US Says Aristide Exit a Lesson for Failed Leaders

[eablair3]

US Says Aristide Exit a Lesson for Failed Leaders

2 hours, 44 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Saul Hudson

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Thursday rejected pressure for an investigation into whether it pushed former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to resign and said it would not prop up "failed" elected leaders

After days of criticism that Aristide was ousted in a U.S.-assisted coup, the Bush administration's new defense of his "rescue" stoked fears its Haiti policy set a precedent for other leftists in Latin America, such as Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said that even if the United States "recognized a leader had been elected," he could not rely on U.S. support against an armed revolt if America considered he had misgoverned.

"We can't be called upon, expected or required to intervene every time there is violence against a failed leader," Boucher told reporters. "We can't spend our time running around the world and the hemisphere saving people who botched their chance at leadership."

"I do not think that's something the American government and the American people want, nor do I think it's ultimately good for democracy in the hemisphere," he said.

The new U.S. defense shifted from denying it forced Aristide out to explaining why the administration allowed him to fall as rebels were closing in on the capital.

snip

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20040304/wl_nm/haiti_usa_dc

___________

you just got love this. If they consider the leader to have "failed" then they will fly him out of the country after applying threats and heavy duress.

And, prior to doing that, they will likely finance, train, and arm opposition criminals and thugs to attack and terrorize the citizens of leader's country that they considered to have "failed."

Incredible.

[yorgatron]

1. i consider * as "failed"

do we send him back to TX or CT though?

[stepnw1f]

2. Maine

[Say_What]

15. Folks from Kennebunkport turned out this year in record number to say

they were gonna vote the miserable little pr*ck out. One guy said he can hardly wait to hear the debate between Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War vet, and AWOL-Boy Dubya. ;)

[leesa]

27. I want him in jail or evn better, I want him to pay the maximum penalty

for treason. What is it now?

[Sugarbleus]

39. I was just daydreaming about

having the entire pentagon, the justice dept., the state dept., the defense dept., and the entire white house rounded up onto a massive airlift, sent to Iraq, then parachuted off into downtown Baghdad!
Did I leave any agency or person out?
Oh, and have live film crews present as we watch the "event".

Don't get mad, get even. :)

[kitkatrose]

45. We can put it on TV as Survivor: Iraq. :) n/t

[Sugarbleus]

46. Good Idea! LOL LOL

[Sugarbleus]

37. I was gonna say the same thing lol

Bush failed, can we send him away?

[acmavm]

3. I just have to sit here and shake my head as I wonder who the hell

these bastards really think they are. So, they have the power of life and death over any and everyone? So, they can destabilize any country that they want and depose it's leader, even if, unlike our 'pResident', he was legally and clearly elected?

I don't understand any of this. And I don't understand why other nations have been so quiet about this. There's the occasional news story, but no real ruckus.

Amazing, simply amazing.

[Sugarbleus]

38. The "quiet" from elsewhere worldwide is probably summed up in

one word: PAYOLA

Everyone is on the US payroll these days!

[Just Me]

4. Uh, huh,...and what will visit the failed leadership of the US,...

,...ahem,...I sometimes wonder whether the vile spewed by this machine is a foreshadowing of the vile which will bury the dark disease from which they suffer.

[Beetwasher]

5. One Mans Terrorist Is Another Mans Freedom Fighter

and vice versa and whatnot.

Apparently these assholes aren't as black and white and they're cracked up to be...Or maybe they're just on crack?

[Dirk39]

6. "To intervene every time there is violence against a failed leader" ?

even if the United States "recognized a leader had been elected" ???

Noone intervened more in Haiti than the U.S.A. to let Aristide "fail". Then they kidnapp him. Then this type of comment?

Mr. Boucher, isn't there some violence against a not-so-elected government in a not-so-democratic country called Iraq?

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[ithacan]

7. "saving people who botched their chance at leadership.

Hmmm. this sounds like Bush.

Does it mean the State Department is abandoning him?

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Does that mean we can expect Bush to do the exiled-leader walk

someday? One can hope.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

34. ...the Central African Republic Amble-Off Into the Sunset...

...if only...maybe if I click my heels three times and wish real hard...

[MoonAndSun]

9. Annd where is our Democratic leadership, our elder statesmen

who need to come out and condemn this "new" policy of this mis-administration? We need a press conference with members of the CBC and with Dschle, Kennedy, etc and condemn bush* asap.

And what about the Fourth Estate? Where are the newspaper editorials that should also be condemning this action? Our "liberal media" journalists should be jumping on this, too.

I hope that tomorrow we will start hearing the voices of dissent against what the bush* admin has done.

[IndianaGreen]

10. "Failed leaders"? That's the same thing the US said about Chavez

after the coup, but before the Venezuelan people (not the elites) rose in anger and toppled the coup plotters.

[gate of the sun]

11. disgusting, outrageous

well this sounds like Imperialism to me and I guess the world doesn't even care. What have we become? They used to do this stuff in secret but now they don't even care. It looks as though Venezuela will be next. Gosh, bush is starting to look more and more like hitler.

[markus]

12. It's not imperialism, its terrorism

and Bush is the Osama bin Laden of corporate terrorism.

The world won't be safe until they're all being frog walked off the plane at Guantanamo, stripped of their citizenship and on enroute to the Hague.

[gate of the sun]

22. well I agree with that

n/t

[Just Me]

17. What Have We Become?

I proposed that question a year ago,...I received a virile reaction. American people want to believe they are "good" without the investment of being "good". Sadly, it will take the courage of someone, anyone to present the whole truth, exposing all closets, to shock the American people out of the "illusions" which have actually disempowered them,...all these years.

But,...what brave soul will do that bidding? I am watching.

[gate of the sun]

20. I will be watching too

but sadly that may have to be us the American people. It doesn't look like anyone else is really up for it. Not anyone too significant anyway.

[Chicago Democrat]

13. A Crime by Criminals who need to be held to account.

:(

[KenLayedOff]

14. Bullcrap

Both Carter and Clinton tried to help Aristide get things under control. I refuse to accept that a Bush can come along and destroy all the work that Jimmy and Bill did to make life better for the people of Haiti. To hell with that noise.

[bvar22]

16. In the insane World of the NeoRepublicans...

...any democratically elected leader who rejects the WTO and refuses to give the country's resources to GlobalCorps will be the next Failed Leader.

We not only must rid the World of bush* and the cheap labor Republicans, but we MUST drive a stake through the heart of the Conservative Doctrine. This Conservative philosophy is every bit as EVIL as the Nazi Doctrine.

[earthside]

18. Be Careful ...

After reading this news item, all I can say to Bush and his henchmen is ... be careful what policies you support, you may get the same thing.

Under this train of logic, we, the people, are perfectly within our rights to forcibly remove this unelected, 'supremely' appoint "leader" from power since he is a clear failure. And Bush shouldn't expect the police or FBI or military to intervene when the people come throw him out of the Whte House on his kester.

Remember, the Declaration of Independence does say "that when ever any Form of Govrnment becomes destructive of the Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or ABOLISH it ..."

[Tinoire]

19. 3+3 = 4 / Richard Boucher: "we did not advocate his stepping down,"

<snip>

The White House and Pentagon dismissed allegations that Aristide was kidnapped by US forces eager for him to resign and flee into exile. The US State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said on Thursday "we did not advocate his stepping down," and that"Aristide departed voluntarily to spare his country further violence."

<snip>

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-03/05/content_1346929.htm

(excerpt)

The State Department said yesterday that the United States had "facilitated (Aristide's) safe departure from Haiti" and the US ambassador to Haiti, James Foley, said that after resigning, Aristide had requested and received US protection to get to the airport.

French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said Aristide's exile was the result of intense consultation and "perfect coordination" between Paris and Washington.

De Villepin said he had been in touch with Powell several times by telephone before the choice of the Central African Republic as Aristide's destination was decided.

<snip>

A senior western diplomat in Port-au-Prince said yesterday that Aristide's request for US assistance to leaving had come after he had signed his letter of resignation.

"The letter was presented to us already signed," the diplomat said, denying a French radio report that Aristide was coerced to leave.

<snip>

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/02/1078117402754.html



They can't even keep their lies straight.

[dax]

24. Noriega said in the hearing they would protect the other officials...

But not Aristide. US armed and funded the opposition, they invaded the country from Dominican Republic, terrorizing people all the way, released over 2000 criminals-many machete butchers from the death squads- who do you think was kissing Philippe in the square? They have played the world like a piano-they had a press shill ask the question -"was Aristide led a way in handcuffs" which was attributed to Maxine Waters-I HEARD HER say that that was not true, that "some who had seen him leave thought he had handcuffs." Then old Scotty takes the next question-"was Aristide kidnapped" and he said-I already answered that question -so calculated-then they move on to how to "help the Haiti people" (get their minds right and welcome rule by sweatshop lords, maybe some oldie but goodie Duvalieras-and the tried but true drug lords. In the Hearing it was pointed out that drug trafficking under Karzai (our man in Afghanistan) has increased to the highest it has EVER been but he is still there. Please write your congresspeople don't let this coup get swept away. Even the neg press Aristide gets is supicious to me- I was organizing in the old cointelpro days and the standard mo was to send someone into a group, usually two -to promote/provoke inspire illegal action. It was tough to peg for some people because everyone wanted to be so "inclusive" but there would be the 2nd there to shut down people catching on to the provocateur-they would be a smoother to convince others o he's not so bad whenever anyone talked about maybe we should get rid of this guy he seems to only want to break the law. The only reports I have heard in the negative about Aristide refer to gangs behaving exactly as the so-called opposition behaves-they have also reported that Aristide has jailed some of his own so-called "supporters" for committing illegal acts-I doubt he can control everyone who says they support him. The next guy who lynches a black or gay person could just say that he is a Bush supporter and then we can take him (Bush)OUT? sounds good to me(just a sick joke). What was NOT widely reported is that Aristide had embarked on an ambition road building program, raised the minimum wage, doubled the number of schools in the last year, demanded that the child servants be released to go to school (they send children to rich people in Haiti to work as servants for room and board), built a medical school, and was working with Cuba to train doctors and bring health care to many who have NEVER seen a health care provider of any kind. What a despot we really had to take him out-the frozen development money Aristide was bankrupting the country to pay the fees on- cost -in one estimate-as many as 200,000 LIVES-these are a people who watch their babies die from dehydration with diarrhea from bad water-but it was important for the US to send M-16's to the thugs and claim that the President brought himself down. This is flat out RACISM folks-US did not recognize Haiti for 100 years because they didn't want to have to sit across the table from a Black diplomat, maybe have to shake hands.And Heavens if our slaves got wind that Black people could have their own country and run it themselves-


The bottom line is US picks terrible leaders for other people-Noriega, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban to name the most recent bad picks), US has dumb intelligence when it comes to picking people to run other peoples lives.

[Tinoire]

30. We're on the same sheet of music

I worked PsyOps in the US miltary for many years and recognize the MO in my sleep. You are one astute person.

What makes this all even more pathetic is that these guys can't even keep their lies straight or take the time to properly cover up their tracks.

So glad you're here Dax!

[maggrwaggr]

21. by this administration's own logic

we are 100% justified in throwing them out on their ear.

Pick a country, Shrub. Find a country that will take you. Saudi Arabia perhaps?

[renegade000]

23. WHAT kind of logic is this?

this undermines the very principle of self-determining self-government. can't people throw their own elected leaders out of office throught the peaceful means of the democratic process?
and if worse comes to worse, overthrow their own corrupt leaders themselves?

if they ask for our help, we should be obliged to give it to them.
but who are we to give judgement on the success or failure of foreign leaders and proceed to remove them ourselves?

the sheer hubris is staggering...*sigh*

[TankLV]

25. Now that didn't take long, did it?!?!

Talk about arrogance!

It's amazing how they are giving justice and freedom loving peoples around the entire country and globe permission to do the very same thing to bunkerboy and his gang of thugs.

What's good for the goose...


Hint. Hint.

I hope the rest of the world is listening - very carefully!

[TankLV]

26. Let's see -

1) Loose the election but take office anyway. Check.

2) Oh, nevermind - you all know where I'm going with this.

Had more typed but accidentally deleted it all.

I'm sooo damn tired of all this crap.

[Room101]

28. "failed" elected leaders- O the Irony

:crazy:

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. In bushs'* case that would be........

Failed Unelected leader.

[Say_What]

29. As far as the Haitian consul general in New York is concerned, Mr Aristide

is still the country's legitimate president. AND he wants to be returned to Haiti. A couple of other threads just posted in LBN with this info. Makes me think that this is gonna get real messy for the Shrubs junta.

[Tinoire]

31. That's been my feeling from the start.

Haiti, a poor people of ragged slaves threw off the French in 1804 fighting cannons with machetes.

They spread democracy throughout the Western hemisphere which is why the US has hated Haiti so much ever since 1804.

May they spread it again.

[Say_What]

47. The witness from Barbados, Mr. Marville, gave some of Haiti's history

such as Haiti was the first black nation to win freedom 200 years ago and it took the US 100 years to recognize them as a free nation. They've helped us over the years as well and more than once. During WWII, because the US couldn't get rubber from the Pacific region, they suggested Haiti get rid of her trees and plant rubber trees. Apparently there was a man in Haiti who said it would never work but they did it anyway and it destroyed their island. Erosion bigtime. There's a website I ran into the other day--don't know if you have this or not but it's a wealth of information. http://www.weblog.ro/soj/2004/03/03#6762

Here's a clip:

What is the Group of 184?

Well the first thing to understand is it is led by Andre Apaid:

Andre Apaid is the owner of 15 factories in Haiti. He has been accused of tax evasion, operating sweatshops and being a President Aristide hater. The so-called peaceful protests led by Andre Apaid and his Group of 184 are responsible for defying the rule of law as it relates to parade routes, notification of protest actions and other laws that are normally respected in any democratic society. The protests he organizes have become increasingly violent. Police officers are confronted, property is damaged and roads are blocked.

It is my belief that Andre Apaid is attempting to instigate a bloodbath in Haiti and then blame the government for the resulting disaster in the belief that the United States will aid the so-called protestors against President Aristide and his government. Andre Apaid refuses to negotiate despite the fact that the State Department, the Organization of American States and many other organizations are now supporting a proposal put forth by CARICOM.

The 184, as far as I can tell, refers to the number of wealthy business owners who are in this group. Here's a chilling report from February 16, 2004:

http://www.weblog.ro/soj/2004/03/03#6762

[smirkymonkey]

32. You mean , failed leaders like *??

Ooops, no can't be, it says they have to be "elected" leaders.

[FormerOstrich]

33. Where are the checks and balances???

How can this administration decide and implement new policy that is such a radical departure from our previous (stated) policies?

In this policy how do they judge? What is the barometer? What are the parameters? wtf?

How can they go from deny to it is our policy now. wtf? How can the sing the "freedom loving people" song, yet openly admit they do not respect democracy?

How can they shrug this off as only "not protecting", when in fact the rebels murdered how many on the march through the country?

So they are indicating they think bloody revolts are okay as long as a leader made mistakes??

I say again: wtf!!??!!

:wtf:

:kick:

[Jack Rabbit]

35. That will be a sight to see . . .

The Frat Boy, handcuffed, booted on to a jet and flown to nation willing to take him.

Saudi Arabia, perhaps?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

36. An elephant would envy the size of these people's balls

[Vladimir]

40. Judge not

lest ye be judged yourself. Except if you have a nuke or 2000. In which case, pop that heat baby!

V

[salin]

42. Warning to all... do not displease us... or we will cut off

money to your country and stir civil discontent, exacerbate existing problems, and then come in and "save" your country from you.

This is disturbing in that how many internationals will read together with the "bush doctrine" of preemption, already proven to be used based on trumped up/manufactured "evidence", and realize that this administration can become capricious and is ruthless enough to either facilitate the conditions (such as in Haiti), or manufacture the evidence, to justify actions to oust governments.

The blinded neocons, drunk on their ideology, are unable to see that creating ongoing world instability does not necessarily leave the US dominant, it saps our economic, military, intelligence and diplomatic resources, leaves us less and less credible, and makes it more and more likely that over time new alliances will emerge to attempt to counterbalance the "sole superpower" that is misusing its power. That the neocons (almost all former coldwarrior soviet haters) are turning a blind eye to the actions of former high ranking (soviet) KGB man Putin, are actually relying on CHINA to play a major role in resolving the North Korea crisis, demonstrates that they are short-sighted and foolish. Watching China and Russia work together to try to stave off our adventures in Iraq, should have sent them warning flags that a historic, geopolitical realignment... against the US as the potential 'menace'... was very possibly in its earliest stages.

Rather than begin to recognize and strategize against such a huge threat ... the neocons continue to escalate and demonstrate their desire to impose their will upon countries regarding toppling governments.. and even if some international observers agree with the rationale for one or two of the four attempted overthrows, the string of these (four in three years), makes it hard to believe all is done out of noble intentions of "spreading democracy."

They are playing with dynamite, but think that they are playing with silly putty.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Here's an unsavory story from Florida: a paramilitary fiend struck it rich

Posted on Thu, Mar. 04, 2004




DISTRICT COURT


Slain Haitian's wife seeks winnings

The widow of a Haitian massacre victim goes to court to keep a deported colonel's Lotto winnings in the United States.

BY LARRY LEBOWITZ

[e-mail]


The widow of a Haitian man killed in a 1994 paramilitary slaughter asked a Miami federal judge Wednesday to prevent a former colonel accused of human-rights abuses from moving his Florida Lottery winnings back to the island.

Carl Dorélien had fled the island in 1996 and settled in Port St. Lucie, where he later won a half-share of a $6.4 million Lotto jackpot. In 2000, a Haitian court convicted him in absentia of supervising a rampaging squad that massacred 26 unarmed men, women and children in the town of Raboteau.
(snip)

(snip) Dorélien, a one-time colonel in the Haitian army, was part of the junta that overthrew President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in 1991. He fled the island shortly after the Raboteau massacre.

Amid the recent chaos in Haiti, human-rights advocates say it is unclear whether Dorélien is still in custody. Since Aristide fled the country on Sunday, there have been widespread reports that the rebels -- which include some of Dorélien's paramilitary friends -- had released thousands of prisoners.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/8100983.htm

[Nihil]

44. Corporate management techniques

"We promoted you because we believed you could do it.
You had your chance to prove yourself. You've failed. You're fired"

This is a lesson that Mr.Blair should take heed of.

(Other similarities include paying large amounts to self and buddies
even though laying off workers, ensuring that the PR message keeps the
stock high out on the market and taking over any small-fry that has
interesting assets.)

Nihil