ACT prognosis: 23% could earn C, at best, in first-year college courses

[Heidi]

Source: USA Today

Posted 2h 19m ago

Even as high school graduates in recent years have grown increasingly better prepared for college, too many members of the class of 2009 cannot adequately perform all of the academic skills they will need to succeed, a report says.

Just 23% of students, up from 22% last year, earned test scores suggesting they can earn at least a C in first-year college courses in English, math, reading and science, says the report, released today by the non-profit Iowa-based testing company ACT. It's based on scores of 1.48 million 2009 high school graduates who took the ACT's college entrance exam.

<snip>

For example, the report found:

•40% of students were not able to use the correct adverb or adjective form in a sentence, use the correct preposition in a phrase or make sure that the subject and verb agree in a sentence.

•30% were unable to evaluate the contribution that significant details make to a text as a whole.

•Nearly 40% could not solve multi-step problems involving fractions and percentages.



Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-08-19-act-college-prep_N.htm

[Adsos Letter]

1. This is not acceptable.

One of the most glaring things I have noticed in my college years is the poor written communication skills of many young people.

My discipline was/is History; even there the level of analytic writing in upper division is often discouraging.

Now I'm paranoid about whether or not I've composed this post well... :hide:

:hi:

[saigon68]

44. This is why goons like Palin get votes from the Morans

And why, Michael "Weiner" Savage is so popular

[Theobald]

52. Does that mean you voted for Palin?

Or are you a different kind of moron?

[saigon68]

61. Get real

[JCMach1]

2. I see NCLB is doing exactly what it was designed to do then...

If those things were not on the state tests, OF COURSE, students are not going to know them.

[Aviation Pro]

3. As I've lectured my children time and again.....

...fractions, fractions, fractions are the key to success in higher mathematics. They are the base foundation for algebra, geometry, trigonometry and calculus.

Fortunately, they got it.

[Heidi]

4. My dad taught advanced math early in his career. His ongoing lecture to me was:

"Create as many choices for yourself as you can. Strength in the language arts and history is great, but you'll have more choices in life if you also have an understanding of and appreciation for math and science."

I have both (leaning more to the language arts/history side, though), and he was correct, as are you. :hi:

[exboyfil]

6. My analogy is a little coarser

I tell them math and science = dollars. Both are interested in either being vets or doctors, and these are perfectly fine professions to pursue right now because the prep for them will extend to a bunch of different majors/professions. I also encourage their language skills and artistic development.

I live in a very good school district, and I still have many issues with our district. For one there is no expectation of Algebra in 8th grade. Really smart kids are doomed to repeat the same math for three years (6th-8th grade) if active intervention is not done. My soon to be 6th grader can already do most of the math in her sister's 7th grade book. My older girl jumped a math grade this year (from 7th grade math to 8th grade Algebra) primarily because of my intervention and her excellent math teacher in 7th grade. The big problem is at 6th grade, and I am afraid of a repeat for my 6th grader (to the point that I am planning to homeschool in that subject if I cannot get certain assurances from her teacher).

The biggest problem that my soon to be 8th grader has noticed is that a significant number of kids do not take school seriously. Our school does not have streaming in history, science, or English; and my daughter is frustrated by the amount of time spent on discipline issues (I can't even imagine what it must be like in school districts without the high percentage of professionals that we have in our district). Going away from streaming is the worst thing that we have done as a country in our public schools. Combine that with parents who don't care - a really good way to get the parents to offer the discipline necessary to at least allow others to learn is to suspend the children for a few days. Let the parents work on arranging child care - then maybe the kids will take things more seriously.

Another thing I don't like about my school district is K-6th, 7th-9th, 10th-12th. I would prefer to see K-5th, 6th-8th, and 9th-12th. My 6th grader should be doing what would be catergorized as 7th grade work in most of her subjects next year. She is not alone either. She easily reads and understands High School level books.

I was really amazed at how little my 7th grader read for class last year. They spent almost the entire year on The Outsiders. The teacher did not even think of cracking open Tom Sawyer (which I had promised my daughter was the standard book for the grade - both her and her sister have read it around 5th-6th grade).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I took college algebra for the second time a few years ago

(I was aiming for calculus, and my previous college algebra course had been too long ago).

In the middle of a class, one of the younger students leaned over to me and asked, "How do you divide fractions?"

Uh, I learned how in fourth grade.

[Kolesar]

5. Half of my classmates got Ds and Fs in their freshman year

Because they graded on a curve and wanted to flunk out most of the engineering students.

[exboyfil]

7. I found it really depends on the particular department in

teaching classes in Freshman engineering. My Calculus and Chemistry professors were some of the best lecturers that I have ever had. They were maestros. I cannot say the same for Freshman and Sophomore Physics which were easily the two worst classes I had in Engineering school at Purdue. They were so poorly taught that I thought it was to the point of criminal. I would have loved to see the Mechanical Engineering department take Physics I and the Electrical Engineering department take Physics II and teach them for their engineers. I don't think it was a case of trying to weed out students, but it was a case with the problem with tenure. Those profs did not want to be in the classroom. It was such a stark contrast when compared to Calculus and Chemistry (and it was not a matter of grades for me - I got Bs in Chemistry but As in Physics).

My mathematics preparation was inadequate for Calculus I (I did not have Precalculus in High School because of an idiotic placement decision in 7th grade). Because the lectures were so good it clicked about 3 weeks into the semester - if it had not then I would probably have washed out of Engineering school.

Of the three subjects which make up the core of Freshman engineering only Physics above was graded on a curve. The other was straight scale mostly with reasonable parameters and expectations. The Physics was on a curve because the Physics teachers did such a poor job explaining the material, and the students came out with an inferior understanding of what was needed to proceed forward (in particular it hurt me going into Statics in my Sophomore year).

[whoopingcrone]

9. a more likely reason

for flunking in "required" courses: the extra tuition gained from students having to repeat the class.

[exboyfil]

11. Also look at the different acceptance levels for AP credit

One of our public Universities offers to accept for both Freshman Biologies while another won't accept for either Biology. It really does not make sense since they readily accept the college courses between each University.

Also you absolutely have to take an English course in college - no matter how well you do on AP tests etc (this is the case for all three Universities). Talk about making sure the dollars flow to a particular department.

Anytime you have a tiered level to satisfy credit it is obvious they are trying to support a particular department (if you can satisfy a requirement with a General Math course but cannot satisfy that same requirement with Calculus you have a problem).

Actually flunking out an engineering major at the Freshman level can be counterproductive for the engineering department. Many switch to management after their traumatic Freshman year (saw it a lot as a Freshman). Of course those guys are probably making a whole lot more than me now.

[mike_c]

22. absolutely untrue....

I don't even know where to begin debunking this. For starters, many institutions (including mine) cap the number of times a student can attempt a course.

We're turning students away at the door. There is no need to manufacture remedial retention.

[enlightenment]

31. How about a few other reasons?

Failure to complete the assigned work at a level adequate to pass; failure to attend class; failure to pass assessments of progress (tests); failure to accept that plagiarism is an automatic 'F' . . .

and, ultimately, failure to understand that education is not equivalent to buying a latte at Starbucks. Tuition is not payment for a good grade, it is payment for for the opportunity to learn.


Edited to correct spelling.

[wickerwoman]

40. Most universities allow full time students to take 12-21 credits

They don't pay by the credit so the university isn't making any more money by having students take the class twice.

My department (English comp) bent over backwards to get students through the system offering unlimited free tutoring and three chances to pass the class. After the third time the students flunked the class they were *only* allowed to sign up for one class per semester, the writing class. So the university would actually lose money there by forcing a full time student to go to part time.

In four years, I never once had a student come to my office hours before the last week of class and then it was always "what can I do to pass this class? I have to pass this class!" My response: "get in a time machine, go back three months, sign up for tutoring, take the first few papers more seriously, actually read the comments on your returned work instead of taking one look at the grade and throwing it straight in the trash and *come to frickin' office hours*"

[One_Life_To_Give]

26. Northeastern used Physics to weed out the engineers

Freshman and Sophmore Physics classes were intended to weed out the Engineering Classes. Standardized Midterms and Finals with automatic fail percentages and graded on the curve.

[Puppyjive]

8. Are kids ready for college at 18?

I returned to college this year after a 25 year break. I went from c's, d's and F's to straight A's. The young people don't even attend class half of the time. I know, I was there. They can't write or spell and how can they possibly answer questions about life when they haven't experienced much of it? I'm getting my second chance with a whole lot of worldly experience that is helping me. You see, I enlisted in the Air Force when I was 22. I had not choice but to grow up. If you skip one of their classes, you are in big trouble. I recommend some sort of public service after high school for a few years. I am also not in debt.

[exboyfil]

10. Most do better after returning to college because they

take it more seriously. I think far more people are going to college than really should be going to college. Many of them would do better and be far happier learning a trade.

Given the amount of schooling it takes to be a Doctor or a Vet, I really don't see adding extra years to it. Many kids are completing their Freshman year while still in High School (even though the public schools do a poor job facilitating this approach). Don't hold those kids back - they have aspirations and limited dollars to complete their goals. It is better to come out at 22 and earn an extra 3 years of a professional's salary than to use those three years in near minimum wage work. The Armed services are an excellent thing to do after High School, and I am thankful for those willing to serve. In fact one of the career paths I have suggested for my daughters is the Army medical scholarships available for medical and vet school. They are a great way to avoid the crushing debt associated with those schools (especially vet school where your salary will make servicing that debt difficult).

[madmom]

20. You may be on to something here. My daughter started college right out of high school, she

hated it and her grades reflected that. She quit joined the dreaded Americorp, was there a couple years. She went back to college at 24 and did/is doing great. My son did not go to college at all, went into military. He now has a family BUT is starting college this fall at age 36. Don't know how well he'll do but he's excited and chomping at the bit for classes to start next week.

[greiner3]

12. My brother's kids go/went to;

oral sex university in Tulsa. 70% of the undergrads make honors at graduation. Not exactly, "Where all the children are above average," but you get the point. Home Schoolers insist that their kids score in the Lake Woebegone tradition but I find that claim ludicrous at best and self-serving in reality.

[Vinca]

13. That 23% is optimistic when you look at the dolts turning up

at health care town halls.

[Frank Cannon]

14. OMG... NFW!

LOL!

[JerseygirlCT]

32. That's what I was thinking

I guess I'm an old fogie, but I have to wonder whether the style of written communication most used by young people today has a negative impact on their ability to communicate properly in English.

Misspellings, grammatical errors, weird abbreviations... and no one is concerned about it.

While I understand the argument is that communication is a means toward an end, and if both parties understand, it might not matter, I don't agree. Little by little it starts to matter, and understanding degrades.

That said, my oldest has not found the move to college all that difficult, academically. But he also understands that we have some high expectations of the effort he is to put into it. That might help.

[Bossy Monkey]

15. Increasingly better? QED, USA Today n/t

[Haole Girl]

16. No child left behind...

most children average.

:-(

[NOW tense]

17. 20% of our population has 80% of the wealth.

You can draw a direct correlation between the two.

[DissedByBush]

18. How about we dump "Everybody gets to go to college"

Face the hard facts. Not everybody is college material. We would save a lot of money if only those kids capable of performing in college got to go.

Make it strict. No rich idiot kids just because dad's got money. No free ride for jocks just because they can throw a ball.

Either you are capable of the advanced academics or you don't get to go.

I knew some dumbing down was happening when I found I'd already done all the material in college MATH 107 in non-AP high school math.

[Heidi]

19. That's how it is in Switzerland to a great extent.

I would say that the majority of young people here don't pursue a university-level education, but for those who can get into university, undergrad education is free. I think it's fine that most young people here don't pursue a "higher" education because one can make a very good living by learning a skill; trade schools here also are free. Also, most kids in Switzerland begin traveling away from home when they're nine or 10 years old (overnight school trips) and are taking public transportation (bus, train, and/ferry) to school in elementary school, so there's not that yearning for the freedom that I, at least, experienced and university affords. :shrug:

[DissedByBush]

36. Germany has a two-track system

Around the time you start high school you go to a vocational or college track based on your demonstrated academic performance. There is a way for exceptional "late bloomers" to transfer to the college track.

But the vocational track is no slouch. You can go up to master craftsman if you are up to it. Germany still has the apprentice, journeyman, master setup.

[Posteritatis]

49. How hard is it for students to transfer between the two tracks?

I think I like the idea in general - and I imagine it does a lot to chip away at the idea of "vocational education" being a less worthy thing - but I was dead set on a fairly mundane technical IT sort of career preference until I had my first good history teacher in high school. (Now I've got an MA in it.)

[DissedByBush]

50. It's convoluted

And I really did simplify it quite a bit. Basically you can do it, but you are kind of having to prove your qualifications more and choices may be more restricted at the undergrad level. Your chances of getting in to a good university are pretty low. It is pretty complicated overall and varies by state.

On the vocational track it can be learning to be a brick layer all the way up to the equivalent of going to a prestigious school like Cal Poly. I have friends who graduated on the university track but chose to get applied engineering qualifications at one such school instead. They may not have a master's but I'll put them up against an MS in their subjects any day. But they had to be good enough to get accepted into those higher-level programs. I had another friend who, went to school until the 10th grade and then started his trade school for construction followed by an apprenticeship. He wasn't book smart, but he had talent and ambition so he is probably a master by now which would enable him to open his own business.

And the Gymnasium (straight university) track is tough. You're expected to be fluent in one secondary language (usually English) and proficient in another. A girlfriend I had was taking English as primary and Latin as secondary. Latin! Ancient Greek and Russian are options in some German states.

[fascisthunter]

56. it's a very effective system they have

and education is free

[HowHasItComeToThis]

21. REPUBLICS NEED CHAOS FOR THEIR VERY SURVIVAL

[Orsino]

23. While college isn't for everyone...

...that's not to say that it absolutely couldn't be, someday. For now, though, this story is telling us what we already knew: we're failing to educate far too many of our children.

[One_Life_To_Give]

27. What?

No more "10 Years of College down the drain"

[jody]

28. Agree, college is not for everyone. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. As a former college professor, I totally agree

My ideal school would have classic and newer award-winning children's literature as its main reading curriculum, would have a social studies curriculum that started out with studying the history and geography of their community, branching out to the state, the country, the Western Hemisphere, and the Eastern Hemisphere. Science would be tied to seasonal events and current events and would emphasize a lot of hands-on work and the gee whiz factor. No calculators would be allowed in math class, and math would be taught in traditional terms so that parents could help with homework. The curriculum would have room for music (every child would sing--there aren't as many truly tone deaf people as there are those who just never learned properly--and every child would learn a musical instrument), visual art, drama, basic cooking and housekeeping skills, basic shop and repair skills. I would also start a foreign language in third grade, but not by immersion unless there was a large number of native speakers of the target language in the community. Physical education would emphasize fitness activities like running, swimming, and cycling instead of team sports.

Everyone would take the same curriculum through ninth grade.

By that point, it would be clear who was academically talented and motivated and ready for college in the next two years and who wasn't. Those who were would move on to a college prep high school, where they would study all the college prerequisites at a high level: surveys of American and English literature, world literature, English composition and rhetoric, math through precalc, biology, chemistry, physics, a second foreign language, a recap of American and world history, civics, and economics. It would be a rigorous curriculum, but the most academically talented kids would thrive on it.

The rest would go on to some sort of vocational training of the type that really prepares people for skilled jobs.

If they decided at some later date that they had academic interests after all, they could take academic classes equivalent to the college prep high school at community college and then apply for a four-year college.

[XemaSab]

39. If calculators weren't allowed in math

I never would have graduated high school.

As it were, I barely made it through elementary school math.

I still need a calculator to do basic addition and subtraction, and I have taken math through calculus.

I think we should allow calculators much earlier in math class, instead of forcing kids to do hateful, useless tasks like memorizing the multiplication table and suffering through long division.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. I don't know---most people survived arithmetic classes before calculators

and knowing how to do multiplication and long division without a calculator lets you know when the calculator's result is "off," whether because of mis-entered numbers or a chip failure in the calculator.

Besides, what if you're caught without a calculator?

[Hugin]

54. A chip failure in the calculator! Oh, lawrdy! Is this something I should be worried about?

:scared:

Does it happen often?

[WriteDown]

55. Same as Japan...

Two-tier system.

[Psephos]

66. Yes, a thousand times, yes

We'd never force someone who can't throw a spiral pass to be on the football team. Never force someone with two left feet to dance. Never force someone who has nightmares about algebra to become a physicist. Never force someone who can't carry a tune to prepare for singing before live audiences.

Each of the talents I mentioned above depends upon a mental aptitude. Academic performance is likewise based on having the right constellation of aptitudes and temperaments suited to the demands of school.

The idiot judgment that vocational study is somehow inferior to academic study has caused extraordinary misery. It's not inferior, it's simply different. Thank God for the practical, handy, and skilled people of the world. If I had to remove either tradesmen or scholars from the world, I'd pick the scholars, because I know I would continue to stay warm, eat, have things to wear, a car and roads to drive it upon, and most of the other practical needs of life.

College for everyone has created astounding incentives for the academic/university complex to suck tens of thousands of dollars out of millions of people's wallets for four or more years, leaving the majority of those who attend up to their earlobes in debt at the very beginning of their adult lives.

It's immoral, disgraceful, and like all mass programs based on self-serving myths, plain stupid.

There. Rant over. ;)

[Hugin]

24. Mizshun Ackomplimented!

:patriot:

Hale Raygunomicals!

[robcon]

25. No news here, IMO.

"Just 23% of students, up from 22% last year, earned test scores suggesting they can earn at least a C in first-year college courses in English, math, reading and science, says the report, released today by the non-profit Iowa-based testing company ACT. It's based on scores of 1.48 million 2009 high school graduates who took the ACT's college entrance exam."

Ok, not everyone who applies to college can succeed at college at a "C" level or better. We need an anlysis like this to prove that???????

[XemaSab]

29. I'm taking two classes at the local JC

Both of my classes are full of 18 year olds.

We'll see how it goes for them.

[Deja Q]

30. I work my butt off for my classes and even try to defend Americans,

knowing that teachers say how many students show little desire or work ethic. I'm showing mine.

It's also avant-garde in a way, because my own naivety over how many Americans are failing makes me unaware of how severe the problem is, in America. But I can counter more offshoring excuses (product quality alone, Americans aren't the only illiterates in this world and we all know it's about monetary cost, not quality, to begin with - which explains modern day apathy. Chicken or the egg, which started first... probably the apathy, which I'm reluctant to say, because like teachers I too have seen similar patterns.)

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Hippo_Tron]

34. Heidi, while the skills of our high school graduates are of great concern...

Standardized tests such as the ACT are bullshit. They test nothing more than your ability to take such tests and simply serve as a way to reduce the workload for admissions committees.

[Heidi]

45. I did well on the ACT, but it was because I was well prepared to take the test.

I agree with you, Hippo_Tron.

[Doremus]

35. Oh yeah, dumbin' 'em down, aka NCLB

[old mark]

41. The reason so many of my boomers went to college was the draft -

better college than the service. Turned out I managed to make it to both, and honestly don't know which was worse.

mark

[No Elephants]

42. Not really sure how to assess this info in a vacuum.

Wasn't C once an "average" grade in college, the so-called "gentleman's C?" (since virtually no one else went to college then).

What perccentage of college students have gotten C's for, say, the last fifty years? What percent get A or B? D? F?

Inasmuch as there are four or five possible grades, is 23% for C really that shocking?

It's unfortunate that's it's up a percent from last year, of course, but that's only 1%.

All of us don't have the same book larnin' ability. No matter how great teachers are, or how hard we try, not all of us are going to make A grades in college in every subject. (Not to mention that our colleges could probably use an overhaul, too.

In other words, is this really alarming, or just pretty much the way things are and always have been and may always be?

:shrug:

[JeanGrey]

43. How sad is this.

[Posteritatis]

47. Since a C is supposed to be an *average* grade, I'm not sure how surprised I should be.. (nt)

[Hugin]

53. I'm surprised it took as many replies as it did before someone pointed that out.

I'm also surprised at the number of replies which advocate throwing out the lower 50% to bring the grade point average above a 'C'.

Didn't Eisenhower fall for that one once?

[Nikia]

62. Except that at many colleges a 2.0 is required for graduation

If many of those students don't improve, they may risk not getting a degree.

[Doctor_J]

48. Last year 50% of the VP candidates couldn't name the countries

that comprise North America. So ignorance is is not a guarantee of failure.

[old mark]

51. Heidi, I went back to college when I was in my late 40's. I was amazed

at how little I had to study - I knew most of what I was "learning" since before I even took classes - ended up with a B+ overall, and for some classes I never even bought the texts. It's all been dumbed down, and getting worse by the year, IMO...


mark

[AngryAmish]

57. Do you think 23% of the population can really do college level work?

Of course they can't. It is unfair to expect them to. IIRC, 23% of the population have IQs in the range of 89 and down. No matter how much you drill them they will not be able to do college work. They just lack the intellectual horsepower.

Better to train them in vocational skills so there will be jobs out there for them.

[kath]

58. Whoa. Distressing that a fair number of the replies here show the lack of reading comprehension and

numerical skills that the article is talking about.

Let me explain it slooooooowly, so that more can understand---

Only 23% (according to ACT scores) "earned test scores suggesting they can earn AT LEAST (emphasis mine) a C in first-year college courses in English, math, reading and science" -- PAY ATTENTION NOW -- this means that a whopping 77%- SEVENTY-SEVEN PERCENT - would be likely to get only **Ds or Fs** in first-year college courses.

The article did NOT say that 23% of students would be likely to get Cs. Being able to read for detail, such as important phrases like "at least", and being able to understand what those phrases/details mean, is a critical skill (related to what the article refers to as being able to "evaluate the contribution that significant details make to a text as a whole").

Again, ***77%*** of high school grads are felt to be ill-equipped to do college work, according to this report.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, surprise, surprise -- after doing a bit of poking around on the Intertubes, it appears that the so-called "journalist" at USA Today didn't exactly do a stellar job of summarizing the report from the ACT folks. She also was not very good at evaluating "the contribution that significant details make to a text as a whole" -- she left out the important detail that the 23% figure cited is the number of students that performed adequately in ALL FOUR SUBJECT AREAS:

"The percentage of graduates ready to earn at least a “C” or higher in first-year college courses in all four subject areas tested on the ACT—English, math, reading and science—increased from 22 percent in 2008 to 23 percent in 2009. This percentage meeting all four benchmarks remains higher than in 2005 and 2006 and is the same as in 2007..." http://act.org/news/releases/2009/crr.html

Just for grins, here's the breakdown by subject area:
"Lack of college readiness is again most evident in the areas of science and math. The findings show that only 28 percent of ACT-tested 2009 graduates (unchanged from 2008, up 2 percentage points from 2005) are ready for college-level biology, and just 42 percent (down 1 percentage point from 2008, up 1 percentage point from 2005) are ready for college-level algebra. In comparison, 67 percent (down 1 percentage point from 2008 and 2005) are ready for college-level English composition, while 53 percent (unchanged from 2008, up 1 percentage point from 2005) are ready for college-level social science."



The poor preparation in science is particularly distressing -- only 28% believed to be ready to take first-year Biology??? Yikes.


(stats are available for all states, from the act.org link above. No surprise that the fair (not!) state of Oklahoma is worse than the national average. It's particularly bad in math (33% versus 42% nationally) and science (25% vs 28%). The numbers for African-American students in OK are particularly horrifying. I'd say that a heck of a lot of students are being left behind. WAY behind. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of bowing down at the altar of standardized testing. But still...)

[surrealAmerican]

59. Good points. This is very poor journalism.

I was also under the impression that the ACT was not such an accurate predictor of college grades.
I also wonder if there aren't a growing number of states like Illinois, who now administer the ACT to all high school students, rather than just those who plan on attending college. This would tend to make thing look worse than in previous years, when only college-bound student took the test

[kath]

60. You're right (about increased # of test-takers). The full report, at act.org, addresses this issue:

http://act.org/news/releases/2009/crr.html

[Robb]

63. Journalists suck at math

Mostly. At least that's been my experience.

I worked for a small weekly that made it a point to do stories about the local district's ACT scores every year when they came out. The hand-wringing in that little office to make sense of the numbers was astounding. The district officials were impatient with us, and worked very hard to make sure we "got" what the numbers meant. And only half of that effort was self-serving spin/PR, the other half was authentic exasperation. :D

[Psephos]

65. So very, very true...

For an entertaining and instructive read on this, check out John Allen Paulos' book, A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper.

http://www.amazon.com/Mathematician-Reads-Newspaper-Allen-Paulos/dp/038548254X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250985927&sr=8-1

[mbee]

64. Unfortunately many who perform highly on ACT/SAT are

taught to take the test. Education for the most part in the US is seen as a way to make money not a way to improve society. I have seen very few people over my lifetime who want to apply themselves college educated or not, but they mostly want to puff up their egos. I guess that's why I frequent this website which thankfully seems to attract people who care about the planet.