Man with shotgun arrested near Capitol during address

[kpete]

Source: The Hill


Man with shotgun arrested near Capitol during address
By Jordy Yager - 09/10/09 12:39 PM ET

A man with a shotgun was arrested on Wednesday night by U.S. Capitol Police while attempting to gain access to Capitol grounds as President Barack Obama began to deliver his speech to a joint session on healthcare.

Capitol Police stopped Joshua Bowman, 28, of Falls Church, Va., at approximately 8 p.m. on Wednesday night several blocks away from the Capitol as he made a “failed attempt to gain access to barricade,” a spokeswoman said.

After consenting to an administrative search of his vehicle, a shotgun in its case with ammunition was found in the vehicle’s trunk. He was transported to Capitol Police headquarters where he was processed and charged with carrying an unregistered firearm and possessing unregistered ammunition.

While the arrest was made by Capitol Police officers, the department was working in conjunction with U.S. Secret Service on Wednesday night as members of the White House and nearly the full body of Congress attended Obama’s speech.

Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/news/58139-man-with-shotgun-arrested-outside-speech

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. What is 'unregistered ammunition'? nt

[TheWraith]

2. The District has a near total ban on firearms.

They've lost in court on it in the past, but they keep trying to elude the court rulings by creating different rules. So this probably has something to do with that.

[damntexdem]

6. Anything that works.

Maybe someday the nation, and its courts, will come to their senses.

[TheWraith]

11. It doesn't work. DC has one of the highest crime rates you'll find.

Same for Chicago, which also has a ban on guns, and LA for which they're effectively banned. Upwards of 90% of people who commit crimes involving a gun are already legally prohibited from owning or using a firearm (mostly by reason of prior conviction). Prohibiting people from legally owning guns doesn't prevent anybody who wants to illegally own a gun.

Also, the courts aren't turning around on this any time soon--quite the opposite, since the second amendment is likely going to be incorporated against the states pretty soon.

[Dogtown]

17. It serves a purpose

in that it provides a reason to lock up a potential assassin during the time of immediate danger, even if the charges must be dropped later or are lost in court.

It's a mechanism, a short-cut. Not saying it's right, but I do understand the tactical reason for using the charge.

[TheWraith]

23. The Secret Service has that authority regardless of local laws.

The security zone around the President has it's own rules not related to local regs. That's why the White House said they were cool with people displaying weapons outside Obama events--the secure zone is still secure.

[Dogtown]

52. Clear, but

I believe it was Capitol Police that made the collar, and I don't believe that they assume SS authority. even under the conditions extent.

[MindPilot]

3. So I'm gonna guess it wasn't THAT Joshua Bowman...

[nolabear]

12. Apropos of nothing, does that woman dip snuff?

My old great grandma did, and she kept her snoose tucked in her lip just that way. Makes me a little nauseous even thinking about it.

And now back to your regularly scheduled crazy person. Thank heaven for the Secret Service!

[MineralMan]

4. Falls Church, VA

Why does that ring a bell? Ah...I remember. It's the home of The Liberty Committee.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=The_Liberty_Committee

[onenote]

15. FWIW: I 'm from Falls Chruch too!

a place that gave Obama 65-70 percent of its votes in 2008.

[MineralMan]

19. I found that info, too. I was just trying to figure out why I knew

of Falls Church. It was the Liberty Committee.

[Dappleganger]

5. Dumbass

He had his chance in Arizona, why didn't he take it then?

/s/

[apnu]

7. What a moron for several reasons.

1) Don't bring a gun when the Secret Service is around. They don't like it and get pissy about it. This isn't an issue of right or wrong or an exercise in some Constitutional powers. If you want to own arms, fine, but don't bring them around the President, that's just asking for trouble, literaly.

2) If you have a firearm (full disclosure: I don't own one, nor do I want to own one) then register it legally. This isn't a matter of whether or not there should be laws covering gun ownership, but that its the law to register your firearm PERIOD. If one does not like the law, that's fine, but that does not mean its moral or ethical to break laws simply because you disagree with them. There are lots of laws I don't like, but I'm not going around breaking them to prove a point, or ignoring them because I feel like it.

3) If you're driving around with a firearm, you better damn well have a good reason to do so. Say going to and from a firing range, or hunting, or a show. Any other reason to have one in your car or with in reach, when its not part of your job to have a weapon, is only for one purpose and one purpose alone -- to use it. Unless you intend to use your weapon, there is no other point, I can think of, to have it with in easy reach.

He's an idiot and deserves to be harassed by the cops. They did the right thing, stopped the guy and searched his car. If he had a bouquet of roses in the trunk I bet they would have let him go.

[Statistical]

9. #1 sounds good, #2 most locations don't have registration, #3 I don't need a reason. n/t

[apnu]

10. As for #2 and #3

#2 where I live you do have to register your weapon and have a license. That's in the 3rd largest city in America. I now NYC and LA also have gun laws, plus most other major population centers. That covers "most" Americans. I presume by "most" you're talking about physical space and not citizenry. Gun regulations are much more lax in rural areas, but most Americans do not live in rural areas. Even in the Republican suburbs of Chicago there is a host of gun laws in those towns and counties, and these Republican strong holds have a ton of gun nuts and Gucchi hunters. There is no way this guy wasn't aware of this common fact. Go to a city with a weapon, get stopped by the cops, and they're gonna talk to you about your gun, and if you are up to their laws, you're in trouble.

If I lived in Montana where some roads have no speed limit, does that mean its OK for me to drive at any speed on the highway in LA? No it doesn't I'm subject to local law, I may not like it, but I am still bound by it. Ignorance of the law does not excuse one from violation of a law.

#3 Legally, yes, but common sense will tell you that if you bring a firearm near the Capitol (never mind the President) the cops are gonna harass you. So, when deciding to get into your car, you do have a reason for bringing it. You intend to use it in some way. You many not intent to discharge it, but by possessing it in an area where its not going to be allowed (regardless of local law, the Secret Service trumps that any day) you are using it to prove a point because you made the conscious reason to pack the weapon before your journey. And you, like the fellow in the OP, must know that going anywhere near the Capitol with a weapon (except for law enforcement) will not be allowed. Ergo, you have a reason. You may not need the reason, but you have one none the less, and that's the thing the cops are going to look at.

The point to #3, and all of the reasons really, is the guy was asking for trouble. Carrying any firearm in that situation is guaranteed to provoke law enforcement, thus he went out of his way to be harassed by the law.

I like knives, I always carry one on my person at, nearly, all times. The one I carry, for the most part, is a Leatherman multi-tool and I frequently use the tool for a variety of things as I use it to fix computers, so I see it as part of my job to have one handy. I also have a collection of knives at home, some are for display, some are used for camping and some are used for sport -- I like to throw them. But, when I know I'm going somewhere that the knife is going to draw scrutiny, I leave it at home (such as going to a political rally or other function like visiting my Congressman's office) or I pack it away in my luggage if I'm traveling by air or train. Just because I can carry it, openly, with out license or registration in my local area, doesn't mean I'm going to all all times because I can. I don't need the harassment from the cops, its unproductive and benefits nobody.

[Statistical]

13. The three largest cities in US don't make up "most" = 50.01% of population.

7 most populated states
CA - state registration
TX - no state registration
NY - handgun registration only *
FL - no state registration
IL - no state registration *
PA - no state registration
OH - no state registration

Chicago and suburbs does require registration (at least until IL passes state pre-emption) however Chicago only makes up 25% of the state population.

* NYC registers also firearms.


As for #3. I already stated I wouldn't carry near the President. I do it out of respect for him and the men who work hard to protect him. However if I have a firearm with me, no where near the President, am in no secure area, and have committed no crime I owe the Police nothing.

"You may not need the reason, but you have one none the less, and that's the thing the cops are going to look at."

My reasons are my business, I don't need to give a cop a reason for anything if I have broken no crime.

My response to a cop asking why I have a firearm:
"Am I being detained officer?" If he answers yes (which they never do because it would be false arrest) then the next statement is I wish to contact my attorney and will answer no further questions. If the answer is no then I say "Since I am not being detained I will be leaving now".

Most of VA is pretty pro RKBA but the city of Norfolk is not. I was stopped for no reason and used that exact line. He decided to violate the civil rights of some less informed citizens.

[slackmaster]

26. California does not have registration for ordinary rifles and shotguns

Only for handguns, "assault weapons", and .50 BMG rifles.

[apnu]

59. I understand you wouldn't carry near the president

But my point still stands, there can be no way that man was traveling through DC, near the Capital and not know he was in some kind of zone. Therefore his decision to carry that day, in that area was a conscious one, stupid, but conscious.

My points about this guy's stupidity stands. I'm not arguing against guns, just saying if someone has them, they ought to be smart about it. This guy wasn't, and probably shouldn't have it. If he doesn't have the good sense to keep his gun away from the Capital and the President, then I'm willing to bet he lacks sense in other areas too.

As for state stats, thanks, I was unaware of them. Not being a gun owner, its not an area that I study. I thought, basically from the noise from the NRA, that there were many registration laws all over the place, if that's not the case, what are they hollering about all the time?

[slackmaster]

25. Los Angeles does not have any restrictive gun laws - California law preempts local laws

Handguns and "assault weapons" are registered in California, but ordinary rifles and shotguns are not.

Los Angeles does have a few ordinances concerning the sale of ammunition, but the Government Code of the state of California does not allow cities or counties to make up their own gun control laws.

Driving around with a cased, unloaded shotgun in the trunk of your car is perfectly legal in Los Angeles.

[apnu]

60. Thanks for the correction

I've only been to CA once in my life and that was to San Francisco. I presumed the LA area had some restrictive gun ordinances (be they registration, licensing, or possession regulations) because the rates of violence in LA have been high.

Having said that, its odd that certain types of firearms have registration laws, and others do not. That seems very strange to me. But then local laws are often strange.

For example, when I lived in NY I knew a guy at an Army Navy store that sold butterfly knives, I asked him why he sold them when they're illegal to posses, he told me simply, its not illegal to sell them, or own them, just illegal to possess them. Mainly because in the 70s NYC had serious handgun related violence and they clamped down on that enough that the gangsters, in the 80s, started cutting each other up with butterfly knives and nunchaku. Well the state, in their infinite wisdom, passed very restrictive possession laws for those two items, and swords as a result. Then he proceeded to show me the nunchaku he had for sale and his swords. The whole state is like that, all because of a bunch of punks in Queens, but that's how NY works. Something happens in the City, and the whole state has to pay for it, so strange.

Why have registration laws for a few types of firearms and not others? Isn't is just easier to either have all weapons registered or not? And I'm not going to get into a debate about registration, I personally think its pointless. But if there is going to be registration regulations, isn't it just easier and fair to have all firearms registered?

I wonder how many shotgun related crimes are committed in LA versus handgun or "assault weapon" crimes. I also wonder if hand gun crimes when down and shotgun crimes have gone up since the passage of handgun registration in LA. Knowing that would be interesting.

[frebrd]

8. From the title, I thought they meant he was _carrying_ the shotgun.....

and when did they start registering shotguns and ammunition?

:shrug:

[Statistical]

16. This is DC. They are a little over the top.

Not only is ammo registered you can only legally purchase ammo in a caliber for a firearm you own.

[TankLV]

21. Actually, DC is THE RATIONAL one here - the REST are OVER THE TOP!!!

The REST of the country would be BETTER OFF if it followed DC's example!!!

[TheWraith]

24. You really don't know what you're talking about.

For starters, DC's laws are unconstitutional. The Supreme Court unanimously declared that in DC vs. Heller. It's always enlightening to see who's willing to trash the Constitution the minute that it's on the other side of one of their pet peeves. Second, there's been no evidence over the last 40 years that more gun control results in reduced crime. DC had a TOTAL ban on all guns, legally owned or not, even just possessing them in your home for self defense. They still had an astronomical crime rate and plenty of people carrying illegally.

Banning guns works about as well as banning drugs does. People intent on engaging in a crime will still do so. But hey, let's keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pavulon]

53. Yep, most of dc is a shithole.. Unless you buy out

into nice areas you live in one of the most dangerous cities in the nation. Rich people happy in small expensive area, poor people fucked in shitty ghetto areas with high gun crime. Even though they are banned...How is that possible?

[Boku-Wa]

56. Probably because they can buy them in Maryland or Virginia.

[Pavulon]

57. Weed, crack, coke, hookers or guns?

finish up your drug and flesh ban before you bite off more than you can chew. In the time it takes hydro to go from seed to bud I could make an arsenal in my basement (as could any person with the correct background). I dont do that because it is illegal. However enact some stupid ban and people will.

[Boku-Wa]

61. I suggest you take a reading comprehension course. It'sobvious what I was

referring to.

[Pavulon]

71. which was???(nt)

[Boku-Wa]

72. Guess.

:puke: Pavulon

[Pavulon]

73. I guess weed. tasty illegal weed..(nt)

[Boku-Wa]

74. wrong again.

[benEzra]

70. AFAIK, the shotgun was unloaded, cased, and in the vehicle.

It is possible he was up to no good; it is also possible that he normally kept an unloaded shotgun in his truck and (due to profound dumbassery) either forgot it was there, or forgot that it wouldn't be legal in the District of Columbia. Hard to say, as having an unloaded, cased shotgun in the vehicle is legal where he's from.

I'd be interested in knowing his political affiliation, and what he had in mind. A shotgun is not a distance weapon, though; a deer rifle might be more suggestive of ill intent, I think.

[onehandle]

14. Keep it up, gun nuts.

And the collection list grows.

[TankLV]

22. Exactly - FUCKING GUN NUTS STRIKE AGAIN!!!

When will this country WISE UP!!!

[Pavulon]

54. One you finish your weed and hooker ban..The day I can no

longer find an ounce of weed and a hooker I will happily give up my rights. Get to work, head to your nearest street corner or dorm room.

Prohibition is a JOKE.

[liberal N proud]

18. These creeps are worried about legislation on guns but they don't respect

a little common sense on the use of them.

I few crazies WILL ruin it for those law abiding citizens who do use guns responsibly.


The other thing I fear with these wackos is one of them is going to be successful and take a shot at the President. I really fear for the lives of our leaders, Democrat or republican.

[Vidar]

20. I'm pleasantly surprised they arrested him.

[TankLV]

27. Man with gun arrested during Obama address

Source: Buffalo News & Associated Press

U.S. Capitol Police have arrested a Virginia man they say tried to get into a secure area near the Capitol with a gun in his car as the president gave his health care address to Congress.

Police spokeswoman Sgt. Kimberly Schneider said Thursday that 28-year-old Joshua Bowman of Falls Church, Va., was arrested around 8 p.m. Wednesday. Bowman's intentions were unclear, police said.

Schneider says Bowman approached a security checkpoint near the Cannon House Office Building in a 4-door Honda Civic and told officers he wanted to park.

Schneider said a shotgun and ammunition were found in Bowman's trunk. Bowman was charged with having an unregistered firearm and ammunition, she said.

Read more: http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/791049.html

---

"Bowman's intentions were unclear..."

Yeah - right - wonder why he BROUGHT LOAD WEAPONS TO AN OBAMA EVENT!!!

but wearing a fucking T-Shirt got you ARRESTED trying get into a bush* event for EIGHT YEARS!!!

[polichick]

28. They're gonna have to start throwing the book at these guys. nt

[libodem]

29. Is he getting a prize?

From Guano Bleckkk?

[ThePatriotHour]

30. Open The FEMA Camps!!!

The repugnantcan party has proven itself to be a kabal of ex-patriots who were Circumcised from America last November. Their actions and behaviors have become threatening to the stability of Our Great Nation.
ThePatriotHour (on YT) Declares that it is time to open the FEMA Camps!

[Joanne98]

42. YAY Hi Patriot Hour! i've been positing your videos .........

:hi:

You already have a fan club!

[goclark]

31. They are trully bold and don't seem to get in trouble.

[graywarrior]

32. Grrrrr

:mad:

[slackmaster]

33. The story does not say anything about the weapon being loaded

RIF

[Aristus]

40. Oh that makes it better...

I can just see: cops stop a guy trying to bring a suitcase nuke into the city. "But officers, the detonator is in my other bag! No harm done, right?" I'm sure that would mollify them... :eyes:

[slackmaster]

44. A cased, unloaded shotgun in the trunk of a car several blocks from the Capitol is not a threat

I'm glad the police caught the guy, but from the information presented it's possible that he simply forgot the weapon was in his car. There isn't any evidence yet that he intended to cause any harm.

Yes, the fact that it was unloaded, cased, and locked in the trunk of his car does make it better than if he had a loaded weapon in his immediate possession. It is not a de facto threat to anyone.

[get the red out]

34. I wonder what the radio was tuned to

Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, or Savage?

[slackmaster]

35. A Honda Civic driver?

Not likely.

[joeybee12]

36. Just exercising his second amnedment rights, nothing to see here...move along...

:sarcasm:

[pattmarty]

37. Was it Congressman Joe Wilson????????????

[Aristus]

38. Unregistered! You hear that, "law-abiding gun-owners"? Unregistered!

This guy does not play well with others. Go on; come to his defense..

...Go on...

[slackmaster]

45. There is no way to register a shotgun in Virginia

:hi:

[Xithras]

50. Virginia gun laws are irrelevant in DC

The guy was parking his car in downtown, which nixes the only protection that he had...a possible claim that he was transporting to a lawful event and venue. Virginia laws don't extend to DC. If DC law requires registration, and the guy transported his firearm into their jurisdiction without registering it first, then he broke the law.

Part of my family lives in Oregon. Part of my family lives in Nevada. If I borrow my dads AK47 from his house in Oregon (where it's legal) and take it to my sisters house in Nevada (where it's legal) I'm protected, even if I drive through California on the way (where the rifle is illegal to posess). If, however, I make a detour to San Francisco and I'm caught parking my car in the Financial District with the AK in the trunk, I'm going to spend some time behind bars. There's no reasonable argument as to why a legitimate state to state transport should involve a detour like that. Same goes for this guy, trying to park a block from the Capitol building. There are no shooting ranges in DC.

[Rebubula]

39. Though this guy may have bad intentions...

...I regularly shoot skeet and do so many times after work at a range in VA. This means that I travel into DC with an unloaded gun (ammo locked up as well) in my car.

I will wait to see how this story plays out before I pass judgment.

[Aristus]

41. They have a skeet-shooting range on Capitol Hill?

:shrug:

[jonestonesusa]

43. And, you travel around the U.S. Capitol with unregistered guns?

Personally, I wouldn't begrudge fellow Dems a little outrage at this story and the general fact that armed threats to the President are more routine than ever at this point.

Or, instead, let's follow your reasoning and rename the Democratic Party the "Passive and Waiting for All the Facts Even When Provoked by Armed Wingnuts" Party. Maybe that description fits us better at this point.

[slackmaster]

47. Federal law protects people who travel with lawfully owned firearms

You may not be familiar with the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.

From the Wikipedia article (quick but reasonably accurate in this case):

"Safe passage" provision

One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one place to another for a shooting sports event or any other lawful activity cannot be arrested for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas) and the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, in a locked container.<5>

An example of this would be that someone driving from Virginia to a competition in Vermont with a locked hard case containing an unloaded handgun and a box of ammunition in the trunk could not be prosecuted in New Jersey or New York City for illegal possession of a handgun provided that they did not stop in New Jersey or New York for an extended period of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. You know better than to confront them with facts.

[BluDemocratGirl]

46. GOP (Gun Ordering Punks)!

[Aristus]

48. Welcome to DU, BluDemocratGirl!

I like your thinking... B-) :hi:

[IsItJustMe]

49. Undoubtedly a Faux news fan, inspired by the haters to go all radical on some socialist ass.

[applegrove]

58. I didn't see that story on the news today. Then again I didn't watch CNN for very long.

Very disturbing.

[AsahinaKimi]

62. Man With Gun Arrested Near Capitol During Obama Speech

Source: Huffington Post

WASHINGTON — U.S. Capitol Police have arrested a Virginia man they say tried to drive into a secure area near the Capitol with a shotgun and rifle in his car as the president gave his health care address to Congress.

Joshua Bowman, 28, of Falls Church, Va., was arrested around 8 p.m. Wednesday and charged with two counts of possession of an unregistered firearm and one count of unlawful possession of ammunition. Each carries a possible one-year jail sentence and $1,000 fine.

Bowman's intentions were unclear, said police spokeswoman Sgt. Kimberly Schneider, but the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington decided against prosecuting him on more serious charges, said spokesman Benjamin Friedman.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/10/josh-bowman-man-with-gun-_n_282397.html

---

It seems the wing nuts are getting bolder.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

63. And dumber -

the guy's from around here, and he should know what security - just the regular, everyday security - is like at the Capitol.

When the President is there, it's even thicker, of course, and this guy thought he'd get inside?

Man, he's 'way too stupid to be outside. In the slammer, where he won't hurt himself, or anyone else...........................

[elocs]

64. The date on this story is: 09/10/09 05:47 PM. I read this on DU hours ago.

So it is not Latest Breaking News.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4053450

[jobycom]

65. ooooo. Busted by the LBN cops.

:rofl: This is the funniest, most territorial forum on the Internet.

[elocs]

67. Well, there are rules here and since it is a privately owned forum we should try to follow them.

"2. Do not post duplicate topics about news events that have already been posted."

People here routinely post "news" over and over the day it happens and then the next 3 days, but there are specific rules about Latest Breaking News and they are not difficult to follow.

[AsahinaKimi]

66. oops! sorry

I am sure the mods will move it if, its not appropriate or delete it all together

[elocs]

68. No it is not 12 hours old, but it was posted at noon.

Here at DU you have to be very fast to get something that is really LBN and often there are multiple threads a minute apart.

[maddezmom]

69. duplicate topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4053450