Aide: Zelaya plane stopped at base with US troops

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Aug 15, 10:26 PM EDT
Aide: Zelaya plane stopped at base with US troops

By FREDDY CUEVAS
Associated Press Writer

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (AP) -- A top aide to Honduras' ousted president accused the United States of involvement in the coup, saying Saturday that the plane that flew Manuel Zelaya into exile stopped to refuel at an airfield where hundreds of U.S. troops are based.

Patricia Valle, the deputy foreign minister of the deposed government, said the Honduran military plane carrying Zelaya took off from the capital's Toncontin airport, then stopped for fuel at the Soto Cano air base before heading to Costa Rica. She said Zelaya did not get off the plane during the stop.

Soto Cano, also known as Palmerola, is a Honduran air base that houses at least 500 U.S. troops who conduct counter-narcotics operations and other missions in Central America.

Valle charged that the stop at Palmerola showed U.S. officials at some level were complicit in the June 28 coup, although she offered no evidence that American personnel at the base interacted with the Honduran military officials on the plane or that they even knew Zelaya was there.




Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_HONDURAS_COUP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-08-15-22-26-36

[hay rick]

1. No surprise here. nt

[roody]

2. This should have been news on Day 1.

[liberaltrucker]

3. I'm shocked, SHOCKED!

:sarcasm:

As much as I admire President Obama, in many
ways he's the new boss, same as the old boss.

:cry:

[Vidar]

4. I'm hardly surprised.

[truthisfreedom]

5. It would make sense if we had negotiated for his life. It would make me sick if we were complicit.

I'm probably sick.

[Peace Patriot]

11. I've toyed with that theory. My guess: both are true.

The US saved his life and is complicit in the coup. It has the stink of US complicity in Haiti--President Aristide not killed, but permanently disempowered and exiled. And I hope to God that the consequences to the Honduran people are not the same--and that this coup is overturned, and soon. I do think there is hope of that, considering the increased strength of the leftist leadership of Latin America, and their greatly enhanced cooperation with each other, through entities such as UNASUR (the South American "common market," whose very first act was to help repel the Bushwhack-instigated fascist coup in Bolivia last September), and ALBA (the Venezuela-organized local barter trade group).

Rightwing presidents such as Calderon in Mexico are also outraged by the Honduran coup. Their outrage may be insincere, but they feel obliged to express it, because their own people and the people of Latin America really are totally fed up with US interference in their region. Calderon won election by only a 0.05% margin, against leftist Amlo (in what many believe was a stolen election). He is under strong pressure from the left and has to prove himself a Latin American patriot in some way. This is an easy way for him to do it (while he connives to privatize Mexico's oil). It's interesting that, when Calderon accepted billions of US tax dollars from the Bushwhacks, for the corrupt, failed, murderous US "war on drugs," he specified that funds and operations must remain in Mexican control. He has also been strong in opposition to US Cuba policy (a popular position in Mexico, which was one of the first Latin American countries to oppose it), and--quite interesting--back in 2006, when Bush Jr. visited Mexico, Calderon publicly lectured Bush on the sovereignty of Latin American countries, using Venezuela as an example. I was very surprised by this, and it alerted me to the importance of the sovereignty issue across the political spectrum in Latin America.

This sentiment, which crosses political lines, and the new strength and organization of the left, may succeed, in the case of Honduras, in ways that were not yet possible during the Haiti coup.

[Indenturedebtor]

6. Please reserve judgement until we hear more guys n/t

[formercia]

7. There might be a simpler explanation.

Military aircraft usually don't purchase fuel at a civilian airport if there is a military airfield where they can refuel.

[EFerrari]

22. That makes sense. But, wouldn't you show up with a full tank

for an op like this one?

[formercia]

24. I considered that too

The other thought was that they dropped off the snatch team after they kidnapped Zelaya. I don't know how many people they initially had aboard the aircraft but with a full load of fuel, it might have been overweight. Once they dropped off the team, the aircraft could be topped off for the trip to Costa Rica.

[Mudoria]

8. The operative sentence...

"although she offered no evidence that American personnel at the base interacted with the Honduran military officials on the plane or that they even knew Zelaya was there."

She could just as well have said there were garbage collectors on the base so therefore they must have been complicit with the Honduran military...

[Peace Patriot]

9. The Pentagon does not relinquish command and control of US troops to the Honduran military.

In fact, the Pentagon owns the Honduran military, through US taxpayer financial support and training of Honduran officers at the "School of the Americas. After AP twice undercuts Valle's allegation by saying she presented no evidence (how is she supposed to get the evidence when the Pentagon and the US "Southern Command" are not talking, and the US embassy don't know nothin bout no steeking badges? From the coupsters? From their Honduran military enforcers?), the article states the following:

"U.S. Air Force personnel are responsible for maintaining the airfield and share air traffic control duties with Honduran authorities, according to the Joint Task Force-Bravo Web site."

Now, how do you suppose that works, hm? The Honduran military takes over air traffic control duties on exclusive shifts, while US commanders retire to their quonset huts to watch "American Idol," oblivious to who and what are landing at their Southern Command airport?

Well, maybe that's how the cocaine shipments get through--with a wink and a nod, while US military commanders are otherwise occupied. I'll grant that. But for the Honduran military to conceal the re-fueling of their kidnapped president's plane from US "garbage collectors"--as you call them--is very, very unlikely.

Zelaya has probably known of Pentagon (or Southern Command) complicity in his kidnapping from early on--once he figured out where the plane had landed to re-fuel. (I read that they spirited him out of the country on a plane with blackened windows, but Zelaya is not stupid, and likely quickly figured it out, or found out when the plane landed in Costa Rica). The question that this article raises is why is a Zelaya spokesperson saying it now. My guess: Zelaya is fed up with Obama/Clinton's two-faced, hypocritical policy--opposing the coup in public, and facilitating the coup's increasing grip on power prior to the November elections, behind the scenes--and decided to call them on it.

I don't know if this is an anti-Obama insurrection within the Pentagon, the CIA and the State Department, by Bushwhack moles and/or Clinton--that is, I don't know if Obama is really in control of these entities on Latin American policy--or whether he is complicit with the coup. What I do know is this: The overthrow of the elected president in the US client state of Honduras cannot have occurred without someone's complicity at high levels in Washington DC. The US not only owns the Honduran military; it owns virtually the entire Honduran economy, and has been funneling multi-millions of dollars to rightwing groups in Honduras, through John McCain's US taxapayer-funded "International Republican Institute" (via USAID-NED), and through the Clinton controlled "Millennium Corporation" (whose payments to the Honduran elite we know have not been suspended--thanks to Al Giordano and NarcoNews). IF Obama truly opposes this coup, and IF he has full command and control of US foreign policy and the Pentagon, he could have stopped this coup before it happened, or in the early days. US embassy officials admitted that they knew about it before hand, and said that they "advised against it." That is absurd! Obama could have stopped it then, by making the consequences very clear. He could have stopped it at the airport, by ordering US commanders to hold the plane. And he could have stopped it in Costa Rica, by providing Zelaya with a USAF plane and flying him right back into Honduras with the demand that he be reinstated. And he could be stopping it now--by suspending all monetary support, freezing the coupsters bank accounts, freezing their official and their private travel visas to the US, and withdrawing both the US ambassador and the US military from Honduras. The coup would shrivel up and die. They cannot rule without US support.

Obama has done none of these things and we don't know why. It appears to me that John McCain is running our foreign policy in Latin America, as the operative for the Bushwhacks, possibly in tandem with Hillary Clinton (and all the Bushwhack ambassadors she has left in place in Latin America). Didn't we vote against these people? Didn't we choose "change we can believe in"? I believe we did--although neither I nor Barack Obama nor anybody else can prove it, so non-transparent is our vote counting system. I think we overwhelmingly approved "change we can believe in"--by an even greater margin than we know. Then how come we're looking a deja vu all over again, on so many fronts including Latin America?

[bvar22]

15. Nice summary and analysis.

:thumbsup:

[UTUSN]

10. UnReKKK back to +5. So ZELAYA denies his own U.S. support?!1 n/t

[Peace Patriot]

12. Rec back to +6. And I don't understand your comment. Please explain. nt

[UTUSN]

13. The OBAMA administration has totally supported him & called it a coup.

What's not to understand?!1 And the Huguito Squad's Recs or UnReKKKs will always hold sway, we know THAT--either to propagate Huiguito (& cohorts) items or surpress anti-Huguito items!1

[bvar22]

16. Here is what you are refusing to acknowlege:

copied from Peace Patriot, Post 16

"And he could be stopping it now--by suspending all monetary support, freezing the coupsters bank accounts, freezing their official and their private travel visas to the US, and withdrawing both the US ambassador and the US military from Honduras. The coup would shrivel up and die. They cannot rule without US support."

[Peace Patriot]

18. "Huguito Squad's Recs or UnReKKKs will always hold sway...".

This is the first "anti-unRec" I've ever done. And I did it because you admitted to punitive un-Reccing. I've done a lot of Reccing, whenever I see an OP that I think is informative. But I ignore the "unRec" function. I don't like it because it denies us the information of how many have Recced or un-Recced the OP. If it says "0" that could mean 10 Recs and 10 unRec's (a controversial topic), or if it says "1" Rec, that could mean 11 Rec's with 10 dissents. This is maybe not very important information, but interesting, as to the pro and con feeling on a certain topic.

As for "Huguito Squad's Recs or UnReKKKs will always hold sway...". Don't give up! You've got the entire corpo/fascist press on your side, in demonizing and making a bogeyman out of "Huigito." You've got the CIA, the Pentagon and most of the US government on your side. You've got Donald Rumsfeld on your side, who wants "us" to use the 'internets' to win the argument against social justice and local control of the oil in Latin America (Washington Post, 12/1/07), and, if that doesn't work, he wants the US to take "swift action" in support of our "friends and allies" in Latin America--and we know what that means.

How can you lose with such allies? Just keep plunking away at that un-Rec button, and soon you'll have lots of brainwashed buddies there with you, trying your best to dis other peoples' informative posts.

I just hope you don't have any friends or relatives in the US military who are going to be the "cannon fodder" for another corporate resource war. And I hope your children's children are okay with paying for it. Me, I'm not okay with either thing, nor with the permanent alienation that is going to occur between the northern and southern halves of our hemisphere, as the result of global corporate predator and war profiteer-designed US policy. I had hoped that we were going to have a new Latin American policy of respect, peace and cooperation, like Obama said. Instead, we're establishing seven new US military bases in Colombia, and larding all the fascists in Colombia, Mexico and Peru with billions and billions of dollars that we don't have, in military aid. Some peace.

As for respect and cooperation, the US gives those lavishly to the rich and the murderous, and not to the majority poor who have worked so hard to put Latin America on a better path--on civil rights, on democratic institutions, on social justice, on good government and on the sovereignty of their countries. They get kicked in the teeth by US policy, time and again. I just hope that they don't take it this time, and are able to stick together and peacefully overcome US corporate and war profiteer designs. They have the chance for a great future, with a powerhouse Latin American "common market," if they stick together, which they show a lot of signs of being able to do. US hostility to Latin American regional control, prosperity, democracy and unity are beyond stupid. They are suicidal--signs and omens of a decrepit empire that can only keep its clutches in other countries by coercion and bloodshed. Sad for us, really. We are a better people than this. Unfortunately, our democracy is just about kaput, and we have absolutely nothing to say about it. We'll be lucky if we even get insurance-monster-run health care.

[Peace Patriot]

20. One more thing. Obama has NOT designated this coup as a coup,

in the formal language and findings necessary to mandated sanctions. Thus, John McCain, and Hillary Clinton, and others, are free to keep funneling multi-millions of US tax dollars to the coup regime. This is what Zelaya and numerous other leaders--on both left and right--have called for--formal designation as a coup--and it has NOT been done.

But say Obama does it tomorrow. And this brings the coup regime to the table. What is this likely to mean after 45 days of the coup entrenching itself in Honduras and arresting more than a thousand political activists, and killing some, and declaring martial law to inhibit public debate, and conducting numerous acts of intimidation, including using live ammunition on peaceful protesters? It means that it is very unlikely that Honduras can hold a free and fair election in the near future. How can leftist candidates organize and mount political campaigns in these circumstances? Zelaya is termed out. He can't run. They have to find another presidential candidate, in addition to all their other handicaps. It is now only two and a half months until the scheduled November election. The Arias accord includes moving the election up--making it sooner. But even if that provision is dropped, how can the left muster forces, money and organization in time for a November election--especially with John McCain pouring millions of dollars into rightwing groups, and Clinton pouring millions into the coffers of rightwing businesses (through the "Millenium Corporation")--and god knows what other US taxpayer or private money sources are lining the pockets of rightwing politicians?

To get off the "hot seat" of international criticism, Obama/Clinton might well officially declare it a "coup," with the hidden motive of the rightwing 'winning' the elections after a couple of months of severe political repression--with no mitigation of those circumstances. I doubt that there is any self-respecting international election monitoring group who would participate in this. They require advance notice, and months and sometimes years of preparation. They don't just drop in on election day. The coup hasn't even allowed the OAS to set foot in the country--let alone prep for election monitoring. Unless extensive measures are taken to ensure the complete non-intimidation of Honduran voters, and to provide the opportunity for leftist groups to seriously organize and mount campaigns, any such election will be a farce. And many South American leaders are already talking about refusing to recognize the results of an unfair election.

Obama should have formally designated this a coup on Day 1--when the Honduran military stopped at a US-run military airport in Honduras to re-fuel the plane carrying the kidnapped president. Or Day 2. Or Day 3. 45 days later, and no coup designation. What can we make of this, except hidden motives and hypocrisy? --which is the conclusion that most Latin American leaders are coming to.

[Judi Lynn]

21. If an election in November can't be organized and monitored correctly,

the coup masters will simply stay on indefinitely, it would seem. They refuse to allow the elected President back, and honest elections are impossible.

They were able to cancel all his actions for the last half of this year, prevent realization of his remaining plans for progressive change for the people.

One reason the Congress was able to vote so easily for Zelaya's removal is that Congressmen who supported Zelaya were detained outside the building the day they would have voted against his removal, and they were taken away. One of the Democrat Unification party members, Cesar Ham left immediately and went into hiding when it appeared they were after him. He has been the anticipated Presidential candidate from the Democratic Unification Party, and he has been driven to seek sanctuary or be killed. Many people feared he had been assassinated immediately after the coup.

THIS is how they have stiffled all opinion other than their own. Force. Violence. Torture. Murder. We are, as you indicate, STILL sneaking money from the U.S. taxpayers into Honduras to the coup regime under the table, through our right-wing's machinations, all done with Hilary Clinton's awareness, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Wilms]

25. "The OBAMA administration has totally supported him"?? Really?

Should I email Hillary, or will you?

[bvar22]

14. Canceling your UnReKKK.

Now at +8

If the US does NOT quickly change its Foreign Policy in Central and South America, we will LOSE an entire continent.

We should immediately discontinue our support for the Right Wing "Police State" governments (Colombia, Honduras coupsters), and welcome the emerging populist democracies with open arms and support,
not just on democratic principles, but our adversarial position toward these democracies is closing the door on emerging markets, and driving them into the hands of Russia and China.

The reforms sweeping across South & Central America have exceeded critical mass.
We are standing on the wrong side, and WILL lose the entire continent unless we change our policy.

[Judi Lynn]

17. Obama Administration Should Demand an End to Coup Regime's Killings in Honduras

Obama Administration Should Demand an End to Coup Regime's Killings in Honduras, CEPR Co-Director Urges

WASHINGTON - August 13 - The Obama administration has an obligation to demand that the de facto regime in Honduras stop ongoing political killings and other human rights abuses, Center for Economic and Policy Research Co-Director Mark Weisbrot said today. Weisbrot noted that human rights observers and international media have documented the killings of at least ten people - mostly of supporters of ousted president Manuel Zelaya, and all apparently politically motivated - since the coup d'etat occurred on June 28.

"The Obama administration is turning a blind eye to the violent repression the coup regime is carrying out against the Honduran people," Weisbrot said. "It could very quickly put a stop to these killings by freezing the assets of the regime leaders and their backers among the Honduran elite."

On July 15, a well-respected human rights organization in Honduras, the Honduran Committee for the Relatives of the Disappeared Detainees (COFADEH), released a report documenting the murders of three individuals:

•19-year-old Isis Obed Murillo Mencias, who died from a bullet wound to the head during a protest at the Toncontin International Airport on Sunday July 5.
•Journalist Gabriel Fino Noriega, who was shot seven times after leaving Radio Estelar on July 3.
•Caso Ramon Garcia, a member of the leftist Democratic Unification (UD) party, who was pulled off a bus and killed by unknown assailants.

On July 23, an International Observation Mission made up of 15 human rights workers from Latin America and Europe representing 13 different countries presented their preliminary report on the human rights situation in Honduras. In addition to the three cases previously documented by COFADEH, the Mission documented three more murders:

•Roger Ivan Bados, a UD party member and part of the Popular Bloc, a grassroots organization opposed to the coup, was forcibly removed from his home and killed on July 11.
•Vicky Hernandez Castillo, a member of the LGBT community was found dead on June 29 with a bullet wound in the eye and marks of strangulation.
•On July 3 an unknown individual was found dead in the "La Montanita" district of Tegucigalpa, an area previously used as a "clandestine cemetery for extra-judicial executions during the 80's". The unknown individual was wearing a "Cuarta Urna" t-shirt, referring to the popular survey that was to be carried out on Sunday, June 28.

Since these reports have come out there have been at least four more extra-judicial killings reported in the media:

•Pedro Magdiel Muñoz Salvador, a 23-year-old construction worker from Tegucigalpa who had traveled to the Honduran-Nicaraguan border, was found stabbed to death in a highly-visible field near the border on July 25.
•Roger Abraham Vallejo, a teacher from Tegucigalpa was shot in the head and critically wounded during an anti-coup demonstration on July 30. Two days later he was pronounced dead.
•Martin Florencio Rivera, another teacher, was stabbed to death on his way home from Vallejo's wake on August 1.
•On August 2, Pedro Pablo Hernández was shot by the Honduran military while driving after reportedly not responding to a signal to stop at a military checkpoint.

The reports document other human rights abuses carried out by the regime, including thousands who have been detained, and hundreds wounded.

http://www.ww4report.com/node/7697

[Judi Lynn]

19. Official response: U.S. military denies role in Honduras coup flight

U.S. military denies role in Honduras coup flight
Updated 4m ago

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (AP) — The U.S. military said Saturday its troops in Honduras did not know of and played no role in a flight that took ousted President Manuel Zelaya to exile during a military coup.
Zelaya says the Honduran military plane that flew him to Costa Rica on June 28 stopped to refuel at Soto Cano, a Honduran air base that is home to 600 U.S. soldiers, sailors and airmen engaged in counter-narcotics operations and other missions in Central America.

U.S. forces at Soto Cano "were not involved in the flight that carried President Zelaya to Costa Rica on June 28," Southern Command spokesman Robert Appin said in an e-mail to the Associated Press. The American troops "had no knowledge or part in the decisions made for the plane to land, refuel and take off."

Appin said the U.S. troops at Soto Cano have stopped conducting exercises with the Honduran military since the coup.

More:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-08-16-honduras-military_N.htm

[Peace Patriot]

26. I find it impossible to believe that the US commanders at Soto Cano had no knowledge

that the Honduran military was landing a plane with blackened windows, carrying their kidnapped commander in chief. Re-fueling takes time. US personnel are involved in air traffic control. If the US commander and officers didn't know, they should be demoted. This is a "Southern Command" post. One of their jobs is keeping track of, and interdicting, questionable aircraft. They are in charge, believe me. They knew. "Southern Command spokesman" Robert Appin specifically states "American troops," according to AP. He may be playing word games--"troops" as opposed to commander and officers. Or he may be outright lying. I do not believe that this could happen without the knowledge and complicity of the Pentagon and/or the commander and officers at the base. The only scenario in which they may not be complicit is if the CIA tricked them. Perhaps they thought they were winking at a CIA drug flight?

They furthermore did not come to Zelaya's assistance in returning to Honduras--neither immediately nor later. Why wasn't Zelaya's plane escorted by the USAF a couple of weeks ago, when the Honduran military blockaded the civilian airport and would not let Zelaya's plane land? Why didn't they invite Zelaya to land at Soto Cano?

They're just sitting on their hands, while the president's house is shot up and he's flown at gunpoint to Soto Cano? Give me a break.

[AlphaCentauri]

23. Zelaya should return to Honduras using the US air base

he should not be kicked out from there, he's a Honduran citizen.

[roody]

27. These countries are small.

Why would they need to refuel for a short flight to San Jose? I hope to learn the real story.

[Judi Lynn]

28. You're right: probably not more than 300 nautical miles from Tegu to Costa Rica.

http://www.retiredexpat.com.nyud.net:8090/retire-expat-overseas-retirement-files/map-central-america.gif

They could have almost taken him there easily on a bike.

http://www.genrecookshop.com.nyud.net:8090/tri-bike1b.jpg