AP: FACT CHECK: Health coverage for illegal immigrants (is explicitly prohibited)

[steven johnson]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON — Rep. Joe Wilson is wrong.
In his speech to Congress Wednesday, President Barack Obama said the changes to health care that he's proposing "would not apply to those who are here illegally."

That prompted Wilson, a South Carolina Republican, to shout "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber. Wilson later apologized for the outburst, but he didn't back down from his claim.

THE FACTS: The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage.




Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gVVujKcSD5hoS9sYwghNh3Xqmf1gD9AKNDUO4

---

OK, JOE, IT SEEMS YOU ARE THE LIAR!!!

(sorry for shouting)

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. "

Congress: Joe Wilson's outburst

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

2. The fact that Joe is the liar appears to have gone unnoticed by the media.....

let's rec this way up!

[KansDem]

17. "Honor among liars?"

:shrug:

[goclark]

20. M$M is soo silent yet they quickly put out the "news"

of the Coast Guards "bang,bang,bang."

Seems like they could have done a little research and said, " Wilson LIED."

Maybe I missed it? :shrug:

[RufusTFirefly]

3. What a shock!

Did any sane person actually believe that Wilson was right?

[Roland99]

4. Breaking news! Water found to be wet! Film at 11!

[kirby]

5. Here is how the game was played...

The Republicans wanted to show they were 'tough on immigration', so they introduced amendments in the committee markup to prohibit federal dollars on illegal alien health coverage. The Democrats saw this as just another grandstanding attempt and voted against it--twice, stating that is was unnecessary because it is already prohibited (same with the federal funding of abortions). The Republicans such as Joe Wilson use the fact that an amendment that was redundant and was voted down means it is not prohibited.

This would be like someone voting against a law to prohibit killing someone by strangulation with a shamwow on the grounds that murder is already illegal being accused of supporting murder.

[WriteDown]

8. You sure about that? Here's another take....

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS201604+10-Sep-2009+PRN20090910

[WriteDown]

9. delete, wrong spot..

[pampango]

13. Unfortunately, it's largely the take of FAIR the anti-immigration group

that the SPLC categorizes as a hate group. Kind of like asking the KKK to comment on including nonwhites in health care reform.

[WriteDown]

14. The truth of the matter though...

is that although healthcare won't specifically help illegal immigrants, no one is going to be asking for ID's to get healthcare.

[pampango]

15. I'm not sure that verification procedures have to be in the legislation.

I worked for Social Security for 15 years. The basic Social Security legislation mandated things like the retirement age, benefit calculation formula, disability severity, marital relationship duration requirements, etc. and some were changed from time to time.

However, the procedures for verifying eligibility and benefit amounts were developed by the Administration. They were not part of the legislation passed by Congress, but were developed by the enforcement agency (SSA) in the executive branch.

You may be right that "no one is going to be asking for ID's to get healthcare", but that won't be because verification procedure weren't included in the legislation. It will be because the executive department that enforces health care programs (HHS?) didn't develop verification procedures (we sure couldn't have gotten away with that at SSA) or because medical personnel in the field don't follow the procedures handed down by HHS - from a lack of training or compassion or just too busy.

[WriteDown]

23. Would you be in favor of having everyone having to produce

picture ID's in order to receive healthcare?

[RobinA]

24. This is Two Different Issues

Having insurance and getting care are not the same thing. Under any program, including the present one, if you show up at the ER gushing blood your immediate needs will be met. In the second instance, I would imagine that even without a verification of citizenship, you can't get very far without a social security number. I worked with a Korean woman who may or may not have been legal, she had dementia and couldn't remember her alleged deceased serviceman husband's name. Needless to say, we could neither find nor could she remember a social security number. She may very well have been legally married to this Korean war vet, but we had no way of knowing. Needless no say, she can get NO services beyond rudimentary without the SS number.

[WriteDown]

25. Truthfully....

I have no clue, but I imagine that people will be covered under the public option regardless if they have ID or not. Its not a big issue to me, but we should recognize the reality of the matter.

[laughingliberal]

16. Here's what I found in the bill

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
44
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States



FAIR is listed as a hate group by Southern Poverty Law Center. Their complaint here seems to be that there is no explicit verification of citizenship in the bill. Nit-picking if you ask me. To say that it's a lie or misleading for the President to say illegal immigrants would not be covered is disingeonuous at best.

[Hansel]

27. Also wrong in a major way.

"The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

Obama is not proposing HR 3200 or any other House or Senate bill. They even state this in the article:

"Perhaps the reforms that President Obama advocates would not cover illegal aliens, but those are not the reforms currently under consideration by Congress," commented Dan Stein, president of FAIR.

But use the headline:

President Obama Misleads Public on Health Care for Illegal Aliens...

Now exacting who is doing the misleading?

The author should take what Obama said at face value since they have no bill from him on which to dispute that facts. The article sets up strawmen and knocks them down in order to say Obama is misleading the public. It's really quite stunning how bad this reporting is and smacks of having an agenda. It's like Obama saying his favorite color is blue and Reuters calling him a liar.

[earcandle]

6. So what do we do with them when they get sick? Kill them? Put them in concentration camps?

Dumb shit argument. 

Please.... this is so petty crap. 

Get a grip, become an American who has some integrity and
civility,
not to mention ability to have logical arguments?  

[DCKit]

7. "Facts? Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts."

Seriously, these folks will say anything hoping that, being the first to sling fecal matter, some of will stick. Thus far, it's working. Other than lies and fear, what did BushCo* have?

Tell a lie, repeat it often and "Some People" (and all M$M sources) will believe it - even worse, they'll propagate the lie for you. For free.

[WriteDown]

10. Basically the way it will work is that it will not explicitly..

provide services for illegal immigrants, but no one is going to be asking for ID's.

[Ian David]

11. Stupid Republican racists are taking the wrong strategy.

Instead of being acting racist like they're doing now, they SHOULD be shouting to the largest growing voting demographic that the Democrat's bill discriminates against Hispanics.

I am SO GLAD the Republicans are more concerned about appealing to their racist base than they are in actually winning elections now.

[Vinca]

12. Words don't matter, facts don't matter. To quote a Republican,

"LIAR." I've concluded they must be pushing national identification cards for everyone since that would be the only way to identify "demon illegal aliens." So . . . the Republicans stand for carrying your card at all times so the authorities can check them.

[Festivito]

18. How much more does a RWer want to pay in order to deny health care to the undocumented?

Health care should cost about 3K/yr per capita. In order to deny health care based on anything, anything, we need people at counters, at desks, as supervisors and as everything in between up to CEOs.

In Canada, they pay $3500 per capita since they have to make up cards that keep Americans from getting free health care without paying taxes that pay for that health care. That seems to cost about $500 per capita in Canada.

How much do we want to spend to keep Mexicans from getting health care on one hand, and then tax ourselves extra like the Canadians do in order to keep the Mexicans from using our services without paying into it.

How much?

[Igel]

19. Eh.

Silly verbiage. One really shouldn't confuse actual reality with verbally constructed reality.

The facts: Federal statutes both prohibit the hiring of foreign nationals in the United States illegally and because Federal statutes require that a new employee provide documentation to verify that he is in the country legally. Therefore, no illegal immigrants are working in the United States.

Another fact: In Houston, Texas, all drivers must have four things by law. First, they must have a drivers license. Second, they must have automobile insurance. Third, the vehicle must be registered. Fourth, the vehicle must bear a sticker showing that it has passed a safety inspection in the last 12 months. Therefore, all cars on the road are driven by properly licensed and insured drivers, and are both registered and safe.

Both of the conclusions (the bits after "therefore") are utterly false, and since I know they're false if I were to present them as true I would be lying.

So it is with the health care bill.

Fact: The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Therefore, no illegal immigrant will receive subsidized care or benefit from the House version of the bill. (Of course, there is more than one House version of the health care bill, so let's assume it's HB 3200 they're talking about; it doesn't mention the Senate bill. But let's play.)

Illegal immigrants will continue to use emergency rooms. Second, many illegal immigrants will be in the strange position of not having been hired legally, but by virtue of being here qualify for either subsidized health insurance, having their employer find that it's more cost effective to buy them insurance, or their employer will pay a fine on their behalf (depending on the details of the proposal in question). Some will continue to sign up for Medicaid and state-run services, and most likely will, if their IDs aren't checked, find a way into the system until they're discovered. Now, some illegal immigrants do pay income taxes--they're passing to that extent as residents--and the result will be that if they're income is low enough they'll get refundable tax credits. The system is broken, the health care proposals will not fix the system (nor should it), however it will be placed on top of a broken system and, consequently display the same signs of being broken.

But to say that since the law prohibits or will prohibit X, X most definitely will never happen because it simply cannot happen is, well, utterly absurd.

[Cha]

21. Joe the Heckler Wilson is Exposed for the Liar

he is..and the spoiled little brat whose only way to communicate is through tantrums.:silly:x(

[high density]

22. Apparently some at teh AP do not read their organization's own reporting

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32797636

Health negotiators focus on illegal immigrants

Health care negotiators in the Senate pressed for a way to ensure that illegal immigrants can't get access to government-funded insurance, a contentious issue now front and center after a Republican congressman's outburst during President Barack Obama's speech.

Yes, the AP is reporting this as if Democrats are fighting to cover illegals. :eyes:

[Hansel]

26. Good. But this still misses the point.

Obama was talking about "his" bill not the House bill. Even if the House bill did explicitly say that the legislation would pay for "illegal immigrants" that still would not make Obama a liar.

Obama hasn't presented a written bill, he has only verbalized what his bill includes. So Wilson needed to take his word for whatever he was saying.

Basically the conversation goes like this. Obama: "No illegal aliens will be covered by my bill." Wilson: "You're a liar! I have a completely different bill that you did not write and have not said you endorse to back my claim up."

There are really some crack reporters out there.