Seasonal flu shot may increase H1N1 risk

[spotbird]

Source: cbcnews.ca

Preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu, CBC News has learned.

...

It's important to validate the information to make sure it's not just a fluke, and that the observation is confirmed elsewhere such as in the Southern Hemisphere, which just completed its seasonal flu season, Low added.

Four Canadian studies involved about 2,000 people in Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia and Alberta, sources told CBC News. Researchers found people who had received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to get sick with the H1N1 virus.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/23/flu-shots-h1n1-seasonal.html

---

There are so many unknowns.

[bluestateguy]

1. Hypothesis

People who get the regular flu vaccination become more careless in their personal hygiene habits (like getting lax about hand washing, etc.), thereby making them more susceptible to H1N1.

Just a thought.

[Xipe Totec]

3. Hypothesis 2

People who are more suceptible to any kind of flu (asthmatics, elderly, etc.) are vaccinated in greater numbers than people who are less suceptible to the flu.

[spotbird]

13. That's it,

but it isn't how it will be read.

[aquart]

25. No. Not in this case.

We find the elderly less likely to get the swine flu.

Does the article have the age breakdown?

[lostnfound]

30. Hypothesis 4

While visiting the doctor's office to get the flu shot, they are exposed to cases of swine flu.

[Haole Girl]

34. That, or they might be contracting H1N1 at the clinics or doctor's offices?

:shrug:

[spotbird]

4. Anything is possible

Maybe people who get the shot are more susceptible to illness, so they catch h1n1 more quickly as well.

[stray cat]

24. Its so refreshing to see posts from people who think!

:hi: and that goes for some of the other comments below as well.

[McCamy Taylor]

28. Hypothesis 3

Infection with influenza provokes a higher antibody response and therefore a more active cross over immune response to H1N1 than vaccination. Note that measles vaccine immunity wanes with time putting people at risk for measles. If you have the disease, you develop lifelong immunity.

Hypothesis 3 1/2: The influenza (dead virus) vaccine does not contain as many antigens as the live virus influenza A. The antibodies that form to the live virus, being more numerous, may provide a better chance of cross reactivity to the new strain.

[SlipperySlope]

45. Hand washing doesn't really help stop influenza

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/24/hand.washing.helpful/

[elocs]

2. What to do, what to do, what to do? I am paralyzed with fear and doubt.

I think I'll do the same thing I've done every year with great success.

[IndianaGreen]

6. I would take the regular seasonal flu shot

I am older, and people in my generation have partial immunity to swine flu for some reason.

[spotbird]

8. The comment was a snark.

but the Canadian article suggests that if you're older, it's wise to get the seasonal vaccine.

[elocs]

9. Well, you know, I've never, ever done that. How do I know when I am older?

Although as far as I understand with getting older is that there is a lot of it going around.

[spotbird]

7. I'm pretty sure my 18 year old has it now

He was fine this am and now he's coughing his lungs out, which is why I was reading about it. It's going around here.

Everything known so far is that the illness isn't worse than a normal flu.

[midnight]

33. That is what I have been reading too. Make sure he drinks lots

of fluids. My doc. has an amazing cough syrup with codeine that works wonders. I have only been that sick twice,thank goodness, but if he is uncomfortable ask his doctor for something good for that cough.

[dr_aswan]

29. .

[Prometheus Bound]

35. Yes, me too. Can't sleep at night wondering, wondering, figuring the odds

- shot or no shot
- which shot, all shots?
- how much tamiflu to stock
- which type of mask to wear each morning and will it match the colour my shirt

Dear me, dear me, the stress

[kimmerspixelated]

36. OMFG folks, you're falling into the trap of the SF terra!

Educate yourself, about what YOU can do to build your immunity. Have some good antivirals on hand like Oil of Oregano, Elderberry Syrup, the list goes on. And if you don't believe in that- VIT D3 and ZINC and C in larger doses will go a very long way!

[Prometheus Bound]

48. I was being sarcastic kimmer. Haven't had the flu or cold in 16 years.

And no flu shots, which usually seem to be for the wrong flu anyway.

[kimmerspixelated]

50. Oh, sorry!

Cheers!

[ShortnFiery]

43. It's too late for me, but should I follow through with getting my 15 y.o. vaccinated next week?

Now I'm having second thoughts. :(

[panader0]

5. All shots increase the likelyhood of getting the disease

whatever it is. Shots are (I think) a watered down version of the disease. Way back, when I was a vegetarian, and traveled overseas, I refused to take the shots (thyphoid, tetanus, diptheria, whatever). No flu shots for me.

[Ian David]

12. Good. Let Natural Selection take it's course. Good luck. n/t

[TheWatcher]

47. Indeed. You'd be a very good start to the process.

[kestrel91316]

15. Wrong. Immunizations DECREASE the risk of the disease involve

and/or decrease the symptoms if infection occurs. Which is the ENTIRE point of immunization.

How do you think we have managed to control rabies?? And canine distemper?? And feline panleukopenia?? And feline leukemia virus??? And equine and bovine and ovine diseases too numerous to count???

Aaacckkkkk, teh stoopid. It burns.

[Ian David]

18. Come on. Don't tell him that.

I'm hoping the anti-vaxers will all die off by spring.

[tammywammy]

46. LOL! n/t

[Lisa0825]

19. It really, really really really burns!

Wow, that was a doozy full of woo!

Shots increase the chance.... that's why there is so much polio going around these days.... :eyes:

[kimmerspixelated]

39. Read about the true origins of Polio and get back with me.

[Lisa0825]

49. woo

woo woo woo woo woo.



woo.




:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Great display of ignorance.

[Fiendish Thingy]

22. The flu shots contain DEAD elements of the virus

not a "watered down" version of the virus; this allows your body to recognize the virus and build up an immunity without you actually getting sick.

[aquart]

26. And they let you back into the country? Oh, why?

[kimmerspixelated]

37. Exactly!

[BreweryYardRat]

44. Wrong. And you're damn lucky you didn't get yourself killed from a stupid stunt like that.

You got a death wish, ya ignorant schmuck? Because both of those diseases -- quickly fatal and easy to contract -- are examples of WHY we vaccinate.

Here, let me give you a brief lecture so you don't get yourself killed somewhere down the line.

I'm no expert on the subject, but I know the basics.

There are two methods of producing vaccines:

Dead virus vaccine: Exactly what it sounds like. They kill a bunch of viruses with chemicals (don't worry, a dosage low enough to kill viruses is nowhere near strong enough to harm humans), suck the mix into a syringe, and then inject it into you. Your immune system uses antibodies to analyze viruses -- dead or alive. Then they adapt to prevent the virus from bonding with various cells (usually red blood cells) and using the cells' material to make more viruses. Then the white blood cells come in to destroy the virus itself. Your antibodies then "recognize" that particular family of viruses, so they don't waste any time (the time you'd spend being sick the first time you caught a live virus) adapting to it in the future. Antibodies investigate and imprison, white blood cells execute.

Live virus vaccine: Not quite as clear-cut, but still pretty simple. This is what you were thinking of when you posted, but you didn't quite understand the concept. These vaccines use weak close cousins of the diseases they treat, not the actual disease. These 'cousins' are close enough that your antibodies will recognize the 'family' and adapt to defeat anything from that 'family,' but distant enough that they don't have the same effects as more severe diseases in the 'family.' They expose you to the weak virus, and you get a little sick for a few days while your body fights it off. Then you're immune to that 'family' of viruses, so that the next time you're exposed to a virus from that 'family' which is actually dangerous.

Example: One of the earliest vaccinations for smallpox was a 'live' vaccine. People were vaccinated for smallpox by being infected with its close cousin, cowpox. Smallpox used to kill 1 in 3 of the people who got it, and usually slagged survivors' faces with massive scars that were caused by sores filling with pus and then bursting under the building pressure. Imagine the worst acne scars you ever saw in your life...then make them worse. Cowpox (which has similar but much milder effects, and the sores generally appear only on the hands) kills AT MOST 1 in 1,000,000. It's probably less than that, and then only because those poor souls have something wrong with their immune systems.

Mutation: Over time, viruses can mutate, but it's a slow process. This is why some dead virus vaccines require a booster shot every 5 to 10 years, but that's really more of a "better safe than sorry" measure. Your body could Cold and flu viruses are the only viruses (so far as I know) that can mutate fast enough for antibodies to lose effectiveness against them within a year or less.

Bacteria: You can't get vaccinated against bacteria. They mutate much faster than viruses do. We can treat bacterial infections with antibiotics, but we can't prevent them yet.

AIDS: Before you ask some dumb question like "if the process is so simple, why hasn't anyone come up with a cure for AIDS yet," the HIV virus which causes AIDS is so deadly (and hard to combat) because while most viruses reproduce by infecting red blood cells, the HIV virus infects white blood cells -- and while it's lurking in a white blood cell, antibodies can't locate it. Eventually, there are so many individual HIV viruses in the blood that they infect and destroy white blood cells faster than your body can replace them. That's Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome -- AIDS for short. Then other viruses, bacteria, and fungi are free to multiply without any resistance...and kill you.

Look, people who don't understand how vaccines work have been nervous about the concept since the beginning. Go read the wikipedia entry for "cowpox" sometime. It has a digitized copy of a newspaper cartoon from 1802, which was apparently commissioned by an anti-vaccine group of the time.

...And yet, somehow, millions of our ancestors were vaccinated with cowpox without coming to harm.

Furthermore, this isn't the 1800s -- we have tests and standards today to make sure vaccines (and the mediums used to provide them) don't have harmful side effects.

[kimmerspixelated]

51. Are you sure?

"we have standards to make sure vaccines don't have harmful side effects"

I'm sorry. That's just false. There are many documented deaths and debilating side effects from vaccines, and many lawsuits as well, although the lawsuits will cease due to some Bush administration laws. How handy for Big Pharma! No responsibility!

[Ian David]

10. Correlation does not imply causality. n/t

[spotbird]

11. Which is why they don't wan this out.

Weaker people are more inclined to get flu shots, so they are more likely to get the swine flu.

Healthy people don't bother, and can fight off the virus.


It's one possibility.

[truedelphi]

14. Very good point. n/t

[ShortnFiery]

41. Exactly! In addition, in information is has NOT been tested scientifically ... no controlled study.

Don't panic folks. This preliminary finding should not have been published because it's merely correlational ... not scientifically tested.

"This is some evidence that has been floated. It hasn't been validated yet, it's very preliminary," cautioned Dr. Don Low, microbiologist-in-chief at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto.

[onehandle]

16. nt. nt

[Generator]

17. Yes in fact the unknown unknowns outnumber the knowns

by five to one. Rumsfeld is that you? HA. Of course I'm so smug-never had the flu shot-probably will be dead by spring.

[debunkthelies]

21. Here is a Link

For more information that you won't find on MSM ...www.healthfreedomusa.org
Personally I would prefer to take my chances with the flu.:eyes:

[HuckleB]

27. Freedom!

Now that is a hilarious propaganda site, aimed at making sure that some people can still sell snake oil.

[midnight]

32. It is always good to read other information. This is what I read at the link you provided.

Despite that, the Department of Defense, Governor after Governor and employer after employer are making these untested vaccines mandatory even while the President and Secretary Sebelius of Health and Human Services intone solemnly that vaccinations will be “voluntary”, defining “voluntary” as one option of a pair of options which offer you the unsafe, untested, unnecessary and uninsurable vaccine, all liability for which both the government and the manufacturers have been relieve of in a convenient legislative and regulatory pirouette. The other option is involuntary internment or incarceration, as the public documents from Iowa, Florida, North Carolina and other states makes clear is already being prepared for you. Indeed, “vaccine refusers” in Massachusetts may, under a pending law, be liable to fines of $1000 per day for refusing to be vaccinated AND jailed for up to 30 days

If this flu vaccine is so good, why is the response so bad. That is, if you might, want to forgo the flu vaccine.

Thanks for the link.

[kimmerspixelated]

42. Excellent question.

Health Fascism is on the rise.

[kimmerspixelated]

40. DINGDINGDING!

Touche' My friend!

[Historic NY]

23. I know when I've gotten a shot I've got the flu..my Dr. keeps pushing it.

[Blandocyte]

31. So NOW ya tell me... got the shot last week.

Guess I'll have to get the H1N1 shot, too. Hopefully that won't increase my chances of contracting some other disorder.

[ShortnFiery]

38. Lovely. Thanks CBS.

:puke: