Canada far outranks U.S. in healthcare report card

[Bragi]

Source: CTV News

Canada outshines the United States in health outcomes but is well behind global leaders like Japan in the overall health of its population, a report from the Conference Board of Canada contends.

The annual report card ranks Canada 10th out of 16 developed countries, with a "B" grade.

The United States was the worst performer, placing 16th and earning a "D" grade. Japan was once again the top-ranking country. Switzerland, Italy, and Norway also earned "A" grades.

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090928/healthcare_report_090928/20090928?hub=Health

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This seems like a fair assessment by a respected organization of the relative merits of various health care systems. The point is that, once again, the U.S. comes in as "the worst performer" when actual outcomes are measured.

As a Canadian, I am truly gobsmacked at the strident defense in the U.S of what is claimed to be the world's best health care system when serious studies by serious people show time and again that yours is among the worst in the developed world in terms of delivering good health outcomes.

I just don't get it.

[mediaman007]

1. We're number one in money generated for health care CEO's!

[riverbendviewgal]

2. It perplexes me as well

I am American born but now a Canadian citizen. I have 3 brothers and mother in USA. My mom hangs up on me when I just say Obama's name. My one brother goes by th name Bubba. His daughter works for Lockheed Martin. They both hate Obama. It makes me wonder as they see how the Canadian system works when my husband and my son died of cancer. They were diagnosed 2 months apart. My son had a brain tumor like Ted Kennedy's. My husband had Non Hodgkin's lymphoma. My son survived 18 months and 18 months later my husband died. They both got extensive treatments, CT scans, MRIs, Chemo, numerous operations, radiation, Husband had stem cell harvesting and transplant, nurse home visits, meds, intensive care for weeks, and finally palliative care in hospitals; \

The cost - NOTHING. I am not bankrupt.

I am now retired and don't pay any monthly fees for health care. When I turn 65 I will pay $2 for each prescription. I just pay my "higher" taxes. I don't mind and love Canada, as do all my friends here. We all shake our heads at Americans who don't want a single payer health care. A poll a few years ago designated Tommy Douglas (Keifer Sutherland's granddad) the Greatest Canadian. He helped get Canada on single payer health care in the 60s.

The American's tried to put our health care system on the table for NAFTA but Canadians were highly opposed to it. We all feel health care is a human right not a for profit commodity.

[go west young man]

11. So sorry to hear of your loss.

I lived in Canada for a short time and loved the health care I received. In America I have twice been denied by an HMO and Insurance company. I was misdiagnosed here and the HMO refused to cover it when I went out of service area for proper treatment. I find it strange that Americans complain about taxes so much but they actually pay an extra tax when they pay for insurance plans compared to other countries. At least in the other countries they are guaranteed healthcare whereas in America they may have insurance but there is a good chance it won't pay. It's surreal here. And the poorest Americans rally against their own opportunity for healthcare! What fools! Yet they will give anything for another useless missle. The chance's of them being killed in a terrorist act is nearly zero. Yet the chances of them dying due to natural causes, old age or disease is nearly 100 percent. So where do they put their dollars? Into the military. They desearve a national Darwin Award. They literally vote to eliminate themselves from the planet. And let's not forget how much they love their Jesus! Silly hypocrites. Sorry for the rant. But when I read about someone like you who has endured so much and has had a first hand experince with both systems and has to endure fools in her own family it get's my blood going. Your truly a trooper.

[go west young man]

13. One other thing.

I have a racist father who hates Obama. He has a disease called Padget's disease that stem cell research could help cure yet he voted for Bush in 2004. I still can't wrap my head around that one. He is literally against curing his own disease.

[scentopine]

3. us health care is the best just like our banking system...

so say the many health care and banking industry benefactors who serve in US Congress.

[Enthusiast]

22. Zactly. nt

[Oldtimeralso]

46. But Just Remember

The Banking industry insures its money with the FDIC (partially funded by the government)so it is better than the Healthcare industry.

Which would you rather have the Government (that should provide for the "common good")controlling your healthcare or private industry (that only cares about the good of the shareholder).

I would rather see my money in the hands of the Government than the Robber Barons of the 21st Century.

[Chisox08]

4. We're number 16 we're number 16

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Oh wait that isn't a good thing. Out of the 16 developed nations that we were stacked up to we came in dead last. At least we are still number one at insane profits insurance companies. We are also number one for people suffering and dieing because they don't have health insurance.

[fascisthunter]

5. the investor class doesn't give a shit

as long as they get their cut.

[Downwinder]

6. A pretty normal response from a spoiled brat to a failing grade.

Lashing out, denial. See if the report card gets home or lost on the way. If it gets home it will probably be, "teacher doesn't like me," or "the test was all wrong."

[hay rick]

12. It all started when the dog ate our homework.

Not enough grown ups here.

[man4allcats]

7. "gobsmacked?"

Must be a Canadian thing. ;-)

[Bragi]

14. More a British word, I guess

I spend a fair bit of time in the UK and Ireland, where the word is commonly used. I suppose I should have used a more U.S.-familiar word here (like "astounded") but what the heck...

[enlightenment]

24. Gob = face

smacked = self-explanatory.

It describes that sensation that passes astonishment but doesn't quite reach 'bang head on wall' very well, actually! :)

[Downwinder]

29. Gee, I thought it was like "pudding in the face."

[enlightenment]

43. Nah - 'gob' is slang for

mouth (or face as a whole, depending on usage) - gobsmacked leans more toward face, "shut yer gob" obviously refers to the mouth.

It comes from the Gaelic:
nm. g.v. guib; pl. guib, beak, bill of a bird

[WriteDown]

8. And Sweden far outranks Canada. nt

[Oregone]

20. Far? Grade A vs B?

This is something that always annoyed me about the WHO rankings. While Canada lagged most of the industrialized nations, it is lightyears ahead of the US. I few placements in rankings doesn't really highlight the stark differences is judged by a solid performance grade.

[WriteDown]

21. If the US has a choice though, it should look at the best...

Not 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

[Oregone]

25. Perhaps, but it should also look at what is the easiest/quickest to transition to

And single-payer would work very effectively, almost overnight, with the existing health delivery system in the US. And the simple reality is, it is less of a political shift to (simply socializing insurance in this industry isn't, historically speaking, out of the political history of the US). Its far more plausible and practical than most repeatedly state.

Ive said over and over that single-payer is really a centrist middle-ground. You cut expenses 40%, cut bankruptcy from medical problems 100% and cut deaths from not being insured 100% immediately. Once you take such a small step that brings about such dramatic results, a country may be better positioned to look at solutions beyond socializing insurance.

[WriteDown]

26. I am of the opinion that we'll get one shot at this...

and should go for the best. Difference of opinion though.

[Oregone]

27. Yeah, but to be contrarian, maybe they have the "best" society

Implying that perhaps the US would reject this system, or be incapable of pulling it off as efficiently. Who knows.

I also try to weigh what is possible and plausible against pipe-dreams. Extending Medicare to everyone upon the pre-established infrastructure would being about maximum results for very little effort (besides the political challenge). When you start talking about the political challenge, who knows what is possible beyond mandated private insurance.

[WriteDown]

28. I would have to disagree...

there is a reason that medicare is not accepted by many docs in the US. No money and they're cutting it even further. The resistance from docs and nurses would be immeasurable. I think the US could pull off a Swedish system, but who knows.

[Oregone]

30. "The resistance from docs and nurses would be immeasurable"

So? They'll get over it. These guys did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Doctors%27_Strike

You might also be surprised on how many docs & nurses actually support single-payer these days

[WriteDown]

31. I've always said that docs should make no more than 100K

a year, so I totally agree with that. BUT!!!... those that have paid 100K for education and are just getting out or nurses like my youngest sister who just finished school and have large debt loads probably won't "get over it." As soon as doctors get wind of any pay cuts, that support drops to near 0. A lot of Canadian doctors migrate to the US for the increased wages. I have a feeling we'd experience the same phenomenom.

[Oregone]

34. Doctors can make a fine living on negotiated rates

One of the specialists Im seeing here in Victoria said he used to operate in Seattle for the last few years where some particular operation would fetch him around $1000 each time. They could probably do 3 of these an hour (but in reality, they mix up it up with other operations). Now, being that he migrated back to Canada, he says he gets paid $80 bucks a procedure through the government MSP (takes no more than 15 minutes max). Well, with my math, making $250 an hour isn't going to leave these people destitute. Canadian doctors drive fine cars, live in huge homes, and have a high standard of living. When is enough, enough?

[WriteDown]

37. I have 3 or 4 friends in my inner circle...

who are doctors. They are all making upwards of 300K a year as surgeons or owning their own specialized practice (urology and dermatology). They would consider any cuts to be unacceptable. I can "partly" understand though. One has 5 young children and all have mortgages that would blow you away.

[Oregone]

40. "One has 5 young children and all have mortgages that would blow you away"

Ah, so a sick nation has to foot the bill for their preposterous standard of living. Hey, don't blame us if they stepped over the line of ridiculousness. :)

[WriteDown]

42. You're preaching to the choir....

They went into medicine specifically for that lifestyle though and that is probably the worst part of it.

[Enthusiast]

35. There wouldn't be cuts if

medicare enrolled someone besides the elderly and disabled. This is something that goes unsaid. Medicare efficiency would jump right up there on a level playing field.

[WriteDown]

36. It would?

So payments would automatically increase? By what mechanism?

[Enthusiast]

38. Costs would be lower per average enrollee

and funding sources would be traditional or increased. Same as with private insurance.

[WriteDown]

39. But by what mechanism?

Its not automatic.

[Enthusiast]

33. You said it, Oregone! nt

[LanternWaste]

53. I think the U.S. should look at an amalgam...

I think the U.S. should look at an amalgam of the top half, rather than concentrating on simply one system.

[BREMPRO]

9. I'll tell you why. If you make several trillion dollars a year off the backs of sick people

you (big insurance and pharma co's) have a t0n of money to send up a smoke screen with advertising, lobbying, misinformation campaigns, push polling, news media buys (time and people). Add to that corporate avalanche of profit protecting spin the loud and proud liberty wing of the American public who, despite all evidence to the contrary, believe we are number one in everything. They are brainwashed by the former into believing that the true motive of health care reform is to create a "socialist" nation. Then there are the majority of people who are "satisfied" with their current coverage(because they've not had to use it in a crisis yet). We also have "islands of excellence" like cancer care that draws people from around the world for treatment- the right wing point to this as an example of our great system, and ignores the fact that we have twice the expense with poor outcome and 50 million uninsured.

Add it all up and VOILA! You get the appearance of a nation that thinks everything is fine with health care despite all objective evidence to the contrary. Trust me, the appearance is false. The majority of americans DO want and demand substantial health care reform including a public option (64%)

[Bragi]

15. An additional factor

A Canadian TV reporter last week mentioned in a column how Americans may actually get their overall impression of their health care system less from their actual exposure to it, and more from what they see on TV medical dramas. I thought it was an interesting theory.

Here's the top of that column:



More hospital high jinks and handsome fellas: Why medical TV drama makes Obama's health-care plan harder to sell

Today, I put it to you that a central problem in the attempt by President Barack Obama to sell his health-care reform plan to Americans is the proliferation of medical dramas on U.S. network TV. All those medical shows are reassuring fantasies about the brilliance of the U.S. system.

Man, oh man, but American viewers love their hospital shows. Every year, it seems, ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox venture back into the hospital/doctor/nurse genre because, well, these medical shows are darn popular. There is always room for a new hit about hospital high jinks.

I also put it to you that most American TV viewers believe that these glossy medical shows serve as advertisements for their medical system. They don't see them as soap operas or as absurd confections designed to titillate. They actually believe them. They need to believe them. In facing possible change, many Americans are, metaphorically speaking, terrified that their medical system will change from the glossy sexiness of ER and Grey's Anatomy to the drab reality of such British shows as Casualty and Doc Martin.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/more-hospital-high-jinks-and-handsome-fellas/article1297503/

That assessment has the ring of at least some truth to it.

- B

[BREMPRO]

19. "ding" yes, i've always been suspicious of the this-

The idealized vision of our health care system is perpetuated by these shows, and I'm sure there are advertiser angled editorial decision not to show a more accurate reflection- like for instance thousands showing up in stadiums for free care because they can't afford insurance, making us look like a third world country with thousands of uninsured and long wait times in the emergency rooms. This is a good insight.

[Enthusiast]

32. What an excellent post, BREMPRO!

You have it!

This society is living with a lit stick of dynamite in their hand. The county's real health care crisis is looming. Maybe the GOP and corporate advocates can shove the blame onto President Obama or some other, as yet, unknown Democrat.

[BREMPRO]

45. Thanks. I see the problem, but fixing it is a more daunting challege...n/t

[kster]

41. You forgot, arrest Single Payer supporters that want a seat at the table

table, then VIOLA! you have the perfect smoke screen.

[kster]

44. You forgot, arrest Single Payer supporters that want a seat at the

table then VIOLA! you have the perfect smoke screen.


K&R...

[BREMPRO]

47. forgot the most important factor!

The buying of influence in Congress by the insurance and drug industries. Millions of dollars to "help" congress make policy and "help" them get re-elected. What we need is publicly financed elections so they can vote what's best for the people without being beholden to corporate money.

[gula]

49. Thank you

Only a radical change in US election financing rules will bring about change.

[Tim01]

10. This is exactly the kind of info that the American people need to hear about. nt

[lovuian]

16. Don't worry our system has to change

its getting to be where do we spend our money
Military or Healthcare

both are like viruses eating away at the heart until soon the country will be dead

[Blue_Tires]

17. ttt

[TrogL]

18. Our Conservative government's policies have severely affected our health care

[marshall]

23. It would be interesting to factor demographics into the equation

Having traveled to Japan and spent some time there, the demographics is vastly different than the US or even Canada.

[dmosh42]

48. The US serves the wealthiest first....

It's a great system if you're Bill Gates, and other billionaires, who amount to a 1% of the population. However, they pay a smaller share of taxes, don't fight in time of war, and pretty much do only what's in their interests.

[Bonn1997]

50. Why doesn't President Obama ever talk about this or the WHO ratings?

That's what infuriates me

[sabrina 1]

51. The reason you hear, mostly rightwingers and their mouth-pieces

in the media claim against all the evidence, that the US Health-care system is the best in the world, is simple, they lie.

There is a huge amount of funding to push the lies and for a long time, this was an issue that was rarely even discussed. The ignorance of the system is beyond belief. Eg, I tried to argue a few years ago with some rightwingers who claimed that 'no one in America goes without health-care' that this is not true. Their argument was that no one could be refused treatment if they went to the ER. They were completely convinced that if people did that, the treatment was free. The fact is, it is not only not free, the bills you get after an ER visit are often higher than if you had coverage.

But they refused to even listen. Same thing when they are told that people who are sick often cannot even get coverage. I don't know how to get through to these people, but now that the topic is no longer taboo in the media, people are beginning to slowly learn the truth. However, the media does not educate viewers, they simply talk about the politics of the issue.

By the time Americans learn the truth, the Insurance Industry will have the bill they want, with the help of those who will be hurt the most by it. And it will be decades before we have an opportunity like this again. They are counting on the incredible ignorance, and xenophobia of Americans to push through a bill that will not only save, but increase their profits.

[daleo]

52. Sure Canada has better health care

But can it destroy the planet 100 times over with H-bombs? What good is health care if you can't destroy the planet with H-bombs?

[Doctor_J]

54. Hate radio and Cable "news"

when those are obliterated (literally or figuratively), we the people will get our country back. OTOH, as long as Fox News is on the air, we will remain a 3rd-world country.