Moore said that Goldman Sachs is Obama's "No. 1 private contributor." The data shows that is correct. We rate his statement True.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. U.S. consumer bankruptcies up 24 percent in August
http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSTRE5815X020090902

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Bankruptcy filings by U.S. consumers rose 24 percent in August compared with a year earlier and could reach 1.4 million this year, according to an American Bankruptcy Institute and National Bankruptcy Research Center report released on Wednesday.

Despite the spike, consumer bankruptcy filings last month were down 5 percent from July.

The August bankruptcies brought the 2009 number to 922,000.

In 2008, a total of 1.1 million consumers filed for bankruptcy, according to ABI.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Star Trek Geek That I Am
I refer you to Joan Collins speech at the mission (22 minutes in)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNNQMIjjWgQ

and recommend the entire episode for your viewing enjoyment (and nostalgia, for long-time fans).
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. One of my fav's too
City on the Edge of Forever. Didn't Harlan Ellison write that. His work and that of Larry Niven and Phillip Dick were some of my most read and re read books. And I always enjoy the World Science Fiction Conventions. Amazing how it frequently becomes our reality. Never really got in to Dr.Who or Douglass Adams. I liked to read SciFi Anthologies. Read some great stories in those that would make great films.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. Coolest girls
I swear SMW has the coolest girls on DU. Star Trek rocks!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. I Don't Know About AnneD
but girlhood is WAY behind me. If I were to be honest, I qualify as a Crone (but if you quote me or make any mention of this, I will deny it--even I have a denial point!)
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Hmmmm
You're not THE Demeter are you? :-)
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-09-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #68
72. My chick days are behind me now....
but hubby thinks I'm pretty hot.

I was never one for Barbies or Romance novels. I was into pyrotechnics and sci-fi. Now don't get me wrong-I love fashion and could be at home at a designer trunk show-I'm just not a total girlie girl.

I think the guys here are cool too.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
35. Jobless lose lifeline as Senate stalls
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/08/news/economy/extending_unemployment_benefits/index.htm

400,000 unemployed Americans ran out of benefits last month. But a move in Congress to extend help has been slowed as senators debate who should qualify.


Generous Max Baucus wants to extend by a WHOLE four weeks to SOME States. What is wrong with these people? Lets stop calling them the Senate and just start calling them the box of bandaids. Where's a JOBS PROGRAM? We need a new Civilian Conservation Core, a new WPA, and these pathetic tools are quibbling over how long (or short) the unemployed should get some help.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. the Senate Acts Like The Money Comes Out of Their Own Pockets
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 10:34 AM by Demeter
Well, if they are the only ones left with a paycheck or some savings or property, I suppose it does....
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #45
49. It does. If they act on behalf of working people, their campaign coffers
will dry up due to the corporate spigots being turned off.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
41. Morning Marketeers.......
:donut: and lurkers.

FDIC FLAME OUT or WHAT DO YOU WANT ON YOUR TOMBSTONE:

As you know, the FDIC is bank closures are up to 96. Our question is ......When Will We Hit Number 100. I'll give you a clue-it will probably be on a Friday and a big pizza delivery will be involved. So get your calendars out boys and girls. Will we be eating turkey, will we get an extra trick this Halloween, or will we get that extra lump of coal we will need to see us through this winter. Post your guess.

The only difference now is you can only have two guesses and no changes.

What will the winner get....A virtual pizza of your choice: the Bernanke Bologna Bargain, the Geithner Gorgonzola Goliath, the Summer's Sausage Special, the Obama Oahu Pipe Line Pork and Pineapple Special, the 911 Health Care Special (empty box only, no substitutions), the Warren Wrap, or enjoy our wonderful Buffet Buffet.

So place those bets and watch your spreads. I will post them as soon as I can and within the next day. If you have a special pizza that you want, be sure to post that too. I am cranking up the fire and will be happy to help you roast your own pizza.......


Oct 9, 2009
Ozy(1)
The Watcher(1)
Demeter (1)
Dr Pool(1)

Oct13,2009
Tansy Gold (1) going against the trend for a sentimental fav

Oct 16, 2009
AnneD (1) close to my sentimental black Friday-I'll have the pork and pineapple special.
Dr Pool (2)



Watch for our next Pool the Dow 10000!!!! We will begin the Dow Pool after or Flame out game so put your thinking caps on, warm up that Ouija, and shine that crystal ball.

Happy hunting and watch out for the bears.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. I'll Take the Hawaiian Pizza
Like the good Pollack I am, or rather, Polish ham!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Kielbasa and Saurkraut Pizza.
Sounds disgusting, but there was a place in Cleveland that made it. Delicious!

I've made it at home. Tip: Put the kraut under the cheese. Otherwise it gets crunchy, like toasted coconut.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Dear God! Now I can't Eat Lunch
NO NO NO! Kielbasa and kapusta on boiled potato ONLY. With buttered rye or pumpernickel. Jeez! Where did you learn to eat?
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. From pollacks in Cleveland!
But, I ain't touchin' that kishka crap. It smells like a fried skunk!
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Or Bigos! The Smell Alone!
Edited on Thu Oct-08-09 01:37 PM by Demeter
I am a very poor excuse for a Pollack, it's true. Can't stand glompki or stuffed peppers, either. And then there were the taco-stuffed pierogi down in Wyandotte! Blasphemy!
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
61. *peeking in*
Heck, it's only 4 for cripes sakes.

Hmm....looking at the calendar, my Spidey sense starts tingling mid-month so this mostly lurking pessimistic citizen-->servant-->peasant is torn between the 16th and the 23rd. I believe the cat will have chewed and clawed its way out of the gas bag well before the Great Pumpkin rises.

I'm going to have to go with the 16th as my first guess and the 23rd as my second.
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Good for you....
this game is but a warm up for the Dow Pool.

What do you want on your pizza?
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. The Eagle lands tomorrow!
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Custom pizza right? I'll have the rice & bean special please
Considering the mess we're in I'd say it's appropriate.

If Ozy, The Watcher, Dr. Phool and Demeter are correct, I hope they'll share with the rest of us :rofl:

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. But Of Course! Share and Share Alike
Just don't let Dr. Phool choose the pizza, please!
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
52. Dollar stays down after ECB, BOE meetings
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/story/print?guid=45517660-FC05-416F-93E1-ADCA5901F311

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The dollar declines versus the euro and other major counterparts on Thursday, after the European Central Bank said the economy in the euro zone is showing signs of stability and inflation expectations are firmly anchored.

Traders deemed ECB president Jean-Claude Trichet's comments about the shared currency supportive of the euro, when they expected him to indicative the euro was too strong, which hurts exports and slows a recovery in manufacturing-driven economies.

It also highlighted the lack of commentary from U.S. officials in support of a strong dollar, as the currency moves close to key levels of concern, analysts said.

The dollar also fell against the British pound after the Bank of England stuck with its current lending rate and asset-purchase program.

<snip>

"A strong dollar is extremely important in the given circumstances," Trichet said in a news conference.

That's more than U.S. officials have said, RBC's Watt noted.

U.S. policy makers, specifically Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, need to "say they want currency markets to be stable, and that they are cooperating with markets," he said. What officials have said recently "doesn't provide any confidence to markets anywhere. Are they comfortable with Trichet being Mr. Dollar?"

"An orderly decline in the dollar will help the U.S. economy recover, but a disorderly move doesn't," Watt said.

Trichet also said the economic recovery will be "uneven" after the ECB kept its key lending rate at 1%, as widely expected. His comments on the U.S. currency were of most interest to the currency market.

...more...


oopsie!
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
56. Debt: 10/06/2009 11,927,435,900,948.90 (UP 7,556,779,209.36) (Tue)
(Fourth day of the new Obama budget.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 7,506,665,459,975.17 + 4,420,770,440,973.73
UP 640,950,413.48 + UP 6,915,828,795.88

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 308-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.25 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.75, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 10 seconds we net gain a another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 307,639,581 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 09/27/2009 07:13 -> 307,558,299
Currently, each of these Americans owe $38,770.81.
A family of three owes $116,312.43. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 22 reports in the last 30 to 32 days.
The average for the last 22 reports is 6,473,076,090.54.
The average for the last 30 days would be 4,746,922,466.40.
The average for the last 32 days would be 4,450,239,812.25.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 178 reports in 259 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.27B$ per report, 5.02B$/day so far.
There were 253 reports in 371 days of FY2009 averaging 7.52B$ per report, 5.13B$/day.

PROJECTION:
There are 1,202 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.6 and 18.1T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
10/06/2009 11,927,435,900,948.90 BHO (UP 1,300,558,852,035.82 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,017,606,897,437.20 ------------BHO

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
09/16/2009 +000,121,771,969.62 ------------********
09/17/2009 -017,941,949,432.55 -
09/18/2009 -000,312,998,363.37 ---
09/21/2009 -000,319,092,626.95 --- Mon
09/22/2009 -000,005,688,069.16 -----
09/23/2009 -000,186,100,874.04 ---
09/24/2009 -043,516,809,626.65 -
09/25/2009 -000,256,514,563.16 ---
09/28/2009 -000,773,265,151.59 --- Mon
09/29/2009 +000,473,982,417.68 ------------********
09/30/2009 +091,724,705,747.96 ------------**********
10/01/2009 -045,967,461,558.95 -
10/02/2009 +000,166,120,250.33 ------------********
10/05/2009 -000,035,707,866.46 ---- Mon
10/06/2009 +000,640,950,413.48 ------------********

-16,188,057,333.81 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4093186&mesg_id=4093210
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
70. Debt: 10/07/2009 11,925,719,527,944.62 (DOWN 1,716,373,004.28) (Wed)
(11.9 is a scary number, but there just is not much large borrowing going on under this Obama administration.)

= Held by the Public + Intragovernmental(FICA)
= 7,506,680,720,194.61 + 4,419,038,807,750.01
UP 15,260,219.44 + DOWN 1,731,633,223.72

Source: Debt to the penny:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

THINKING IN BILLIONS: Think 3 or 4 dollars per billion in a 308-Million person America.
If every American, man, woman and child puts in $3.25 each THAT'S 1B$.
A family of three: Mom, Dad, Child: $9.75, ABOUT TEN BUCKS for a 1B$ federal program.
I hope that is clear. However, I'd suggest using $3 per 1B$ to underestimate it.
Use $4 per 1B$ to overestimate the cost when thinking: Is the federal program worth it?
Aid to Dependant Children: 2B$/yr =$8/yr(a movie a year) Family of 3: $24/yr(an hour of bowling)

PERSONALIZED DEBT:
Every 10 seconds we net gain a another American, so at the end of the workday of the report, there should be 307,648,221 people in America.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html ON 09/27/2009 07:13 -> 307,558,299
Currently, each of these Americans owe $38,764.14.
A family of three owes $116,292.43. (And that is IN ADDITION to their mortgage.)

ANALYSIS:
There were 23 reports in the last 30 to 33 days.
The average for the last 23 reports is 6,117,013,086.42.
The average for the last 30 days would be 4,689,710,032.92.
The average for the last 33 days would be 4,263,372,757.20.
There were 252 reports in 365 days of FY2007 averaging 1.99B$ per report, 1.37B$/day.
There were 253 reports in 366 days of FY2008 averaging 4.02B$ per report, 2.78B$/day.
There were 75 reports in 112 days of GWB's part of FY2009 averaging 8.03B$ per report, 5.38B$/day.
There were 179 reports in 260 days of Obama's part of FY2009 averaging 7.22B$ per report, 5.00B$/day so far.
There were 254 reports in 372 days of FY2009 averaging 7.48B$ per report, 5.11B$/day.

PROJECTION:
There are 1,201 days remaining in this Obama 1st term.
By that time the debt could be between 13.6 and 18.1T$.
It could be higher. It could be lower.

HISTORICAL:
President's term begins and ends on Jan 20.
(Guess who might want to hide the Reagan Bush years. Jan 20 data is missing before 1993.)
01/20/1993 _4,188,092,107,183.60 WJC Inaugural
01/22/2001 _5,728,195,796,181.57 WJC (UP 1,540,103,688,997.97)
01/20/2009 10,626,877,048,913.08 GWB (UP 4,898,681,252,731.43)
10/07/2009 11,925,719,527,944.62 BHO (UP 1,298,842,479,031.54 so far since Obama took office.)

FISCAL YEAR DEBT CHANGE, Sep 30 prior year to Sep 30 named year:
(One "* " for each 40B$ reached)
FY1994 +0,281,261,026,873.94 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1995 +0,281,232,990,696.07 ------------* * * * * * * WJC
FY1996 +0,250,828,038,426.34 ------------* * * * * * WJC
FY1997 +0,188,335,072,261.61 ------------* * * * WJC
FY1998 +0,113,046,997,500.28 ------------* * WJC
FY1999 +0,130,077,892,735.81 ------------* * * WJC
FY2000 +0,017,907,308,253.43 ------------WJC
FY2001 +0,133,285,202,313.20 ------------* * * C&B
01-WJC +0,053,598,528,417.78 ------------* WJC 31% of FY, 40% of FY-Debt
01-GWB +0,079,686,673,895.42 ------------* GWB 69% of FY, 60% of FY-Debt
FY2002 +0,420,772,553,397.10 ------------* * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2003 +0,554,995,097,146.46 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2004 +0,595,821,633,586.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2005 +0,553,656,965,393.18 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2006 +0,574,264,237,491.73 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2007 +0,500,679,473,047.25 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2008 +1,017,071,524,649.92 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB
FY2009 +1,885,104,106,599.30 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * B&O
09GWB +0,602,152,152,000.60 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * GWB 31% of FY, 32% of FY-Debt
09-BHO +1,282,951,954,598.70 ------------* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BHO 69% of FY, 68% of FY-Debt
FY2010 +0,015,890,524,432.90 ------------BHO

LAST FIFTEEN REPORTS OF ADDITIONS TO PUBLIC DEBT(NOT FICA):
09/17/2009 -017,941,949,432.55 -
09/18/2009 -000,312,998,363.37 ---
09/21/2009 -000,319,092,626.95 --- Mon
09/22/2009 -000,005,688,069.16 -----
09/23/2009 -000,186,100,874.04 ---
09/24/2009 -043,516,809,626.65 -
09/25/2009 -000,256,514,563.16 ---
09/28/2009 -000,773,265,151.59 --- Mon
09/29/2009 +000,473,982,417.68 ------------********
09/30/2009 +091,724,705,747.96 ------------**********
10/01/2009 -045,967,461,558.95 -
10/02/2009 +000,166,120,250.33 ------------********
10/05/2009 -000,035,707,866.46 ---- Mon
10/06/2009 +000,640,950,413.48 ------------********
10/07/2009 +000,015,260,219.44 ------------*******

-16,294,569,083.99 Total of 15 above reports.

Heavy borrowing seems to start after 09/18/2008 while Bush was in power JUST BEFORE fiscal year end.
Bush admin borrowed $962,245,245,654.01 in those last 124 days in office crossing two fiscal years.
$360,093,093,653.42 in last 12 days of FY2008, and $602,152,152,000.59 in subsequent 112 days before leaving office.

For a prettier and more explanatory view of our nation's debt:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock

(Debt to the penny keeps changing. Stuff is missing. Best to keep our own history.) LAST REPORT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4094549&mesg_id=4095193
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