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rmp yellow (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:10 PM Original message |
Flu Nightmare: In Severe Pandemic, Officials Ponder Disconnecting Ventilators From Some Patients |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:13 PM Response to Original message |
1. Well, shit, WE are just citizens. What do we have to say in the weighty |
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bbinacan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:16 PM Response to Reply #1 |
6. These guidlelines were |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:17 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. No fuckin shit? So THAT makes them RIGHT. Join the RW GOP |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:29 PM Response to Reply #8 |
19. Deleted sub-thread |
bbinacan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:14 PM Response to Original message |
2. That is just fucked up. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:44 PM Response to Reply #2 |
36. And how do you distribute those ventilators? How do you predict with precision |
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nebenaube (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:01 PM Response to Reply #36 |
116. Simple... |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:09 PM Response to Reply #116 |
123. How many do you buy when you don't know how big the pandemic will be? |
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primavera (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 06:58 PM Response to Reply #123 |
167. No, of course it's not that simple |
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MadMaddie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-25-09 08:07 PM Response to Reply #36 |
173. Then the planning should be underway for tent cities |
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Mojorabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 04:29 PM Response to Reply #2 |
166. It takes skilled people to run those ventilators |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:14 PM Response to Original message |
3. It's impossible to guess how many ventilators might be needed, or how to |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:16 PM Response to Reply #3 |
7. Yes, ABSOLUTELY Kill the elderly! KILL the UNPRODUCTIVES! |
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rmp yellow (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:25 PM Response to Reply #7 |
14. I think they'd target those who wouldn't improve. Not the elderly |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:33 PM Response to Reply #14 |
22. For all the above....It's great to be so young that you have a clear vision |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:46 PM Response to Reply #22 |
39. Get a grip. n/t |
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Chemisse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 04:15 AM Response to Reply #22 |
150. If there was a shortage in a hospital and your child lay there dying, |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 04:55 AM Response to Reply #22 |
152. Ask a friend to slap you. Now. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:25 PM Response to Reply #7 |
15. That is not what I said, as you know. If someone is already dying from a |
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virgogal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:37 PM Response to Reply #15 |
24. God,that's awful. I'm old and have talked to my family, my doctor,and had the legal papers |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:48 PM Response to Reply #24 |
42. The problem was that the woman's grandchildren |
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virgogal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:10 PM Response to Reply #42 |
76. Awful situation to be in. I had a DNR on my mom,who died at |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:21 PM Response to Reply #42 |
90. It is hard to let go |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:13 PM Response to Reply #90 |
124. It was always hard for me to imagine that this is what the woman would have wanted. |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:23 PM Response to Reply #15 |
93. And that's why my grandfather has a living will and DNR |
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mamaleah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 04:51 AM Response to Reply #15 |
151. If the patient or family has a DNR, fine. Otherwise it is not yours or the governements decision |
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bbinacan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:19 PM Response to Reply #3 |
10. What? |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:38 PM Response to Reply #10 |
25. Who said that? Why do people love to make these leaps? |
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Ruby the Liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:15 PM Response to Original message |
4. TERRA!! |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:15 PM Response to Original message |
5. Scare,...tactics? Anyone? |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:17 PM Response to Original message |
9. It's called triage. It's how limited medical resources are allocated during emergencies. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:19 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. Yes, Triage with age- and future promise of productivity discrimination |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:28 PM Response to Reply #11 |
17. Do you think all older people have advanced Alzheimers? They don't. |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:29 PM Response to Reply #11 |
20. You've completely misunderstood the concept |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:37 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Actually, as a former public health officer I haven't missed a thing |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:41 PM Response to Reply #23 |
30. I assume you think the Terry Schiavos in the country should all be given |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:43 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. Your making unwarranted assumptions, and it's more personal opinion |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:51 PM Response to Reply #32 |
46. So what is your personal opinion? If there was a shortage, should a Terry Schiavo |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:54 PM Response to Reply #46 |
51. Shiavo is really a cross between a red-herring and a straw-man argument |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:11 PM Response to Reply #51 |
80. Wrong. Terry Schiavo was a real human being, and there are real human |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:15 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Yes, but trying to exploit her case as a lever in an argument |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:02 PM Response to Reply #84 |
117. Why? Her kind of case is EXACTLY what the OP is about. She was a person |
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Regret My New Name (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:01 PM Response to Reply #117 |
134. Answering your question turthfully will make heads explode. |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:42 PM Response to Reply #23 |
31. Perhaps if you'd ever worked in hands on health care |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:46 PM Response to Reply #31 |
38. Oh, I HAVE NO DOUBT that such decisions are made everyday |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:55 PM Response to Reply #38 |
55. Of course triage is fair. When I come to the hospital with a child |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:59 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. You are so FULL OF IT, give me something other than a strawman |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:02 PM Response to Reply #59 |
64. Are you sober? You're not making sense. n/t |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:03 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. And you are making arguments with foregone conclusions |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:07 PM Response to Reply #65 |
71. I'm asking questions that you refuse to answer. Terry Schiavo, remember her? |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:11 PM Response to Reply #71 |
78. Terry Shiavo is a red herring. I get it that you don't get that. |
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Hugabear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:33 PM Response to Reply #78 |
131. How exactly is it red herring? |
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Electric Monk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:03 PM Response to Reply #59 |
66. Guess what? You and everybody you know are going to die |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:06 PM Response to Reply #66 |
70. Yes, so I should die SOONER??????????????????? |
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Electric Monk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:14 PM Response to Reply #70 |
83. I sense panic. DON'T PANIC! |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:19 PM Response to Reply #83 |
88. I had H1N1 two weeks ago, I just got the confirmation today, I'm not panicked |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:24 PM Response to Reply #88 |
94. It's not young vs old |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:25 PM Response to Reply #94 |
96. Sure it is. I'm sure that makes you more comfortable. |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:26 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. I think you need to look up what triage is |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:31 PM Response to Reply #97 |
100. Hey, I know ALL about triage. Because it is an old concept |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:38 PM Response to Reply #100 |
105. So then what's your solution? |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:51 PM Response to Reply #105 |
110. People who have been committed to life-support should be allowed |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:54 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. This is about extreme circumstances in the first place. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:03 PM Response to Reply #112 |
119. They are talking about AFTER a person has been triaged once |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:19 PM Response to Reply #110 |
128. First come, first served? That would mean the person with the broken arm |
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Hugabear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:26 PM Response to Reply #128 |
130. Exactly. I can just see people dying in emergency rooms while nurses tend to runny noses |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:36 PM Response to Reply #130 |
137. Yes, while old people on ventilators are kicked off to make them available |
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Hugabear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:24 PM Response to Reply #96 |
129. As usual, you provide nothing whatsoever of any substance |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:46 PM Response to Reply #129 |
141. Triage has nothing to do with REMOVING people from life support |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:17 PM Response to Reply #88 |
126. If it was between me and a healthy child, I think the child deserves |
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Regret My New Name (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:03 PM Response to Reply #59 |
135. Pointing out that resources are not unlimited is not a strawman. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:37 PM Response to Reply #135 |
138. Kicking someone off life-support for someone with 'more to offer' aint fuckn triage |
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Regret My New Name (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-25-09 02:30 PM Response to Reply #138 |
171. So how would you handle a sitation... |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:04 PM Response to Reply #38 |
68. Life isn't a movie |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:09 PM Response to Reply #68 |
74. True, triage is done based on the best interests of someone |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:43 PM Response to Reply #23 |
34. What would be your solution? nt |
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Hugabear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:17 PM Response to Reply #23 |
127. Way to exagerate and totally miss the fucking point |
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jwirr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:02 PM Response to Reply #20 |
118. Triage has been used in war time so it is not a new thing. When there |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:43 PM Response to Reply #118 |
140. Removing people from life-support isn't part of triage. |
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Electric Monk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:50 PM Response to Reply #140 |
143. "Someone who has been placed on a ventilator was made a solemn commitment." Indefinitely? |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:39 PM Response to Reply #11 |
27. You're being hysterical |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:40 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. You're calling names, too. So in an irrational presentation who the fuck wins? |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:52 PM Response to Reply #28 |
47. I was making an observation, not calling names |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:55 PM Response to Reply #47 |
53. Sure you were |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:57 PM Response to Reply #28 |
56. Once again, you refuse to answer perfectly reasonable questions. n/t |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:00 PM Response to Reply #56 |
62. So you say. |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:41 PM Response to Reply #11 |
29. That's how triage always works in a time of scarcity. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:55 PM Response to Reply #29 |
113. NO it is NOT |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:39 PM Response to Reply #113 |
132. "Typically" does not equal what happens in a goddamned emergency. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:34 PM Response to Reply #132 |
136. A pandemic of a flu that can't be distinguished from a mild cold |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:42 PM Response to Reply #136 |
139. Oh ffs. You fail thinking forever. Bye. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 11:47 PM Response to Reply #139 |
142. Bye bye |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 04:59 AM Response to Reply #136 |
153. Okay, now you've made me laugh. |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:43 PM Response to Reply #11 |
33. Speak for yourself. I am over 50 and am NOT suspicious of federal health |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:50 PM Response to Reply #33 |
45. Yes, that's your opinion. I appreciate your holding it, but |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:19 PM Response to Reply #11 |
87. What do you think doctors currently do with organ transplants? nt |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #87 |
92. I think that, mostly, the organ transplants to people with access to healthcare |
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JDPriestly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 02:32 AM Response to Reply #11 |
149. Doctors will make these decisions. They won't make them based on age and |
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bbinacan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:20 PM Response to Reply #9 |
12. And welcome |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:45 PM Response to Reply #12 |
37. I don't want family members and loud whiners making medical decisions in |
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bbinacan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:55 PM Response to Reply #37 |
52. I think it is |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:23 PM Response to Original message |
13. Seems reasonable -- if I'm going to die anyway and my ventilator could help |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:28 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. The problem with that is that it is solipsistic, why should what you would want |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:33 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. I think you should talk to the families of more patients with advanced Alzheimer's. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:39 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. Do family members REALLY speak of the interest of their |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:46 PM Response to Reply #26 |
40. How's this? |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:48 PM Response to Reply #40 |
41. One instance does not a CASE make. |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:18 PM Response to Reply #41 |
86. My mom and her sisters are all in their 80s |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 02:26 AM Response to Reply #86 |
148. I agree. The elderly people I know all have a much greater fear of developing |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 02:22 AM Response to Reply #41 |
147. You're generalizing from your experience. Others are generalizing from their own.n/t |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:55 PM Response to Reply #26 |
54. My father had Parkinson's dementia -- symptoms almost identical to |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:00 PM Response to Reply #54 |
61. Sorry for your guilt, but it is just more personal anecdote. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:05 PM Response to Reply #61 |
69. And it is just as valuable as your opinion. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:13 PM Response to Reply #69 |
82. But I'm not stating an opinion other than reflection on the nature |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:11 PM Response to Reply #61 |
79. Yes, but I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who experienced this and |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:24 PM Response to Reply #79 |
95. Well, you wouldn't necessarily know it if you were |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:00 PM Response to Reply #26 |
63. I know many families through |
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pitohui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 11:29 AM Response to Reply #21 |
163. thank you pnwmom |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:48 PM Response to Reply #16 |
43. Okay, I'll reword it. If I, gateley, am terminally ill and my ventilator can be used |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:52 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. Again, a personal choice is not an argument for general policy |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:07 PM Response to Reply #48 |
72. Surely it's not hard to grasp that I am only speaking for myself - how much |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:30 PM Response to Reply #72 |
99. It becomes a policy because an authority imposes it on you |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:05 PM Response to Reply #99 |
120. Yeah. WOW! What are you planning on doing to see that it doesn't happen? nt |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:35 PM Response to Reply #48 |
103. So tell, us, what do you think the policy should be? |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:52 PM Response to Reply #103 |
111. see #110 |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:29 PM Response to Reply #13 |
18. Me, too. n/t |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:10 PM Response to Reply #18 |
75. I think it's just you and me, pnwmom. Hopefully this policy if it actually |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:13 PM Response to Reply #75 |
81. Deleted message |
LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:51 PM Response to Reply #81 |
133. Again? |
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elocs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:44 PM Response to Original message |
35. Anybody see anything wrong with getting people scared shitless and worked up |
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murray hill farm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:49 PM Response to Original message |
44. The plan is reasonable. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:58 PM Response to Reply #44 |
58. That is ONLY your personal opinion |
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murray hill farm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:18 PM Response to Reply #58 |
85. Funny... |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:45 PM Response to Reply #85 |
109. Nope |
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murray hill farm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:01 PM Response to Reply #109 |
115. And you, of course.... |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:06 PM Response to Reply #115 |
121. I'm arguing that the argument supporting death panels |
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excess_3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:52 PM Response to Original message |
49. who are the voting members of these death panels? |
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MidwestTransplant (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:53 PM Response to Original message |
50. This is an Obama plan to socilize medicine, kill old people and set up prison camps for Glen Beck |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:58 PM Response to Original message |
57. There are not enough of a certain type of ventilator for the estimates of those who need them. |
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rmp yellow (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:03 PM Response to Reply #57 |
67. Perhaps people would be willing to pay a tax in order to raise funds for the ventilatorsr |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:09 PM Response to Reply #67 |
73. It's not just ventilators. That would be too easy. |
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Liberty Belle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:59 PM Response to Original message |
60. God forbid they could just buy more ventilators? |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:10 PM Response to Reply #60 |
77. That wouldn't solve the problem. Our whole medical system could be |
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hedgehog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #77 |
91. I was talking about a similar problem with my husband this morning. |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:21 PM Response to Original message |
89. It's triage |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:29 PM Response to Reply #89 |
98. So it has a name, and it has a purpose, that makes it RIGHT? |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:33 PM Response to Reply #98 |
101. Let's just have the magical unicorn fairies bestow infinite medical resources on everyone! |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:37 PM Response to Reply #98 |
104. Okay, so what do they do? |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:40 PM Response to Reply #98 |
106. Just for curiousity's sake, |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:59 PM Response to Reply #106 |
114. That is a change of subject. |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:07 PM Response to Reply #114 |
122. Go back and read your own post |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:14 PM Response to Reply #122 |
125. Yes, as a general alternative to arguing to put people to death because health workers are in short |
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truthisfreedom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 12:14 AM Response to Reply #125 |
144. Since both of those are true, reality has to be addressed. No amount of shrillness will |
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thelordofhell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:34 PM Response to Original message |
102. Would you rather have a government plan for disaster contingencies.... |
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McCamy Taylor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:42 PM Response to Original message |
107. Is this real or made up by the "death panel" people? Hospitals prioritize all the time. |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:44 PM Response to Reply #107 |
108. I wonder that as well |
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cherish44 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 12:52 AM Response to Original message |
145. Call me cynical but this is realism to me |
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progressivebydesign (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 01:01 AM Response to Original message |
146. it's already a pandemic.. do you mean EPIDEMIC? n/t |
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rmp yellow (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 05:23 AM Response to Reply #146 |
154. Not sure. What's the difference? |
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triguy46 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 08:54 PM Response to Reply #154 |
169. "Pandemic" has no relation to severity: |
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Blandocyte (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 06:23 AM Response to Original message |
155. I hope the filthy rich are stocking up on ventilators |
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DallasNE (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 06:32 AM Response to Original message |
156. Who Will Be The First Republican |
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Robb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 08:09 AM Response to Original message |
157. I guess I'm a little baffled as to how this is "news." |
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rmp yellow (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 08:54 AM Response to Reply #157 |
158. You can begin your education here |
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Robb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 09:35 AM Response to Reply #158 |
159. You seem educated on Pro Publica and DU |
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rmp yellow (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 10:41 AM Response to Reply #159 |
161. "Anyone who read pandemic plans" |
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Robb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 12:47 PM Response to Reply #161 |
164. I would never argue against informing people of anything |
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Oak2004 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Sep-26-09 01:00 AM Response to Reply #161 |
174. I read the New York plans, and was very satisfied by them |
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Hekate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 10:30 AM Response to Original message |
160. Triage is a medical concept well-known in battlefield situations |
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pitohui (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 11:23 AM Response to Original message |
162. there are some silly people in this world |
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Hekate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 12:49 PM Response to Reply #162 |
165. amen |
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triguy46 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 08:52 PM Response to Original message |
168. This is in an extreme, e.g. 1918 pandemic |
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transeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-24-09 09:07 PM Response to Original message |
170. Necessary planning, that's all |
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Fire_Medic_Dave (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-25-09 08:01 PM Response to Original message |
172. We did buy bunches of them. |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Sat May 04th 2024, 10:22 AM Response to Original message |
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